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Korg Kronos Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 14th January 2011
  #31
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zephonic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by laboso View Post
Seems like everything is Back in Black huh?? Black Motif, black Virus, black Kronos! I bet the next Roland will be black too...
Thank God for that. I hated those shiny surfaces and they are a pain in the eyes under bright stage lighting or direct sunlight.
Old 15th January 2011
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muziksculp View Post
Maybe I'm alone in my point of view, but... I really don't get it, why are workstations still focusing on B3 style organs ? I never like organs, and very little of today's modern/contemporary music uses organ sounds...
A lot of "today's modern/contemporary music" is not so hot or at least people don't want to buy it (for numerous reasons.) So maybe more music with organs will do the trick. heh
Old 15th January 2011
  #33
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I think that Yamaha and Roland need to get busy.
- KORG - World leader of Musical Instruments
Korg Forums :: Index



http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2011/...mighty-kronos/

Changing the game for Workstations and it will be
a tough act to follow.

Peace & blessings.
Old 15th January 2011
  #34
Firstly: Does anyone else think that the sounds demoed in that official video were uniformly mediocre/uninspired? Nothing jumped out as being actually good at all.

Secondly: In my as I can see, Jordan Rudess' opinion is now utterly worthless. He is featured in just about every single keyboard/synth release/artist video for every product released in the last five-odd years. New bit of gear for keyboardists? Shove one in Jordan Rudess' hands and he'll wax lyrical about it in some cheesy video at the drop of a b-flat. The guy is a glorified product demoer.
Old 15th January 2011
  #35
OMU
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A game changer?

They finally succeeded in making a keyboard sound like a computer. I laughed when they introduced the Legacy Collection plugins in Oasis. They presented it like something extraordinary. Now they present them the same way.

Still having a laptop and a midi kb costs less, weights less and can do much more.
Old 15th January 2011
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the tortoise View Post
Firstly: Does anyone else think that the sounds demoed in that official video were uniformly mediocre/uninspired? Nothing jumped out as being actually good at all.

Secondly: In my as I can see, Jordan Rudess' opinion is now utterly worthless. He is featured in just about every single keyboard/synth release/artist video for every product released in the last five-odd years. New bit of gear for keyboardists? Shove one in Jordan Rudess' hands and he'll wax lyrical about it in some cheesy video at the drop of a b-flat. The guy is a glorified product demoer.
the tortoise: I see your point my brotha
It seems that Jordan Rudess, who is an excellent musician will go to whoever is paying the money to demo at NAMM....he's a equipment Wh*re junky, like most of us in one way or another...Lol
No video and demo over the a airways will give you a true picture, I wouldn't have never bought most of my gear if I didn't go to the store and spend time playing and comparing it with other instrument available.
Example, Yamaha XS, in the store I was able to play, touch, view and listen and did the same with the Fantom, the M3, and a few other keyboards, all within the same audio system settings, then decided on the Motif XS.
Being honest some sounds on the Korg Kronos video sparked my curiosity, but for me, the final decision will be made in the store.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OMU View Post
A game changer?
They finally succeeded in making a keyboard sound like a computer. I laughed when they introduced the Legacy Collection plugins in Oasis. They presented it like something extraordinary. Now they present them the same way.
Still having a laptop and a midi kb costs less, weights less and can do much more.
OMU: I agree, especially now that the SSD's and power laptops (Desk top replacements) are finally dropping in price, it seems that workstations like this is going to be geared mostly to live performers.

Peace & blessings.
Old 16th January 2011
  #37
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by the tortoise View Post
Firstly: Does anyone else think that the sounds demoed in that official video were uniformly mediocre/uninspired? Nothing jumped out as being actually good at all.

Secondly: In my as I can see, Jordan Rudess' opinion is now utterly worthless. He is featured in just about every single keyboard/synth release/artist video for every product released in the last five-odd years. New bit of gear for keyboardists? Shove one in Jordan Rudess' hands and he'll wax lyrical about it in some cheesy video at the drop of a b-flat. The guy is a glorified product demoer.
You spoke my thoughts exactly. Right on.

