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Liquid Notes - music intelligence
Old 17th February 2012
  #91
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Cornvalley's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSK View Post
@Cornvalley

Then why do you need keys on a keyboard? Or fret on a guitar?

Why not play only the violin? Or better yet as the violin has tuned strings, just your perfectly tuned voice?

Without a proper vocabulary and proper ear training this will not take you anywhere.

You kinda miss the point of the software. It's not here to replace your compositional skills but to aid you.

If you feel threatened by this software you are then questioning your own skills.

You don't want to be an instrument's bitch how about putting the effort into building your own?

Yes I build instruments too but that was not really your point.
I do not see this as an aid. You do.
Moving sliders builds your esteem, building physical and mental dexterity to play and instrument/music builds mine.
Old 17th February 2012
  #92
DSK
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DSK's Avatar
To take my anecdote further:
Did you plant the tree from which you built that instrument?

Regarding my approach to this piece of SW:

I do not want it to build my esteem

I want it to aid me when I am stuck. When I do melodic stuff I like to do a lot of variations... this merely takes my compositions and suggests chords. That's it!

It does not make the song for me, it does not know what emotion I want.

It's my duty to put a nice composition inside it, and it's the SW's duty to suggest other variations based on that.

I think you made it clear from the first post that you play music to feel all "macho" about it.

Please then leave us "pussies" to use our "shameful" tools.
Old 17th February 2012
  #93
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acmusic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSK View Post
To take my anecdote further:
Did you plant the tree from which you built that instrument?

Regarding my approach to this piece of SW:

I do not want it to build my esteem

I want it to aid me when I am stuck. When I do melodic stuff I like to do a lot of variations... this merely takes my compositions and suggests chords. That's it!

It does not make the song for me, it does not know what emotion I want.

It's my duty to put a nice composition inside it, and it's the SW's duty to suggest other variations based on that.

I think you made it clear from the first post that you play music to feel all "macho" about it.

Please then leave us "pussies" to use our "shameful" tools.

well spoken. but I think the term was: "piece of softwares bitch".....but who's counting?
Old 17th February 2012
  #94
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Realtugs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornvalley View Post
Here's my tude dude.... Some activities build self esteem and others don't.
If I ever doubted that before, you have made it abundantly clear now. Clearly, conveying your opinion on an internet forum using the vocabulary and tone of an utter dick has done wonders for your self esteem. Good luck on that path.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornvalley View Post
You want to be a piece of softwares bitch...


I love software...just as I love hardware and instruments...be they acoustic, electric, electronic etc. But, we have a fundamental: They ain't no bitch of mine, I ain't no bitch of theirs. Its just better that way...none of us wind up spewing bile from our Cornhole like a mindless tosser.
Old 17th February 2012
  #95
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Realtugs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornvalley View Post
Here's my tude dude.... Some activities build self esteem and others don't. You want to be a piece of softwares bitch..?
Interesting. From your website...

"At the heart of the studio is the Yamaha C7 Disklavier piano. This is the latest generation Yamaha that can record every performance nuance and play it back exactly as originally performed. The beauty and efficiency of this is quickly demonstrated as a session progresses. Let's say you've given an absolutely stunning rendition or improv but hit a few notes with less than perfect timing (which is not necessarily a bad thing!) or wrong notes altogether. Since I record the data (all the physical moves you expressed minus the huffing and puffing) as well as the audio (that would be the huffing and puffing part), changes to the data and subsequent playback & record of that section involves only a minor amount of time without any added effort for the performer..."

Just curious here, but under such circumstances, would you tell your clients that you are of the opinion that they are in fact...being, "a piece of softwares (sic) bitch?" Or maybe you hold back...because they ARE paying, after all...and the fact that YOU are controlling the software, must mean in some twisted way, that the talent is actually YOUR bitch, too? Nut bar!

Macho Man - YouTube
Old 19th February 2012
  #96
Here for the gear
bliquid,

Any updates/further news on the US Launch?

Cheers..
Old 19th February 2012
  #97
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Entrainer's Avatar
 

EDIT: screw it, dude's trolling. Guitar player in midi land...
oldest trick in the book.


RE: Software

I think my computer can handle it. I'm not using a cloud.
I don't put my production computer online, ever, period.
It's just to important to risk getting any virus.

