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Liquid Notes - music intelligence
Old 24th January 2012
  #1
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Liquid Notes - music intelligence

LIQUID NOTES. A new way to work with musical arrangements!

Austrian based software company Re-Compose has just released their first product called "LIQUID NOTES". It provides a new approach to working with midi arrangements: After analyzing the midi song, every chord is represented by a "chord slider" and can be changed easily.



There are some tutorials online on YouTube:
LiquidNotesOfficial's Channel - YouTube

Check it out on Liquid Notes - Home.
Old 24th January 2012
  #2
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@3dsound

Thanx for sharing this new toy app and indeed it sounds really really interesting as you can use this to get new ideas chords changes, harmonies on the go while working or composing. Honestly, just by watching the vids in youtube, Great job to @liquidNotes

Will be downloading this software for sure
Old 24th January 2012
  #3
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interesting. trying today.
Old 24th January 2012
  #4
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Looks interesting!! I have to ask though...Who's doing the narration on the tutorial video??? She has the sexiest voice EVER!! Bonus Points : )
Old 24th January 2012
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biolumin3sc3nt View Post
Looks interesting!! I have to ask though...Who's doing the narration on the tutorial video??? She has the sexiest voice EVER!! Bonus Points : )
Hhahahahahahah Indeed she does ++ points there
Old 24th January 2012
  #6
Here for the gear
An interesting product for sure but for me, the price point is set way too high... Had it been somewhere between $70-$100 I might have been tempted to purchase.. but as it costs close to $250... Well, that is quite an investment to make for something that I might only use on occasion... and given that Logic itself, only costs $199 it seems overpriced to me!!

It is also worth noting that it requires an active internet connection to work as it uses an online server to do the harmonic analysis. Therefore, if you are somewhere without an internet connection, it won't work and... should the company not make it and close their servers... then you are left with software that will not function at all. (I know.. worse case scenario but I think it is worth pointing out none the less as it would not be the first company to go 'belly up' due to lack of interest / funds.. in the first year of business)

Last edited by Mag66; 24th January 2012 at 11:44 PM.. Reason: Updated info on use of internet
Old 25th January 2012
  #7
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acmusic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mag66 View Post
An interesting product for sure but for me, the price point is set way too high... Had it been somewhere between $70-$100 I might have been tempted to purchase.. but as it costs close to $250... Well, that is quite an investment to make for something that I might only use on occasion... and given that Logic itself, only costs $199 it seems overpriced to me!!

It is also worth noting that it requires an active internet connection to work as it uses an online server to do the harmonic analysis. Therefore, if you are somewhere without an internet connection, it won't work and... should the company not make it and close their servers... then you are left with software that will not function at all. (I know.. worse case scenario but I think it is worth pointing out none the less as it would not be the first company to go 'belly up' due to lack of interest / funds.. in the first year of business)
wow.that's a huge point regrading the servers. thanks for the heads-up
Old 25th January 2012
  #8
DSK
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Looks great!

Although I see the price reflects a bit of a niche?
Old 25th January 2012
  #9
DSK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mag66 View Post

It is also worth noting that it requires an active internet connection to work as it uses an online server to do the harmonic analysis. Therefore, if you are somewhere without an internet connection, it won't work and... should the company not make it and close their servers[...]
I didn't see any mention of this on their website or in the manual!?
Old 25th January 2012
  #10
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can anyone confirm this?
Old 25th January 2012
  #11
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Neat concept. Too pricey for me.
Old 25th January 2012
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mag66 View Post
An interesting product for sure but for me, the price point is set way too high... Had it been somewhere between $70-$100 I might have been tempted to purchase.. but as it costs close to $250... Well, that is quite an investment to make for something that I might only use on occasion... and given that Logic itself, only costs $199 it seems overpriced to me!!

