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AES-NYC: API THE BOX® Project Recording and Mixing Console
Old 24th October 2013
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gravyface View Post
Would like to know/understand a bit more about the API's signal path and how much of it is shared with the 1608. Manual mentions the 4 channels with pres/EQ as being the same as the 1608, but nothing about the summing channels.
Agreed..

would like to know more - schematics ?
Old 24th October 2013
  #182
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The name is magically idiotic.
Yet, I know those guys.
They won't change the name. It is intentionally corny to not overshadow the 1608 in ANY way.
API knows marketing very well.

Still, it is a bummer overall as people have tone of 500 modules.. why not make it more configurable.

Personally, I am collecting as many 10 series BAE units as I can to fill the eventual new BCM10 - hopefully 12 - I am praying for in the future!!

Mark Loughman,
BCM12
Direct Outs
4+ Auxes
Decent master section..

Please!!
Old 24th October 2013
  #183
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The Wunder 12 channel / 8 aux is an option if your looking for this 10 series type of set up. It has three different options on the centre section with 1272's / Api's and Wunder to choose between.
Old 24th October 2013
  #184
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can i load my BAE 10 series units in it?
6 - 1028's
2 - 1084's
Old 24th October 2013
  #185
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DR Music's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbooth View Post
didn't make it to AES this year, but this new Purple Audio 500 series based console looks wicked: MFtwenty5 1-RU Mixer & Rack System
would be more of a fully functioning console based around 500 series racks and gear and i would hope less $$$ than the API summing console BOX dealy. seems much more customizable and in the end versatile than BOX. drool-worthy.
Thanks for the info! Wow Amazing I am thinking (the purple) is the way to go for me.
Old 24th October 2013
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty James View Post
can i load my BAE 10 series units in it?
6 - 1028's
2 - 1084's
Yes - they load..
Old 24th October 2013
  #187
500 series nutjob
 
pan60's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sfere recording View Post
random questioning here.....why isn't anyone on to the Ocean Audio Ark? It's close to the same pricing but can be configured into anything you want. I don't get it....I'm not fanboi'ing....I'm looking at the practicality of the Box and i'm just trying to really get my head around how the Ark is being overlooked by most everyone here. To me it's a way superior product. Am I missing something here? help me out....explain. I mean a pricing structure in the teens with the Api Box just to sum and a few slots to keep you happy? That's just nuts. I'd rather pay the teens..still be able to sum with the Ark being EMPTY and when money allows fill that SOB with the hottest pre's and eq's my money can buy at the time and make my own personal console! I don't get it....


thanks
DF
The Ocean Audio Ark looks cool ( and I am a 500 format freak, so very cool ), and I am sure will be just what many want but, it is a LOT more money, not even close.
It is about $20,000.00 street and then you need to load it.
The Ocean Audio Ark will be double the money.

In the end it still comes down to what you need.
The BOX will be exactly what a lot of people out there are looking for.
Old 25th October 2013
  #188
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Lipps's Avatar
 

So if the msrp is $18k, what's the street price?
Old 25th October 2013
  #189
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ProducerBoy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lipps View Post
So if the msrp is $18k, what's the street price?
$17,995 @ Vintage King.
Old 26th October 2013
  #190
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drew's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProducerBoy View Post
$17,995 @ Vintage King.
That's just what's being advertised. No one should ever pay list/retail if they have a good relationship with their dealer.
Old 1st November 2013
  #191
I wrote a quite huge review yet. And simply erased and decided not to post what I think about this.
Old 1st November 2013
  #192
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I usually don't care too much about a look of a logo, but damn that Box thing is really hard to get past.
Old 1st November 2013
  #193
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Jamz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jindrich View Post
I just glanced though the manual, which is in PDF for everyone to download.

From the diagram flow I see the 16ch tape return chs can be used during tracking quite effectively:

plug external mic pres (+comp/eq) to the 16 ch inputs on DB25. Now use the insert sends to send that signal to the DAW for recording. The signal continues uninterrupted into the console, and you can use the cue/aux sends for foldbacks, and the faders for monitoring in the CR, all in the anlaog domain and no latency.

Therefore, you have 4 recording_equipped chs, plus 16 more chs to use with external preamps.
If you have a 16ch ADA like say an AVID 16x16, I'd use the first 4+another 12 for a total of 16 inputs to tape, and the remaining 4chs to have a return from PT, like for overdubs, St mix+Clicktrak.

