The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Dim D by ERS (Empty Room System) Discuss
Old 4th May 2011
  #91
Lives for gear
 
Froombosch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solar View Post
Hi Harrie!!

How r ya doing? Sent you a report, some weird behaving with Reaper but overall everything is running smooth. Will give it a try with Cubase 5.5.3 & Studio One during the day. Check your email k!

Cheers

MY
Thank you for the extensives report! I am working on the last bugs. The beta-testers did a great job and we are now close to release. Some last work needs to be done. I just send out probably the last testing version. I am very curious on how the last minor soundchanges are liked.
Old 5th May 2011
  #92
Hi Harrie. Working in Reaper xp2 just fine so far. No problems with the license screen crashing my system and it loads fine in large projects..
Sounds great!!
Old 7th May 2011
  #93
Gear Nut
 

Great to hear!!!thumbsup Any thing new on ETA?
Old 8th May 2011
  #94
Lives for gear
 
Froombosch's Avatar
 

The last bugs are sorted out. I am doing some finetuning on performance/automatisation. One tester has worked with more then 200 instances at 60% of the CPU power. This plug-in is light in CPU power, but not light in sound.

ETA next week. I am sending the second release candidate tomorrow to betatesters.

Harrie
Old 9th May 2011
  #95
Gear Maniac
 
lovespirals's Avatar
 

i eagerly await that mac au version. i used to use the dimension d hardware in the early 90's and totally loved it. i'm quite excited to get that sound back again!
Old 10th May 2011
  #96
Lives for gear
 
Froombosch's Avatar
 

The release Candidate 2 is send out tot the betatesters. VST bank support and better automatisation is added. I will also add the banksupport to the EMpTy 250 in the near future. For the testers: Do not forget to rightclick the knobs. There is a nice hidden feature!

Harrie
Old 10th May 2011
  #97
Gear Addict
 
rydan's Avatar
 

...first read entire thread, then post...

Last edited by rydan; 10th May 2011 at 10:44 AM.. Reason: stupidity
Old 10th May 2011
  #98
Lives for gear
 
Froombosch's Avatar
 

We are close to PC version. I am looking for MAC beta testers. It is prefered that they have an iLok, but it is not necessary. Please PM me or use the support e-mail on my web-site.
Old 10th May 2011
  #99
Lives for gear
 
Solar's Avatar
 

Software Dim D RC2 is a GO

Hey Harrie!!

Just stopped by to tell you that on my side The latest Dim D RC2 is a GO for PC users. Rock solid and everything on my side after deep testing since I got to the studio this morning has been responding amazingly. Check out your email.

Great job and Kudos for to my ears the best Chorus Sounding plugin.

Cheers
Old 10th May 2011
  #100
DSK
Lives for gear
 
DSK's Avatar
Same results over here!

Stable and sounding great.
Old 10th May 2011
  #101
Lives for gear
 
Froombosch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solar View Post
Hey Harrie!!

Just stopped by to tell you that on my side The latest Dim D RC2 is a GO for PC users. Rock solid and everything on my side after deep testing since I got to the studio this morning has been responding amazingly. Check out your email.

Great job and Kudos for to my ears the best Chorus Sounding plugin.

Cheers
I loved your screenshot with the CPUmeters on 14% while having 100 instances of the Dim D. That is not a computer, that is a mainframe!

I will wait a few more days to let the betatesters decide...

The manual is reworked and will take a few days also. So I guess friday will be releaseday when nothing serious pops-up.

Harrie
Old 10th May 2011
  #102
Lives for gear
 
Solar's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Froombosch View Post
I loved your screenshot with the CPUmeters on 14% while having 100 instances of the Dim D. That is not a computer, that is a mainframe!

I will wait a few more days to let the betatesters decide...

The manual is reworked and will take a few days also. So I guess friday will be releaseday when nothing serious pops-up.

Harrie
Hey Harrie!!! Even myself I simply couldn't not believe. And on top of that I had other software running in the back hahha a

Sounds good, i'll be using this RC2 anyways today all day, so if anything occurs i'll keep you posted

Cheers and great job again!!
Old 10th May 2011
  #103
Lives for gear
 
Froombosch's Avatar
 

Some people did make some soundsamples in another thread:

UAD Dim D vs. ERS Dim D
Old 11th May 2011
  #104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Froombosch View Post
Some people did make some soundsamples in another thread:

UAD Dim D vs. ERS Dim D
They don't sound like the same unit!
Old 11th May 2011
  #105
Lives for gear
 
Taurean's Avatar
Post

First off, thanks to Harrie for allowing me to Beta test this amazing plugin.


