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AES-NYC: API THE BOX® Project Recording and Mixing Console
Old 21st October 2013
  #151
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya View Post
Also Rudy Van Gelder's genius Blue Note recordings.

Some of my worst drum recordings have used the most mikes. Some of my best --- the most exciting, vivid and involving --- have used the least.

There are no rules, but in general, my recommendation is to pursue simplicity wherever/whenever it's available.

As stated above, fewer phase headaches, more cohesive imaging, etc.

- c

I don't care how many Blue Note or Stones albums you want to cite, not everyone is interested in sounding like Elvin Jones or Charlie Watts.

Sure, some great recordings have been done with a minimal number of mics; I typically use 4-8 for a classic rock, but have used just 3 mics for indie/folk material because that's what the song called for. However, I've also used 14 mics for a nu-metal session with a huge kit and a lot of triggering/sampling was wanted; for this, a 4-mic setup was not going to cut it.

For pop/modern/hard rock stuff, I'll typically put up a stereo pair of room mics and almost always use a front of kick mic, a mic inside the kick, and on occasion, I'll use a beater side mic to capture more attack, especially if there's a complete head on the front or I need to kick to really cut through some chugging guitars on heavy stuff. I'll also use a top and bottom snare mic, depending on the track. Sometimes I throw up all these mics to have options, but only end up using 4 or 5 of them.

None of this is ground-breaking stuff here; in fact, using more than 3-4 mics is the norm, not the exception.

So back to API? Yeah, not enough pres to track drums typically.
Old 22nd October 2013
  #152
500 series nutjob
 
pan60's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gravyface View Post
So back to API? Yeah, not enough pres to track drums typically.
But it is not designed for that application.
You could do it if you wanted. But in the end the BOX looks to me to be designed for mixing out of the BOX.
I do not see wiring a patch bay up so you could use other outboard pres and track with a number of mics as a work around either.
If you need to be tracking a lot, why not just get a 1608.
This thing would be rockin sweet next to my four buss console.
Old 22nd October 2013
  #153
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DR Music's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pan60 View Post
But it is not designed for that application.
You could do it if you wanted. But in the end the BOX looks to me to be designed for mixing out of the BOX.
I do not see wiring a patch bay up so you could use other outboard pres and track with a number of mics as a work around either.
If you need to be tracking a lot, why not just get a 1608.
This thing would be rockin sweet next to my four buss console.
I would imagine because it's a lot more money.

I would like to see 10 channel Console/Side cart with a master section and a 2500 Comp.

I guess I could build a 500 series "sidecart" with couple of API racks (did I see a new 500 input module that's new?) and a 2500 comp. Big money no way around it I guess. 500 modules are great because you can build at your pace.

Are the 500 series Pres and EQ's lacking headroom, slightly different character?
Old 22nd October 2013
  #154
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Silver Sonya's Avatar
 

It's true, I don't regard The Box as a recording console in the typical sense. You'd likely be supplementing it with other mic pres. I think API's target demographic for this product --- and I count myself in that crowd --- might already have all the mic pres they need.

That's the thinking, I imagine. I don't know for sure.

- c

p.s. OT: I found an excerpt from a recent drum recording my band did during our museum sessions. It's primarily a single, mono Bova Ball microphone into a Metric Halo ULN8 mic pre into a compressor. Granted, the resulting sound wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea, but I found it to be exciting. And if you look at the price of the gear used, it's pretty cheap.

BP's a little unusual in that we tend to prefer leaner/rawer/more mono drum recordings because the drums often lock up with an MPC, which has pretty elaborately treated electronic sounds. A simpler drum image works best when mated with the MPC beats, we found.

The Bova is a fairly inexpensive electret topology that seems to have a really cool vibe for drums. I don't know why it's not better known.
Old 22nd October 2013
  #155
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DR Music's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya View Post
recent drum recording my band did during our museum sessions. It's primarily a single, mono Bova Ball microphone into a Metric Halo ULN8 mic pre into a compressor. Granted, the resulting sound wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea, but I found it to be exciting. And if you look at the price of the gear used, it's pretty cheap.



The Bova is a fairly inexpensive electret topology that seems to have a really cool vibe for drums. I don't know why it's not better known.
Don't think so.

My 2c sounds inexpensive.

Let move on from the 1-4 mic technic every one loves, except everyone.
Old 22nd October 2013
  #156
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DR Music's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya View Post
It's true, I don't regard The Box as a recording console in the typical sense. You'd likely be supplementing it with other mic pres. I think API's target demographic for this product --- and I count myself in that crowd --- might already have all the mic pres they need.

That's the thinking, I imagine. I don't know for sure.

- c

p.s. OT: I found an excerpt from a recent drum recording It's primarily a single, mono Bova Ball microphone into a Metric Halo ULN8 mic pre into a compressor. Granted, the resulting sound wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea, but I found it to be exciting. And if you look at the price of the gear used, it's pretty cheap

The Bova is a fairly inexpensive electret topology that seems to have a really cool vibe for drums. I don't know why it's not better known.
Duplicate.
Old 22nd October 2013
  #157
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lozion's Avatar
 

Christ, can we stick to the matter at hand? Discuss drum mic'ing in another thread if you want, this is about an Api summing box (with added mic pres).
Old 22nd October 2013
  #158
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Really cool mixer - would be very useful for electronic and successful
home recordists of any genre etc..

I'll have to look into this further - as a 1608 is too featured and expensive for my needs.

Not for everyone.. but there is plenty of choice out there these days thankfully - a few years
back when I was buying a console there were only Mackies etc.., mid level (not very good),
and vintage high level which were SSL (required machine rooms etc..), Neve's (regular maintenance), API (not
as much maintenance depending on history).. etc..
Old 22nd October 2013
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lozion View Post
Christ, can we stick to the matter at hand? Discuss drum mic'ing in another thread if you want, this is about an Api summing box (with added mic pres).
Funny, I thought it "handles all the functions needed for production not provided by most DAWs, including mic preamps, input signal processing, high-quality mix bus, cue sends with talkback, monitor control, and more, without the redundant capacities of larger consoles.".

Doesn't sound like they're marketing it as a summing box to me.
Old 22nd October 2013
  #160
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Quote:
It's true, I don't regard The Box as a recording console in the typical sense. You'd likely be supplementing it with other mic pres. I think API's target demographic for this product --- and I count myself in that crowd --- might already have all the mic pres they need.
Yes. I certainly won't complain about getting four extra API mic preamps, but I really don't NEED them. I think it may be most comparable to something like Speck's LiLo, but with a few extra bells and whistles (and a different sonic character).

Quote:
Granted, the resulting sound wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea, but I found it to be exciting.
I think it sounds great…maybe not appropriate for every application, but no technique is. Sounds raw, but not cheap, to me.

Quote:
Doesn't sound like they're marketing it as a summing box to me.
Of course they aren't…because they're marketing it as a mixer. Not just a part of a mixer.
Old 22nd October 2013
  #161
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Swurveman's Avatar
I won't buy this because (a) I don't care about hardware faders, (b) I don't care about sending to hardware reverbs etc. out of the box, and (c) I can buy API preamps to track with and can insert API Compressors and EQ's in my DAW.

There must be a market for these summing boxes with some traditional console features though. So, bravo to API for trying to serve it.
Old 22nd October 2013
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swurveman View Post
I won't buy this because (a) I don't care about hardware faders, (b) I don't care about sending to hardware reverbs etc. out of the box, and (c) I can buy API preamps to track with and can insert API Compressors and EQ's in my DAW.

There must be a market for these summing boxes with some traditional console features though. So, bravo to API for trying to serve it.
Well, you're in luck, because you can't: there's no aux returns so you'd have to figure out a workaround anyways.
Old 23rd October 2013
  #163
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Gravity8058's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Jack View Post
I think the name & logo are really nasty.
They should have given it a number like other API products..
+1
Old 23rd October 2013
  #164
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DR Music's Avatar
Let's give "The Box" a real name.
API SUM312-500
Old 23rd October 2013
  #165
Old 23rd October 2013
  #166
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Gravity8058's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya View Post
The name is a colossal marketing error I'm sure they'll correct soon.

- c
Yup
Old 23rd October 2013
  #167
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
yeah the name is kinda lame
Old 23rd October 2013
  #168
Gear Head
 

You could buy a great river mm20, two high calibre pres of choice, two 550s in a lunch box and a 2500 for far less and have much more versatility.

I have ten channels of esoteric compression, including a Zener limiter, and a Bluestripe 1176, and five channels of eq, Avalon, Chandler, that did not add up to the cost of this box.

I am not being a hater here. API is great gear, but C'mon. This thing would be throwing good money down a hole.
Old 23rd October 2013
  #169
More cowbell!
 
natpub's Avatar
I would end up taking off the plate that has the name/log of The BOX off, spraying it back to flat black, and putting it back on--hmm, I wonder if it the back is just the plain black, then you could just flip it. In any case, yeah, the name/logo on it is nasty. Just the API logo is fine.
Old 23rd October 2013
  #170
Deleted User
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Then there is also the API 3124+MB with mix bus for roughly $3000 that will keep things simple and still give you some mixing capability. And it only takes up a 1U rack space.

PS: Fletcher also mentioned this product in some forum within the last five years precisely because of the mix bus.
Old 23rd October 2013
  #171
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DR Music View Post
How much is the ARK?
The Ark is $19800
Old 23rd October 2013
  #172
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DR Music's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno W View Post
The Ark is $19800
Thank you...
after the mic pres and EQ's/comps over $35000? What out there for 35k. You could have a few API/Neve/Daking/ channels strips? Hmmm
Old 24th October 2013
  #173
Here for the gear
 
frankbooth's Avatar
 

didn't make it to AES this year, but this new Purple Audio 500 series based console looks wicked: MFtwenty5 1-RU Mixer & Rack System
would be more of a fully functioning console based around 500 series racks and gear and i would hope less $$$ than the API summing console BOX dealy. seems much more customizable and in the end versatile than BOX. drool-worthy.
Old 24th October 2013
  #174
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dbjp's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DR Music View Post
Thank you...
after the mic pres and EQ's/comps over $35000? What out there for 35k. You could have a few API/Neve/Daking/ channels strips? Hmmm
Don't know if it's still the case but back when they announced the Ark, they had a ridiculously good offer to fill it with their own modules.
Old 24th October 2013
  #175
Gear Addict
 
jono_3's Avatar
I don't see the problem with only having 4 inputs on the desk.

Limited channels keep cost down for smaller studios, and it would be super easy to have another 8 or 16 channels of outboard pres going straight into your A/D for bigger drum sessions or full bands. Plus you still monitor big sessions through the console.

The 4 input channels on the desk are more than adequate for typical overdubbing sessions.

I think a new name and a $16k price tag would be beneficial though.
Old 24th October 2013
  #176
Gear Maniac
random questioning here.....why isn't anyone on to the Ocean Audio Ark? It's close to the same pricing but can be configured into anything you want. I don't get it....I'm not fanboi'ing....I'm looking at the practicality of the Box and i'm just trying to really get my head around how the Ark is being overlooked by most everyone here. To me it's a way superior product. Am I missing something here? help me out....explain. I mean a pricing structure in the teens with the Api Box just to sum and a few slots to keep you happy? That's just nuts. I'd rather pay the teens..still be able to sum with the Ark being EMPTY and when money allows fill that SOB with the hottest pre's and eq's my money can buy at the time and make my own personal console! I don't get it....


thanks
DF
Old 24th October 2013
  #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfere recording View Post
random questioning here.....why isn't anyone on to the Ocean Audio Ark? It's close to the same pricing but can be configured into anything you want. I don't get it....I'm not fanboi'ing....I'm looking at the practicality of the Box and i'm just trying to really get my head around how the Ark is being overlooked by most everyone here. To me it's a way superior product. Am I missing something here? help me out....explain. I mean a pricing structure in the teens with the Api Box just to sum and a few slots to keep you happy? That's just nuts. I'd rather pay the teens..still be able to sum with the Ark being EMPTY and when money allows fill that SOB with the hottest pre's and eq's my money can buy at the time and make my own personal console! I don't get it....


thanks
DF

From my little knowledge the box is all discrete - transformers, op amps etc.. with the bigger API console centre section.

Is the Ark a discrete desk or chip based ?
Old 24th October 2013
  #178
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dbjp's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack P View Post
From my little knowledge the box is all discrete - transformers, op amps etc.. with the bigger API console centre section.

Is the Ark a discrete desk or chip based ?
Not sure, but from the sound of things, you NEED modules (or inserts with outboard) to get some character out of the console. Which can also be seen as a positive.
CAPI in all the slots will give it a totally API-like sound, I'm sure.
Old 24th October 2013
  #179
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack P View Post
From my little knowledge the box is all discrete - transformers, op amps etc.. with the bigger API console centre section.

Is the Ark a discrete desk or chip based ?
Would like to know/understand a bit more about the API's signal path and how much of it is shared with the 1608. Manual mentions the 4 channels with pres/EQ as being the same as the 1608, but nothing about the summing channels.
Old 24th October 2013
  #180
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbjp View Post
Not sure, but from the sound of things, you NEED modules (or inserts with outboard) to get some character out of the console. Which can also be seen as a positive.
CAPI in all the slots will give it a totally API-like sound, I'm sure.
The Ark is more appealing to me, personally. More flexibility with a platform you can grow and evolve over time.
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