In a glance, 16chs to tape + 4 chs for returns from PT, all to the faders and with cue+auxes for headphone foldback.

You could even patch the 16 DAs to the 16 insert returns on the chs, and instantly have the DAW to the faders+auxes, just by pressing the INS RT switch.

The above ONLY for TRACKING.

(oddly enough, the manual doesn't mention this method at all. It's as if it were only designed to track 4 chs at once. But you can do more than that as I've just explained)

For MIXING, ideally you'd have (permantly) the 16 DAs on a normalised patchbay, direct to the 16ch line inputs (DB25) so you're always ready to mix or recall mixes, and patch as I explained above only when tracking.


No as simple as in a traditional in-line console but 100% doable.
I read this and it sparked my interest.
Question....
If I have several api 512s and eqs in a rack(s)...is there any advantage running them through the Box's 16 channel summing section to my DAW?
Old 1st November 2013
  #194
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Rob King's Avatar
I'm a big API fan and at first wasn't really into this product but then after reading about it the past couple weeks, it seems like a very good product for its intended user. I also agree that the name is just horrible and in a weird way sounds cheap. The layout is great for the home recordist doing ITB stuff with small recording needs (1 or 2 tracks at a time). I know the majority of my recording time is spent at under 4 tracks unless you are doing Drums or Orchestral stuff.

For me I needed up to 8 tracks of recording path with tons of options so I built my own API mixer.. Minus the GML, 5500 and elaborate hand crafted case. Mine came in at under $21K for 8 channels loaded with Pre, EQ, Comp and Legacy Line Driver.

My Custom API Sidecar 8x2x2 Steampunk Recording Mixer

Old 2nd November 2013
  #195
500 series nutjob
 
pan60's Avatar
 

Very nice set up Rob!
Old 7th November 2013
  #196
Gear Maniac
 
WiZKiD's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jindrich View Post
I just glanced though the manual, which is in PDF for everyone to download.

From the diagram flow I see the 16ch tape return chs can be used during tracking quite effectively:

plug external mic pres (+comp/eq) to the 16 ch inputs on DB25. Now use the insert sends to send that signal to the DAW for recording. The signal continues uninterrupted into the console, and you can use the cue/aux sends for foldbacks, and the faders for monitoring in the CR, all in the anlaog domain and no latency.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pan60 View Post
But it is not designed for that application.
But in the end the BOX looks to me to be designed for mixing out of the BOX.
I do not see wiring a patch bay up so you could use other outboard pres and track with a number of mics as a work around either.
If you need to be tracking a lot, why not just get a 1608.
This thing would be rockin sweet next to my four buss console.


Yes, they advertise this so hard as a summing section. You wouldn't need to wire up a patchbay, just get a switchcraft DB25 patchbay and run them right off the summing section. I would half normal that summing section to my pro tools inputs, lol. A 1608 breaks the bank, and all you have is API. I'd rather get a couple 1073's, a Red 1, and some tube pres & comps plus a box for half the price of a 1608.

This section is really useful if you patch a channel in between Preamp and Compressor and use the fader to gain stage masaging the tubes/transformers compressor to shape all sorts of tones like the olden days. It could also be useful for gain staging into pro tools. If the output of a piece of gear has a good transformer or tube, a fader on the way into PT keeps tones intact and levels real nice.

I do this when recording vocals sometimes, this thing is worth it's weight in gold to me for that and the analog cue mix. Although, at this point my clientele expect the cue mix to have effects and the works so I'm lost without TDM either way...
Old 8th November 2013
  #197
500 series nutjob
 
pan60's Avatar
 

LOL
i still wire and solder patch bays; )
But I should maybe have been more clean, about anyone doing much of anything needs a patch bay, and I do not view have a patch bay as a workaround, but instead just part of having my gear ready to easily use.
Most of us have crap loads of pres already so I think this is a sweet little unit.
I know guys that have consoles and are just coming in at line level with outboard pres already and using the console for mixing and or summing, so I guess a don't get the few negative grumblers floating about?
Old 8th November 2013
  #198
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Did anyone attend the VKLA demo this week ?
Old 8th November 2013
  #199
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DR Music's Avatar
Hope it's discontinued soon, so I can buy at half $..
Old 10th November 2013
  #200
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I feel the same way. Love it but can't afford $15k. Although I'm sure it's worth it.
Old 26th November 2013
  #201
Gear Addict
 
