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Roger Mayer AMP+ Series Analogue Direct
Old 13th October 2013
  #1
Gear Head
 
Roger Mayer's Avatar
 

Hardware Roger Mayer AMP+ Series Analogue Direct

Please have a look at the new series on our website.
Guitar Effects Pedals & Voodoo Lux by Roger Mayer - Jimi Hendrix FX Guru - established 1964. (Audio - Recording - Guitar Effects - Voodoo Lux Art Engineering -Light Sculptures)
Attached Thumbnails
Roger Mayer AMP+ Series Analogue Direct-amp-900.jpg   Roger Mayer AMP+ Series Analogue Direct-amp-bass_450.jpg   Roger Mayer AMP+ Series Analogue Direct-amp-m59_450.jpg   Roger Mayer AMP+ Series Analogue Direct-amp-s57_450.jpg  

Last edited by Grahamdwc; 29th October 2013 at 01:45 PM..
Old 13th October 2013
  #2
Gear Addict
 

Don't let the looks fool you.
They're absolutely ugly to look at imo but the sound is awesome.
Old 13th October 2013
  #3
Gear Head
 
Roger Mayer's Avatar
 

Hardware Function over form

Quote:
Originally Posted by jswitch View Post
Don't let the looks fool you.
They're absolutely ugly to look at imo but the sound is awesome.
The big knob is to enable you to adjust with your foot and the opinion is split with some folks liking the look and some not. This design is one of function dictating form and after all you hear with your ears as most people will agree.

Last edited by Roger Mayer; 13th October 2013 at 09:21 PM.. Reason: spelling
Old 14th October 2013
  #4
Gear Nut
 
scrizly's Avatar
 

I agree they are not pretty, and however they sound, the design aesthetic counts for quite a bit in a market flooded with fancy looking boutique gear. Cost reduction is good, but there's a risk where something will just be perceived as a lower quality product based on its appearance. In this case the cheap sticker-like labeling/logos and the small plastic knobs contribute to a rather thrown-together prototype sort of look IMHO.
Old 14th October 2013
  #5
Gear Head
 
Roger Mayer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by scrizly View Post
I agree they are not pretty, and however they sound, the design aesthetic counts for quite a bit in a market flooded with fancy looking boutique gear. Cost reduction is good, but there's a risk where something will just be perceived as a lower quality product based on its appearance. In this case the cheap sticker-like labeling/logos and the small plastic knobs contribute to a rather thrown-together prototype sort of look IMHO.
I find it interesting that the size of these control knobs is perceived as small when in actuality they are 72% larger than the knobs on my Focusrite Saffire Interface. They are also soft touch rubber coated and were made in Switzerland. The large knob is indeed large at 40mm (1.56") and this make setting up accurate and easy. The laser labels we use are made from the latest high tech type of scratch and dent proof resistant polyurethane and are made by the same company that supplies Jaguar and BMW who also use this type of marking technology.
We have of course been using silkscreened printed boxes for over 30 years but found they do not represent the ultimate in durability today. The new trend in direct printing multicolor digital images to metal or using water transfer techniques for patterns then clear varnished is subject to foot damage but I can understand the visual appeal. Then you have the opposite trend with people spending large money for new guitars that are beat up to order or as they say New Pre-Used. Anyway thanks for your input.
Old 15th October 2013
  #6
Here for the gear
 

Roger Mayer Amp+ Series

I Have the 57, 59, and Bass units at the studio and they are a massive hit, both with live and studio projects. The designs have been nothing but praised by our clients for ease of use and more inportantly visual impact on stage. I say "good job Mr Mayer" keep up the great work and maybe he will bless us with some RM Studio outboard gear very soon. :o)
Old 16th October 2013
  #7
Very interesting little boxes. Any idea of pricing yet?
Old 16th October 2013
  #8
Lives for gear
 
DirkP's Avatar
 

ca. $400 according to Ebay...
Dirk
Old 16th October 2013
  #9
bee
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bee's Avatar
 

I'd love to hear some direct recordings of these things if anyone has them.
Old 16th October 2013
  #10
Gear Head
 
Roger Mayer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bee View Post
I'd love to hear some direct recordings of these things if anyone has them.
Please check out our website for Sound Cloud Clips on these new AMP+ models.
Old 17th October 2013
  #11
amp emulation DI pedals or pedals to be used with an amp?
Old 17th October 2013
  #12
Lives for gear
 
DirkP's Avatar
 

Is it just me or does this sound distorted in an unpleasant way, esp. the "pops", not the slapping? The same for the other bass audio clip, esp. at the end. Are people after these sounds???