It is also worth noting that it requires an active internet connection to work as it uses an online server to do the harmonic analysis. Therefore, if you are somewhere without an internet connection, it won't work and... should the company not make it and close their servers... then you are left with software that will not function at all. (I know.. worse case scenario but I think it is worth pointing out none the less as it would not be the first company to go 'belly up' due to lack of interest / funds.. in the first year of business)

i see no mention of the need for an internet connection...it's certainly not listed as a system requirement. Also, the fact that it can be used live makes that seem unlikely... where are you getting this info?

edit: seems i spoke too soon. - very surprising that a server is used - I assume this is for reasons of piracy prevention(?)...
Old 25th January 2012
  #13
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acmusic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr XY View Post
i see no mention of the need for an internet connection...it's certainly not listed as a system requirement. Also, the fact that it can be used live makes that seem unlikely... where are you getting this info?
there is an 'analysis' server preference in 'settings' and it does ask our Mac if it can connect to the internet but not sure if this would be live analysis or just updates
Old 25th January 2012
  #14
Here for the gear
See section 15 of the Manual...

"Under settings > analysis server you have to provide the correct user name and password which you received with the download of the program to connect with the analysis server of Liquid Notes. This is necessary to authenticate your individual copy of Liquid Notes for online harmony analyses".

Followed by....

"There is no need to change the URL field as it indicates the web address for the analysis server."

Finally on Page 20 (Part 5) of the manual...

"The harmony analysis takes place on an analysis server. To connect to this server you need to enter your registration information at Settings > Analysis Server (Note: Registration information will be emailed after purchase of the software or requesting a trial version)."


Can't be any clearer than that... No internet... No online analysis...

To test it yourself...Install the program, authenticate it via the internet and then disconnect your internet and you get a basically non functioning program (No harmony analysis is done..)
Old 25th January 2012
  #15
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acmusic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mag66 View Post
See section 15 of the Manual...

"Under settings > analysis server you have to provide the correct user name and password which you received with the download of the program to connect with the analysis server of Liquid Notes. This is necessary to authenticate your individual copy of Liquid Notes for online harmony analyses".

Followed by....

"There is no need to change the URL field as it indicates the web address for the analysis server."

Finally on Page 20 (Part 5) of the manual...

"The harmony analysis takes place on an analysis server. To connect to this server you need to enter your registration information at Settings > Analysis Server (Note: Registration information will be emailed after purchase of the software or requesting a trial version)."


Can't be any clearer than that... No internet... No online analysis...

To test it yourself...Install the program, authenticate it via the internet and then disconnect your internet and you get a basically non functioning program (No harmony analysis is done..)
thank you. yes, that is the case. well, h=guess that means slight risk to be had
Old 25th January 2012
  #16
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biolumin3sc3nt View Post
Looks interesting!! I have to ask though...Who's doing the narration on the tutorial video??? She has the sexiest voice EVER!! Bonus Points : )
We're happy you like her. She has a wonderful voice, and appreciates the feedback very much.
Old 25th January 2012
  #17
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mag66 View Post
An interesting product for sure but for me, the price point is set way too high... Had it been somewhere between $70-$100 I might have been tempted to purchase.. but as it costs close to $250... Well, that is quite an investment to make for something that I might only use on occasion... and given that Logic itself, only costs $199 it seems overpriced to me!!

It is also worth noting that it requires an active internet connection to work as it uses an online server to do the harmonic analysis. Therefore, if you are somewhere without an internet connection, it won't work and... should the company not make it and close their servers... then you are left with software that will not function at all. (I know.. worse case scenario but I think it is worth pointing out none the less as it would not be the first company to go 'belly up' due to lack of interest / funds.. in the first year of business)
@Mag66

We are operating out of Austria and do not have a sales representation registered in the US yet, which doesn't allow us to set prices in US Dollars. For the time being prices are based on Euros and thus are subject to the exchange rate when purchasing from overseas.
Note that Apple Logic Studio is $499, only the upgrade package from an earlier version is available for $199.

Liquid Notes requires an active Internet connection solely to perform an analysis of midi-files. Everything else (i.e. manipulations of chords, tensions, etc.) is done in the client that is delivered to you for installation on your desktop / laptop. We will add the information to our homepage to eliminate confusion. Sorry for that laps.

As a side note: Liquid Notes encapsulates powerful algorithms (that encompass the knowledge of generations of music composers from the Western world) for processing of the harmony analysis. Similar to Apple's Siri for the iPhone 4S we had to keep these intelligence on high-performance machines in the cloud, rather than giving it to the user for installation on the desktop. Thus, it is an issue related to performance much more than piracy.