superjimmer's Avatar
edit: upon further research I have to say I was wrong. I think the design of the box has a few ingenious features - one of which is the unity gain switch so you *can* bypass the faders and sum at fixed gain like a Dangerous 2-bus etc. I still think the 500 series modules could have been integrated on a larger scale but this unit actually has a lot of thought put into it. Also the fact that you can route the comps into the preamps going in was very smart.
Old 3rd December 2013
  #202
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foldback's Avatar
Getting in API BOX

I'm glad to see API do something for under $20k, is it for me? Well I'm already looking 10 years down the road when used "BOXS'" will be under $10k on ebay.

Meanwhile I think except for the price it's a very cool looking little console. We all can come up with modular ways to do these tasks but The BOX is a very tidy setup, no extra racks or patch-bays needed to get real faders on your tracks.

One market that Gearslutz never seem to think much about is Broadcast, here I see The BOX selling very well (provided it's industrial strength, no cutting corners on switches or fader quality). Also for big talent to have a nice unit in their play room, $18k is chump change to real rock stars, THEY'RE the ones who will buy this without pause. Seriously, this is like a fancy "stereo controller" for someone who is IN the music business, I can easily see music execs having this in their office so they can quickly get INSIDE the music. This little API combined with an Apollo and a new Mac Pro (coffee can) would still be a lot less than stars were paying for ProTools rigs just 10 years ago, a lot of people popped $30K for a pile of that stuff and it's virtually worthless hardware today. I bet the BOX will hold it's resale value like other API equipment, when you consider "total cost of ownership over the life of the hardware" API and other PRO brands don't cost as much as some may think, but you gotta have the resources to play in those fields in the first place.

I like that you can just plop this unit down, cable up some D-A and start mixing with high quality analog channels. You don't have to patch together a bunch of stuff to overdub vocals, guitars, keyboards, create some stems, bounce and monitor with extreme convenience and ultimate audio quality. I've been doing this very thing for over 5 years with my Neve 8816/8804 sidecar, it has direct outs on every fader and a little patch bay in a custom rack that makes it essentially into The BOX (except I've got an API VPR 10 position rack in there for preamps and comps :-).

I know I'd like to have one of these new API BOX' in our P-room just because it's so clean and easy to understand, that means we can educate the talent using it much quicker and get on to creating more content and drinking more excellent fresh ground coffee :-)

I see a great accessory market for someone to make a cool name plate to go over THE BOX logo, get a brass plate engraved with your studio name and stick it over the logo, instant fix!

Good luck and good music to all.

PS For Dr. Bill, I seem to remember about a year and a half ago (or more) API was making a big deal on their web site about delivering the 200th 1608 and the 10,000th 512 mic preamp.

100 consoles at $50k is 5-million in retail sales, double that and you're up to 10 million in gross retail sales spread over a few years, that's not a very high profit potential overall for sustaining a high tech company in the USA. Pro Audio is a niche business and building quality stuff takes labor and great parts. If this one is built out of the same stuff as the typical API product then it's certainly not over priced IMHO.
Old 3rd December 2013
  #203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anghello View Post
I wrote a quite huge review yet. And simply erased and decided not to post what I think about this.
so you actually had one to actually do a review?
Old 23rd December 2013
  #204
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Mind-Over-Midi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jindrich View Post
I just glanced though the manual, which is in PDF for everyone to download.

From the diagram flow I see the 16ch tape return chs can be used during tracking quite effectively:

plug external mic pres (+comp/eq) to the 16 ch inputs on DB25. Now use the insert sends to send that signal to the DAW for recording. The signal continues uninterrupted into the console, and you can use the cue/aux sends for foldbacks, and the faders for monitoring in the CR, all in the anlaog domain and no latency.

Therefore, you have 4 recording_equipped chs, plus 16 more chs to use with external preamps.
If you have a 16ch ADA like say an AVID 16x16, I'd use the first 4+another 12 for a total of 16 inputs to tape, and the remaining 4chs to have a return from PT, like for overdubs, St mix+Clicktrak.

In a glance, 16chs to tape + 4 chs for returns from PT, all to the faders and with cue+auxes for headphone foldback.

