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Chris Lord- Alge Waves SSL Presets Dynamics Plugins
Old 27th May 2006
  #61
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Improv's Avatar
 

But some mofo's are so sneaky that they might throw out some awfully weird curves just to keep people guessing. These techniques are probably the opposite of what he really does.

"Does he really boost that much? Almost never cuts? Look he's got it bypassed! That's the secret!"

All the while our mixes sound like crap cause we shelf boosted 9 [email protected] 8k on everything.
Old 27th May 2006
  #62
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superburtm's Avatar
 

the presets are just engineering 101.
Old 27th May 2006
  #63
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jdjustice's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Improv
...............................
All the while our mixes sound like crap cause we shelf boosted 9 [email protected] 8k on everything.

Well for vocals I usually boost at 8kHz, but never as much as 9dB... I usually get good results....
Old 27th May 2006
  #64
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Improv's Avatar
 

I was being fecetious... Do whatever works for you
Old 27th May 2006
  #65
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That definately looks like a preset that is intended to be used in parallel without hearing it in action.
Old 28th May 2006
  #66
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studjo's Avatar
 

thanks for the pic - are there any more (if I dare to ask )

ok ok I'm a cheap ass but I won't buy the plugs or presets anyway but to have a look at those boosts and cuts is entertaining and educational



Jo
Old 28th May 2006
  #67
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I don't get the fuzz, I've been boosting high's and low's for 9dB's or more for years I'll do whatever works
Old 28th May 2006
  #68
Deleted bd1be4f
Guest
That's part of seeing what other successful engineers do is all about, sometimes it's a revelation, sometimes it's just a confirmation of what you've already been doing. But even if you only learn one new thing, it's worth it.

Will try to post more screenshots later.
Old 30th May 2006
  #69
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I think the "cut way more then you boost" EQ rule should go out the window in ITB mixing. Once I started boosting more and getting more creative in my EQing, my mixes came to life.
Old 30th May 2006
  #70
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djui5's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Methlab
I think the "cut way more then you boost" EQ rule should go out the window in ITB mixing. Once I started boosting more and getting more creative in my EQing, my mixes came to life.



That's an analog eq thing originally. Analog eq's impart less phase "issues" when cutting than when boosting...
Old 30th May 2006
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djui5
Analog eq's impart less phase "issues" when cutting than when boosting...

prove it


and anyway, who cares?

I've NEVER bought this "cutting is better" philosophy.
and philosophy, or religion, is all it is.
Old 30th May 2006
  #72
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djui5's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwittman
and anyway, who cares?

I've NEVER bought this "cutting is better" philosophy.
and philosophy, or religion, is all it is.

I don't

I never liked cutting either, unless a track needs it. I've mixed a couple songs only cutting eq, and didn't like the results at all....it just sounded funny to me.

To each his own as they say.
Old 30th May 2006
  #73
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if a track needs a lil 300 removed I'm not goona boost every surrounding freq to give the illusion that 300 is cut..
THIS is why eq's have CUT and BOOST on them
Old 30th May 2006
  #74
Registered User
 

Is the reason why cuts supposedly sound more natural because the phase distortion caused by the EQ is higher in the signal db wise when boosting, and lower in the overall signal while cutting? I've always wondered why this is so, and this is my best guess.
Old 31st May 2006
  #75
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rickrock305's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by superburtm
if a track needs a lil 300 removed I'm not goona boost every surrounding freq to give the illusion that 300 is cut..
THIS is why eq's have CUT and BOOST on them


CAPTAIN OBVIOUS!!!! lol, sorry i had to.



but noone addressed my question. I wonder how he was compensated, and what would your presets be worth to you if you were on his level?
Old 31st May 2006
  #76
Gear Addict
 

I give my "presets", and methods away to my assistants, interns, and friends all the time when I mix. Means nothing to me. I love helping people learn how to do new things that they may not have thought of. As to the cutting / boosting debate I long stopped worrying about such things, and just turn the knobs till my brain says "thats it". This is an art, not a science.
Old 3rd June 2006
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briefcasemanx
Is the reason why cuts supposedly sound more natural because the phase distortion caused by the EQ is higher in the signal db wise when boosting, and lower in the overall signal while cutting? I've always wondered why this is so, and this is my best guess.
Phase shift is usually directly related to the slope of the "curve" (higher q = more phase shift) though I guess if opamps in the EQ are working a little harder when boosting than cutting, that would make sense why there would be a little more phase shift but it wouldn't be capacitors or inductors at fault. And the difference would be subtle. I think that eq's with inductors like neves and pultecs have a bit more phase shift because they have the tendency to ring similar to what a transformer does. But who cares. Phase shift can sound good at times too. It's often tied to softening of the top end/transients like tape and transformers do. I don't see people reaching for their grace preamps on vocals much and those have almost no phase shift.
Old 1st July 2006
  #78
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PMoshay's Avatar
 

Not to start an arguement, but phase shift is a sound quality as well.

in fact, the waves Renesance DeEsser is phase coherent, the stock Waves DeEsser (original waves one) is not, but many times i have found that the Phase smearing is a more effective DeEsser.............