You can download the trial version here: http://www.re-compose.com/download.html - Thanks!
Old 25th January 2012
  #18
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SKyflash34's Avatar
 

Looks interesting and I'm intrigued. Grabbing the demo now....
Old 25th January 2012
  #19
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LiquidNotes's Avatar
 

Hey 3dsound,

thank you for bringing up Liquid Notes here on GS. This is a good reason for us to join the forum and share some of our development infos with you:

Liquid Notes works with a very complex harmony analysis engine. We developed this engine in the past 4 years working with Classical Composers as well as DJs and Electronic Musicians to bring many different musical styles into the software. So there is huge knowledge about chord progressions and harmony management ranging from classical music to jazz or Dub / House / Goa etc. This is to make sure that Liquid Notes will work with whatever musical genre you are working in.

The software works as a standalone application using system-level midi connections to/from your favourite sequencer software. This will make routing a bit more complex to start with, but that's why we provide in-depth tutorial videos (including the sexy voice ) to help everyone get started easily.

Liquid Notes will route the MIDI data back to your sequencer, using all the Virtual Instruments that are in your arrangement. When you are satisfied with the results, save the midi data and re-import into the sequencer.

We are looking forward to your feedback here on the forum and will try to answer your posts regularly.

best regards from Austria,
The Liquid Notes Team


________________
Re-Compose GmbH
Liquid Notes - Home
Laudongasse 47/41, 1080 Vienna / Austria
220 E. 60 St., Suite 11J, New York 10022 / USA
Old 25th January 2012
  #20
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by bliquid25 View Post
@Mag66
Note that Apple Logic Studio is $499, only the upgrade package from an earlier version is available for $199.
Just to correct you.. as there is a lot of mis-information going around about the cost of Logic etc...

The FULL version of Logic Pro from the App Store is $199. It is not an upgrade....and there is no longer an upgrade from earlier Major versions of Logic to buy (Unless you happen to find older copies of the Full or Upgrade Box set that are lurking around a few places still). You do NOT need an earlier version installed. You can use the FULL version to upgrade an earlier version of course... and if you already have Logic V9 then the latest upgrades within that Version number, are free as always and are made available via the Software Update System.

The App store version of Logic is the full package with all the original instruments and FX plugins.. and with the Apple loop Library etc, available to download free from within Logic itself.

What is missing from the FULL App store package compared to the Studio Boxed set is Mainstage ($29 from the App Store) and the other extras such as Waveburner that you got with Logic Studio. However, it is pretty obvious that the major item that everyone wants and uses is Logic Pro itself.. and that has this newer distribution method and much lower pricing... (Similar to how Apple lowered the price for Final Cut)

It's always worth noting that you can install the App Store version of Logic on up to 5 computers at no extra cost... Just install from the App Store using your Apple ID and Password... just as you can do so, with any other App Store purchase such as Lion itself.. or any other App.

This is why I commented that I feel your pricing, even given the difference in exchange rates and even though I think the program itself, is interesting and could prove useful... is a little out of wack....

Finally, thank you for confirming the Internet requirement for your program. Maybe you should add that to the System requirements list so there is less confusion in the future?

Cheers..
Old 26th January 2012
  #21
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mag66 View Post
Just to correct you.. as there is a lot of mis-information going around about the cost of Logic etc...

The FULL version of Logic Pro from the App Store is $199. It is not an upgrade....and there is no longer an upgrade from earlier Major versions of Logic to buy (Unless you happen to find older copies of the Full or Upgrade Box set that are lurking around a few places still). You do NOT need an earlier version installed. You can use the FULL version to upgrade an earlier version of course... and if you already have Logic V9 then the latest upgrades within that Version number, are free as always and are made available via the Software Update System.

The App store version of Logic is the full package with all the original instruments and FX plugins.. and with the Apple loop Library etc, available to download free from within Logic itself.

What is missing from the FULL App store package compared to the Studio Boxed set is Mainstage ($29 from the App Store) and the other extras such as Waveburner that you got with Logic Studio. However, it is pretty obvious that the major item that everyone wants and uses is Logic Pro itself.. and that has this newer distribution method and much lower pricing... (Similar to how Apple lowered the price for Final Cut)

It's always worth noting that you can install the App Store version of Logic on up to 5 computers at no extra cost... Just install from the App Store using your Apple ID and Password... just as you can do so, with any other App Store purchase such as Lion itself.. or any other App.

