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new VU meter and trim plugin: Klanghelm VUMT (Win & Mac 32 & 64 Bit plus standalone)
Old 8th September 2011
  #61
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farhadkd's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonhelm View Post
Hi,
today Klanghelm has released its first plugin (and standalone app): VUMT.
Klanghelm is me, Tony Frenzel from Berlin, Germany
and VUMT is a recreation of a VU meter and has an additional trim function to make your gain staging life easier.
Please Tony, could you guys have an RTAS version? PLEASE?

Farhad
Old 8th September 2011
  #62
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by farhadkd View Post
Please Tony, could you guys have an RTAS version? PLEASE?

Farhad
It is probably avid standing in the way more than anything else. Tony said in a previous post it is on his list. I use it in PT9 with the wrapper.
Old 8th September 2011
  #63
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tonhelm's Avatar
 

hey lou,
i'm not sure what you mean with changing the colour. you can switch the skin by clicking at the vu meter itself. does this help?
regarding the rtas: it shouldn't be that hard to port vumt to rtas. but i need the ok and the sdk from avid first. when i get the ok rtas isn't far away.
tony
Old 8th September 2011
  #64
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loujudson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonhelm View Post
hey lou,
i'm not sure what you mean with changing the colour. you can switch the skin by clicking at the vu meter itself. does this help?
regarding the rtas: it shouldn't be that hard to port vumt to rtas. but i need the ok and the sdk from avid first. when i get the ok rtas isn't far away.
tony
Oh! That's it. Guess I missed that instruction. Thanks.
L
Old 8th September 2011
  #65
Gear Head
 

Hi,
i'm loving your VU plugin as well.

The attack,release,acceleration etc... can be a good thing
i really like the VU on the softube CL1B too. Probably wrong
or too slow, but really informative to look at. yours is more reactive
i like both.

If your meter can behave like the CL1B too with the new settings
it's a winner.

great work.
Old 9th September 2011
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzy Pidjay View Post
Hi,
i'm loving your VU plugin as well.

The attack,release,acceleration etc... can be a good thing
i really like the VU on the softube CL1B too. Probably wrong
or too slow, but really informative to look at. yours is more reactive
i like both.

If your meter can behave like the CL1B too with the new settings
it's a winner.

great work.
Softube CL1B's VU meter is a role model, best VU meter in digital form. I do not own it but I remember I was very impressed with it when I ran the demo. It behaves "exactly" like 90% of real VUs I've used/seen.
Old 9th September 2011
  #67
Gear Addict
 

I would LOVE to see some basic low pass / high pass filters on this thing! Anyone else?
Old 9th September 2011
  #68
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LGK_Dude View Post
I would LOVE to see some basic low pass / high pass filters on this thing! Anyone else?
Not for me. I prefer dedicated plugins with the best filters possible.

But a digital peak indicator would be nice. In fact I am not buying this because there is none. (someone said the DAW shows this but I want to see what is going on BEFORE some plugins.)
Old 9th September 2011
  #69
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tonhelm's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dappolito View Post
But a digital peak indicator would be nice. In fact I am not buying this because there is none. (someone said the DAW shows this but I want to see what is going on BEFORE some plugins.)
There is a digital clip indicator on the frame just underneath the needle. Or do you mean something else?
Old 9th September 2011
  #70
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Looks great. Can't go wrong with that price either.

I just realized that I wouldn't mind an LUFS meter like this. Single, a bit wider, maybe with a truepeak indicator that only needs to be a couple of pixels high underneath going left to right.

LUFS metering is k-weighted 400ms(momentary) or 3000ms(short term) window metering after all(see specs for details).

An idea. Worth a thought or two. A new plugin of course. At $5 I do not expect you to just toss that on to the pile. I already use Toneboosters EBU Loudness meter and have tested NuGens loudness meter as well. All fine stuff, but a needle with some stuff only computers can do, like changing the colour of the needle and the background itself when it crosses a certain threshold, would be useful. (And yeah, you could that in hardware with coloured lights)

If I'm going to look at a meter, I want to know what's going on as quickly as possible. The quickest way for that is actually colour because it requires the least focus and processing. Intensity doesn't really work well in establishing the necessary contrast. So well chosen colours and transition ranges could improve the already existing colours chosen to indicate where 0 VU is crossed. And for LU metering(-23 LUFS = 0 LU reference) this might be great.

I'd buy it to complement the vertical meters I already have.