Science is Science - Art is Art.
If you're fixing something, it's science ....... if you're mixing something, its art.

Turn knobs until you get goosebumps.........
Old 14th July 2006
  #79
Registered User
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuntz
Phase shift is usually directly related to the slope of the "curve" (higher q = more phase shift) though I guess if opamps in the EQ are working a little harder when boosting than cutting, that would make sense why there would be a little more phase shift but it wouldn't be capacitors or inductors at fault. And the difference would be subtle. I think that eq's with inductors like neves and pultecs have a bit more phase shift because they have the tendency to ring similar to what a transformer does. But who cares. Phase shift can sound good at times too. It's often tied to softening of the top end/transients like tape and transformers do. I don't see people reaching for their grace preamps on vocals much and those have almost no phase shift.

When eq'ing, only the part of the signal that's being eq'ed is being effected as far as phase shift, not the entire signal, correct? If so, as would seem to be the case with your "higher Q" example(although i'm no engineer), then i'm saying that maybe people are hearing the phase shift more on boosts, because when boosting that part(the part that is being phase shifted) of the signal is getting louder. When cutting, the phase shifted part of the signal is getting quieter. So there's the same amount of phase shift either way, yet when cutting you can't hear it as much because it gets more lost in everything else instead of standing out.

Unless I have a fundamental misunderstand as far as how eq works, which is likely, then I was thinking this could be the reason why people say cuts sound "better" or have less phase anomalies.
Old 16th July 2006
  #80
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So I finally picked up the bundle and took a look at the presets.

Perhaps its just the way the SSL is designed (and I spent the last 6 months working on a 4000 G so I know quite a bit about all the routing possibilities) but on all his presets he always routes the eq into the dynamics section. And he always has the gate turned on even if its not opening or closing (just staying open on almost all presets).

I realize they are just presets but when studying them and tweaking, the presets sound pretty good just as they are, turning down the threshold on the compressor always helps the tracks breathe a little better

But what I wanted to know is...does he always use this method? Or is he running the audio through outboard compressors like the 1176s and Distressors before coming back into the console and hitting the eq? And the Gate, is there some special secret sound that one gets by allowing the audio to flow throuh the gate on an SSL like helping bring out transients or something?

Just some thoughts I had that maybe some of you could help me with. Because I've redone a couple of mixes with these plugs and tried the eq before compression instead of doing it the other way and my drums are now punchier then ever. Plus throwin the SSL buss comp helps too
Old 16th July 2006
  #81
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NeveMaster's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mixerguy
Spend some time dining in fine eateries in Europe, and you'll know what I mean.
heh
Mixer cool guy.... your an Idiot. why smear people. cool guy with great cool records. most likley ones that are flat bad anyways. Why dump on peoples day with your self loathing graches and poor excuse of reality. Many people people have major gold....ect. records . Now remember its not the gear as much as its the song so im almost sure you didnt get those great records with just your cool gear. LOOk Im a guy of classic sound and use both of two worlds .tutt you dont like it fine just dont put your wealth in front of it. Dont be an idiot.
Old 16th July 2006
  #82
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superburtm's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by djui5


That's an analog eq thing originally. Analog eq's impart less phase "issues" when cutting than when boosting...

not true at all. sorry dawg. heh
Old 16th July 2006
  #83
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absrec's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by djui5
That's an analog eq thing originally. Analog eq's impart less phase "issues" when cutting than when boosting...
I hear a big difference between cutting and boosting on McDsp Filter Bank eqs. They're supposed to be colorless and "phase-less" but I hear it big time.
Old 16th July 2006
  #84
Deleted bd1be4f
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by absrec
I hear a big difference between cutting and boosting on McDsp Filter Bank eqs. They're supposed to be colorless and "phase-less" but I hear it big time.
Unless the McDSP EQ's are billed as "linear phase", then yes, you may hear phase distortion. Only those EQ plugins that are linear phase EQ's won't introduce such artifacts
Old 16th July 2006
  #85
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickrock305
but noone addressed my question. I wonder how he was compensated, and what would your presets be worth to you if you were on his level?
I don't know what he really got out of it... but one thing for sure he is getting out of it is publicity... little things like that keep your name on every one's mind... also keeps re-inforcing your name as a top flight mixer... he'll have his face spashed on the waves website etc... and have all of us talking about him and not other top mixers...

I have gotten free stuff from companies in the past in exchange to doing an interview on their website for example... I did stuff like that not just for the free stuff but also for publicity...

