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new VU meter and trim plugin: Klanghelm VUMT (Win & Mac 32 & 64 Bit plus standalone)
Old 16th September 2011
  #91
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Hi,
I currently use Sonalksis FreeG and read -20 = 0Vu. Works ok and gives a ppm.
I'm not comparing....

I'm actually 90% of the way buying this plugin!

Just two things:
1 - Is the mono version issue (where its only showing "mono-> stereo") fixed in Logic yet? I use Logic 9.1.5 32bit and will go 64bit when Waves decide to get off their arses and release 64bit versions!

2 - This may seem like a stupid question, but the plugin doesnt automatically reduce the gain by -20db if you set the VU in -20db mode, does it? Its just that I track my audio at around -20db RMS so that the converters are hit at the nominal level. Faders at unity, level at -20dbFS (0VU). The way it should be!
I dont want to work at unity = -40dbfs!

Thanks....
As I said, I'm 90% there.....
Old 16th September 2011
  #92
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtalavera View Post
Yes, works great in PT9 on Win7.
Thanks, mtalavera.

How does this thing work as a standalone app? I was about to buy it (and I might still just because it's so cheap) but I realized I don't need another meter. If there's any good standalone uses then that would be nice but I don't get how it would work...
Old 16th September 2011
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyTheAvatar View Post
Thanks, mtalavera.

How does this thing work as a standalone app? I was about to buy it (and I might still just because it's so cheap) but I realized I don't need another meter. If there's any good standalone uses then that would be nice but I don't get how it would work...
Same here.
Old 16th September 2011
  #94
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tonhelm's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drumdrum View Post
Hi,
I currently use Sonalksis FreeG and read -20 = 0Vu. Works ok and gives a ppm.
I'm not comparing....

I'm actually 90% of the way buying this plugin!

Just two things:
1 - Is the mono version issue (where its only showing "mono-> stereo") fixed in Logic yet? I use Logic 9.1.5 32bit and will go 64bit when Waves decide to get off their arses and release 64bit versions!

2 - This may seem like a stupid question, but the plugin doesnt automatically reduce the gain by -20db if you set the VU in -20db mode, does it? Its just that I track my audio at around -20db RMS so that the converters are hit at the nominal level. Faders at unity, level at -20dbFS (0VU). The way it should be!
I dont want to work at unity = -40dbfs!

Thanks....
As I said, I'm 90% there.....

The plugin doesn't reduce the gain by default. with the -20, -18 and -14 buttons you only set the reference level for the VU meter.

The mono->stereo issue will be fixed in the first update (which shouldn't be more than 3 weeks away, hopefully). The update will also include a PPM mode and many more (feature requests).

Cheers,
Tony
Old 16th September 2011
  #95
Tui
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Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonhelm View Post
The update will also include a PPM mode and many more (feature requests).

Cheers,
Tony
You see, there's somebody else who mentioned the Sonalksis FreeG. If you could come up with a 64-bit alternative, I'd be your first customer.
Old 16th September 2011
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonhelm View Post
The plugin doesn't reduce the gain by default. with the -20, -18 and -14 buttons you only set the reference level for the VU meter.

The mono->stereo issue will be fixed in the first update (which shouldn't be more than 3 weeks away, hopefully). The update will also include a PPM mode and many more (feature requests).

Cheers,
Tony
Cool Tony, thanks for that. I will hold off so until the update arrives. Thanks!
Old 20th September 2011
  #97
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First time purchasing a metering plugin of this type and I have to admit I am kind of confused about the process. Let me explain. I set the plugin at -20, adjusted the trim level also at -20 and when I play from my DAW a 0dBfs test tone that I made for my gain-staging use, the plugin does indeed read 0. Good, no issue there as far as playback is concerned. Where I'm confused is about tracking. Do you guys track with this plugin on, and if yes, do you leave it with the trim at -20, then track as close to 0dBfs as possible on your DAW meter, or you bypass the plugin and track as you would normally do and go by the DAW meter reading -20 or so instead?
Old 21st September 2011
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deltones View Post
First time purchasing a metering plugin of this type and I have to admit I am kind of confused about the process. Let me explain. I set the plugin at -20, adjusted the trim level also at -20 and when I play from my DAW a 0dBfs test tone that I made for my gain-staging use, the plugin does indeed read 0. Good, no issue there as far as playback is concerned. Where I'm confused is about tracking. Do you guys track with this plugin on, and if yes, do you leave it with the trim at -20, then track as close to 0dBfs as possible on your DAW meter, or you bypass the plugin and track as you would normally do and go by the DAW meter reading -20 or so instead?
I think the whole idea here is that you should track so that the VU meter reads around 0 (corresponding to say -18dBFS) with a few peaks going a little further into the red area. That should be the signal you get from analog equipment like a preamp and the signal you should send to outboard analog equipment. Many plugins are calibrated to work like their analog equivalents and should hence receive a similar signal. But unfortunately it is not the case for all plugins as far as I can see.