-edit- Berlin, eh. Greets from Schoeneberg.
Old 9th September 2011
  #71
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonhelm View Post
There is a digital clip indicator on the frame just underneath the needle. Or do you mean something else?
Nope, that's what I meant. Nice
Old 9th September 2011
  #72
Gear Maniac
 
tonhelm's Avatar
 

Yeah, this would be a new product indeed just as the idea to include PPM metering. I really want to keep VUMT as VU meter (hence the name).
Today I thought about the possible tweakability of the needle behaviour more:
It is too much work for me to find NON confusing and predictable tweaking parameters other than attack/release (rise/fall). That's why I want to include maybe 3 different behaviour modes. after reading the comments about the CL1B VU meter I got a demo lincense from softube to compare it with VUMT.
First thing I noticed, they are indeed VERY different. But it was possible to tweak VUMT with some crazy internal and heavily interacting parameters in my dev version to get its behaviour at least in the same ballpark. the meter of the CL1B is quite loose compared the firm ballistics of VUMT and also the PSP one. So I'd like to put such a "loose mode" into VUMT. Additionally you'll get attack and release parameters to finetune the mode. And I mean finetune: you won't be able to get VUMT to behave like a PPM, for instance. That's not the intension of the plugin. What I'm trying to achieve is, that everyone is able to setup a VU behaviour he/she likes and is familiar with.

I'd like to hear further suggestions for a third mode besides the original behaviour (which will not change) and a loose mode.
Old 9th September 2011
  #73
Gear Head
 

Yes the CL1B VU is quite loose and got some inertia and overshoot.
Looks a lot like a real needle, at least the ones i worked with.

Personnaly this kind of behavior + Clip Led + Trim Gain, and it's perfect.

It seems like we cannot enter by keyboard the "minus" on the trim gain
i need to turn counterclockwise and then change just the value without the 'minus' sign. Anyone else ?

Thanks for listening to customers feedback anyway

PJ
Old 9th September 2011
  #74
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dappolito View Post
Not for me. I prefer dedicated plugins with the best filters possible.

But a digital peak indicator would be nice. In fact I am not buying this because there is none. (someone said the DAW shows this but I want to see what is going on BEFORE some plugins.)
Guess I must be a newbe because I dont have any clue what a "good filter" would be, especially if you're just looking to knock out everything under 80hz in a vocal recording for example.
Old 10th September 2011
  #75
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Can we get a video (or something) showing this thing at work? That'd be a really great selling point.
Old 10th September 2011
  #76
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzy Pidjay View Post
If your meter can behave like the CL1B too with the new settings
it's a winner.
Someone looked into the manual or contacted Softube regarding the rise/fall settings and where the reference level resides? If that is known, porting should be simple.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LGK_Dude View Post
I would LOVE to see some basic low pass / high pass filters on this thing! Anyone else?
Sorry, but I disagree on that end.
It's a Volume Unit (VU) measurement tool, not a channel strip. Adding a trim knob already adds a lot of versatility.

Leave the filtering to the tools that actually do that: and EQ or LP/HP like Christian Budde's Rubberfilter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Airon View Post
I just realized that I wouldn't mind an LUFS meter like this. Single, a bit wider, maybe with a truepeak indicator that only needs to be a couple of pixels high underneath going left to right.
As you said a bit further down, seperate plugin.

Then again, the "competition" created awesome stuff already. For Windows (and freeware) there is Audication's creation (coded by Christian Budde). It's just another guide in terms of metering - and I still try to understand all the rage regarding the EBU R128 "standard" (which is still a "suggestion"!).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Airon View Post
LUFS metering is k-weighted 400ms(momentary) or 3000ms(short term) window metering after all(see specs for details).
I thought k-weighted is lower (around 300ms), but you'll always learn something new every day.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Airon View Post
-edit- Berlin, eh. Greets from Schoeneberg.
Big city, small world.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonhelm View Post
Yeah, this would be a new product indeed just as the idea to include PPM metering. I really want to keep VUMT as VU meter (hence the name).
A peak programme meter was originally a modified VU before they turned into plasma or "LED" meters. PSP's creation has a PPM mode (as you probably know by now) with the switch which can even go as low as "instant".

PPM measurements would be a bonus, but if it's switchable on the same plugin, why not. The EBU R128 system lies on a whole different ballpark however.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonhelm View Post
the meter of the CL1B is quite loose compared the firm ballistics of VUMT and also the PSP one. So I'd like to put such a "loose mode" into VUMT.
Again, maybe contact Softube or TubeTech on that end just to get a confirmation. From demo videos I've seen it's a customized VU for the CL1B. So it can be that the attack (rise) is fast, but the fallback is slow. It was optimized to read out compression after al.

So I kind of disagree to implement a "loose" mode. Maybe really focus on the rise/fall only and simpy lock the finetuning to the values "exponentially" (the higher the rise/fall, the slower the needle responds). Much like a weight added to the needle (which basically is what defines the ballistics of a VU needle).