Sometimes in the traditional algo plugin land, there are attempts at recreating a piece of hardware. I want to say though, sometimes it isn't about 100% reproduction but at least mimicking the overall aspects of an analog counterpart. And having said that, ERS not only got damn close but again more importantly they have created a plugin that behaves more like analog gear in the sense of adding to the signal without taking something away which unfortunately isn't always the case with plugins: they add a certain something that takes away from the signal.

I dare to say that amongst other algorithmic plugins, the ERS one is by far the best one yet. And I'm a big UAD fan and of course user as well. But this gem, man it shines. What I found mostly with other Dim style plugins is that they take away punch and low end content from the signal and create a diffuse sound. Throughout this development ERS went through several gestations and variations of the plugin until they achieved this organic behavior of keeping punch relatively intact while adding the beautiful shimmering chorus effect. The typical diffusion of other attempted plugins while trying to recreate this effect was also a challenge with the ERS version at first. They ultimately nailed the solidity without artificially exaggerating the stereo image but subtly enhancing it. While most plugin versions of this effect created a distant and flattening effect, the ERS version remained more true to the fidelity. Anyway enough of me talking, here's just a very few samples of electric guitar. As far as plugins go I just went solely with UAD, because of the others available, I thought it was 2nd best:

I'll try and get some drums up too if anybody's interested. Unfortunately, I don't have access to the hardware right now but if anybody wants to take the dry files and process them, go ahead.
Attached Files

Guitar_DRY.wav (3.26 MB, 521 views)

ERSbeta2_Guitar_1.wav (3.26 MB, 605 views)

ERSbeta2_Guitar_2.wav (3.26 MB, 437 views)

ERSbeta2_Guitar_3.wav (3.26 MB, 402 views)

ERSbeta2_Guitar_4.wav (3.26 MB, 458 views)

UAD_Guitar_1.wav (3.26 MB, 509 views)

UAD_Guitar_2.wav (3.26 MB, 392 views)

UAD_Guitar_3.wav (3.26 MB, 409 views)

UAD_Guitar_4.wav (3.26 MB, 382 views)

Old 11th May 2011
  #106
Lives for gear
 
Froombosch's Avatar
 

What a nice words! With your permission I will set these quotes on my website. Release is very close now. The reports I had from betatesters all sound good. I'll wait a few days and will release it on friday.
Old 11th May 2011
  #107
Lives for gear
 
Solar's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Froombosch View Post
What a nice words! With your permission I will set these quotes on my website. Release is very close now. The reports I had from betatesters all sound good. I'll wait a few days and will release it on friday.
Hey Harrie!!

Impatiently seriously looking forward here. I've been with the latest RC2 since my last report and NADA, Todo bien

And indeed, won't say it enough, it is truly by far the BEST Chorus Effect i've yet to hear and everytime I load it up, my ears get amazed in whatever instrument you trough this baby on.

To me this is now history, it's now A CLASSIC must have

Looking forward the final Candidate!!


Cheers!

MY
Old 12th May 2011
  #108
DSK
Lives for gear
 
DSK's Avatar
You know what really nice thing I found out while playing with this plugin apart from the very nice stereo widening?

The fact that things sit really well into the mix and it retains full character of the original while adding good things...
Old 12th May 2011
  #109
Lives for gear
 
junior's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TranscendingM View Post
First off, thanks to Harrie for allowing me to Beta test this amazing plugin.


Sometimes in the traditional algo plugin land, there are attempts at recreating a piece of hardware. I want to say though, sometimes it isn't about 100% reproduction but at least mimicking the overall aspects of an analog counterpart. And having said that, ERS not only got damn close but again more importantly they have created a plugin that behaves more like analog gear in the sense of adding to the signal without taking something away which unfortunately isn't always the case with plugins: they add a certain something that takes away from the signal.

I dare to say that amongst other algorithmic plugins, the ERS one is by far the best one yet. And I'm a big UAD fan and of course user as well. But this gem, man it shines. What I found mostly with other Dim style plugins is that they take away punch and low end content from the signal and create a diffuse sound. Throughout this development ERS went through several gestations and variations of the plugin until they achieved this organic behavior of keeping punch relatively intact while adding the beautiful shimmering chorus effect. The typical diffusion of other attempted plugins while trying to recreate this effect was also a challenge with the ERS version at first. They ultimately nailed the solidity without artificially exaggerating the stereo image but subtly enhancing it. While most plugin versions of this effect created a distant and flattening effect, the ERS version remained more true to the fidelity. Anyway enough of me talking, here's just a very few samples of electric guitar. As far as plugins go I just went solely with UAD, because of the others available, I thought it was 2nd best:

I'll try and get some drums up too if anybody's interested. Unfortunately, I don't have access to the hardware right now but if anybody wants to take the dry files and process them, go ahead.
Thanks for sharing. There's a pretty big difference between the two. Curious to hear how different they are to the real deal...