This is why I commented that I feel your pricing, even given the difference in exchange rates and even though I think the program itself, is interesting and could prove useful... is a little out of wack....

Finally, thank you for confirming the Internet requirement for your program. Maybe you should add that to the System requirements list so there is less confusion in the future?

Cheers..
@Mag66

Thanks - indeed Apple has a strange price policy for Logic, which is somewhat confusing: $499 for the retail version (or via Apple's Online Store) vs $199 for the downloadable version (in the App Store). They can do that, for various reasons.

Liquid Notes is based on 4 years of extensive R&D into highly complex mathematical algorithms, these again building on some +10 years of academic research. And we won't stop there: What you see today is only a fraction of where we head to with our product. The next release is going to feature choosing from a set of basic chord and music templates to create new pieces from scratch or to get fresh ideas. We will also include more templates of various musical genres and styles continually.
These and more updates are included free of charge in the price of €199. We will explain some more details about our development roadmap here soon.

System requirements have been updated, and we will also highlight this better in the text.

cheers for all the info!
Old 26th January 2012
  #22
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mag66 View Post
An interesting product for sure but for me, the price point is set way too high... Had it been somewhere between $70-$100 I might have been tempted to purchase.. but as it costs close to $250... Well, that is quite an investment to make for something that I might only use on occasion... and given that Logic itself, only costs $199 it seems overpriced to me!!

It is also worth noting that it requires an active internet connection to work as it uses an online server to do the harmonic analysis. Therefore, if you are somewhere without an internet connection, it won't work and... should the company not make it and close their servers... then you are left with software that will not function at all. (I know.. worse case scenario but I think it is worth pointing out none the less as it would not be the first company to go 'belly up' due to lack of interest / funds.. in the first year of business)
We understand that a server being run in the cloud represents a significant risk to customers if the company goes 'belly up', and consequently shuts down their servers which would render our product useless.

This has been discussed internally before we launched the product: one of the measures we are implementing is to forge an agreement with the hosting company that allocates a pool of money outside our firm for maintenance and hosting of the servers. By this we ensure that for a defined period of time (about 3 years or more) our servers are guaranteed to be up and running, and taken care of. Expect an update of our end-user-license-agreement soon where this is stated.
Old 27th January 2012
  #23
Here for the gear
bliquid25,

First and foremost, thank you for the very quick response to my concerns regarding both the need for information relating to the use of the internet being posted up on your website and... the thought you have given to providing some form of guarantee of server use during the expected lifetime of the product.

Very reassuring responses to say the least.... and I feel, provides possible purchasers with a clear insight into the quality and integrity of your company!

Quote:
indeed Apple has a strange price policy for Logic, which is somewhat confusing: $499 for the retail version (or via Apple's Online Store) vs $199 for the downloadable version (in the App Store). They can do that, for various reasons.
Probably having more than 90 Billion Dollars in the bank... helps in regards to their pricing policy!

As soon as you have a US distribution set up, you can count on a purchase from me... based on your responses here..

Again... Thanks and keep up the good work!
Old 27th January 2012
  #24
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UnitedPulp's Avatar
 

nice!
Old 27th January 2012
  #25
Gear Head
 

Thanks to all of you here for the comments and questions!

We're bringing a retail version (packaged product) to the market soon as well, hope you will like it. And we'll work hard to speed up getting the US operations live, so you don't have to purchase in Euro and are subject to the exchange rate.
Old 27th January 2012
  #26
Lives for gear
Who is this product aimed at?

People who can't play instruments I suppose, or at least if they can play, they were very naughty at music school and skipped all their harmony classes!

tht
Old 27th January 2012
  #27
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thehightenor View Post
Who is this product aimed at?

People who can't play instruments I suppose, or at least if they can play, they were very naughty at music school and skipped all their harmony classes!

tht
The product (in its current state as a stand-alone software for desktop / laptop) is targeted at semi-professional and professional music composers, DJs, producers of film music and commercials, to name a few.
Amateurs can use it as well, though only with the enhancements described in post #21 they will find the added value they are looking for, as only then they will be able to create new pieces from scratch. That is not possible today, as one would have to use a sequencer which can be a bit complicated (and is an additional cost). These enhancements are going to be released in February, so pretty soon.