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonhelm View Post
What I'm trying to achieve is, that everyone is able to setup a VU behaviour he/she likes and is familiar with.
Aside from the ANSI C16.5-1942, British Standard BS 6840, and IEC 60268-17 declaration (VU with 300ms rise/fall and visual representation from -20dB to +3dB), I think PPMs (IEC 60268-10 standard) like Din, Nordic and EBU are just as common. Not only in LED meter form.

Specialities like CL1B's compressor VU, the K-System (rise/fall 600ms), the EBU R128 definition or whatever else used a VU that could be calibrated - is just an additional bonus IMO. If it's customizable without limits, people can create their "own" settings based upon specs available in both manuals and from the web.

Really focus on "one" product only - everything else evolves by itself.



Quote:
Originally Posted by tonhelm View Post
I'd like to hear further suggestions for a third mode besides the original behaviour (which will not change) and a loose mode.
Like I said, keep it simple:
- Reference Level (0VU) from -24dB to -6dB
- Rise / Fall (integration time) - best if insertable with numeric values
- Digital Clip indication / Headroom setting (yellow LED) from -12dBFS digital to -0,5dBFS digital (the red LED goes off at -0,2dB)
- maybe even a "lock mode" for the GUI's and/or a scale switch (like PSP's VU with the -10dB to +6dB indication if you click on the meter itself)

If you want to add firmware presets, then make an additional dropdown on the backpannel as well (which would still be customizable, but it'd be a great starting point).


This should be more than enough settings already.
And if the host can save presets, people can create their own.


That simple.
Old 10th September 2011
  #77
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonhelm View Post
I'd like to hear further suggestions
Here's a suggestion, totally from left field: You know what's really needed is a 64-bit replacement for the Sonalksis FreeG. At least for Macs, I'm not aware of anything similar, i.e. a high resolution volume control plug-in. I would be happy to pay for something like this.
Old 10th September 2011
  #78
Gear Maniac
Quote:
I would LOVE to see some basic low pass / high pass filters on this thing! Anyone else?
...a compressor and a tape delay would be nice too...

Last edited by bluefonia; 10th September 2011 at 11:32 PM.. Reason: too many words
Old 10th September 2011
  #79
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluefonia View Post
...a compressor and a tape delay would be nice too...
Yes and reverb, chorus and 16 oscillators wouldn't hurt either.
Old 11th September 2011
  #80
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Mercado_Negro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonhelm View Post
First thing I noticed, they are indeed VERY different. But it was possible to tweak VUMT with some crazy internal and heavily interacting parameters in my dev version to get its behaviour at least in the same ballpark. the meter of the CL1B is quite loose compared the firm ballistics of VUMT and also the PSP one. So I'd like to put such a "loose mode" into VUMT. Additionally you'll get attack and release parameters to finetune the mode. And I mean finetune: you won't be able to get VUMT to behave like a PPM, for instance. That's not the intension of the plugin. What I'm trying to achieve is, that everyone is able to setup a VU behaviour he/she likes and is familiar with.

I'd like to hear further suggestions for a third mode besides the original behaviour (which will not change) and a loose mode.
I downloaded CL1B's demo today (oh god, I hate unusable demo licenses in my iLok2 but it was worth it for this discussion) and I wouldn't call it "loose" but more like real VUs work, they "dance" with dynamics and energy, it feels right, it's not just a needle bouncing up/down, it's that feel you get like if you can actually "hear" what's happening by watching it, hard to explain, sorry). I can't really tell how your VU meter compares since I don't own it (and I won't be able to purchase it until next year, sorry) but I just wanted to point out in my previous post something that always stuck in my mind when I tried that CL1B plug-in and I just confirmed it again, that VU is perfect as far as I can see/feel. Hope that makes sense.

By the way, thanks for developing a tool like this, as a Nebula user I can tell how much it is needed Good luck with it!

Cheers
Old 11th September 2011
  #81
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluefonia View Post
...a compressor and a tape delay would be nice too...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doomcore View Post
Yes and reverb, chorus and 16 oscillators wouldn't hurt either.
yeah, and why have a trim on it at all? Why not get rid of it and make it just a VU meter. You can always add your own gain plugin after the VU meter. :facepalm

If the plugin is going to sit on every channel anyway due to using the trim knob for volume control, why not add some filters too and save adding another filter plugin after it? Seems to work well for Satson, but I guess I'm a nut for suggesting it....
Old 11th September 2011
  #82
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tonhelm's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro View Post
I downloaded CL1B's demo today (oh god, I hate unusable demo licenses in my iLok2 but it was worth it for this discussion) and I wouldn't call it "loose" but more like real VUs work, they "dance" with dynamics and energy, it feels right, it's not just a needle bouncing up/down, it's that feel you get like if you can actually "hear" what's happening by watching it, hard to explain, sorry). I can't really tell how your VU meter compares since I don't own it (and I won't be able to purchase it until next year, sorry) but I just wanted to point out in my previous post something that always stuck in my mind when I tried that CL1B plug-in and I just confirmed it again, that VU is perfect as far as I can see/feel. Hope that makes sense.