First, the sounds of this new Korg, like all Korgs in my opinion, are drab.

And let me now go on record for something that I "know" and have believed for a long time - Rudess knows nothing about composition. He is to the keys, as Yngwie Malmsteen is to guitar. Both are complete legends in their mastery of technicianship. Mind boggling incredible chops.

But neither can write a good song. They should take lessons from people like Madonna, Michael Jackson, the Cars. Catch my drift? Their music (Rudess and Malmsteen's) is so abstract and vague that they lose their audience, which is the death of a composer. When the listener's mind starts to drift, that's bad. I gave my two Dream Theater CD's away. I hated them. I've listened to their newer stuff on Youtube, including Rudess' solo stuff. No different.

As for the product demo thing, I see that, too. Seems like he is used to launch A LOT of different keyboards.

He does take credit, though, I believe, for getting Kurzweil and Korg to have worked on the improvement of changing patches without the sound dying out. He was speaking about that a long time ago and had hoped Kurzweil would have brought it to the foreground years ago.
Old 16th January 2011
  #38
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Denny C's Avatar
Wow, I am a bit surprised or should I say probably figured it would be this way. I listened to a couple of clips and I thought this new Korg is a cool option. One of my neighbors works for one of the big three(Korg, Yamaha, Roland) and I probably could get a super deal on one of his. However, I overall prefer the Korg sounds myself. I've had both Rolands and Yamahas and they are very cool sounding...but for me I have a Korg as my main board and I am happy with it. It would be a voyage into variety to have this new Kronos along with the new Yamaha and Roland Fantom G. This new Korg looks like it will bring in quite a few sales. BTW, I love the customer service Korg offers for their boards! thumbsupthumbsup
Old 17th January 2011
  #39
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Am I the only keyboard player here? Because what I'm reading doesn't sound like ANY of you play!

The only thing I can agree with in this thread is Rudess being a gear pimp and though talented his music is without soul. By the way, I hope that guy didn't give away the first two albums with James Le Brie and Kevin Moore on it. Those are their best ones and IMO masterpieces.

As a keyboard player to say I'm excited to see an affordable 2nd generation Oasys that's giggable is an understatement. It will EASILY be the most significant keyboard within the last 10 years.

FWIW I don't like the "Computer Sounding" Karma either. That's what makes it sound like a Computer IMO. But with all those modeling engines how can anyone not think it's progress? It's very possible Kronos will redefine what a workstation should be.

Honestly the best the manufacturers have had to offer was the Motif series (IMO) which of that the only thing notable were the sample based instruments. They tried the EX5, but it was ahead of its time. Roland started putting some modeling technologies (supernatural)into their workstations but it was only a taste of their technology. Kurzweil has KB3 and VA1 but most of the tech is pretty old.

Kronos should raise the bar on Organs, Pianos, EPs, and Analog synth sounds commonly found in "Workstations".

Anyone who thinks a laptop with VSTis would be anyway near the same UNIVERSE is kidding themselves!
Old 17th January 2011
  #40
OMU
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Indeed, the only perspective where a real progress can be seen is if you look at it as a keyboard player. I suppose that's the targeted market sector. Progress here means adding 9 plugins in this thing.

As for the work-station, a laptop with a keyboard blows it away. Not only in terms of sound and features but also as far as portability is concerned (composing on the road etc).
Old 17th January 2011
  #41
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Animus's Avatar
 

wow, imo some pretty horrible sounding stuff in there for the most part.
Old 17th January 2011
  #42
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SortaLucid34's Avatar
 

The specs on this are very impressive but Keyboard companies (and even players sometimes...) just don't get it when it comes to aesthetics.

I will say this... the acoustic piano sounds amazing. Its very present and strong. Ill give them full credit on that. That jazz pianist was a beast too.