Liquid Notes does the work for you in getting the harmonic and compositorial structure right. So, those people whom you mentioned in your post have an assistant that helps them produce great results.
What it doesn't do is being a guarantee that a song will be a hit in the charts - for that there are other tools out there, it's not a topic we engage in.
Old 27th January 2012
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bliquid25 View Post
The product (in its current state as a stand-alone software for desktop / laptop) is targeted at semi-professional and professional music composers, DJs, producers of film music and commercials, to name a few.
Amateurs can use it as well, though only with the enhancements described in post #21 they will find the added value they are looking for, as only then they will be able to create new pieces from scratch. That is not possible today, as one would have to use a sequencer which can be a bit complicated (and is an additional cost). These enhancements are going to be released in February, so pretty soon.

Liquid Notes does the work for you in getting the harmonic and compositorial structure right. So, those people whom you mentioned in your post have an assistant that helps them produce great results.
What it doesn't do is being a guarantee that a song will be a hit in the charts - for that there are other tools out there, it's not a topic we engage in.
When you say it get's the harmonic and compositorial structure right - right in what way - wrong is sometimes right in composition!

There are so many harmonic devices in the composers tool kit.

* Tri-tone substitution
* X7b9 (fully dim) chromatic substitution
* Secondary Dominants and the Tri-Tone substitution of sec dom's
* Shifts
* Dominant Chains
* Sub-dominant chains
* Transient Modulation
* Pivot Chords
* Quartal Harmony

etc etc

How does your software handle and present these myriad possibilities of harmonic progression and substitution?

I'm interested to know how the concept works as an AI harmonic generator as opposed to the human application of harmonic devices.

Does the software attempt to work in jazz idioms for example?

If I had the chord progression for "Yesturday"

F - Em - A7 - Dm

would I be presented with

F - Em - Eb7 - Dm

As an option, where Eb7 is the TTS for the A7.

If yes, then indeed your software is very clever and potentially very useful.

Thanks
tht
Old 27th January 2012
  #29
Gear Head
 

Indeed, there is no right or wrong in composition. With Liquid Notes you remain the ruler of your musical universe. Its analysis process does not in any way meddle with the composition. The reharmonization function allows you to choose from a myriad of new possibilities, but you and your ears make the final decision.

To that end: When you attempt to change a chord you receive a set of new chords progressing from very likely as a substitute to pretty unusual. You can further change the chords by adding tension notes and so achieve very odd results, all of which will reflect in color codes from green to red.
But it doesn't stop there. Also the following chords in a harmonic progression will be affected by such a change and its position on the likely-unusual scale will shift according to the general listening expectation of it following its predecessor. By sliding down its controller to position 1 on the scale you achieve the most likely harmonic progression from the now rather unusual starting point of the predecessor chord. In theory this scheme can be applied to an endless row of chords.
So not only single chords can be changed into the "strangest" of sound experiences but also entire harmonic progressions, with the limits between right and wrong fading.

Now answering your questions:

Liquid Notes takes into account all of the listed features except quartal harmony. So far it structures chords in thirds.
The current version of Liquid Notes does not allow you to insert new chords besides the ones that are already there in the composition. So, no sec dom's before chords.
You can change any chord that's there in countless new ways. And adding chords can easily be managed in the sequencer.

But all these features are on our list to be implemented for future versions.

"Yesterday":
- A7 will be analyzed as the dominant of Dm.
- Outside of the Jazz domain the Eb7 chord sounds pretty odd at that position.
But if you turn off the function "Limit Available Harmonies" (which will provide you with a set of more regular substitutions, nevertheless from "very likely and simple" up to "strange and complex"), Eb7 will be available as a substitution for A7 from the original progression - labelled by color code as "very unlikely".
Old 27th January 2012
  #30
Lives for gear
Thank you for your excellent reply.

I like the concept of your software, it actually has educational potential, in the teaching of harmony and chord function.

Quartal harmony will be an excellent addition as this then gives rise to the possibilty of miracle chord voicings etc.

I dd smile at the idea of Eb7 being an "odd and unlikely chord" to substitue A7.
As Em to Eb7 to Dm is simple chromaticism in jazz ....

Will there be a demo? (sorry if that question has already been asked)


Best
tht
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