I would be VERY surprise if he is getting an $$ out of it... then again these top tier mixers do ask for points so you never know

r.
Old 16th July 2006
  #86
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djui5's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by absrec
I hear a big difference between cutting and boosting on McDsp Filter Bank eqs. They're supposed to be colorless and "phase-less" but I hear it big time.


colorless my ass..

haha!
Old 22nd July 2006
  #87
Gear Nut
 

OK, so im new here, but after reading this thread i just wondered how many of you actually have these presets and can speak with any authority?
I got my hands on these very recently, and i have to say that they are extremely useful! The SSL bundle is one of the better sounding plugin collections, and if (like me) you have to rely on plugins because you cant afford expensive hardware, then this bundle, along with the CLA presets are well worth the investment.
The deep snare preset is pure genius, and coupled with a 2nd snare preset for the bottom mic, you can get that pure CLA drum punchines easily.
I just wanted to respond to one of the above posters and say that CLA uses compression before EQ on Bass, and EQ before compression on guitars...try it, it seems to work for him! This might not have been taken into account in his presets so you might need to do some tweaking.
The only misleading thing (if you can actually call it misleading) is that CLA uses manley EQs on pretty much everything, so the fact the presets have EQ settings at all is a little misleading, but i guess they have to!
Top 3 CLA presets: CLA Bass (soooo nice), CLA Deep Snare (huge sounding), CLA Acoustic 2 (sweet!).
Old 22nd July 2006
  #88
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T_R_S's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdjustice
Well for vocals I usually boost at 8kHz, but never as much as 9dB... I usually get good results....
The first rule in recording

" There are No Rules "
Old 22nd July 2006
  #89
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Plec's Avatar
 

Oh jolly good!!

So know you mean that I can take the deep snare preset and use it on any snare sound and it will sound like a "deep snare"??

Presets are just as stupid and pointless in audio production as knowing just a single guitar riff and expect it to work every where. Sure.. it's great for the newbies who doesn't know what a EQ does, or how a compressor works etc... But seriously, I didn't quite realize that there were actual engineers out there that used presets in actual production???

"Damn.. that kick needs som more juice dude. AHA, no fear.. I just remembered I must have a preset for that here somewhere that'll make it happen!"

"Hmm.. you said you wanted a bit more of that "crackin'-****in'-snare"-sound. Well man.. I actually just have the preset for "crackin'-snare". Oh ok.. it didn't sound "****in" enough.. hmm.. sorry dude.. I don't have the right preset for that then."

"What's this... "mastered & loud", cooool. Yeah.. that really DOES sound "Mastered & LOUD". Wow.. these presets are truly amazing in every aspect... whooooaa!!!!"

"Nu-Metal Crazetorsion! Duuuude... I just found the uuuuuuuultimate distorsion preset man! You gotta check it out! Cool dude.. you know what.. I BET if you apply that piece of ultimate stardom to a kick drum... It will sound juuuuuust like a nu-metal kick dude!! Yeaaaaaaah!!"

Oh.. yeah.. I just figured it out. These things doesn't come with presets in the analogue world. Hmm.. maybe... and I'm going out on a limb here.. just maaaaaaaaybe that's the reason why most "real" engineers use hardware!!!
Old 22nd July 2006
  #90
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noiseflaw's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plec
Oh jolly good!!

So know you mean that I can take the deep snare preset and use it on any snare sound and it will sound like a "deep snare"??

Presets are just as stupid and pointless in audio production as knowing just a single guitar riff and expect it to work every where. Sure.. it's great for the newbies who doesn't know what a EQ does, or how a compressor works etc... But seriously, I didn't quite realize that there were actual engineers out there that used presets in actual production???

"Damn.. that kick needs som more juice dude. AHA, no fear.. I just remembered I must have a preset for that here somewhere that'll make it happen!"

"Hmm.. you said you wanted a bit more of that "crackin'-****in'-snare"-sound. Well man.. I actually just have the preset for "crackin'-snare". Oh ok.. it didn't sound "****in" enough.. hmm.. sorry dude.. I don't have the right preset for that then."

"What's this... "mastered & loud", cooool. Yeah.. that really DOES sound "Mastered & LOUD". Wow.. these presets are truly amazing in every aspect... whooooaa!!!!"

"Nu-Metal Crazetorsion! Duuuude... I just dound the uuuuuuuultimate distorsion preset man! You gotta check it out! Cool dude.. you know what.. I BET if you apply that piece of ultimate stardom to a kick drum... It will sound juuuuuust like a nu-metal kick dude!! Yeaaaaaaah!!"

Oh.. yeah.. I just figured it out. These things doesn't come with presets in the analogue world. Hmm.. maybe... and I'm going out on a limb here.. just maaaaaaaaybe that's the reason why most "real" engineers use hardware!!!

lol! Oh man that's sooo harsh.

But it made me chuckle - Waynes World 'Audio Pre-Set' pack available from Waves,

No Way Dude!

Waaay!
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