Everything else though... just nothing special or super cheesy. And you HAVE to get a different person to do your demos. NO ONE wants to watch a balding dude doing his "oh face" during the demo when he's playing a synth sound that sounds like the thing they play in in the theater before the movie.

If someone were to go understated, and show the thing being used musically... i.e. in an actual musical context, it would work a lot better.

And btw... that drummer who played with the jazz pianist... he made that drum machine sound like a million bucks. He was grooving completely... now THAT's impressive.
Old 17th January 2011
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NuSkoolTone View Post
Am I the only keyboard player here? Because what I'm reading doesn't sound like ANY of you play!

............................

Anyone who thinks a laptop with VSTis would be anyway near the same UNIVERSE is kidding themselves!

Depends..... if you are a gigging keyboard player I can understand you feeling that way... I never ever really liked the sounds of the Tritons (although I did the fantoms and the motif's), BUT the triton was my favourite gigging keyboard (well what would be on my rider sheet) if for no other reason than the ease because of the touch screen.
And I do agree for the gigging keyboardist this is better than a laptop for many (it isn't going to crash, less fragile etc). but for the studio keyboardist, I can't even slightly agree with you...vsti's are much more versatile and imho about two years started to sound 'better' than hardware.. granted I haven't heard the kronos in person so I can be wrong, but based on the videos, I agree with you in respect to gigging keyboardist and humbly disagree for studio keyboardist.
rsp
Old 17th January 2011
  #44
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Denny C's Avatar
Mrnuskooltone: You made quite a few interesting observations....

"Am I the only keyboard player here? Because what I'm reading doesn't sound like ANY of you play!"

Obviously, probably any of these posters on this thread "play"; and I'm sure there are some that surpass your level of expertise.

"As a keyboard player to say I'm excited to see an affordable 2nd generation Oasys that's giggable is an understatement. It will EASILY be the most significant keyboard within the last 10 years."

This is very similar to what I had said in the post previous to yours. As far as slamming the Karma thing, you can just turn it off or not use it if it doesn't fit your application. For me, I like an abundance of options as well as nice sounding colors to choose from. I do have an Oasys 76, and thoroughly enjoy it--sacrificed a number of my vintage keys to acquire it. Overall, I would have to say the advantages far outweigh the loss of my other boards.

I wouldn't rip on Jordan too much. The guy is super talented and likes to make money, what's wrong with that? Maybe his style is not up to your liking, but you are missing what makes music great....subjectivity, creativity, preference, and variety. As far as 'gigging' keyboard or a 'studio' keyboard, any journeyman keyboardist could function on a 'gig' with a Triton, a Fantom G, a Yamaha XS, an Oasys, a Kronos, a Kurzweil, or even a Nord! And this would hold true for the 'studio' keyboard as well.

Much success to you in your musical endeavors. thumbsupthumbsup
Old 18th January 2011
  #45
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If the 61 key starts at more than $3100,Korg helped Yamaha. What good is it to be able to make a bell sound like the growling belly of a horrid demonic space calf before taking a ****? Only so many soundtracks to go around in the industry. The layout of a workstation must inspire creation and songwriting, not some spaced out garbage. If the workstation created a workflow in which any producer from Hip Hop to Pop to Orchestral could build on ideas and implement them in a creative and simple environment then the workstation would rule. And I should get payed for this following advice. Follow Apogee you fools! The age of bringing in the new and out with the old is for the viper mentality of the past! Create a workstation that can be upgraded for future implementation and integration. You aint fooling no one. Computers are too powerful and too cheap and too easy to upgrade for little cost. In other words the Kronos should have been modular. I give it 2.5 from the video I saw. When I see it in person, and if it is a studio tool then I will bump it up to a 4.
Old 18th January 2011
  #46
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Btw, for the keyboard players, beyond great tool. For the studio musicians, I don't see it making much of an impact Even with the all new clavs, ep's, piano(sounded amazing tho) and organs. Kronos seems all for live playing, all else, labtop and keyboard.
Old 19th January 2011
  #47
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man in the house's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by youngmain View Post
What good is it to be able to make a bell sound like the growling belly of a horrid demonic space calf before taking a ****?
lol, can i please use that as the name for my new track?
Old 19th January 2011
  #48
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Shaggy2039's Avatar
"****ing Thing Sucks!!!" - Bill O'Reilly
Old 19th January 2011
  #49
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by youngmain View Post
Btw, for the keyboard players, beyond great tool. For the studio musicians, I don't see it making much of an impact Even with the all new clavs, ep's, piano(sounded amazing tho) and organs. Kronos seems all for live playing, all else, labtop and keyboard.
I'd appreciate it if you could paste the link from GS in here addressing my question, seeing as I'll bet my question has already been addressed in some other threads. If not, feel free to answer yourself:

I've been a hardware keyboardist since 1985. Love 'em.

Also became a computer geek starting in 1985.

My present PC is from 2004. A P4 3.0 Ghz Dell XPS. Has been fine for my limited musical needs, i.e. still running Cakewalk Sonar 3.

I hear a lot from you guys on how fantastic you believe your computers are in doing the things we keyboardists have done, and started, since the 1970's, or earlier. Synthesis, I'm talking about.

So if I wanted to get into what you are into, tell me what I would be looking at, please. Start with what type of computer relative to the type of software, to do the equivalent of a Kurzweil PC3, if you could.

I'm very much interested in pursuing this (comptuer music studio) more seriously, but just never warmed up to the idea for some reason.

What is the actual cost, do you think? I would estimate it to be around $4,000 for a new computer, pro sound card, and then good software, too. Y'think? Oh, and then an 88-key MIDI controller, too. Gotta remember, if a person is going to consider his computer lab a "studio", one has to be able to accommodate the pianist who is going to play on the recording. Maybe the cost is actually around $5,000.

'Gotta admit, the idea of packing a high-end laptop with a 25 or even 49-key MIDI controller in a backpack, sitting at Denny's restaurant late at night while drinking coffee and working on music, is a major temptation to me. <grin>
Old 19th January 2011
  #50
Gear Maniac
 

Oh

Another comment on the subject, a few above.

Keyboard magazine issue, about 2 years ago (the one which had Rick Wakeman's score of Roundabout printed in it), did a piece on one of their own magazine editors, a keyboardist who was working with YES, helping and adding sound, etc.

He says in that aritcle that Jon Anderson told him to stop messing around with the synthesizers, and just try to play the piece that they were working on, right, proper like. Jon told him, "We want to hear what you can do just with the basic piano or keyboard sound. If you can impress us with that, it will only get better when you find great sounds to use."

The point comes back (as always) to the truth - composition is done in the mind & heart, and translated via the medium, usually through fingers.

Beethoven and Mozart (and others, too) could "hear" whole pieces in their head, and transcribe to paper because they UNDERSTOOD what made for great music. When you add the greatest vocalists as compared with mediocre singers, or the best violin player, it only gets better (this is the equivalent of what Anderson was saying).

How we all wish that MUSIC training had been going on for the last couple of generations, instead of skipping it altogether under the belief in a lie, that RAP or Hip Hop is legitimate music. It's not. And so there is a ridiculously large number of untalented people in the "music" industry. Music is not exactly subjective. There is in fact a right and wrong. But the lie that anybody can do anything and call it art, and no criticism can be put forth, etc, etc., we now have 20+ years of crap. A whole 2 decades or more of lost art. Of course there are always exceptions. You all know what I mean.

By the way, I bought an MP3 of Rihanna's song "Shut Up And Drive". I actually think this song is very catchy and has some winning ideas in it. BUT, the engineer(s) knew nothing about sound. Why? I put the song in my new car stereo, and the speakers are ready to fall apart and break because the BASS is way up in the distortion levels. Way up! These numbskulls must think that pushing Bass into the red is the equivalent of mixing in some ultra low frequencies of sub-woofer. How did they ever get a job???