I have listened to the clips through a Focusrite Forte interface and Adam speakers.

Bass 5

Bass 6

This is not meant offensive in any way, but I was really surprised. Maybe other bassplayers love the sound?

Dirk
Old 18th October 2013
  #13
Gear Head
 
Roger Mayer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post
amp emulation DI pedals or pedals to be used with an amp?
The AMP+ Series provide a Solid State version / Emulation or Simulation of some
industry standard type of guitar and bass amplifiers. The output of the devices can be connected to a recording system or can be connected to a linear amplifier such as found in any PA System or Monitor System. The analogue direct sound from them has very similar characteristics of the amplifier electronics and further processing can be used to simulate speaker cabs echo and so forth.
For further info please visit our website.
Old 18th October 2013
  #14
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Mayer View Post
The AMP+ Series provide a Solid State version / Emulation or Simulation of some
industry standard type of guitar and bass amplifiers. The output of the devices can be connected to a recording system or can be connected to a linear amplifier such as found in any PA System or Monitor System. The analogue direct sound from them has very similar characteristics of the amplifier electronics and further processing can be used to simulate speaker cabs echo and so forth.
For further info please visit our website.
Well I went ahead and purchased the 57. As a guitar gear junkie I was curious about this box. Amp emulation in a box is not exactly new Sans Amp did it a long long time ago Radial etc.. But my reasoning was hey maybe Roger figured out another method. So when it came I plugged it in to my trusty API 3124mb. I mean if you can't get a decent sound with this pre-amp it's probably not going to happen.With my DeTemple strat in hand and going through UAD's Appollo Console App then into PT direct no effects plugins, my first impression was man this thing is too bright and has a sound as if someone was playing a guitar through a box with a piezo pickup. It was bright and clacky but also had some kind of compression or sag thing going on hmm interesting. So I thought nah this can't be right. First thing I did was push the pad button on the API and start to make some adjustments to the Bass,Treble and Presence controls and that certainly helped a lot. But as I seldom track a clean electric guitar signal directly, if I need a clean sound I use an amp. It just sounds fuller to me in the mix. Okay so lets try this box out with a plugin. My favorite plugin is the Scufffham S-gear emulation. It has a very nice open sound for an amp sim, I do have the others but always come back to this one cause to my ears it's just better. Okay going through the S-Gear plugin now we are getting somewhere. While S-Gear sounds great on it's own I'm always looking to get it to sound better. I had tried it with the Sans Amp and it was decent but to my thinking added to much of an amp sound to a plugin that already has well an amp sound. Thus my interest in the 57. Now with the 57 and the S-Gear plugin the guitar started sounding much more pleasurably. That compression/sag I mentioned earlier really started to make sense with some overdrive. The S-Gear setting I used was the Strat Drive with a few of my own tweaks. Now my initial impression of the 57 was definitely changing for the better and I was starting to groove on this box while playing to some drum loops. To my ears it adds a little more dynamics to the S-Gear. As I am always looking to push the envelope for better guitar sound it all started to come together. This was my first go-around with the 57 and tomorrow I plan on experimenting more with other guitars, stomp boxes before the 57 etc. I will record the sounds I got with the set-up above and let you come to your own conclusion, I'll try and post it later today. So there ya have it. Good job Roger.
Old 19th October 2013
  #15
Gear Head
 
Roger Mayer's Avatar
 

Using the AMP+ with other plug ins.

The AMP+ series when used on its own will have more detail and presence than you are probably used to from a conventional digital plug in that is working from a sampled analogue signal. So you have to be make sure that you are not trying to process it with another type of guitar amp processor as in fact what you are doing is plugging in one guitar amp into another.
The best results will be obtained by using digital speaker simulation and equalization to obtain your particular flavor of guitar tone. What we are not trying to accomplish is to produce a standard nasal type of tone that is easily done using conventional recording techniques.
It is not a pedal and should not be treated as such to be plugged into a guitar amp or any simulation/emulation..
Old 19th October 2013
  #16
Gear Maniac
 
Silas Holmes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Mayer View Post
It is not a pedal and should not be treated as such to be plugged into a guitar amp or any simulation/emulation..
Excuse me, Roger. But what is it then exactly? I could not figure it out from the description on your website. And my impressions from listening to your Soundcloud samples correspond with tele27's description of his experience with the actual unit.