You could even patch the 16 DAs to the 16 insert returns on the chs, and instantly have the DAW to the faders+auxes, just by pressing the INS RT switch.

The above ONLY for TRACKING.

(oddly enough, the manual doesn't mention this method at all. It's as if it were only designed to track 4 chs at once. But you can do more than that as I've just explained)

For MIXING, ideally you'd have (permantly) the 16 DAs on a normalised patchbay, direct to the 16ch line inputs (DB25) so you're always ready to mix or recall mixes, and patch as I explained above only when tracking.


No as simple as in a traditional in-line console but 100% doable.

With the above jindrich quote in mind, this looks like it would be a really nice fit for those DIY'ers building all of those CAPI vp28's, vp26's, Love Childs and etc. It's not cheap but seams like a very nice way to tie all of the above together. In theory, if you build your own pre's and EQ's you can have a nice little 20ch API, with 20 mic pre's and Eq's for less than 30K. Not bad.

Add a SSL Sigma or Greiner Sum.mation for automation.......


Old 1st January 2014
  #205
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Gravity8058's Avatar
 

Question

-- hey Bill, ltns :-)

So, if I'm at mix, have my drums returned in chan 9-16, deselect the program button, and send to stereo Cue Mix via hitting all the Cue buttons (sending each of those tracks to from sends 3&4).

Could I use Aux sends 3&4 elsewhere (say from chan 1-8), NOT press the Cue button, thereby sending those tracks to Aux Buss 3&4 out (to be processed differently) simultaneously? This would be a way to (somewhat) get 6 aux sends at mix?? That would be reeeeeally cool.....????
Old 5th January 2014
  #206
500 series nutjob
 
pan60's Avatar
 

I have been wanting a 1608 but the more I study the BOX the more I am thinking it will do all I want?
But I do want a 1608, so on the fence.
Be a while before I buy anything so I guess I have time to put more thought into it.
Old 7th January 2014
  #207
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127Riot's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddageek View Post
In my mind it made the 8200 /7800 look like a great bargain on the used market!
Agreed, I have 24 channels of api 8200 summing, it sounds amazing, the best part about the 8200,7800,8200A,7600 is that you can build the system to your needs, most people on this thread are stating what they would and wouldn't want, and everyone's needs are different. I think the api 8200 system got discontinued because a lot of people didn't understand it, therefore api did not sell a ton of them. So they got yanked. The api 8200,7800,8200A is a steal on the used market. It's the closest you will get to mixing on a newer api console without buying an api console, I have done quite a few comparisons between the api 8200 summing set up and a vintage API 1604, the api 1604 always sounded warmer with more love butter. "That sound".

However, the api 8200 summing set up, has the punch, clarity, depth, and separation. Insert eq's on some channels and watch it come to life. Compared to an ITB mix it's night and day.

It's very much like the old Huntington 2520's vs the new api 2520's, the old ones have a smooth butter punch, and the new ones have faster bite and impact. Both are great.

It's a shame api discontinued the 8200/dsm summing series, they are really great. Especially if you track and mix like I do. Mixing mainly ITB using the DAW, automation /faders, running it through the api 8200's just makes it better, a lot better. I talk with some of the guys at API periodically they are all super nice and very helpful. I was told recently they still repair the 8200/DSM system as well as all products they ever released provided parts are available. I know some of the older hand wired eq switches are not available.

I'm sure the new api the BOX is great, and if it has all the functions your after its a great medium between the 1608 and the the other options. I'm sure it's the same circuitry as well. API uses the same circuitry in pretty much all their products, 2520/2510 opamps, 2503/2623 output transformers, etc... Personally before I drop $16, thousand on the box, I much rather spend a few thousand here and there to tailor a system to my exact needs. I would love to own a 1608, if I found one floating around unloaded for a good deal I would love to have it. I already have the api eq's to put in it.

The box is cool it's just not for me.
Old 7th January 2014
  #208
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string6theory's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 127Riot View Post
Agreed, I have 24 channels of api 8200 summing, it sounds amazing, the best part about the 8200,7800,8200A,7600 is that you can build the system to your needs, most people on this thread are stating what they would and wouldn't want, and everyone's needs are different. I think the api 8200 system got discontinued because a lot of people didn't understand it, therefore api did not sell a ton of them. So they got yanked. The api 8200,7800,8200A is a steal on the used market. It's the closest you will get to mixing on a newer api console without buying an api console, I have done quite a few comparisons between the api 8200 summing set up and a vintage API 1604, the api 1604 always sounded warmer with more love butter. "That sound".