End of my rant.
Old 19th January 2011
  #51
Gear Head
 

Its right up my alley as far as the elements go, but its a really uninspiring looking piece of blah. Come on korg, its 2011! What a butter face!
Old 19th January 2011
  #52
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SortaLucid34 View Post
The specs on this are very impressive but Keyboard companies (and even players sometimes...) just don't get it when it comes to aesthetics.

I will say this... the acoustic piano sounds amazing. Its very present and strong. Ill give them full credit on that. That jazz pianist was a beast too.

Everything else though... just nothing special or super cheesy. And you HAVE to get a different person to do your demos. NO ONE wants to watch a balding dude doing his "oh face" during the demo when he's playing a synth sound that sounds like the thing they play in in the theater before the movie.

If someone were to go understated, and show the thing being used musically... i.e. in an actual musical context, it would work a lot better.

And btw... that drummer who played with the jazz pianist... he made that drum machine sound like a million bucks. He was grooving completely... now THAT's impressive.
+1 thumbsup
Old 19th January 2011
  #53
Lives for gear
Yo Todd, I'm Uh give you some basic and effective advice: don't spend too much money. That's where I ****ed up and fellow gearslutz will capitalize. You must figure out your needs, but a Mac book, midi keyboard from eBay, and some Vstis should get you in for less than $2500. Easy. Peace. Btw, you are right, we have spent far too much time getting away from what got us here. I'm out.
Old 19th January 2011
  #54
Gear Maniac
 
man in the house's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toddskins View Post
Another comment on the subject, a few above.

Keyboard magazine issue, about 2 years ago (the one which had Rick Wakeman's score of Roundabout printed in it), did a piece on one of their own magazine editors, a keyboardist who was working with YES, helping and adding sound, etc.

He says in that aritcle that Jon Anderson told him to stop messing around with the synthesizers, and just try to play the piece that they were working on, right, proper like. Jon told him, "We want to hear what you can do just with the basic piano or keyboard sound. If you can impress us with that, it will only get better when you find great sounds to use."

The point comes back (as always) to the truth - composition is done in the mind & heart, and translated via the medium, usually through fingers.

Beethoven and Mozart (and others, too) could "hear" whole pieces in their head, and transcribe to paper because they UNDERSTOOD what made for great music. When you add the greatest vocalists as compared with mediocre singers, or the best violin player, it only gets better (this is the equivalent of what Anderson was saying).

How we all wish that MUSIC training had been going on for the last couple of generations, instead of skipping it altogether under the belief in a lie, that RAP or Hip Hop is legitimate music. It's not. And so there is a ridiculously large number of untalented people in the "music" industry. Music is not exactly subjective. There is in fact a right and wrong. But the lie that anybody can do anything and call it art, and no criticism can be put forth, etc, etc., we now have 20+ years of crap. A whole 2 decades or more of lost art. Of course there are always exceptions. You all know what I mean.

By the way, I bought an MP3 of Rihanna's song "Shut Up And Drive". I actually think this song is very catchy and has some winning ideas in it. BUT, the engineer(s) knew nothing about sound. Why? I put the song in my new car stereo, and the speakers are ready to fall apart and break because the BASS is way up in the distortion levels. Way up! These numbskulls must think that pushing Bass into the red is the equivalent of mixing in some ultra low frequencies of sub-woofer. How did they ever get a job???

End of my rant.
i know it's a rant, but it's pretty embarrasing bs nonetheless
Old 21st January 2011
  #55
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Cool

It looks great, like a good, integrated, portable (at least the 61-key variant) system, for those who don't want to deal with the integration complexities of software.

OTOH Komplete 7 outstrips this by a lightyear, in terms of features and content available from scratch. I'm at the point, personally, where I'd rather spend the time with K7 than the money with Korg.

