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Waves and Abbey Road Studios present the J37 tape saturation plugin
Old 19th October 2013
  #181
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RaySoul's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
It's a 3M M79.

My bad, Bob. Mixing up my tape sats. Spent a lot of time with the M79 in Philly.
Old 19th October 2013
  #182
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Pads of Canada

Nice preset
Old 19th October 2013
  #183
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Just demo-ed it. Not tempted to buying so far. It's good for getting crunch (some call it saturation) if you're looking for that. On 'normal' levels I didn't have the idea that it improved the recording. On the mix bus it didn't really add anything either, to my taste. I'd imagine a mix getting too mushy if you'd use this everywhere. I'm sure other folks will like it though.
Old 19th October 2013
  #184
Here for the gear
 

I like the extreme wow and flutter of ampex 102 by uad. Does any of these plugin tape have that??? Vtm doesn't, Kramer doesn't. does satin or j37 do this?
Old 19th October 2013
  #185
Gear Nut
 

just tested, hmm....but neither J37 nor VTM beats "my own build tape machine (mobtm ) as it is a combination of SDRR tube mode and SonEQPro with a little att. of the Low and a little boost of the High so far... I really really love the J37 GUI, damn...
Old 19th October 2013
  #186
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Farshad's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cane creek View Post
Pads of Canada

Nice preset
LOL :D
Old 19th October 2013
  #187
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Tried on a simple rock-ish mix
drum bus, guitars and 2bus

What I don't like is that it has some sort of "nasal" sound
on everything I've tried it on, despite of settings, tape type
etc.. maybe that's how the machine sounds and eh,
not my cup of tea.

Whan I put it on the guitar bus tho' at first made
me smile, I liked many things that it was doing
but again, that hollow-ish nasal sound was there and
it was a turn off.. :/

Maybe with different material and lil more experimenting
it can be useful, but so far it doesn't really impress me
Old 19th October 2013
  #188
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Aaron Rash's Avatar
Definitely much better than their earlier Ampex model, however, my Roberts770 tube tape deck I have from the 60's kicks this thing ass. I've found it's mostly useful for the delay. I don't get excited about plugin releases anymore because I know what to expect. Either way, nice job Waves, I like it.
Old 19th October 2013
  #189
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candyflip's Avatar
Looking forward to trying this alongside the CDSoundMaster r2r libraries for Nebula
Old 20th October 2013
  #190
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One thing I've noticed about this plug is that when you gain stage properly, i.e. to keep the signal clean, it seems that the output volume is low.
Old 20th October 2013
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by candyflip View Post
Looking forward to trying this alongside the CDSoundMaster r2r libraries for Nebula
Ha! I was just gonna ask: Anyone compared this with R2R? I'm hesitant to even mention Nebula, as the mere subject often triggers flames. But, I use R2R on every mix and have yet to find a DSP equivent that sounds as good. CDSoundmaster knows his stuff!
Old 20th October 2013
  #192
To me it sounds alot better than the UAD Ampex!

I dont think they necessarily did a better job emulating, but their initial model J37 is just much closer to the type of tape machine sound I like.

I like a very vintage 50/60's tape machine sound YOU CAN HEAR, and in combination with either some URS Saturation or UAD Studer distortion (because J37 distortion is ok) this gets you close to at least the curves and vibe of the machine.
Old 20th October 2013
  #193
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Jeezo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by contramark View Post
To me it sounds alot better than the UAD Ampex!

I dont think they necessarily did a better job emulating, but their initial model J37 is just much closer to the type of tape machine sound I like.

I like a very vintage 50/60's tape machine sound YOU CAN HEAR, and in combination with either some URS Saturation or UAD Studer distortion (because J37 distortion is ok) this gets you close to at least the curves and vibe of the machine.
you point out something important :

Back then people used to choose gear they want/like sound wise ....and so some gears were spot on and some others were just not that !!

Now people expect an absolute statement about plugins : sounds good or not !! it's even more strange for HW emulation!!
Old 20th October 2013
  #194
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OK but how does it compare to the Kramer MPX (other tape from waves)?