Do I have to put in in front of a cabinet simulator?
Old 19th October 2013
  #17
Moderator
 
Blast9's Avatar
Hmmm... I see what you mean. No mention of speaker sim in the product description but it does say you can plug into a full range speaker system so I'd naturally assume there is speaker type filter in there.
Old 19th October 2013
  #18
Gear Head
 
Roger Mayer's Avatar
 

AMP+ applications

Please have a read of the review below to get a better insight of the possible applications.
GuitarGeek - Roger Mayer AMP+ - Super 57 and M59 - Gear Review
The AMP+ does not have a speaker sim built in as it can be used as an input to a PA System.
The recording aspect using these devices offers advantages over other methods but the signal output is wide range and not bandwidth limited and so does require a unique approach to use all the information that is there.
Most people who use conventional techniques will be surprised by the definition which can be at first seen strange as every subtlety and nuance from the guitar is there and any fret buzz and mistakes will immediately become apparent.
It does not flatter in the same way a soft focus lens might flatter an image.
What it does do is give you the option to utilise the detail as never before.
You can always lose detail but never create it if it was not there.
When the signal is fed into a PA system for a live performance the audience reaction to the clarity and power that is on hand has been very encouraging and many favorable comments have been made by the audience as well as the sound men.
So when trying to understand exactly what it is you can throw away your pre conceived ideas and concentrate on the application of the sound when used in the correct context and not just judge it's sound in isolation which is not always the best method.
Old 19th October 2013
  #19
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Mayer View Post
The AMP+ series when used on its own will have more detail and presence than you are probably used to from a conventional digital plug in that is working from a sampled analogue signal. So you have to be make sure that you are not trying to process it with another type of guitar amp processor as in fact what you are doing is plugging in one guitar amp into another.
The best results will be obtained by using digital speaker simulation and equalization to obtain your particular flavor of guitar tone. What we are not trying to accomplish is to produce a standard nasal type of tone that is easily done using conventional recording techniques.
It is not a pedal and should not be treated as such to be plugged into a guitar amp or any simulation/emulation..
After a little more time with it I'd have to agree with the amp into an Amp VI.
It is a little too pushed. That said to avoid some time diagrams and a little more explanation would have gone a long way. In any case today I will experiment with your prescribed method see how we do.
Thanks
Old 19th October 2013
  #20
Gear Maniac
 

Roger Mayer AMP+ Series Analogue Direct

Here is the link with the Strat through the Super 57.The signal chain is Strat to a Green Tube Screamer to the Super 57 into the Api pre to PT11 with Karzog's Recabinet set with two 4-12 cabs and just a little HPF to 125hz to roll off the low end.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...-recabinet.wav
Old 19th October 2013
  #21
Gear Head
 
Roger Mayer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tele27 View Post
Here is the link with the Strat through the Super 57.The signal chain is Strat to a Green Tube Screamer to the Super 57 into the Api pre to PT11 with Karzog's Recabinet set with two 4-12 cabs and just a little HPF to 125hz to roll off the low end.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...-recabinet.wav
The Tube Screamer uses diodes in the feedback loop which produce a lot of odd harmonic distortion which this is then heavily internally filtered . These type of fuzz circuits produce a nasal type of tone that is not particularly wide range and also relies upon the further EQ characteristics of a typical guitar loudspeaker to eliminate and smooth some of the inherent fizzy harmonic content they contain. To be honest I have never used diodes this way in any of my designs as the end result to my ears lacks dynamic response due to the way the diodes clip and you are stuck with this characteristic from square one even when you subsequently try to process this sound further.
The Fuzz Face type of circuit does not have these characteristics but a Big Muff also does and of course it's a matter of taste and application as to the choice of tone you select for the song.
Old 19th October 2013
  #22
still a bit confused...so for direct you get a line out that either goes into a speaker or needs a cabinet ITB?
Old 19th October 2013
  #23
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Mayer View Post
The Tube Screamer uses diodes in the feedback loop which produce a lot of odd harmonic distortion which this is then heavily internally filtered . These type of fuzz circuits produce a nasal type of tone that is not particularly wide range and also relies upon the further EQ characteristics of a typical guitar loudspeaker to eliminate and smooth some of the inherent fizzy harmonic content they contain. To be honest I have never used diodes this way in any of my designs as the end result to my ears lacks dynamic response due to the way the diodes clip and you are stuck with this characteristic from square one even when you subsequently try to process this sound further.
The Fuzz Face type of circuit does not have these characteristics but a Big Muff also does and of course it's a matter of taste and application as to the choice of tone you select for the song.
Well maybe that's the case for your overdrive boxes, but a lot of people use some form of TS9 type circuit as an overdrive. Agreed this particular one does have a bump in the mid-range. In your opinion what exactly should be the pedal placed in front of the Super 57 for overdrive. I placed another .wav file of the Strat into the API pre then into the S-Gear plugin just as a comparison for a distorted strat.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...20Screamer.wav

