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new VU meter and trim plugin: Klanghelm VUMT (Win & Mac 32 & 64 Bit plus standalone)
Old 29th October 2011
  #151
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steveschizoid's Avatar
I 've been experimenting with this plug-in, and I'm getting the idea I've been overly conservative with my levels. It seems like it takes a lot hotter signal to reach 0 dbvu than a somewhat percussive signal with peaks between -12 and -16.

Thoughts anyone?
Old 29th October 2011
  #152
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loujudson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveschizoid View Post
I 've been experimenting with this plug-in, and I'm getting the idea I've been overly conservative with my levels. It seems like it takes a lot hotter signal to reach 0 dbvu than a somewhat percussive signal with peaks between -12 and -16.

Thoughts anyone?
Are you sure you are reading it correctly as a VU meter? Compare with onown reference levels and see the differences. VU meters read differently, but you may know that...
Old 29th October 2011
  #153
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steveschizoid's Avatar
Well, I gather that the vu meter is gives a rough measure of rms, but unless you're measuring a sine wav, in practice they read lower than the actual rms.

The question is: how much lower? - but of course that's going to depend upon the nature of the transient content!

There must be some sort of convention for using vu meters to keep your equipment in its happy zone.

When using digital peak meters, I keep the more steady state sounds close to -16 dBfs, while allowing the percussive sounds to exceed that by 4-10 dB depending on the dynamic range - with the idea of keeping the signal averaging +4 dBu.

I'm just wondering if that's a little conservative, and how people who genenerally use vu meters deal with this conundrum.
Old 29th October 2011
  #154
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loujudson's Avatar
It's a dymanic thing. In 30 years of using only VU meters, before LEDs, one just got to know and understand it.

Use it alongside the usual peak reading meters you are accustomed to, and you'll get the hang of it. Different kinds of sounds read differently on VU ballistics.

If you are aiming for +4dBu, you need to measure that outside the computer to be accurate. The computer only knows 0DBFS as an absolute reference. The voltage coming out is measured in dBu, I believe...

Peak reading readouts are a great thing to avoid overs. If they are accurate!
Old 29th October 2011
  #155
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steveschizoid's Avatar
I thought that actual vu meters reacted to voltage in such a way that 0 dBvu basically equals +4dBu, which, unless I misunderstood Paul at Lynx years ago when I asked, would be equivalent to -16dBfs with my converter.

This is pretty important to me to understand, because, not only do I want to optimize tracking, but I usually end up sending most of it back out to external inserts once or twice before it's all over.

It was only about 6 years ago that I realized the 16 bit mentality (of tracking as hot as possible) was totally misguided in a 24 bit world, and it made a huge, obvious difference in the results I was getting.

Although, it does seem like some of my equipment seems to want a hotter level than what I've come to believe is nominal - the A Designs Nail, for example, seems to offer a range of operation that seems to regard the levels I tend to work with as on the low side - which again makes me wonder if maybe I've swung too far.

The Anamod ATS-1 is kind of funny. It has a vu meter that responds as you would expect, but it doesn't have the headroom above 0 dBvu that you'd probably expect. It sounds great though. I track at low levels and/or use a compressor in front of it.
Old 4th November 2011
  #156
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveschizoid View Post
I thought that actual vu meters reacted to voltage in such a way that 0 dBvu basically equals +4dBu, which, unless I misunderstood Paul at Lynx years ago when I asked, would be equivalent to -16dBfs with my converter.

This is pretty important to me to understand, because, not only do I want to optimize tracking, but I usually end up sending most of it back out to external inserts once or twice before it's all over.

It was only about 6 years ago that I realized the 16 bit mentality (of tracking as hot as possible) was totally misguided in a 24 bit world, and it made a huge, obvious difference in the results I was getting.

Although, it does seem like some of my equipment seems to want a hotter level than what I've come to believe is nominal - the A Designs Nail, for example, seems to offer a range of operation that seems to regard the levels I tend to work with as on the low side - which again makes me wonder if maybe I've swung too far.

The Anamod ATS-1 is kind of funny. It has a vu meter that responds as you would expect, but it doesn't have the headroom above 0 dBvu that you'd probably expect. It sounds great though. I track at low levels and/or use a compressor in front of it.
The way I understood it is that you should still try and get a pretty "hot signal" on the way in when recording, somewhere between -6 -3 db when recording at any bit rate. Am I wrong about this?


Also, Tony, schöne grüß aus München! I just purchased your meter and am excited to get it and try it out! Can you tell me how I can download it and where? Thank you so much!

Min

p.s. my email is marcos.deida ( at ) gmail.com
Old 4th November 2011
  #157
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tonhelm's Avatar
 

Since every order is processed manually, it can take a few hours until you get your download details. I've already sent it to you. Cheers
Old 4th November 2011
  #158
Old 4th November 2011
  #159
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steveschizoid's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mista min View Post
The way I understood it is that you should still try and get a pretty "hot signal" on the way in when recording, somewhere between -6 -3 db when recording at any bit rate. Am I wrong about this?
Recording in 24 bit removes the quantization distortion below the analog noise floor, where it becomes pretty much a non issue, so there is no reason whatsoever to record hot as a matter of course. Analog devices have an optimum operating level which both minimizes distortion and optimizes S/N ratio. Generally speaking, that occurs at 0dBvu - which gives more of an rms than a peak indication. So you may very well have peaks that go up to 3dBfs, but what's important is the rms.