However, the api 8200 summing set up, has the punch, clarity, depth, and separation. Insert eq's on some channels and watch it come to life. Compared to an ITB mix it's night and day.

It's very much like the old Huntington 2520's vs the new api 2520's, the old ones have a smooth butter punch, and the new ones have faster bite and impact. Both are great.

It's a shame api discontinued the 8200/dsm summing series, they are really great. Especially if you track and mix like I do. Mixing mainly ITB using the DAW, automation /faders, running it through the api 8200's just makes it better, a lot better. I talk with some of the guys at API periodically they are all super nice and very helpful. I was told recently they still repair the 8200/DSM system as well as all products they ever released provided parts are available. I know some of the older hand wired eq switches are not available.

I'm sure the new api the BOX is great, and if it has all the functions your after its a great medium between the 1608 and the the other options. I'm sure it's the same circuitry as well. API uses the same circuitry in pretty much all their products, 2520/2510 opamps, 2503/2623 output transformers, etc... Personally before I drop $16, thousand on the box, I much rather spend a few thousand here and there to tailor a system to my exact needs. I would love to own a 1608, if I found one floating around unloaded for a good deal I would love to have it. I already have the api eq's to put in it.

The box is cool it's just not for me.
Very well said and I entirely concur!

I was just musing over this very thing wrt the DSM systems and 8200A line mixers/sum bus... and the modular, customizable options it offers users, along with the stellar sound qualities/characteristics.

These were/are brilliant (concieved and executed) products for audio pros and recordists alike.

I'm currently using two 8200A's which act as hubs for my entire hybrid setup. Line mixers and track or stem summers. The routing features and inter-connecting flexibity are phenomenal. Along with the 3124mb+, 5500 and 2500, I'm quite an API aficionado. These are keepers!!!

Also great to hear the API folks standing behind their products even after they are discontinued. Although, I have a feeling we haven't seen the last of the API console-in-a-rack concepts.

Old 8th January 2014
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 127Riot View Post
Agreed, I have 24 channels of api 8200 summing, it sounds amazing, the best part about the 8200,7800,8200A,7600 is that you can build the system to your needs, most people on this thread are stating what they would and wouldn't want, and everyone's needs are different. I think the api 8200 system got discontinued because a lot of people didn't understand it, therefore api did not sell a ton of them. So they got yanked. The api 8200,7800,8200A is a steal on the used market. It's the closest you will get to mixing on a newer api console without buying an api console, I have done quite a few comparisons between the api 8200 summing set up and a vintage API 1604, the api 1604 always sounded warmer with more love butter. "That sound".

However, the api 8200 summing set up, has the punch, clarity, depth, and separation. Insert eq's on some channels and watch it come to life. Compared to an ITB mix it's night and day.

It's very much like the old Huntington 2520's vs the new api 2520's, the old ones have a smooth butter punch, and the new ones have faster bite and impact. Both are great.

It's a shame api discontinued the 8200/dsm summing series, they are really great. Especially if you track and mix like I do. Mixing mainly ITB using the DAW, automation /faders, running it through the api 8200's just makes it better, a lot better. I talk with some of the guys at API periodically they are all super nice and very helpful. I was told recently they still repair the 8200/DSM system as well as all products they ever released provided parts are available. I know some of the older hand wired eq switches are not available.

I'm sure the new api the BOX is great, and if it has all the functions your after its a great medium between the 1608 and the the other options. I'm sure it's the same circuitry as well. API uses the same circuitry in pretty much all their products, 2520/2510 opamps, 2503/2623 output transformers, etc... Personally before I drop $16, thousand on the box, I much rather spend a few thousand here and there to tailor a system to my exact needs. I would love to own a 1608, if I found one floating around unloaded for a good deal I would love to have it. I already have the api eq's to put in it.

The box is cool it's just not for me.


Just curious if you've ever tried replacing some of the 2520's for one of the many new DOA's that are supposedly better recreations of the vintage ones.
Old 30th March 2014
  #210
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Anyone buy this?
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