Last edited by tele27; 19th October 2013 at 11:38 PM.. Reason: Wrong URL
Old 20th October 2013
  #24
Gear Head
 
Roger Mayer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tele27 View Post
Well maybe that's the case for your overdrive boxes, but a lot of people use some form of TS9 type circuit as an overdrive. Agreed this particular one does have a bump in the mid-range. In your opinion what exactly should be the pedal placed in front of the Super 57 for overdrive. I placed another .wav file of the Strat into the API pre then into the S-Gear plugin just as a comparison for a distorted strat.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...20Screamer.wav
Your sound example perfectly illustrates what happens when a studio mic-pre is used for guitar. Although it has a high input impedance it does not have the correct EQ or Gain Structure through multiple stages that a guitar amplifier or our AMP+ Series has. So when you listen to this signal it has lost a lot of detail from the guitar strings and masks the nuances of the guitar playing. This is further compromised by further digital processing which is applied after the initial A to D process.
If you listen to our sample below you will hear how a straight guitar can sound
when recorded directly using the Super 57 AMP+ with all the detail and dynamics preserved and remember that this is an mp3 file not a wav.

https://soundcloud.com/roger-mayer-o...57-eddie-angel
Old 20th October 2013
  #25
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Mayer View Post
Your sound example perfectly illustrates what happens when a studio mic-pre is used for guitar. Although it has a high input impedance it does not have the correct EQ or Gain Structure through multiple stages that a guitar amplifier or our AMP+ Series has. So when you listen to this signal it has lost a lot of detail from the guitar strings and masks the nuances of the guitar playing. This is further compromised by further digital processing which is applied after the initial A to D process.
If you listen to our sample below you will hear how a straight guitar can sound
when recorded directly using the Super 57 AMP+ with all the detail and dynamics preserved and remember that this is an mp3 file not a wav.

https://soundcloud.com/roger-mayer-o...57-eddie-angel
Well that was a flat example, eq'ing was not used with the exception of a HF filter. The API 3124m+ has a direct inject. So how is an API preamp different then a live console? Also can the 57 be used with a stompbox in front of it? So far you haven't explained the optimum setup and if one wanted to use some overdrive how that is best accomplished.. I heard what it sounds like here clean and with the samples on your website clean. Personally I did not find it all that pleasing. So now that you have explained all the things I have done wrong and are wrong please tell me what is the optimum signal route?
Thanks
Old 20th October 2013
  #26
Moderator
 
Blast9's Avatar
Roger, (and everyone else)

what do you find is the best way to simulate a speaker's EQ with an amp sim like this? (disregarding speaker IRs)

bearing in mind most gtr speakers are far from flat - peak around 2-3K then sharp roll-off, and roll-off at the bottom end too. Kinda like an SM58 heh

Gentle slope low pass?
Old 20th October 2013
  #27
Moderator
 
Blast9's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tele27 View Post
Here is the link with the Strat through the Super 57.The signal chain is Strat to a Green Tube Screamer to the Super 57 into the Api pre to PT11 with Karzog's Recabinet set with two 4-12 cabs and just a little HPF to 125hz to roll off the low end.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...-recabinet.wav
PS tele - I have Recabinet and find I often end up using a high shelf before or after the speaker sim to brighten the tone.

I like it though, and use it as much as redwirez... I tend to use the LePou LeCab most though.
Old 20th October 2013
  #28
Gear Head
 
Roger Mayer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blast9 View Post
Roger, (and everyone else)

what do you find is the best way to simulate a speaker's EQ with an amp sim like this? (disregarding speaker IRs)

bearing in mind most gtr speakers are far from flat - peak around 2-3K then sharp roll-off, and roll-off at the bottom end too. Kinda like an SM58 heh