+1 for a Mac VST version - hopefully NOT iLok.
Old 12th May 2011
  #110
Lives for gear
 
Taurean's Avatar
Thumbs up

yea no problem ... So I remembered a clip that was posted regarding the Dim. Check out this sweep, first dry of course, then going through the hardware [HW], as well as UAD Dim and the ERS. This is utilizing setting 1. It's really remarkable how it retains a certain "meatiness" and organic quality like the HW!
Attached Files

Sweep_DRY.wav (1.02 MB, 312 views)

Sweep_HW_1.wav (1.07 MB, 335 views)

Sweep_ERSbeta2_1.wav (1.02 MB, 290 views)

Sweep_UAD_1.wav (1.02 MB, 344 views)

Old 12th May 2011
  #111
Gear Head
 
TripACT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TranscendingM View Post
yea no problem ... So I remembered a clip that was posted regarding the Dim. Check out this sweep, first dry of course, then going through the hardware [HW], as well as UAD Dim and the ERS. This is utilizing setting 1. It's really remarkable how it retains a certain "meatiness" and organic quality like the HW!
Thats quite interesting !

The ERS sample sounds closer on its behaviour and its definition.
while
the UAD sample sounds closer with how it handles the top frequency end but smears the middle frequency range.

With the hardware version you can hear how it sweeten the top end making it softer in a very pleasant and musical way..the UAD does that pretty much close but the chorus itself algo sounds different...

Interestingly enough, the UAD frequency response is very unique...
I own the UAD plugin so i just checked with an analyzer's the UAD version's frequency response and attached a plot to get some idea....

Also another thing i noticed is the ERS sounds hmm adunno...perhaps.."drier" than the HW unit...i guess its more a notion of the stereo image..i guess the chorus algorithm on L & R alters more widely on the HW.....
on the UAD version..its too much already and becomes "too obvious" chorus tone....kind of swirl thing..... which is also very nice but...not the exact behavior of the original box.

I hope you could nail these two things and your plugin will be superb! i think it is already :-)


These are the missing link in ERS version in order to nail completely the behavior of the hardware !

EDIT: weird but lookin on the frequency response of the UAD i could hardly imagine how it would soften the top frequency end.... but strangely enough it somehow does...
I believe it what makes the UAD version to sound like it smears some frequencies in the middle ...causing the sound itself to have less definition and focus..
Judging by the plot, it looks like there would be some unwanted phase cancellations as well....
The frequency response of the UAD version is dynamic and always randomly changing in subtle amounts...thats the chorus behavior.

EDIT2: after listening more and more, i tend to feel like there's some tiny delay between L & R on the HW version ...sounds that way 'bigger'...fascinating !
good thing would be to test the HW and ERS units with a very short and percussive sample!
Attached Images
Old 12th May 2011
  #112
Lives for gear
 
Froombosch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TranscendingM View Post
Throughout this development ERS went through several gestations and variations of the plugin until they achieved this organic behavior of keeping punch relatively intact while adding the beautiful shimmering chorus effect.
Maybe interesting.. some more information regarding the development. English is not my first language and I am not a good storyteller, but maybe it is interesting.

The development of the Dim D has gone thru several stages. I have build the Dimension D for the H8000 long time ago and have the schematics. I have an electronics degree, so I figured out how the SDD-320 works and did a lot of calculations on filters. This was the base of the H8000 version.

The porting over to VST was doable for me after restudying my work and the enhancements I made for the EMpTy 250. Luckaly a few betatesters with hardware SDD-320's showed me that the sound of the first betas was not spot-on. I fired up my old computer and modelled some of the electrical parts in PSPICE. Some of my basic handdone calculations where not fully correct. After correcting this error,the proces with a listeningteam started. With a small group of engineers we started testing and enhancing the sound. After the EMpTy 250 development we work that way. Relative short periods of time and intense listening and tweaking. Several good ears together are hearing more then I can.

Combined with some enhancements and bugreducing this lead to the Release Candidate. We still hear some parts that can be improved, but we are convinced this is a great product, so we are going to release it.


Harrie
Old 12th May 2011
  #113
Lives for gear
 
Froombosch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TripACT View Post
EDIT: weird but lookin on the frequency response of the UAD i could hardly imagine how it would soften the top frequency end.... but strangely enough it somehow does...
That is the typical beheavior of a lineair interpolation filter. That is the digital equivalent of the BBD. There is also high frequency filtering going on.

Beta 2 is not the same as the RC2 version. The RC2 version is tweaked to be frequency correct. @Trancending: Is this the RC2 or the Beta2 version?

Thank you for posting the files!


Harrie
Old 12th May 2011
  #114
Lives for gear
 
Taurean's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Froombosch View Post
1. That is the typical beheavior of a lineair interpolation filter.

