Steven Slate debuts The RAVEN X1 Production Console - Page 15 - Gearslutz.com
Steven Slate debuts The RAVEN X1 Production Console
Old 16th February 2012
  #421
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioSoundzz View Post
Steven, I will not question your personal opinion that the VCC is the exact same as the real recording console. My extensive tests with a Trident console show different results but I do not use a console only for summing tracks - don't think anyone does. 99% of my outboard gear has NO equivalent in the plug-in world. I have 4 stereo tube pre-amps (soon to be 6) and 2 stereo tube compressors and 2 stereo tube eq units that I side chain using the Trident. I hit some of them very hard level wise; the Sebatron Axis peaks at over +20db. Some tube units are chained to be 2 units which together creates 8 active tubes which equal 16 tubes elements used for just one stereo send and resulting return. The results I am getting are off the map great and unique and musical sounding and no plug comes close to emulating (and I have invested in a lot). This is why I am a very devoted hybrid guy and see no end in sight. Granted I am exotic in my approach but it works wonders for me and is easy to set up with traditional tools. It looks like your design may allow (maybe as an option) for some outboard gear which would make us hybrid guys happier and leave some wiggle room for all the great analog gear out there that digital does not do as well or even not at all
You can actually get great saturation results by slamming the VCC buss models. Not sure how it compare to the real thing, but it gives the track an overall sonic vibe which is dynamic. VCC helps the mix come alive vs clean ITB summing which we all know sounds pretty limp.

Having said that, I bet your setup sounds fvking incredible.

Do you have any audio you can link to? I would love to hear it.

(I tube things up a bit with a TC Rooster into a Drawmer 68me, so I probably have only a small glimmer of what is possible in this regard)..

Old 16th February 2012
  #422
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Quote:
You can actually get great saturation results by slamming the VCC buss models. Not sure how it compare to the real thing, but it gives the track an overall sonic vibe which is dynamic. VCC helps the mix come alive vs clean ITB summing which we all know sounds pretty limp.

Having said that, I bet your setup sounds fvking incredible.

Do you have any audio you can link to? I would love to hear it.

(I tube things up a bit with a TC Rooster into a Drawmer 68me, so I probably have only a small glimmer of what is possible in this regard)..
Yes - I use the VCC as well for some projects and am aware of saturating it which is a much different sound than what I am doing with tubes. I would rather not hijack this thread with my sound samples but I am considering doing a new thread discussing hybrid recording techniques with just that... Good suggestion.
Old 16th February 2012
  #423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioSoundzz View Post
Yes - I use the VCC as well for some projects and am aware of saturating it which is a much different sound than what I am doing with tubes. I would rather not hijack this thread with my sound samples but I am considering doing a new thread discussing hybrid recording techniques with just that... Good suggestion.
I'll keep an eye out for that thread.
Old 16th February 2012
  #424
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Steve

I'll say i can't wait for this thing. I'm pumped to get this thing. I'm selling my console at the moment so i can get it sooner rather than later.

If you have and i'm assuming you would take on board suggestions that have been put forward then this thing is going to be crazy!

To the critics.... I understand the reluctance to move forward but you know why drive a 67 mustang just cause its a classic and looks cool when you can get behind a new vette or similar! Still looks awesome, still sounds awesome but you have all the mod cons including a/c, cruise etc. It is exciting being part of the audio engineering revolution we are going through.

Thanks for the loan of .02c

Cheers JR
Old 17th February 2012
  #425
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[QUOTE=Steven Slate;7569990]Hi Yuri. I didn't actually say the VCC is a close replacement to an analog desk.. I said it is a flat out total replacement. At least in terms of sonics. Frankly, I've done too many blind A/B sessions of the VCC verse the real consoles with too many pros for this to even be a debate any more, at least to me. I sound like a broken record here, but time and time again, people are unable to pick the real desks from the emulation during a properly calibrated blind test. Everyone can always identify the ITB mix without the emulation. And now that even classic albums like the Beach Boys "SMILE" were mixed in the box with the VCC, I was hoping we could put this whole "I need a console because of the sound" thing to rest.

I'll make you or anyone else the same offer I made Jim Williams.. if you can pick out the console sum from the ITB/VCC sum on three or four different mixes, I'll make you the new owner of the Slate companies. Should be easy right? Because the emulations aren't even close? Because if you think I'm misleading, I'd like the chance to prove you wrong. As you said, I'm a passionate guy about this stuff and I'll stand behind what I say.


Thanks Steven for the kind offer. I am not a betting man and would like you to keep your company. So I will decline.
However:
I can ask one of our artists to allow me to give you a mix of a song done on our SSL or a Tonelux/API hybrid. If you have the multitracks or stems I wonder if you can match the sonics and the feel of the "old and outdated" console with your plugins. It would be a learning experience for me and my engineers..
You can finetune anything to be indistinguishable. That proves nothing. Try matching analogue with your plugins - maybe we can learn something.
Old 17th February 2012
  #426
Slate Pro Audio / Slate Digital
 
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Thread Starter
Yuri where are you located? If you're near one of the stops of our spring promo tour, then how about I stop by, zero out your SSL with some proper calibration tools, run a 32 channel mix from the DAW, then sum the same mix in the DAW using the VCC Brit 4K? Because without proper calibration, even a .3db difference in say, a kick drum channel, will make the test unfair.

Once we sum the mixes, I'll then chop the song up into four pieces and then we'll see if you can clearly point out which is the console and which is the ITB/VCC. SPOILER ALERT: You won't be able to

That is.. unless there is something really funky with your SSL. But I can already tell that you are the kind of guy who is meticulous about your gear so I bet it is in top condition, and therefore a good test.

EDIT: I just saw the Australia under your name.. that won't be on my spring tour but I'll get their soon enough.


Cheers,
Steven
Old 17th February 2012
  #427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Slate View Post
Yuri where are you located? If you're near one of the stops of our spring promo tour, then how about I stop by, zero out your SSL with some proper calibration tools, run a 32 channel mix from the DAW, then sum the same mix in the DAW using the VCC Brit 4K? Because without proper calibration, even a .3db difference in say, a kick drum channel, will make the test unfair.

Once we sum the mixes, I'll then chop the song up into four pieces and then we'll see if you can clearly point out which is the console and which is the ITB/VCC. SPOILER ALERT: You won't be able to

That is.. unless there is something really funky with your SSL. But I can already tell that you are the kind of guy who is meticulous about your so I bet it is in top condition, and therefore a good test.

EDIT: I just saw the Australia under your name.. that won't be on my spring tour but I'll get their soon enough.


Cheers,
Steven
Steven
Unfortunately we are in Melbourne, Australia. You are always welcome to come buy though, we have a great studio, lots of toys best coffee (and cake) and french cogniac and russian vodka for the special guests (which seems to include every client so far - hmmmm).
Our ssl is pretty good, no mods and the cap replacements and such are as close to the oiginal as possible. The plasmas misbehave sometimes but dont they always :-).
Again would love to see you here and see if you can prove us wrong
Best,
Yury
Old 17th February 2012
  #428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Slate View Post
Yuri where are you located? If you're near one of the stops of our spring promo tour, then how about I stop by, zero out your SSL with some proper calibration tools, run a 32 channel mix from the DAW, then sum the same mix in the DAW using the VCC Brit 4K? Because without proper calibration, even a .3db difference in say, a kick drum channel, will make the test unfair.

Once we sum the mixes, I'll then chop the song up into four pieces and then we'll see if you can clearly point out which is the console and which is the ITB/VCC. SPOILER ALERT: You won't be able to

That is.. unless there is something really funky with your SSL. But I can already tell that you are the kind of guy who is meticulous about your gear so I bet it is in top condition, and therefore a good test.

EDIT: I just saw the Australia under your name.. that won't be on my spring tour but I'll get their soon enough.


Cheers,
Steven
WRT this methodology - we use our SSL more then just a summing mixer. We overdrive input stages, use dynamics and eq sections and funny routing which all contributes to the experience. So something has to be done to take that into account. This will illustrate diffrences in behaviour which i doubt you will be able to replicate with plugins

Best,
Yury
Old 17th February 2012
  #429
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Quote:
WRT this methodology - we use our SSL more then just a summing mixer. We overdrive input stages, use dynamics and eq sections and funny routing which all contributes to the experience. So something has to be done to take that into account. This will illustrate diffrences in behaviour which i doubt you will be able to replicate with plugins
Definitely agree with Yury on this one. The mojo you get from an SSL or any console for that matter is how you drive the console as a whole by using its EQs, Dyn, busses...etc. Simply summing 16-32 or whatever channels from a daw into a console does not show the true sound signature of the console at all.
Old 17th February 2012
  #430
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Thread Starter
We modeled the consoles DEEP into distortion, far more than anyone would actually drive them.

Therefore, you can drive the VCC channels and especially mixbuss and get a very authentic sounding saturation as per the desk that it is modeling.

For most rock productions, I drive the VCC 4k so that the mixbuss meter is completely pinned, and I soak up the extra output gain into a mixbuss compressor. It sounds amazing that way.

Same for Brit N Discrete.. I really slam it and get a lot of attitude and low end bigness.

Anyway, I'll hopefully have some more Raven news soon. We're working hard on it each day.

Steven
Old 18th February 2012
  #431
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OMG!
Slate says his plugins is JUST AS GOOD as any analog console.
Dudes, this is getting just stupid..
He is even arrogant about it.

Incredible..

I am laughing way to hard now
Old 18th February 2012
  #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Vulture View Post
I hate myself and wanna die!!!
Sorry that didn't work out for you. But...if at first you don't succeed...try and try again!

If losing were winning...dayum would Charlie Sheen be jealous of you.


I know, I know...don't feed the trolls. I'm sure this fool will be put on his way soon enough. Then we can spot him again when he comes back in his new form...again.
Old 18th February 2012
  #433
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Fortunately the golden rule of business my father taught me at a very young age "may the buyer beware" is echoing in my head. My heart and support for the Slate products has been there for some time, but flat out saying that the VCC replaces analog consoles with such a strong tone for me is a turn off. I am a strong believer in a product selling itself. I use the VCC and a real console and for me the VCC improves some of problems with digital but it is a far far cry from replacing analog. Unfortunately it is starting to seem like I am being talked down to and even yelled at by Mr. Slate with his opinion simply being the gospel truth and anyone who thinks otherwise is backwards, living in the past or simply stupid. I am not sure who this appeals to but I would not think industry professionals. I would like to humbly request some respect for your customers who can make their own decisions regarding the sound they like and the work flow that works best for them. For me a digital mix and analog mix sound different for so many more reason then simply VCC emulation summing it is a mute and futile argument to hang the death of analog on. Although I am forward thinking, their are industry tradition and standards for recording that have proven results. Imo, no one such invention will change anything overnight or maybe much at all, even more-so when it is being crammed down our collective throats.
Old 18th February 2012
  #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Realtugs View Post
Sorry that didn't work out for you. But...if at first you don't succeed...try and try again!

If losing were winning...dayum would Charlie Sheen be jealous of you.


I know, I know...don't feed the trolls. I'm sure this fool will be put on his way soon enough. Then we can spot him again when he comes back in his new form...again.
Thank you.

I just believe hardware is somewhat superior still.
Slate shows some strange stuff in opinions.

As I said.
We`ll see...
Old 18th February 2012
  #435
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Old 18th February 2012
  #436
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Thread Starter
Is it that odd to think that in 2012, we don't have the power and brains to recreate what an analog circuit is doing? Because we can. I've heard it. Today again, we did an A/B of a famous 2" 16 track tape machine and a plugin we are just completing that intends to emulate it's sound. And again, not one single person in the room, including Howie Weinberg, a mastering engineer with superman style ears and more platinum records than anyone I know, could firmly tell the real from the digital.

So yes, I'm arrogant in what I say. Because I've done a scientific test to prove it. And so I've proved it to my own ears, I've proven it to other professionals that I respect, and in the end.. I know that when I mix ITB using the emulations, the results are amazing.

I'm sorry AudioSoundzz if you think I'm demeaning you.. I can promise you that it's not my intentions.

But I'm not going to keep my mouth closed when there are still claims that nothing in the world can replace an analog signal path in terms of its sonic results. Because it's just not true anymore. And I'm not going to pretend its blasphemy to say that we can have the sound of analog recreated by digital algorithms. If you don't agree, that's fine. But I don't think it merits such controversy.

I've proven it at this very forum by posting blind A/B files, and it seems like I"ll have to do it again to drive the point home. If an analog desk clearly sounds better than ITB using console emulation, then it'll be easy to identify.

This industry is moving along with the digital revolution. You can either deny it, or make it work for you.. and you might find the results even better.

Cheers,
Steven
Old 18th February 2012
  #437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioSoundzz View Post
Fortunately the golden rule of business my father taught me at a very young age "may the buyer beware" is echoing in my head. My heart and support for the Slate products has been there for some time, but flat out saying that the VCC replaces analog consoles with such a strong tone for me is a turn off. I am a strong believer in a product selling itself. I use the VCC and a real console and for me the VCC improves some of problems with digital but it is a far far cry from replacing analog. Unfortunately it is starting to seem like I am being talked down to and even yelled at by Mr. Slate with his opinion simply being the gospel truth and anyone who thinks otherwise is backwards, living in the past or simply stupid. I am not sure who this appeals to but I would not think industry professionals. I would like to humbly request some respect for your customers who can make their own decisions regarding the sound they like and the work flow that works best for them. For me a digital mix and analog mix sound different for so many more reason then simply VCC emulation summing it is a mute and futile argument to hang the death of analog on. Although I am forward thinking, their are industry tradition and standards for recording that have proven results. Imo, no one such invention will change anything overnight or maybe much at all, even more-so when it is being crammed down our collective throats.
Boohoo!!! Cry me a river.

Have fun living in the past!
Old 18th February 2012
  #438
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Quote:
I've proven it at this very forum by posting blind A/B files, and it seems like I"ll have to do it again to drive the point home. If an analog desk clearly sounds better than ITB using console emulation, then it'll be easy to identify.

This industry is moving along with the digital revolution. You can either deny it, or make it work for you.. and you might find the results even better.
First of all imo you proved it to yourself and no one else (and you have reasons to be bias so it gives me pause). I think to get into a digital vs analog argument is not needed and a waste of energy. I use both together and their is a synergy in that which works for me. I like real knobs - navigating on a ipad is a pain on the fingers and eyes. Most people will agree after working 10 hours on one imo. Digital eq and compressors sound different than analog ones. The VCC Trident sounds different than my Trident. I have analog gear with NO plug equivalents. The list goes on and on so at the end of the day I will work hybrid as I can pick and choose the best tools for each song while people stuck in their only digital dogma or analog dogma are more limited. To me "forward thinking" is to be hybrid and not in a digital or analog dogma. They will coexist imo for the rest of all our lives so I will use the power and advantages of both.
Old 18th February 2012
  #439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ionian View Post
Past is a lot nicer than the future.

Regards,
Frank
Hmmmm........how can you possibly know that when the future has not happened yet?
Old 18th February 2012
  #440
Slate Pro Audio / Slate Digital
 
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioSoundzz View Post
First of all imo you proved it to yourself and no one else (and you have reasons to be bias so it gives me pause). I think to get into a digital vs analog argument is not needed and a waste of energy. I use both together and their is a synergy in that which works for me. I like real knobs - navigating on a ipad is a pain on the fingers and eyes. Most people will agree after working 10 hours on one imo. Digital eq and compressors sound different than analog ones. The VCC Trident sounds different than my Trident. I have analog gear with NO plug equivalents. The list goes on and on so at the end of the day I will work hybrid as I can pick and choose the best tools for each song while people stuck in their only digital dogma or analog dogma are more limited. To me "forward thinking" is to be hybrid and not in a digital or analog dogma. They will coexist imo for the rest of all our lives so I will use the power and advantages of both.
Hi there. It seems from your posts that you are very set in your ways, and I can understand that. But it also seems that you have no desire or intention to examine new possibilities. That's where we differ, because back when I mixed in a hybrid setup, I became obsessed with figuring out a better way... I wanted to ditch the analog badly! It infuriated me to have to clean up a scratchy fader knowing that I was relying on this beast made in 1987. Hence the VCC and now the Raven.

Change is not easy for many people.. I've already brought up my struggle to go from a standard mouse to a trackball, which I thought would never happen... but now the trackball is second nature. I think the same thing will happen regarding touchscreen control, digital mixing, and using digital tools to help make the music making process even better. The future is now. I say embrace it.

Cheers,
Steven
Old 18th February 2012
  #441
Gear interested
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Slate View Post
The dual monitor thing we've been tossing around.. but it creates another issue..

To accommodate a dual monitor, we'll need a wider gap in the middle of the Raven, and the controls will be less reachable from the seat of the desk. For dual monitor guys, can splitting up a 27" display work as a compromise, given the Raven's other features?
Well that's not very true. All you need is dual monitor articulated desktop mount arm, like the grandstand 8552 MA-double, that you can place in a way that your screens are further behind the near-field monitors, this way you don't need more spacing in between your monitors. Your screen will just be a bit further away from you and closer to the wall.
Old 18th February 2012
  #442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ionian View Post
Like the saying goes, "Better the devil you know, than the devil you don't."

Regards,
Frank
Sometimes I do think back fondly on my old C64 and Atari ST days, but I am absolutely LOVING where music technology is heading. I am continually amazed what I can do these days in my home studio compared years back and look forward every year at the technologies that continue to keep me in awe. The Future- Bring it on!!!!!!!
Old 18th February 2012
  #443
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Hi there. It seems from your posts that you are very set in your ways, and I can understand that. But it also seems that you have no desire or intention to examine new possibilities. That's where we differ, because back when I mixed in a hybrid setup, I became obsessed with figuring out a better way... I wanted to ditch the analog badly! It infuriated me to have to clean up a scratchy fader knowing that I was relying on this beast made in 1987. Hence the VCC and now the Raven.

Change is not easy for many people.. I've already brought up my struggle to go from a standard mouse to a trackball, which I thought would never happen... but now the trackball is second nature. I think the same thing will happen regarding touchscreen control, digital mixing, and using digital tools to help make the music making process even better. The future is now. I say embrace it.
Quite to the contrary as I was completely ITB for 3 years (before you did it) even though I own over two hundred thousand in outboard gear so I do not think I am afraid of change. It was an interesting experiment in work flow but I found it limited in scope and options and many of my mixes suffered as a result. Now, I can change as fast as needed because some mixes I still do completely ITB and some are hybrid. How is having all options available not changing with the times? To suggest that digital only dogma is the future seems silly to me.

I think their may be a need for what your design is addressing for those who can live with the limitations of the digital only world and who can work using a ipad. I am using this forum to state my needs and make suggestions which I thought you requested as the reason for it to begin with, not to argue with you wanting to change the "way I think" or be insulted that I am not forward thinking because I do not agree this design is suited for me. I thought hybrid solutions were already being address as you have some of your hardware in the pictures I got my hopes up In the mean time I will continue using the VCC for my ITB projects and be happy in the analog/digital hybrid world as well and be forward thinking about the many mixes needing completion. I wish you success brother and thanks for your entertaining and engaging posts!
Old 18th February 2012
  #444
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Hey Steven!

Looks great so far. One thing to maybe keep in the back of your mind is that Apple will probably be doing away with it's dock connector eventually. Once they figure out how to use wireless electricity efficiently to charge their iOS devices, there will be no need for a dock connection as all updates/backups/syncs can already be done wirelessly.

I believe there's a technology called wi-tricity that they are experimenting with. I saw a demo once of it and it was powering a flatscreen HDTV wirelessly!

This may be way off in the future though, but it most definitely is coming!
Old 18th February 2012
  #445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spencerc View Post
Hey Steven!

Looks great so far. One thing to maybe keep in the back of your mind is that Apple will probably be doing away with it's dock connector eventually. Once they figure out how to use wireless electricity efficiently to charge their iOS devices, there will be no need for a dock connection as all updates/backups/syncs can already be done wirelessly.

I believe there's a technology called wi-tricity that they are experimenting with. I saw a demo once of it and it was powering a flatscreen HDTV wirelessly!

This may be way off in the future though, but it most definitely is coming!
Wireless electricity is most likely an inevitability.... considering that Tesla was experimenting with some success with this 100 years ago, but I still think that developers should take into account what is utilized NOW, and iOS stuff is "in" currently.

With respect, though, I do believe that Steve is over-estimating the 2013 demise of the CD. A majority of the world cannot afford to switch to new technologies so quickly, and solely based on that I believe that a medium like the CD will still be viable for at least another 5 to 7 years.

Now hurry up and give us those updated pictures of the Raven!!!!!!!
Old 18th February 2012
  #446
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Quote:
With respect, though, I do believe that Steve is over-estimating the 2013 demise of the CD. A majority of the world cannot afford to switch to new technologies so quickly, and solely based on that I believe that a medium like the CD will still be viable for at least another 5 to 7 years.
Ha - even vinyl records are still being pressed and the numbers increase each year. Some customers will always want high quality and real collectable items to not only support the artist but their collection fancy. I love to give CDs as gifts and always get a smile from the receiver! Downloads have little sex appeal and physical products carry a higher perception of worth. Imo, CDs or even a better physical medium are here to stay folks. And - I am a record label owner and have seen sales of CDs go up substantially in 2011 along with many artists I produce.
Old 18th February 2012
  #447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Vulture View Post
OMG!
Slate says his plugins is JUST AS GOOD as any analog console.
Dudes, this is getting just stupid..
He is even arrogant about it.

Incredible..

I am laughing way to hard now
Unfortunately this forum does not have an "ignore all messages by this user" option like some other forums do (at least not that I am aware of - if somebody knows how please let me know)

It would really make this forum a whole lot more enjoyable to bypass all of the folks who have nothing constructive to contribute, and just create a bunch of negativity and NOISE.

Vulture, please go find another thread to troll in. There are plenty of great ones for you in the "Moan Zone".
Old 18th February 2012
  #448
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A few thoughts...

I own nothing by Slate...yet. I like the man's passion. Some of the things he states are a little far-reaching for me, but a LOT of the comments he is greeted with seem to force him to take this stance. I'm glad he defends his designs, but its pretty clear to me that there will NEVER be one sort of "cookie-cutter" method of working. Some choose a mouse...some choose a track-ball. Some choose ITB...some choose hybrid. Very, very few places are purely analog anymore...sure, they exist, but at this point, I feel (as "cool" as that is), they are only missing out on some incredible tools and toys at this point.

Can I work entirely in-the-box? Sure I can...and a LOT easier, and with much better results than I could several years ago. Do I do it all the time? Absolutely not...but will on tight budgets/deadlines (same thing really). Will I do it all the time anytime soon? Absolutely not. Does that make it right? No. Does it make it wrong? No.

It just seems like too many irrelevant things are entering into this conversation. The Raven X1 should/will either stand on its own, and find a way into my (and others) workflow, or not. Do vinyl (probably the finest medium ever) sales have any place in this conversation? I don't think so; If Slate was attaching a cutting lathe to the side of the desk, then perhaps. CD sales? We all know they're declining. I think it is pointless trying to pinpoint exactly when they'll be "dead." We ALL have the tools to listen...and burn CDs, so who gives a ****e about that?

I can see why CDs (and their decline) have made their way into the conversation, though...the inclusion of an iWhatever dock. I think the first thing to clear up on it is that a "dock" is merely an adapter...pretty much universally to USB these days. In this case I would assume the dock just terminates to an internal USB port...extras of which are included externally for other phones/devices that don't have a standardized "dock" as common as Apple's. What is all the bloody uproar about? Its just a convenience...but a relevant one.

If Apple changes the dock protocol, will it render the Raven useless? No. Just swap out one $5 (tops) Dock to USB cable for another. If Apple eliminates the dock due to wireless electricity, will the Raven be a door-stop? No...because there will always be modern day dinosaurs like me (still on an iPhone 3G...waiting for the 5 to upgrade heh) that will have a use for the "useless" dock for several years after.

One little connector has brought on so many spin-off conversations. I just don't get it. Its is by FAR the most "universal" connector out there...spanning multiple devices and generations...and its just a glorified USB connector...why all the fuss? Anyway...in the spirit of the thread...I'm getting off track...

If the Raven X1 stands on its own, and fits my workflow...which it appears it just might; certainly in one of my rooms...then great! But...if I'm told I MUST use a track-ball and MUST only use VCC, SSD etc, etc...I'm out.

Anyway...would love to see some updated glamour shots, Mr Slate! At least the conversation will freshen up because the naysayers will have new material to rip to shreds!

Keep up the good work. All the best,

Ken
Old 18th February 2012
  #449
Gear interested
 

If using plugins to emulate decades old equipment is the future, why is it so heavily reliant on the past ie the decades old equipment?
I would have thought that someone truly forward thinking wouldn't be interested in emulating the sound of something old like a neve or a studer, but instead would be more focused on just making products that make recorded music "sound better" regardless. Neves and Studers were far from perfect.
If digital is the future why waste so much time on making it sound analog? Why not make it sound like better digital? That's forward thinking to me.

Unless of course the truth is that no matter what, analog will always sound better, in which case all that the emulations are doing is making an "analog" sound more accessible. Laudable? Sure, but it's still an emulation. The problem is, even after all these years, and many scientific tests and celebrity endorsements Diet Coke still doesn't taste like Coke.

Anyway I digress, I just came here to look at photos...
Old 18th February 2012
  #450
Quote:
Originally Posted by roundaboutmusic View Post
If using plugins to emulate decades old equipment is the future, why is it so heavily reliant on the past ie the decades old equipment?
The point is to keep the good and side step the not-so-good aspects. That's why they model the old stuff. The old stuff sounds great in many cases. We want that. The workflow, cost and infrastructure is the hindrance. That's what plug-ins offer as advantageous. This is hardly a leap in reasoning. I wonder why so many people are stuck in their brains about it.

Quote:
...I would have thought that someone truly forward thinking wouldn't be interested in emulating the sound of something old like a neve or a studer, but instead would be more focused on just making products that make recorded music "sound better" regardless. Neves and Studers were far from perfect.
Which is why it's "forward thinking" to solve the problems of those devices. Plug-ins are one way to skin that cat. Whether or not they satisfy their intended goal is a matter for debate.
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...If digital is the future why waste so much time on making it sound analog? Why not make it sound like better digital? That's forward thinking to me.
That happens too. Plenty of plugs that do just that. It's not an either or. There's room for both approaches to processing digitally.

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...Unless of course the truth is that no matter what, analog will always sound better
Well that is what is in dispute and many experiments have consistently revealed that it's not so clean a line as to which always sounds "better" or even whether or not anything can be identified either way when the work is well done.
Quote:
...in which case all that the emulations are doing is making an "analog" sound more accessible. Laudable? Sure, but it's still an emulation. The problem is, even after all these years, and many scientific tests and celebrity endorsements Diet Coke still doesn't taste like Coke....
The problem is your false analogy. If you're certain that you can tell the difference so easily and that "diet Coke" is so obvious then take the challenge Slate laid out and you'll have a company that makes you a lot of money for free.
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