If you like the sound of driving your mic pre, then, by all means drive it. Just be aware that it results in a different sound. Also, keep in mind that your converter has analog components in the signal path which may react differently at higher levels, so you may want to experiment with an attenuator after the pre.
Old 7th November 2011
  #160
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bugscoe's Avatar
 

Just picked this up yesterday. Loving it. It's so nice to have the trim and meter all in one plug. Set the levels and go!
Old 14th January 2012
  #161
am a registered owner of this for a while, but only put it through its paces today. pitted it against another recent freeware VU, and preferred the look and "feel" of the klanghelm one. i really like it so far, and it certainly looks better than the old psp one i used to use.

there's only one problem i have with it, and that is that the VU needle's "peak hold" function is always on (it leaves a red line at the peak). i would really love to be able to turn this off, as it's not something you would get on a real VU, and I find it very distracting. for a VU i want to feel the average power of the sound, and have other meteriung plugs for more "clinical" readouts. any chance we can turn of that pesky red line?
Old 14th January 2012
  #162
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tonhelm's Avatar
 

you can turn the hold needle off by clicking at the top border of the meter
Old 14th January 2012
  #163
ah, thank you so much!!!

Old 2nd February 2012
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonhelm View Post
you can turn the hold needle off by clicking at the top border of the meter
Good to know! Use this plug every night
Old 9th February 2012
  #165
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tonhelm's Avatar
 

VUMT updated to version 1.8.2

Just wanna let you know that I've updated VUMT to version 1.8.2

Changes:
-VST3 support added
-both Mac and Win versions now have a dedicated installer
-the PPM mode has now its own adjustable reference level
-fixed: input of negative values
-fixed: strange behaviour at higher sample rates

The update is of course free for existing customers.

Tony
Old 9th February 2012
  #166
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acmusic's Avatar
 

thanks Tony. always using it for tracking. love it!

Old 11th February 2012
  #167
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Jolly Jimmy's Avatar
 

My new favourite metering plugin! All my meterslut needs are now fulfilled.
Old 25th February 2012
  #168
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peeej1978's Avatar
Just Paid for your VU meter. Really looking forward to getting it downloaded and assigned to tracking duties! Looks great.
Old 4th March 2012
  #169
113568
Guest
just ordered this too
looking forward to trying it out!
Old 25th March 2012
  #170
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Hey Tonhelm,

I finally got around to buying this today! I going all 64bit now so my old 32bit Sonalksis freeg is getting retired!

Cant wait to get my download in the next 24hours.
Old 25th March 2012
  #171
dio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drumdrum View Post
Hey Tonhelm,

I finally got around to buying this today! I going all 64bit now so my old 32bit Sonalksis freeg is getting retired!

Cant wait to get my download in the next 24hours.
You can use your FreeG as well. It's 64 bit now.
Old 25th March 2012
  #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dio View Post
You can use your FreeG as well. It's 64 bit now.
Really? Drat I just paid for this and all. (no offence tonhelm!)

Ah well variety is the spice of life!

Where can I get the 64bit sonalksis freeg version?
Old 26th March 2012
  #173
dio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drumdrum View Post
Really? Drat I just paid for this and all. (no offence tonhelm!)

Ah well variety is the spice of life!

Where can I get the 64bit sonalksis freeg version?
Er... sonalksis website
Old 26th March 2012
  #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dio View Post
Er... sonalksis website
Wow.... I feel really stupid right about now....
Pity you have to register first.

Cheers for the update
Old 28th April 2012
  #175
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I just bought this as a replacement for FreeG because it looks cool, and cool counts.
Old 29th May 2012
  #176
Another new customer here heh

The GUI looks very good. I wished the user could change the size though.

During a first very short test I got confused. I gainstage ITB at -12 (Logic meter), but I wasn't able to set the VUMT that it shows 0 dBVU at -12 dBFS.
Old 29th May 2012
  #177
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javahut's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by deft_bonz View Post
During a first very short test I got confused. I gainstage ITB at -12 (Logic meter), but I wasn't able to set the VUMT that it shows 0 dBVU at -12 dBFS.
Did you change your Logic Preferences for Mixer/Level Meters from Exponential to Sectional db-Linear? Saw that in a vid for the new MeterPlugs K-Meter... said basically you need to do that to see levels in Logic when mixing to K-Meter standards. You might try switching to that, or back from it, to see if it will match the Klanghelm.
Old 29th May 2012
  #178
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Jolly Jimmy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deft_bonz View Post
Another new customer here heh

The GUI looks very good. I wished the user could change the size though.

During a first very short test I got confused. I gainstage ITB at -12 (Logic meter), but I wasn't able to set the VUMT that it shows 0 dBVU at -12 dBFS.
Set VUMT to PPM mode if you want to gain stage using peak values.
Old 29th May 2012
  #179
Quote:
Originally Posted by javahut View Post
Did you change your Logic Preferences for Mixer/Level Meters from Exponential to Sectional db-Linear? Saw that in a vid for the new MeterPlugs K-Meter... said basically you need to do that to see levels in Logic when mixing to K-Meter standards. You might try switching to that, or back from it, to see if it will match the Klanghelm.
Nope haven't tried that. But why should that read something else than -12 dBFS? That's just a GUI option, not on how to measure. BTW I work with Logic 8. But I'll try that.
Old 29th May 2012
  #180
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javahut's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by deft_bonz View Post
Nope haven't tried that. But why should that read something else than -12 dBFS? That's just a GUI option, not on how to measure. BTW I work with Logic 8. But I'll try that.
Sorry... I don't use Logic. Just happened to see that in the vid and thought I'd mention it, since you're wanting to use K-Metering. I really have no idea what it does.
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