2. That beheavior is not in the schematic. If you have the HW unit I would love to have a dirac sample put thru it. Small drifting of electronic components could lead to small differences.

Beta 2 is not the same as the RC2 version. The RC2 version is tweaked to be frequency correct. @Trancending: Is this the RC2 or the Beta2 version?

Thank you for posting the files!


Harrie
Yep I had done the samples with the 2nd to last version, the beta 2...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Froombosch View Post
We still hear some parts that can be improved, but we are convinced this is a great product, so we are going to release it
I totally agree with this.. Aside from the frequency quirk that was apparently corrected anyway in the final version, even considering a few small tweaks will really perfect this plugin. But it's so good now and as I said, IMO, the best in the algo plugin league that it is a totally legit release.
Old 12th May 2011
  #115
Gear Head
 
TripACT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Froombosch View Post
1. That is the typical beheavior of a lineair interpolation filter.

2. That beheavior is not in the schematic. If you have the HW unit I would love to have a dirac sample put thru it. Small drifting of electronic components could lead to small differences between the two delaylines.

Beta 2 is not the same as the RC2 version. The RC2 version is tweaked to be frequency correct. @Trancending: Is this the RC2 or the Beta2 version?

Thank you for posting the files!


Harrie

Hi Harrie,

i was reffering to TranscendingM's sample he posted...i wouldnt know which version of ERS beta did HE use but i'd guess that would be the RC2....he should pop in and tell :-)

Sorry but i do not own the real box, but just own the UAD plugin...

If you need another beta tester for sound tweaking feedback, i'd gladly help with that.

Anyway, i can imagine i'd buy it when its out
Old 12th May 2011
  #116
Lives for gear
 
Froombosch's Avatar
 

The RC2 is frequencywise tuned and different from the beta 2. Friday/Saterday it will be released and I will put a demo on our site. Everybody can listen and decide for themselves. The demo will have time and functionality limitations just like with the EMpTy 250.
Old 12th May 2011
  #117
Lives for gear
 
Taurean's Avatar
Lightbulb Release Version

Okay I've re-uploaded examples with the RC2. These examples are more reflective of the final release version which I just now used to make more clips. I'm even more blown away! heh
And I decided to leave up the beta2 version examples above if it's okay with you Harrie because it's a small insight into the sonic development of this plugin; hearing the differences.

Please use the "DRY Guitar" "UAD "Guitar" samples from above for comparscent, they are obviously the same so I didn't upload them again.

Also for the sweep I added position 4 for the hardware and ERS which really conveys what this plugin can do when comparing to the hardware. Keep in mind, position 1 for the HW sweep is the same and can be downloaded above from my previous post.
Attached Files

Guitars_ERSRC2_1.wav (3.26 MB, 250 views)

Guitars_ERSRC2_2.wav (3.26 MB, 225 views)

Guitars_ERSRC2_3.wav (3.26 MB, 221 views)

Guitars_ERSRC2_4.wav (3.26 MB, 232 views)

Sweep_HW_4.wav (939.6 KB, 219 views)

Sweep_ERSRC2_4.wav (1.02 MB, 225 views)

Old 12th May 2011
  #118
Lives for gear
 
Froombosch's Avatar
 

Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by TranscendingM View Post
Okay I've re-uploaded examples with the RC2. These examples are more reflective of the final release version which I just now used to make more clips.
Awsome! This will be the release version.
Old 13th May 2011
  #119
Gear Head
 
TripACT's Avatar
 

w0w

i mean..just wow...

RC2 sounds much closer to HW than the Beta 2, no doubt !!!
Good job...


Stereo image sounds very similar now and also pretty much the top end.
The chorus blend and alteration is nailed as well!

One thing tho,
The HW sounds more gentle on the lows and highs and thats the very last difference left between the real thing and ERS....

Thats something i always notice when comparing digital emulation of analog box versus the analog box itself...pretty much..the analog box adds some warmth somehow due to the electrical components saturation and some non-linearities...

I heard that also with the comparison of the UAD Harrison EQ vs. the real Harrison EQ....same thing...the plugin always sounds "newer" or perhaps more "digital" ...if that makes any sense..

I think, if you'll add a toggle for "analog warmth" that would be awesome addition and the last step to nail it completely!

Without that kind of "warmth" ERS sounds "newer" than the vintage box..
while if someone looks for the vintage warmth tone, he could turn on the "analog warmth" switch and have that mojo....

Other than that, amazing work !!!
Old 13th May 2011
  #120
Lives for gear
 
Froombosch's Avatar
 

Good ears! That is the part I want to change in the future. I know how to nail it, but it is a lot of work. It would hold the product back at least a month or two. There is a lot of other important work as well, so I decided to do this in the future.

I build this version in such a way, that the future update will be backward compatible. You will find a modern/vintage switch in the parametersection that is not working yet.

Harrie
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump