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AES-NYC: API THE BOX® Project Recording and Mixing Console
Old 20th October 2013
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OlofBerggren View Post
Almost scary how this little console fulfill all my needs... (looking for a console)
+1

This one looks sooo sexy. I want one!!!
Old 20th October 2013
  #122
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maybe some one can tell us if THAT price is just list price or STREET price...
sometimes list price is way to high than the real shopping price.

15k could be fair if you start from zero your studio... otherwise for me looks like a kinda "well packed" marketing toy...
think how many gears a project studio could buy with 18k, and if you consider that in this economy the used gears getting cheaper...
Old 20th October 2013
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickNagurka View Post
It's also competitively priced against the new Ocean Audio ARK (Malcolm Toft) 500-series console, which sits at $19,999 with 40x 500-series slots, 16 ch summing, full master section and routing. The ARK doesn't come loaded, however (obviously).
Actually, The Ark from Ocean Audio offers 48 inputs summing, and 40 slots for 500 series modules.
This with full master section, including 8 busses, AUX sends, talkback and control for 3 sets of speakers.

Regards
Bruno
Ocean Audio
Old 20th October 2013
  #124
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How much is the ARK?
Old 20th October 2013
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shy View Post
You weirdos have ridiculous slang like "box" for vagina, but the mixer's name is strange?
Weirdos, not me, just amercian slang from the 70 s. I guess. bette midler quote "darling you got a tight box and no t*ts. herbie, get off my back."
Old 20th October 2013
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddageek View Post
In my mind it made the 8200 /7800 look like a great bargain on the used market!
I got 24 channels of 8200A, could not be happier. Feel like they discontinued it to push higher price tag items like the 1608 & the Box.

or maybe they just were not selling. "who Knows"

you grab, the 8200 set up, a rack of pre's and a rack of eq's and you have a modular api console fit to your own needs with your own flavors as needed. A serious personal hybrid set up. Keep in mind I am mainly ITB, I love recall.

The Box is a great unit, However, its only one piece to the puzzle.

I still think it's cool. I rather have a 1608, if I could not find a mint new old stock 1604.
Old 20th October 2013
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gravyface View Post
Nothing personal (and my apologies if I came across that way), but I see your situation as a niche, not a market that's sustainable nor targeted, at least not from the marketing literature.
Thanks, no offense taken! I'm just really curious, because I don't see someone doing mostly mixing in a (kind of...) small footprint studio as an overly special thing.

I certainly found a niche for my own business (as most people in this industry have done). But what's so special about this? There's not only rock and other genres where a recording console and/or many outboard preamps are vital equipment. I'm working on a lot of EDM projects and the last thing I would need for those is a ton of preamps... and I'm sure I'm not alone...
Old 20th October 2013
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airmate View Post
Thanks, no offense taken! I'm just really curious, because I don't see someone doing mostly mixing in a (kind of...) small footprint studio as an overly special thing.

I certainly found a niche for my own business (as most people in this industry have done). But what's so special about this? There's not only rock and other genres where a recording console and/or many outboard preamps are vital equipment. I'm working on a lot of EDM projects and the last thing I would need for those is a ton of preamps... and I'm sure I'm not alone...
I just think, and I could be wrong, that project studios investing in a centerpiece at that kind of price point needs said centerpiece to tick off all the boxes that get thrown at them including the ability to track bands, full drums, aux returns to use outboard effects, DAW control, and possibly motorized faders; something like the Allen & Heath GS-R24M ticks all those boxes and leaves you 7K to buy/fill an API lunchbox.
Old 20th October 2013
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gravyface View Post
I just think, and I could be wrong, that project studios investing in a centerpiece at that kind of price point needs said centerpiece to tick off all the boxes that get thrown at them including the ability to track bands, full drums, aux returns to use outboard effects, DAW control, and possibly motorized faders; something like the Allen & Heath GS-R24M ticks all those boxes and leaves you 7K to buy/fill an API lunchbox.
I see where you're coming from... but a desk that ticks ALL the boxes costs more than 50k, if not 100k...
Any console is a compromise. The Allen&Heath might have a lot of routing capabilities, but it doesn't have the discrete 2520 and transformer based line stages API is famous for.
On almost every level it's "convenience vs. sound quality". A solution that ticks (virtually) all boxes and doesn't cost an arm and a leg can't be more than wishful thinking, for obvious reasons.
Old 20th October 2013
  #130
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This really seems like a good move for API, but as it says this is aimed for project studios/home studios. I really can't imagine there are that many people operating at the project studio/home studio level that would be able to drop even 15k on just one piece like this. I'm able to make a living doing work out of my home studio, but there is no way I would ever be able to drop that much coin at once. Maybe Its me? Maybe there are people at that level who could swing it?
Old 20th October 2013
  #131
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Sure looks nice and I bet it sounds killer.

I have to admit that my heart skipped a beat when I first saw it.
Thinking it was a 1604.
Being a home studio with lots of API out board, pre's, eq's and comps (who doesn't).
I would have had to buy it on principal alone.
16 channels with 4 bus's and 4 aux with returns, two monitor outputs, wow, it would have fit perfectly in my setup!!

Anyways looks like that new pickup is back in the budget for 2014.
Man that was close!!

I'll wait for a center piece like a 1604 for my project studio
I do like my API

Mike
Old 20th October 2013
  #132
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Quote:
I wish they would have left the two first channels as empty slots (as ch 3/4) tough.
Same thing about the 527`s, would be nice to have empty slots instead.
It wouldn't surprise me if you can choose to get it without those two slots full, as you can the 1608…although you don't get the full price in "credit" for leaving them out.

Quote:
To me, The Box reminds me of all of those little plastic boxes I have in my basement...

You know...you buy something and it comes in a little plastic box that you really don't have any need for, but that is just too cool to throw away.
I doubt there's much plastic in this box.

Aside from the name, I think this mixer is actually very well though out…I'd imagine that most people in their target market who will do much tracking already have a bunch of outboard preamps. Look at what you get for your money in a 1608, it's expensive…but it sells well, because it sounds great. Pricing on this is right in line with that, and I assume that it sounds great as well...
Old 20th October 2013
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno W View Post
Actually, The Ark from Ocean Audio offers 48 inputs summing, and 40 slots for 500 series modules.
This with full master section, including 8 busses, AUX sends, talkback and control for 3 sets of speakers.

Regards
Bruno
Ocean Audio
Ah, I should have said 16 faders, not total inputs.

Cheers!
Old 20th October 2013
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duardo View Post
a 1608, it's expensive…but it sells well, because it sounds great.
I wouldn't dispute the sounds great for a second. But how many do you think have sold worldwide since it's introduction? 50? 100? 250? 500? 1000?

I think those numbers are closely guarded by API and we'll never know for sure, but I'd guess the number is significantly smaller than we suspect. The "upper end" console market is a lot of talk, and a little action compared to what it was 20 years ago. Hell, "high end 2013" would barely have squeeked by as mid-level - in terms of dollars - 20 years ago.

But I'd sure love to know how many 1608's and 5088's have sold worldwide in the last say....4-5 years.
Old 20th October 2013
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
But I'd sure love to know how many 1608's and 5088's have sold worldwide in the last say....4-5 years.
i'd be interested as well
Old 20th October 2013
  #136
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I don't imagine they've sold a huge number of them, of course, but apparently they've sold enough to keep them in production, and to warrant the introduction of this thing. I've been a control surface/summing mixer guy for the past few years, but have really started to miss the "feel" of a larger console...this is the first thing I've seen in years that's been within the realm of possibility (sure, it is the upper end of that realm) that's really gotten me interested. I think the new Audient 4816 board looks great as well, and you certainly get more features for your money with that one...but I also really prefer the API sound, and I do already have a decent amount of outboard gear that would make this one work...so I'm curious, at least.
Old 21st October 2013
  #137
MGA
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I'm interested in this as well. Looks like a great solution for some and not for others. One thing I'd like to see is the 16 channel summing section availalbe for the 1608. That would make a great cost effective solution for those that don't require all the functionality, facilities and 500 slots of the 1608 expander but want 16 channels for DAW / Tape returns when tracking and overdubbing.
Old 21st October 2013
  #138
Gear Nut
 

I might be confused, but the Great River MixMaster has 4 pres, 20 channels, inserts, 4 auxes, talkback, for around $7,000 with transformers. $18,000 is kind of steep for just a few more features like faders and a stereo bus compressor?? Also I can build an API summing mixer using multiple 8200's, and a 7800 for a lot less on the used market. Maybe they could have built a 16 channel summing mixer with faders to interface with a 10 space lunchbox.Can someone enlighten me please

Whatever API does, they need to change that graphic and name "The Box". That made me cringe when I saw it. Seems under API's reputation - kinda cheap.
Old 21st October 2013
  #139
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i didnt make it to AES today, but this piece has been on my mind, I wouldnt' be surprised if the summing section is essentially 2 8200s with faders... as i said before, I strongly doubt its using 2520 differential line receivers on every channel coupled with 2520 fader boosters/buffers.. if It did I could see the justification for maybe $15k.. but to say it's for the home/project studio..dunno, maybe Dave grohl's home studio with the sound city console..

they should have included the AD from the A2D for the stereo mix out. and the cool fader caps that look like their knobs i mean for $18k.. seriously.. maybe even a 16 channel DA in there as well.. so you could FW or smux or madi your digital audio right into this thing.. like what the toft was GOING to do with the firewire option, before they abandoned the idea. (that the reason I didn't buy the toft). plus some kind of DAW control, like the focusrite/auident, i mean, for 18k and all..

how much is the matrix? seriously, if I could drop that much cash, the matrix seems like a better buy.. even though I love API stuff,. and only like SSL..

sorry for the rant..
Old 21st October 2013
  #140
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Wish I could've been there at AES to see it in action.

I was with my family in New York some weeks ago should've picked a better day.
Old 21st October 2013
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya View Post
Good lord, no.

- c
Why not?
The more you capture of each individual sound source the more detail you have to work with.
I don't see where I'm wrong in this but if you think you're correct then please provide me with an explanation so I might be able to correct my thinking.
Old 21st October 2013
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
I wouldn't dispute the sounds great for a second. But how many do you think have sold worldwide since it's introduction? 50? 100? 250? 500? 1000?
I remember a couple of years or so ago they announced 100 had been sold..

I'm sure they've sold way more in the meantime.

Not bad in this day and age.

Are there any schematics for this 'BOX', mixer online ?
Would be interesting too see what's under the hood - line drivers, centre section etc..
Old 21st October 2013
  #143
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Hello Gearslutz-World

Did you already recognized that The Box has 28 inputs for mixdown?

1. Route Input Channels 1-4 to PGM
2. Route Summing Input Channels 1-16 to PGM
3. Select on Cue Source the 2 Track 1-4 and reconnect the Cue Outs to the PGM In
You have 28 Channels that you can use for the compressors and inserts too.

I can imagine well to use this console with a 24-track-machine if you only need 4 Stereo-streams for your submixes and 16 individual tracks, that leave you 4 Channels for FX-Return.

Nice Box.

Old 21st October 2013
  #144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul EQ View Post
I remember a couple of years or so ago they announced 100 had been sold..

I'm sure they've sold way more in the meantime.

Not bad in this day and age.

Are there any schematics for this 'BOX', mixer online ?
Would be interesting too see what's under the hood - line drivers, centre section etc..
http://www.apiaudio.com/TheBOX_Manual_ver0.pdf

There you go!
Old 21st October 2013
  #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoNoNoise View Post
Hello Gearslutz-World

Did you already recognized that The Box has 28 inputs for mixdown?

1. Route Input Channels 1-4 to PGM
2. Route Summing Input Channels 1-16 to PGM
3. Select on Cue Source the 2 Track 1-4 and reconnect the Cue Outs to the PGM In
You have 28 Channels that you can use for the compressors and inserts too.

I can imagine well to use this console with a 24-track-machine if you only need 4 Stereo-streams for your submixes and 16 individual tracks, that leave you 4 Channels for FX-Return.

Nice Box.

Cool. I don't like workarounds though.
Old 21st October 2013
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Cool. I don't like workarounds though.
Not for that ticket price.
Old 21st October 2013
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jswitch View Post
Why not?
The more you capture of each individual sound source the more detail you have to work with.
I don't see where I'm wrong in this but if you think you're correct then please provide me with an explanation so I might be able to correct my thinking.
Check out the Stones in the 70's
Old 21st October 2013
  #148
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Originally Posted by wxyz View Post
Check out the Stones in the 70's
Wow, are we really still beating this to death?
Old 21st October 2013
  #149
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Quote:
I might be confused, but the Great River MixMaster has 4 pres, 20 channels, inserts, 4 auxes, talkback, for around $7,000 with transformers. $18,000 is kind of steep for just a few more features like faders and a stereo bus compressor??
Well, first off it's a console, in a much larger chassis…and yes, there are faders, and a stereo buss compressor, and two EQs. Everything's also hardwired with its own dedicated knob/button, where there's a lot of digital control in the MixMaster. Not that there's a problem with that, but it's certainly less expensive to do. Oh, and it's a console.

Quote:
how much is the matrix? seriously, if I could drop that much cash, the matrix seems like a better buy.. even though I love API stuff,. and only like SSL.
About five grand more, I believe.

Quote:
If you want the best results you have to mic every sound source separately.

Good lord, no.

The more you capture of each individual sound source the more detail you have to work with.
I don't see where I'm wrong in this but if you think you're correct then please provide me with an explanation so I might be able to correct my thinking.
The main thing that's "wrong" with your statement is the thought that there's one "best" way to do things.

You don't necessarily have more "detail" when you capture each drum individually. You have more control, sure, but ideally, the drummer is able to balance his or herself properly. What you do have is a whole lot of phase problems, because the sound from each drum is arriving at each microphone at a different time. That's great with a minimalist setup, but when you're talking about a microphone on each individual drum, maybe two on the kick and snare, plus overheads and maybe individual microphones on the ride cymbal and hi-hats…it can be a nightmare.

If you're going for a modern pop or rock recording when everything's in your face then, sure, a mic on everything may be the "best" way to go…but if you're going for a natural sound, there's nothing natural about putting a microphone an inch away from anything. If you want a good example of a great-sounding drums that are recorded with just a few microphones, just listen to some Zeppelin.
Old 21st October 2013
  #150
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Also Rudy Van Gelder's genius Blue Note recordings.

Some of my worst drum recordings have used the most mikes. Some of my best --- the most exciting, vivid and involving --- have used the least.

There are no rules, but in general, my recommendation is to pursue simplicity wherever/whenever it's available.

As stated above, fewer phase headaches, more cohesive imaging, etc.

- c
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