Best of luck to 'em, though!
Old 23rd January 2011
  #56
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NuSkoolTone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zvenx View Post
Depends..... if you are a gigging keyboard player I can understand you feeling that way... *SNIP*
I do agree for the gigging keyboardist this is better than a laptop for many (it isn't going to crash, less fragile etc). but for the studio keyboardist, I can't even slightly agree with you...vsti's are much more versatile and imho about two years started to sound 'better' than hardware.. granted I haven't heard the kronos in person so I can be wrong, but based on the videos, I agree with you in respect to gigging keyboardist and humbly disagree for studio keyboardist.
rsp
You're probably right. I haven't re-visited VSTi's in a few years. They always seemed to have reliability issues with modest hardware and the "Take your breath away" type libraries have become prohibitively expensive.

For studio, I can't see a hardware keyboard comparing with $10,000 sample libraries. They're suitable for film soundtracks and sometimes a viable replacement for real orchestral recordings, but that's far beyond the scope of what I do. Hence my Bias. Though I can certainly appreciate your point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny C View Post
[I]This is very similar to what I had said in the post previous to yours.
*SNIP*

I wouldn't rip on Jordan too much. The guy is super talented and likes to make money, what's wrong with that? Maybe his style is not up to your liking, but you are missing what makes music great....subjectivity, creativity, preference, and variety.
Sorry Denny, I was addressing the posts previous to yours.

No slight on Jordan's talent, he's the steve vai of keyboards IMO. There's nothing wrong with making money, everyone needs to make a living. Though when someone just becomes a shill, the credibility of what they're saying about the product is diminished. Jordan could make a casio in best buy sound impressive! Though his demos rarely let the true tonality of the keyboard shine through. So for the purpose of getting a sense for an unreleased keyboard I can't demo myself, it's a letdown from that perspective. I own many albums with Jordan on them and appreciate them, they're just not my favorites.
Old 23rd January 2011
  #57
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From an evolutionary perspective, the KRONOS is quite significant, streaming samples from SSD in a HW-Workstation has never been possible. This is imho. a major tech. breakthrough. Bravo Korg engineers

Now, Switching to evaluating the new KRONOS from a purely sonic-perspective, i.e. How are the acoustic sounds on that 30 GB SSD in the belly of the KRONOS ? OK, so 4.5 or so are PIANO samples. But then what ? How do the (Strings, Brass, Woodwinds, Guitars, Basses, Drum Kits, Percussion Kits, Choirs & Voices, ...etc etc., Sound ?

I'm very interested in adding a KORG keyboard to my setup, which is currently (Yamaha Motif XS7 soon will upgrade to XF7, and I also use the Virus Ti Keyboard). I have also been thinking about the new Korg PA3X Arranger, which I feel might have better sounding acoustic instruments than the KRONOS, (based purely on speculation that Korg, Yamaha, Roland) seem to offer better acoustic sounds in their Arranger lines. (beats me why they choose to do so ?) but then again, I have no clue if this will be the case when comparing the KRONOS to the PA3X acoustic sounds.

Software samplers are still the way to go if high-quality, very realistic acoustic instruments such as orchestral instruments are needed i.e. for serious soundtrack/trailer projects.
Old 23rd January 2011
  #58
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GYang's Avatar
Game Changer
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G a m e . C h a n g e r

It should sound at least good in the mix as Kurzweil to change the game.
Performers will find it interesting as it is loaded with everything, but studio guys and electronic music producers will unlikelly be impressed so much.
Actually I was somehow bored by presentation.
Old 23rd January 2011
  #59
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muziksculp's Avatar
 

I wonder what the next ROLAND workstation will offer ?

They have been very quiet
Old 23rd January 2011
  #60
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depulse's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by muziksculp View Post
I wonder what the next ROLAND workstation will offer ?

They have been very quiet
Roland will make an interesting workstation the day Korg makes a MIDI accordion....
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