Gentle slope low pass?
The speakers frequency response is well documented together with the microphone characteristics.
So the next question you have to ask yourself am I confident that the irreversible changes I will make now in reducing dynamics and high frequency detail absolutely correct. The answer to this very important question is usually no and my professional advice to anyone who is recording a complete track is to leave all your options open until the position of in this case the guitar part is established in the mix. The position or level in the mix along with the overall sound of the track will establish what type of tone I should use and the golden rule is that if the guitar is way down in the mix it needs to be much brighter for it to have definition. This easily be heard by the adoption of Telecasters in Country Style Music where the Vocal is way out in front.
So to answer your question there is no easy solution for what is a very complex and difficult subject. Too many times people choose a sound that is far too dull and lifeless from the start and then have untold problems using it later after they realize all they have done is contribute to the mudiness in their mix.
You then also open up a basket of snakes with the question of shall I use analogue eq before the A to D for adjustment or should I risk using a digital solution once my signal has been digitised. If you have recorded a guitar signal with the AMP+ and set up the recording level properly you can take advantage of the fact that you can relax about not going into digital distortion
as the AMP+ will take care of this. You will also find that your recordings are consistently louder and therefore use the digital process to it's full potential.
The fact that might be using 24 BITS and a HIGH SAMPLE RATE will not change the fact of the physical signal to noise ratio only that you have recorded this noise with more definition. So as always in any recording great attention must be made when understanding your GAIN STRUCTURE SETUP as it is so easy to make serious mistakes.
Having access to a track that can be modified at the time of mixing is very important. So don't add any effects or EQ until you have to and save the original.
This is the main reason I designed the AMP+ series was to give access to a signal that can be used not only for recording but also for performing in the many situations that occur daily.
Everybody would like to have a simple solution for what is a very complex subject and this simple solution does not exist.
Guitar sounds can be characterized by Technique and a lot of people think that speed of playing is the most important Technique but to the serious musician and listener nuance is the most important factor then followed by tone color and rhythmic patterns. This is what defines great players and their tone and I can assure you they are extremely careful about using any process that will compromise any of the above factors. Zero Latency is a must as latency destroys feeling and creativity immediately.
Old 20th October 2013
  #29
just been investigating this further.

Firstly read a bit about the designer - impressive Bio!

Quote:
Roger Mayer is best known for his ground-breaking invention, the Octavia, and his close association with Jimi Hendrix. Prior to joining forces with Jimi, he was employed by the British Admiralty as a scientist focusing on vibration, acoustic capture and analysis. At that time, he started making guitar effects on the side and his No. 1 Fuzz Box was actually used on a hit record by none other than the legendary guitarist Jimmy Page in 1964. Word spread and, in a short time, his guitar effects were being put to use by leading UK artists in live performances and in the studio, which led to Jimi and Roger meeting in 1967. They quickly became friends and together created the landmark recording "Purple Haze." Their close collaboration on subsequent album tracks made sonic history and, to this day, still set the standard for guitar tone. The process of studio recording shaped and propelled Roger's design philosophy and, in 1968, he began producing recording studio equipment and constructing complete recording consoles. This equipment made its way into many internationally-renowned recording studios and has been instrumental in crafting the unique sounds of many famous artists and hit records. The culmination of Roger's studio work and electronic designs led to a Technical Grammy nomination in 2000. Today Roger Mayer manufactures an extensive range of Guitar Products and Audio Recording gear, including the Octavia, Voodoo-Vibe+, RM 58 Limiter and the all new AMP+ Series.
One thing I notice about these amp+ pedals is the presence and liveliness of the tone. However they also sound very direct and up front. I found a clip of a Scuffham sample and whilst I like the tone - its certainly not popping out the speakers in the same way...(its got amp emulation and other fx so not ideal comparison but anyways...)



Old 21st October 2013
  #30
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkP View Post
Is it just me or does this sound distorted in an unpleasant way, esp. the "pops", not the slapping? The same for the other bass audio clip, esp. at the end. Are people after these sounds???

I have listened to the clips through a Focusrite Forte interface and Adam speakers.

Bass 5

Bass 6

This is not meant offensive in any way, but I was really surprised. Maybe other bassplayers love the sound?

Dirk
Hi Dirk it must be you with all due respect, I've been using it in my studio and gigging with it for the last three months and just checked out the clips you refer too and they sound (to me) precise and constant and only drive the harder the bass is played but through a spectrum analyser shows constant output and not square (digital) signal. Comments i have received in both cases have been "amazing". Wack a pair of headphones in your iPhone and have another listen I think you might be referring to what I think, as analogue drive which I love. In reference to "is this what bass players like these days" have a listen to the new winery dogs album & Billy Sheehan, bass player from Mr Big (my hero) distortion, slap, toneful and fat! Think the clips demonstrate well all you can achieve with this truly analogue Amp + module. Rupe
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