Tracking close to 0 dbFS was the way to do it in the 16-bit days to avoid losing signal to noise ratio. But with 24 or 32 bit audio that is no longer necessary so instead you match digital and analog signals to the same level.

That's my interpretation based on several threads in forums.
Old 21st September 2011
  #99
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kozlikha's Avatar
 

In PT I use Massey's HR Meter (used to be free). But I must admit this looks gorgeous & because we are all slutz here I will buy this meter once it becomes PT compatible. Plus having trim function within the meter is just sooo cool.

How does standalone function? No info on website.
Old 21st September 2011
  #100
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Deltones's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tombuur View Post
I think the whole idea here is that you should track so that the VU meter reads around 0 (corresponding to say -18dBFS) with a few peaks going a little further into the red area. That should be the signal you get from analog equipment like a preamp and the signal you should send to outboard analog equipment. Many plugins are calibrated to work like their analog equivalents and should hence receive a similar signal. But unfortunately it is not the case for all plugins as far as I can see.

Tracking close to 0 dbFS was the way to do it in the 16-bit days to avoid losing signal to noise ratio. But with 24 or 32 bit audio that is no longer necessary so instead you match digital and analog signals to the same level.

That's my interpretation based on several threads in forums.
I'm not talking about tracking close to 0dBfs with the Klanghelm plugin off. Before I bought the plugin 2 days ago, I tracked at around -20/18 on my DAW meter as a matter of habit. It's when the Klanghelm plugin is ON that I get confused. Remember that playing a 0dBfs test tone with reference at -20 and trim at -20 on the Klanghelm will display 0 on the VU. But tracking at my usual level of -20 or so, with the Klanghelm ON with the trim at -20, the needle is not even moving. But if I put the trim on the plugin at unity, then my tracking at -20 will indeed make the VU needle move close to 0. That's why I asked about tracking close to 0dBfs with the Klanghelm ON, with reference and trim set at -20.

So far, after some testing this is how I would use the Klanghelm VU. Let me know if I'm completely off track.

For tracking/recording outside sources like guitars and acoustic drums:
Klanghelm ON, Reference -20, Trim 0.0. Record at -20dB or so on the DAW meter. Klanghelm needle should dance around 0 VU.

For tracking /recording midi sources like Addictive Drums with plugin mixer/master faders at unity. Velocity 127 should be close to 0dBfs:
Klanghelm ON, Reference -20, Trim -20.0. Record at -20dB or so on the DAW meter. Klanghelm needle should dance around 0 VU.

For mixing tracks that were recorded around -20dBfs:
Klanghelm ON on DAW Master track, Reference -20, Trim -20.0

For mixing tracks that were recorded too hot and close to 0dBfs:
Klanghelm instance ON on individual tracks, Reference -20, Trim -20.0. Duo Klanghelm ON on DAW Master track, Reference -20, Trim -20.0

Makes sense?
Old 21st September 2011
  #101
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Mercado_Negro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deltones View Post
For tracking/recording outside sources like guitars and acoustic drums:
Klanghelm ON, Reference -20, Trim 0.0. Record at -20dB or so on the DAW meter. Klanghelm needle should dance around 0 VU.
It's OK. Use this method for VSTis as well, just as a matter of consistency in the workflow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deltones View Post
For mixing tracks that were recorded around -20dBfs:
Klanghelm ON on DAW Master track, Reference -20, Trim -20.0

For mixing tracks that were recorded too hot and close to 0dBfs:
Klanghelm instance ON on individual tracks, Reference -20, Trim -20.0. Duo Klanghelm ON on DAW Master track, Reference -20, Trim -20.0

Makes sense?
If your tracks were recorded below 0VU then you don't need to apply any trim.
Old 21st September 2011
  #102
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Amun Ra's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deltones View Post
For mixing tracks that were recorded around -20dBfs:
Klanghelm ON on DAW Master track, Reference -20, Trim -20.0

For mixing tracks that were recorded too hot and close to 0dBfs:
Klanghelm instance ON on individual tracks, Reference -20, Trim -20.0. Duo Klanghelm ON on DAW Master track, Reference -20, Trim -20.0

Makes sense?
After you trimmed the tracks that needed trimming (pre or post recording) there is no need to start trimming again. Use your mixer faders to gainstage into the master - that's what they are there for! Reference levels on the master depend on what you are trying to achieve, and what plugins you are planning to use there. Sometimes it's useful to have one meter pre-masterfx and one post-masterfx.
Old 22nd September 2011
  #103
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Deltones's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro View Post
If your tracks were recorded below 0VU then you don't need to apply any trim.
Ah ok, I got it now. That makes sense. Thanks.
Old 22nd September 2011
  #104
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kozlikha's Avatar
 

It would be awesome if it was possible to run VUMT (standalone) on multiple I/O's input channels simultaneously.
Old 29th September 2011
  #105
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Hi tonhelm,

Any update regarding that Logic fix yet?

thanks
Old 29th September 2011
  #106
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Robin Walsh's Avatar
 

Could we please have '-16' calibration setting?