More: has Waves forgotten about innovation? :/
Old 20th October 2013
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ayskura View Post
OK but how does it compare to the Kramer MPX (other tape from waves)?

More: has Waves forgotten about innovation? :/
I like this much more than Kramer.
Old 20th October 2013
  #196
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeezo View Post
you point out something important :

Back then people used to choose gear they want/like sound wise ...
Not that we ever had a hell of a lot of choices! When something new came out, a manufacturer's rep brought it to the studio and we compared it to what we already had. If it was clearly better, we talked the boss into buying one. If the glow faded after using it a while, we went back to the previous device. Few were ever brave enough to tell the boss it sucked.

The plug-in is comparing pretty well to a CCIR C37 transfer I did recently provided I turn the input way down. The C37 was an advance over the Ampex 351 in my world because it was less colored. It's too bad more U.S. studios didn't use them. The only ones I know for sure were RCA Victor, Scotty Moore's Music City Recorders and us at Motown. Our machines got sold to Crystal in Hollywood.
Old 20th October 2013
  #197
Gear Guru
 
Jeezo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
Not that we ever had a hell of a lot of choices! When something new came out, a manufacturer's rep brought it to the studio and we compared it to what we already had. If it was clearly better, we talked the boss into buying one. If the glow faded after using it a while, we went back to the previous device. Few were ever brave enough to tell the boss it sucked.

The plug-in is comparing pretty well to a CCIR C37 transfer I did recently provided I turn the input way down. The C37 was an advance over the Ampex 351 in my world because it was less colored. It's too bad more U.S. studios didn't use them. The only ones I know for sure were RCA Victor, Scotty Moore's Music City Recorders and us at Motown. Our machines got sold to Crystal in Hollywood.
Thks Bob for taking part of the discussion ....can you check this post :

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/9511326-post112.html

thks
Old 20th October 2013
  #198
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Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeezo View Post
May i ask Bob Olhsson or even other Tapes guyz one thing :

Back then , do you guyz used to calibrate /change tapes models /speed/bias ect ..according to each song/group/type of music/sessions or did you sticck with one set up that you loved for all scenarios ? ?
Back in the '60s the machines were pretty hard to set up. Typically a tech went over each in the morning and it was aligned to a standard alignment tape with record set up to the batch of tape we currently had on hand and were using.

In the '70s with the rise of independent studios it became necessary to realign for each project and put tones on the tapes. Unfortunately that much additional adjustment made the machines far less stable and quickly necessitated aligning far more often. I never heard of anybody doing custom alignments for specific tracks or projects. Each studio had a different approach and I had mine which was going for minimum asperity noise.
Old 20th October 2013
  #199
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sorry to spoil the party again ... but another tape simulation? really? why? I thought wed all be happy to got rid of that tape-bs with all that hiss and fuzz and ugly noise ...

I demoed some weeks ago the U-He thingie. yep, sounds like tape, sounds very tape-ish. and that was the reason I put the demo into the trashcan.

really, I dont get it ... who of you oh-the-good-old-days-boys would drive a VW Käfer from the mid-60s, because its so ... retro ... vintage ... analog ... whatever-ish?

really, I dont get it ...
Old 20th October 2013
  #200
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Blues Bird's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteaxxxe View Post
sorry to spoil the party again ... but another tape simulation? really? why? I thought wed all be happy to got rid of that tape-bs with all that hiss and fuzz and ugly noise ...

I demoed some weeks ago the U-He thingie. yep, sounds like tape, sounds very tape-ish. and that was the reason I put the demo into the trashcan.

really, I dont get it ... who of you oh-the-good-old-days-boys would drive a VW Käfer from the mid-60s, because its so ... retro ... vintage ... analog ... whatever-ish?

really, I dont get it ...
Because sound matters?

You might as well ask this question to the guys from Daft Punk who recently spent a million dollar on their new album and recorded it to tape...
Old 20th October 2013
  #201
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nickelironsteel's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteaxxxe View Post
sorry to spoil the party again ... but another tape simulation? really? why? I thought wed all be happy to got rid of that tape-bs with all that hiss and fuzz and ugly noise ...