I'm really skeptical about the amount of power it takes to check a
standard midi file and pinpoint what key and chords are being used.
Especially multiplied by the amount of customers you want to cater
to world-wide. Melodyne can analyze chords of AUDIO on modern
computers.

Is there some form of Data Mining occurring on the side? What's
the value of collecting musicians across the world's ideas? Is this
addressed in your privacy policy?
Old 19th February 2012
  #98
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Entrainer View Post
Is there some form of Data Mining occurring on the side? What's
the value of collecting musicians across the world's ideas? Is this
addressed in your privacy policy?
First interesting question in this entire thread.
Old 19th February 2012
  #99
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Realtugs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Entrainer View Post
Is there some form of Data Mining occurring on the side? What's
the value of collecting musicians across the world's ideas? Is this
addressed in your privacy policy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by biomuse View Post
First interesting question in this entire thread.
Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Interesting question...I guess...? But... "Data Mining"? Really...through MIDI files?

I can't figure it all out yet (and may never ), but I don't buy the whole "processing" bollocks, though. I code and use R and Ruby for some "out there" things that I get up to, but neither really require ultra-modern horse power (no matter what they're told to get up to)...so I don't quite get this angle. Watching closely to see where it winds up...but I just don't get it.

Cool looking tool, though.

Data-mining is certainly NOT high on my potential result list, though. I believe it is merely copy-protection.
Old 19th February 2012
  #100
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Realtugs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GS mod
Dear Realtugs,

You have received a warning at Gearslutz.com.

Reason:
-------
Insulted Other Member(s)


-------

Original Post:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-p...ml#post7580757
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Entrainer View Post
EDIT: screw it, dude's trolling. Guitar player in midi land...
oldest trick in the book.


RE: Software

Had a reply all typed out...pre-edit.

Troll indeed...donkey! I notice he's removed his web/studio site from his profile, too. Should have just apologized for being a dick.
Warnings serve as a reminder to you of the forum's rules, which you are expected to understand and follow.

All the best,
Gearslutz.com
Uh. OK. Thanks for the heads up!

Might want to check your link, though...not sure who I insulted in your quote?
Old 19th February 2012
  #101
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acmusic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornvalley View Post
Sounds pitiful. Hoped you learned something.
this is the statement that started all the hate. It was obviously bad enough for CornValley to immediately change his avatar from a portrait to the present one.
We personally asked Swedrian for more videos and this quote was the response to the video's poster/maker. We felt quite a bit of angst when Cornvalley made this statement in response to something someone else was kind enough to make for all of us to enjoy. In addition, this first statement isn't even directed at the product, Liquid Notes, but at an independent forum member.
Anyone that builds an organic instrument such as guitar and uses the word 'bitch' in the context that it was said is an insult to everyone that makes and plays music-organic and otherwise.
A public apology from CornValley on this thread would smooth alot of feathers. Its great to read other threads on GS that get resolved that way.

whatduya say, CornValley?
Old 19th February 2012
  #102
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Realtugs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BodyByStarbucks View Post
whatduya say, CornValley?
No way back (for him)...a jerk like that is just a jerk*. My guess?

A l c o h o l

*Jerk? Thanks a lot GS Moderator[(WS)s]...I feel like I'm in the 80's!
Old 19th February 2012
  #103
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realtugs View Post
Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Interesting question...I guess...? But... "Data Mining"? Really...through MIDI files?
Data mining through comparison via statistical pattern analysis of many, many thousands of midi files. "Horsepower" would not be the point; a central hub through which all data passes would be the point.

I don't know how likely this is either. But it's definitely a question worth asking, for several reasons.
Old 19th February 2012
  #104
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Realtugs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by biomuse View Post
Data mining through comparison via statistical pattern analysis of many, many thousands of midi files. "Horsepower" would not be the point; a central hub through which all data passes would be the point.

I don't know how likely this is either. But it's definitely a question worth asking, for several reasons.
Mate,

I'm always the first one to spot a "dick" (and get busted for it) in the crowd...but the last one to see google, apple, or facebook coming. If this **** is playing along any of those lines...please smack me...rapido...and right between the eyes.

If this company has any interest in this sort of behaviour..? Shame on you...and all of your bitches from above. (<--corporate)

I still don't believe it, though Concentrated MIDI analysis is going to amount to, what? A hit song? Behringers' next something, something? This is the point where I need a straight-up "box" in the face. Hit me!
Old 19th February 2012
  #105
Gear interested
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornvalley View Post
Sounds pitiful. Hoped you learned something.
The way I see it: Words are just words and in this case it is best to treat it like hot air. Im totally open to criticism. I don't even have anything against the wording ( yes, it is harsh but if he backs it up, cool thing) but Cornvalley, you did not back it up with anything. unfortunately...

No argument on how I can do better, what you're opinion really is and worst of all (which would have left an impression on me), no link or file attachment where you show me how, in your opinion, it is supposed to be done and sound.

Take the ave maria from Bach/Gounod, do it your way and show me- I will gladly debate on that basis. But only two sentences focusing on how pitiful my video is does not help me to become better in anyway.

And I guess that you want the music world and its participants to become better, right? Thats alright with me. Im on the same page. Lets exchange files and valid arguments!

Better yet, let's stop talking about it and focus on the actual topic of this threat: Liquid Notes: what can and can't it do with this SW? What can I use it for? Is it worth buying? etc.
Old 19th February 2012
  #106
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clonewar's Avatar
 

LN is a very interesting concept, especially the layout of the chord sliders along a normal DAW timeline.

As far as the price goes, I don't think it's too high. Most UAD/Brainworx/Softube/etc plugins that come out now are around the same price, and I'll bet there's more time and R&D spent on LN than on the next EQ plugin.

That said, I would buy this as soon as it was officially available from the US distributor, but I won't be buying it because of the requirement to be online to use the software. I don't keep my DAW online, and having to sneaker-net midi files back and forth between my laptop and DAW is a horrible workaround. Not to mention that I don't have the greatest internet service and that I won't be able to use the software if my connection is down (which happens more than I'd like).

I really hope Re-Compose reconsiders the online requirement. Why not make processing in the cloud optional for those with computers that aren't fast enough to process the algorithm? Otherwise, it seems like there's more to the cloud than just offloading the processing. Etrainer hit on a good point, maybe it's just adding all of the analyzed midi data to it's data store? Or maybe it's a trade secret situation and they're trying to protect the algorithm itself, as opposed to just protecting the software from piracy..

Also, you can't compare LN to Siri and Shazam.. Those are apps that run on devices which are inherently always connected to the internet. That's a much different platform than a studio DAW.
Old 19th February 2012
  #107
Here for the gear
clonewar,

While I appreciate your suggestion that the 'cloud' processing could be optional, the reality is far more likely that it is part of the over all 'anti piracy' measures taken to protect their software.

I have no issue with them employing such a method (given they also stated they would guarantee server up time for a minimum of 3 years) so long as they make it plainly obvious in the requirements (which they then did so after bringing this point up) but to state that the use of an online server to process the data is *only* because of a lack of horsepower, is probably a little disingenuous of them... If I were in the same situation as themselves with how Piracy can quickly eat up a lot of your profits then I too, would probably look at some online element to be incorporated to protect my copyright and limit such piracy.

The reality is that as time passes, we are, and will be made to become, more and more dependent on online access for a variety of reasons.. cloud servers being one such example.

I cannot see any reasonable possibility they are using online servers to data mine.. There are far easier ways of obtaining such info and inspiration... I know a little skepticism and paranoia can be a healthy thing at times.. but let's not take it too far!

Just my thoughts.. yours and others may differ!
Old 19th February 2012
  #108
Lives for gear
 
Entrainer's Avatar
 

I'm not following that trend. I'm old school. No Facebook. You want known accomplices,
do some footwork flatfoot.

I don't really care if they ARE data mining or not. Production computer doesn't go online.
And you know what, most professional post-houses are the same way. Anti-virus
software notoriously jacks with AV software's performance. When I was cutting daily
professionally, I had to literally fight off IT from sneaking in and jacking with my editing
machine. It just wouldn't work. Production shut down and deadlines suffered when they
placed my machine on the network with anti-virus software. Those who have used
AVID know what I'm talking about.

Doing music to picture? I doubt you are risking putting your machine online.

So until this thing becomes available offline, personally, on my machine, I'm a customer
lost. At some point they will need to evaluate the cost of losing potential customers
vs. the financial advantages of running a cloud. How many people around the world have
premium access at all times? Less than have capable computers for certain. And SIRI,
well... it's a freaking phone. It doesn't work without access. Workstations do.

And I'm anti-piracy, buy what I use. But I'm pro privacy and being able to choose how
I use something. I prefer that we are all one, connected in a metaphysical sense.
Human Centipede, not-so-much.
Old 19th February 2012
  #109
Gear interested
 
ReCoTopDog's Avatar
 

offline vs. online

Hi everyone,
This is the company's CEO and Head of Development again. Thanks to every one of you for your support and active engagement in this thread.

First things first: there'll be no data mining. We do not store any personal data (except data for you to obtain your license when you purchase LN--which in most cases will just be your email address). The analysis routines will rake through your MIDIs but not save them. That means if you run into problems with a file you will have to forward it to us for further support with it.

We (bliquid25) posted some info about our reasons for taking our analysis algorithms into the cloud about 2 weeks ago. It reads as follows:

---
"Our goal with putting the harmony analysis in the cloud is delivering a solution to the customer that simply works and offers the least risk of causing troubles with the local installation on your machine. It's a risk reduction, and that's what I meant by "Apple does the very same"; they always had a policy of making hardware and software in one encapsulated piece, ensuring things really work.

Running the harmony analysis in the cloud has the major advantage of what I called a "controlled environment" - i.e. hardware+software that we control. By this we make sure that our fairly complex algorithms perform fast and without error, can be scaled easily to customer needs, and in case of error a fix can be applied in no time without asking you to update the software on your machine.

Processing power is not an issue for us in the cloud as we set up the system in the optimal way for the best performance. We cannot do this equally well with a user's machine, and part of the reason is in the hardware / software configuration of those machines that causes differences in performance: there is a myriad of possibilities ranging from different operating systems that are supported with Liquid Notes (Win, Mac, Linux) that run on a near infinite number of hardware variants (processor, hard disks, etc.) for laptops and desktops of different manufacturers. This can result in considerable differences in performance, in particular if one takes into account that we are selling to a global audience where not everyone is running the latest hardware on the computer market.
Putting things in the cloud thus is a way of us protecting from issues related to a user's computer, be it related to processing power or some configuration issues or else. So, you are right when saying it is not related to processing power only."
---

We thought about the online issue for quite some time, and then thought about it again. We know the music industry well and we're aware of the fact that many studios (especially high-profile ones) don't take their production computers online, especially in the film music business. And we completely understand that.
But for a company as little as ours the risk of going offline would be too high. We know from experience and from extensive tests that there are lots of things that can go wrong with such complex algorithms as ours. They need constant care and maintenance. For distributed open offline versions we'd also need huge resources for customer support which at present we simply can't afford. Most people aren't aware of the risks involved.
So for the time being we believe it'd be unwise to change our approach.

Let me at this point say thank you to those who've already purchased Liquid Notes!
We are happy about it and we'll do everything in our power to keep you happy with our software.

Best,
Stefan
Old 19th February 2012
  #110
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acmusic's Avatar
 

thank you
Old 20th February 2012
  #111
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wakestyle's Avatar
so, I just wanted to say this is a really cool program and easy to use too.
Old 20th February 2012
  #112
Gear interested
 

@ReCoTopDog:
Thanks for explaining!
Old 20th February 2012
  #113
I was very judgmental about this whole idea but that is because I am a very skilled keyboard player and changing harmonies is not a problem and in fact is one of the joys of my life. That said I see no reason why someone with less developed skill but with similar or even greater creativity could not find a use for this item. In fact, I would imagine someone will stumble across an unintended use like the famous Auto-Tune vocal effects.

And if the company making this is actually some honest folks trying to make an innovative product and a few bucks, I hope it happens. I am not optimistic on this but who knows, I may change my mind, buy it and discover a new effect that everyone must use...or not.....
Old 20th February 2012
  #114
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ionian's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post
I was very judgmental about this whole idea but that is because I am a very skilled keyboard player and changing harmonies is not a problem and in fact is one of the joys of my life.
As a very skilled keyboard player myself who used to often re-harmonize on the fly as I was playing, I came to realize that most keyboard players reharmonize way too much and most destroy the original intent of the songs. I've cut down my reharms and do enjoy sticking closer to the original composer's intentions these days as I'm sure they don't appreciate me adding myself as a co-composer! heh

Regards,
Frank
Old 20th February 2012
  #115
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Entrainer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReCoTopDog View Post
Best,
Stefan
Hey, thanks for the reply. Fair enough, wish you all the best with your
venture.
Old 20th February 2012
  #116
Gear interested
 
ReCoTopDog's Avatar
 

US launch ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mag66 View Post
bliquid,

Any updates/further news on the US Launch?