Lynx Aurora's are calibrated to -16dBFS = 0dBU (as per their manual)

Thanks,
Robin
Old 29th September 2011
  #107
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kozlikha's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Undahaus View Post
Could we please have '-16' calibration setting?

Lynx Aurora's are calibrated to -16dBFS = 0dBU (as per their manual)

Thanks,
Robin
Come on man, isn't -15 close enough for you?
Old 29th September 2011
  #108
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Robin Walsh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kozlikha View Post
Come on man, isn't -15 close enough for you?
Nope tutt

-15? I only have -20, -18, -14..
Old 29th September 2011
  #109
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For Fireface 800 it looks like -13 is the calibration level. Though I find the information hard to interpret. I too would want exact calibration.

... So why not just have a calibration dial, or hide this and make calibration visible by right clicking or something? I certainly don't see any need to switch between different several calibration levels, unless you change the audio card or its settings.
Old 29th September 2011
  #110
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Robin Walsh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tombuur View Post
For Fireface 800 it looks like -13 is the calibration level. Though I find the information hard to interpret. I too would want exact calibration.

... So why not just have a calibration dial, or hide this and make calibration visible by right clicking or something? I certainly don't see any need to switch between different several calibration levels, unless you change the audio card or its settings.

Yes!! A calibration dial!! Excellent idea! From -23 to -10, for example.

I used RME ADI-8's and they were -15, if I remember correctly.


Robin
Old 29th September 2011
  #111
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kozlikha's Avatar
 

I asked RME and the reply was that ADC's provides same quality signal processing at all levels, no matter -30 or -5 or -50.
Old 29th September 2011
  #112
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Robin Walsh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kozlikha View Post
I asked RME and the reply was that ADC's provides same quality signal processing at all levels, no matter -30 or -5 or -50.
Great..

But, outboard gear doesn't..
Old 30th September 2011
  #113
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temetrepo's Avatar
 

in PT using the wrapper if i close the plug and reopen i just get a blank GUI
don't know if anyone else is experiencing the same or have reported it
haven't read through all the pages of this thread
sorry if it was already reported
Old 30th September 2011
  #114
Gear Maniac
 
tonhelm's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drumdrum View Post
Hi tonhelm,

Any update regarding that Logic fix yet?

thanks
I'm still working on the update. As it will include most of the requested features (except the filters). it still takes some time (I'm hoping not more than 2 or 3 weeks). I'm working on it every day.
New features will include:
- switchable numerical readout of the VU level and digital peak level.
- a switchable secondary hold needle which displays the current max VU level
- clever peak LED:
if levels exceed a user defined level it will light up orange, if levels exceed 0 dB the LED will light up red (hold time adjustable)
- freely setable VU reference level
- additional PPM mode with adjustable rise and fall times
- manual VU mode with adjustable rise/fallback and overshoot
- two VU mode presets:
- the original (current), standardwise correct one and a more musical interpretation (slower rise/fall-times but higher overshoot, still shows correct values)
- independent mid/side controls
- link button in the DUO version for the trim controls
- lots of internal optimisations which lead to smoother needle animation and smaller RAM footprint

thanks for your patience and for all your valuable input to improve VUMT.

Tony
Old 30th September 2011
  #115
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Robin Walsh's Avatar
 

Great news Tony
Old 30th September 2011
  #116
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Amun Ra's Avatar
 

Yepp, sounds very good!
Old 2nd October 2011
  #117
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When ready, I'm buying! :D

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Gearslutz.com App
Old 11th October 2011
  #118
Gear Maniac
 
tonhelm's Avatar
 

Just a quick heads up.
I've nearly finished the update. two minor things left and then testing, testing, testing.
Beside some fixes it will include many new features.
For those, who are sitting on the fence:
when released, the price will go up a bit (not decided yet, VUMT 1.57 will cost something between 6.28 and 7.99 Euro).
So if you want it for 5 Euro this is your last chance.
I hope to release the update at the beginning of next week (fingers crossed).
The update is free for all users, of course.

All the best

Tony
Old 11th October 2011
  #119
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thanks, Tony. Looking forward to it. Using your meter all the time
Old 14th October 2011
  #120
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I bought it because of the standalone (in VST I already have SatSon), but I can't make the VU work... Working with an RME Multiface I, that don't let you share the same channel between different sound applications.

Anyone with an RME did the trick with the standalone? I'm routing and all that, but I just can't make it work :-(

EDIT: Ok, already done. Awaiting the new version, the VU works extremely nice with Nebulaman previews :-)
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