I demoed some weeks ago the U-He thingie. yep, sounds like tape, sounds very tape-ish. and that was the reason I put the demo into the trashcan.

really, I dont get it ... who of you oh-the-good-old-days-boys would drive a VW Käfer from the mid-60s, because its so ... retro ... vintage ... analog ... whatever-ish?

really, I dont get it ...
whats your point? lets assume this waves plugin even remotely would emulate a studer tube tape machine (which it does not: sounds like theyre rehasing their algos from their other plugs like they do over and over and over again - and it still sounds yikes) ----- youre comparing a VW Käfer with a Silberpfeil W 196.
Old 20th October 2013
  #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickelironsteel View Post
whats your point? lets assume this waves plugin even remotely would emulate a studer tube tape machine (which it does not: sounds like theyre rehasing their algos from their other plugs like they do over and over and over again - and it still sounds yikes) ----- youre comparing a VW Käfer with a Silberpfeil W 196.
I would like you to provide proof of this.
Old 21st October 2013
  #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blues Bird View Post
Because sound matters?

You might as well ask this question to the guys from Daft Punk who recently spent a million dollar on their new album and recorded it to tape...
Or how about the Foo Fighters Wasting Light?? Done totally on tape.
Old 21st October 2013
  #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb View Post
I would like you to provide proof of this.
its the ears... impossible to proof
Old 21st October 2013
  #205
Gear Guru
 
Jeezo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
Back in the '60s the machines were pretty hard to set up. Typically a tech went over each in the morning and it was aligned to a standard alignment tape with record set up to the batch of tape we currently had on hand and were using.

In the '70s with the rise of independent studios it became necessary to realign for each project and put tones on the tapes. Unfortunately that much additional adjustment made the machines far less stable and quickly necessitated aligning far more often. I never heard of anybody doing custom alignments for specific tracks or projects. Each studio had a different approach and I had mine which was going for minimum asperity noise.

thks Bob !! so now we can imagine how exiting it is to do it in a mouse scroll for people like you !!
Old 21st October 2013
  #206
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Herb's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickelironsteel View Post
its the ears... impossible to proof
It would be possible to prove by viewing the code which you obviously haven't done.

As it is I think you are talking nonsense.
Old 21st October 2013
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb View Post
It would be possible to prove by viewing the code which you obviously haven't done.

As it is I think you are talking nonsense.
Of course it's nonsense.

It sounds obviously different and unique compared to their other tools.
Old 21st October 2013
  #208
Gear Addict
 
Dimmy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blues Bird View Post
You might as well ask this question to the guys from Daft Punk who recently spent a million dollar on their new album and recorded it to tape...
Not in the least does this legitimate the use of tape or tape plugins. It just tells us that Daft Punk are a little daft. Or liars. Or both. Those kings of turning nostalgia into gold.
Old 21st October 2013
  #209
I am in the mix of a pop album that needs some serious retro echo effects on multiple synths and vocals. I dialed up my demo of the J37 and got what I thought were some really unique and perfect sounding delays with the J37. I found that I had to use them as inserts because putting a whole track through the tape unit mudded it up too much.

Then I decided hey - lets me try to get a similar cool retro sounding echo with something I already own. So I pulled out the very old and rather inexpensive Waves Super tap 6. I was able in no time to create the same delays in stereo and added some modulation (which is build into the plug) and bingo - it sounded the same except that it didn't have the added tape distortion and mid range sounding eq curve of the J37. I liked the Super Tap better because it was clearer sounding. Its interface is rather boring in comparison but for me easier to navigate. If I want to add saturation to the echo I have so many saturation plugs already so no problem.

Just saved myself some money and lots of wasted CPU drain.
Old 21st October 2013
  #210
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Blues Bird's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimmy View Post
Not in the least does this legitimate the use of tape or tape plugins. It just tells us that Daft Punk are a little daft. Or liars. Or both. Those kings of turning nostalgia into gold.

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