By the way, thanks for developing a tool like this, as a Nebula user I can tell how much it is needed Good luck with it!

Cheers
Ok, I see what you mean. What I've found out is that the CL1B VU compensates slower time constants with a higher overshoot. This has some clear advantages: the slower overall movement of the needle makes it easier to follow the needle with you eyes and the overshooting ensures that the VU still shows remotely correct values. The overshooting also ensures that the change between rise and fall is performed smoothly. this also adds to the "grooviness".

For the release of VUMT I wanted to meet the most common specs (including no exceeding 1 to 1.5 overshoot) as closely as possible, creating a VU that shows the right values in every situation. But I do find the idea of extending the vu interpretation quite compelling. Maybe I shouldn't call a second mode "loose", because it could imply that the vu reacts sloppy and isn't correct.
to be clear: the second mode won't be an exact copy of the cl1b VU. That would be pointless. But it will perform groovier than the default one (which won't change) while still being close to vu specs.
Again, I'll try my best to make this plugin a vu, that everybody can feel comfortable with.
Old 11th September 2011
  #83
Gear Maniac
 
tonhelm's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LGK_Dude View Post
If the plugin is going to sit on every channel anyway due to using the trim knob for volume control, why not add some filters too and save adding another filter plugin after it? Seems to work well for Satson, but I guess I'm a nut for suggesting it....
First, the filters in Satson are absolutely gorgeous. But Satson already exists and it's an amazing tool. So there's no need to create another satson.
Second thing is, I want to keep VUMT's focus on metering and eventually add more control to the needle behaviour. Maybe also the trim function will get an update later on (a fine mode for more precise value input).

But I do like the idea of adding 16 oscillators. You can never have enough of that and I never saw a VU meter with 16 oscillators
Old 11th September 2011
  #84
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Cool, but it has to be 16 for Solo and 32 for Duo ... only 16 oscillators for stereo would just be archaic!
Old 11th September 2011
  #85
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonhelm View Post
First, the filters in Satson are absolutely gorgeous. But Satson already exists and it's an amazing tool. So there's no need to create another satson.
Second thing is, I want to keep VUMT's focus on metering and eventually add more control to the needle behaviour. Maybe also the trim function will get an update later on (a fine mode for more precise value input).

But I do like the idea of adding 16 oscillators. You can never have enough of that and I never saw a VU meter with 16 oscillators
I respect that you're the developer and can choose what your plugins do and dont do. I guess Satson is more of my tool then, though I wouldn't use its console saturation or buss plugins, but would only be using it as a VU meter with gain & filters. Thus I was hopeful some simple filters could be added to your VUMT as you already have great metering and trim control. I personally dont think thats copying Satson, as the heart of Satson is its console saturation.

Oh well. Thanks for creating a VU meter with a trim tool though. Its one step closer than most!
Old 11th September 2011
  #86
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LGK_Dude View Post
I would LOVE to see some basic low pass / high pass filters on this thing! Anyone else?
+1

With some quality HPF and LPF I would insert this as the first plugin in on all my channels, since I basically use HPF on most channels.

Just ordered, so I haven't tried it yet.
Old 11th September 2011
  #87
Gear Head
 

@tonhelm,

i guess you said it correctly, what's cool with CL1B VU is it is easier to read.
on VUMT it seems like there's less frame by second (i know it may not be that, but it describe the impression). The CL1B is smoother to look at, and at the end it is easier to adjust quickly a desired level.

Can't wait to see what the new mode will end up. I support your effort.

PJ
Old 13th September 2011
  #88
Gear Addict
 

My apologies for not reading the whole thread, but could someone answer this anyways:

Does this work inside Pro Tools with FXpansion's VST to RTAS Wrapper?
Old 13th September 2011
  #89
it looks nice but I can't rationalize buying any plugins that aren't RTAS any more. I'm just not going to deal with wrappers...
Old 14th September 2011
  #90
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyTheAvatar View Post
My apologies for not reading the whole thread, but could someone answer this anyways:

Does this work inside Pro Tools with FXpansion's VST to RTAS Wrapper?
Yes, works great in PT9 on Win7.
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