Cheers..
Hi Mag66,

Thanks for your interest.

We're working on the US launch, taking it very seriously.
I can't pinpoint a date yet but it'll happen ASAP.

Anyone interested please register for our newsletter at Newsletter to be the first to receive updates on this topic.

Cheers,
Stefan
Old 20th February 2012
  #117
Gear Addict
 

Thanks for the assurance and explanation. It's an interesting and quite forward-looking product, for sure.
Old 21st February 2012
  #118
Gear interested
 
ReCoTopDog's Avatar
 

Update Announcement: Version 1.1 Extended

Hi fellow GS members,

Thanks for all the posts and feedback on Liquid Notes so far, we've been really enjoying the discussion. Today I'm very happy to announce the first update of Liquid Notes and I'd like to introduce to you our first featured artist we could win over for the project.

With Liquid Notes you can dive into the intricate world of complex harmony, fast and easy. It lets you build up and reshape the harmonic landscape of your composition effortlessly, adding musical intelligence to your preferred sequencer:

- Substitute chords for a nonstandard listening experience.
- Add more color by more chord tension.
- Change chord functions to keep the piece exciting throughout.
- Design captivating chord progressions and cadences.
- Create polyphonic melody lines or improvise live to your piece.

Here is a list of new features of Liquid Notes Version 1.1 Extended:

- Manipulation of chord functions (*)
- Music templates for "quick start" (**)
- Support of Windows 7 64-bit
- Loading of very lengthy MIDI files now possible (depending on your computer's memory capacity)
- Trial version extended to 30-day period, no more restrictions in saving & exporting
- Minor bugs fixed

(*) Change chord functions.

Changing chord functions results in an entirely new set of possible chord substitutions. Functions influence the “deep nature” of chord progressions and their alteration will in most instances cause a distinct contrast between different harmonies and will intensify their perceived impact. The chord functions are divided into the three basic functions of tonic, subdominant and dominant, indicated on the interface with T, S, and D. (We've actually activated the buttons which you can see on the GUI displayed in the starter message of this thread, in the now logical order of T-S-D instead of T-D-S.) Every function will lead to an entirely new set of chord substitutions and thus expand the ramifications of possibilities.

(**) Get started with ease and create ideas immediately using music templates.

You may now choose between basic music templates of various styles directly out of Liquid Notes (i.e. chord progressions, simple arrangements, or arpeggios). They will allow you to create harmonic ideas and compose more complex harmonic progressions for further use in a broader musical context. We will keep extending this list of templates continually.


The update is free for users who purchased a standard license of Liquid Notes. Find the file for your operating system in section 'Software' of our support page: Liquid Notes - Support.

You may also download a trial version here: Liquid Notes - Download.


Here is more about our first featured artist:

Karl Moestl (karl.moestl.) is one of Austria's Top DJs, with a long track record of successful electronic music productions. He is a master of electronic fusion and, throughout his career, has been receiving great feedback and reviews worldwide from magazines, artists, and many more. Check out his website!


And just as a little side note: You know "swedrian" from GS already. He was quite active producing videos on how to use Liquid Notes. We liked them so much that we asked him if we may use them for our PR. He agreed and so you'll be able to access them via our website shortly.


The press release is to follow soon, you'll be able to download it from our website: Liquid Notes - Press.

We hope you like what we do. Please feel free to get in touch with us at any time at support@re-compose.com with questions or comments. We'd love to hear from you!

Thanks and all my best,
Stefan
Old 23rd February 2012
  #119
I'm having troubles trying to download the trial version. I fill in the asked info, but the email I got in response has no link at all, just confirm a mailing subscription.
Old 23rd February 2012
  #120
Gear Addict
 

This is a great product, let me know when u are offline and I will buy in heartbeat
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