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New Tape Emulation - "Roundtone" Saturation Plugins
Old 13th March 2012
  #991
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quintosardo View Post
Er... I don't know...

Seriously, never understood if the gears used during such analysis can be named or not, I prefer to avoid it. Doesn't add anything to the result, anyway. Even the GTS-39, which is a specific model, isn't explicitly related to it.
Yes... You can mention it. Imagine if we couldn't mention gear we were using (analysis or otherwise) on Gearslutz.
Old 14th March 2012
  #992
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quintosardo's Avatar
 

I see the ATS1 is explicitly referred to the devices it emulates.

That device is really attractive and the review on Sound on Sound is incredible.
What a nice concept, analog emulation. This audio world become a drug, so many possibilities today...

Oh, talking about hysteresis. Are there inductors in the ATS1 for that?
Sorry for hijacking myself but I think the discussion is general and interesting...
Old 14th March 2012
  #993
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Taurean's Avatar
Now I'm paranoid
What if that's a Quinto emulation created by Quinto hijacking his own thread???

Quintone
Old 14th March 2012
  #994
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JanZoo's Avatar
Quinto,
Like you said to me in email stripbus start saturating at -18 dbfs, and what level does roundtone start saturating ? I wrote it here, becase maybe someone will find the information useful.
Greets
Old 14th March 2012
  #995
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quintosardo View Post
I see the ATS1 is explicitly referred to the devices it emulates.

That device is really attractive and the review on Sound on Sound is incredible.
What a nice concept, analog emulation. This audio world become a drug, so many possibilities today...

Oh, talking about hysteresis. Are there inductors in the ATS1 for that?
Sorry for hijacking myself but I think the discussion is general and interesting...
No. It's modeled using analog computing techniques. No inductors necessary. Same math as a plugin.
Old 14th March 2012
  #996
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quintosardo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_Amels View Post
No. It's modeled using analog computing techniques. No inductors necessary. Same math as a plugin.
Oh, yes, now I'm getting the concept a bit better, after reading the manual, too.
We are so used to hearing of analog and to some analog emulations through analog equivalents, like inductors in place of tape heads and such.
I know and used this kind of computing (just for educational purposes) but I still didn't grasp the full concept of that product line for some reasons.

They are analog computers. Fantastic. I'm sure some people don't really get how different that line is from everything else. But probably it doesn't matter, given the reviews you get about audio.

One thing which looks strange to me is my feeling that you don't stress the benefits coming from the absolute absence of the concept of aliasing. Isn't it one of the main sources of strength of the whole concept and reasons for the good sound, apart from the good algorithms?
Old 14th March 2012
  #997
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quintosardo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JanZoo View Post
Quinto,
Like you said to me in email stripbus start saturating at -18 dbfs, and what level does roundtone start saturating ? I wrote it here, becase maybe someone will find the information useful.
Greets
To be more precise, Strip starts saturating at about -18dBfs when its offset menu is set to 0dB. Bus doesn't saturate at all if its drive knob is at zero (not talking about the dynamics, of course ). Roundtone starts saturating near -18dBfs, but it is getting a good meter to avoid this blind saturation. Maybe Strip needs a meter for this, too, even though it is a lot more complex because its saturation is related to the other instances, too.
Old 14th March 2012
  #998
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quintosardo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TranscendingM View Post
Now I'm paranoid
What if that's a Quinto emulation created by Quinto hijacking his own thread???

Quintone
?

Old 14th March 2012
  #999
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JanZoo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by quintosardo View Post
To be more precise, Strip starts saturating at about -18dBfs when its offset menu is set to 0dB. Bus doesn't saturate at all if its drive knob is at zero (not talking about the dynamics, of course ). Roundtone starts saturating near -18dBfs, but it is getting a good meter to avoid this blind saturation. Maybe Strip needs a meter for this, too, even though it is a lot more complex because its saturation is related to the other instances, too.
I totally understood how the strip works, it is flawless piece of tool, and I'm still learning on how to use roundtone. I do mostly hiphop/urban music, but also a lot of guitar pop/rock. I tried it on hiphop mix, but like this, I rolled off some low end on the master bus, then added roundtone, 15 IPS hard algorithm ( I like it a lot) I tried to saturate it as much as it is possible with turning the input up but without OL flashing, and then I added a eq to compensate the low end and this time the high end because I used "action" knob a lot (on this mix on 50%!), I like what it does to the source. The reason why I rolled of low end in the first place is because when roundtone input is hot, there's a lot of saturation going on on the kick drums, and I don't want that kind of sound on my hiphop mixes, but I like that saturation on mids and high, actually I love it.
After this, the sound became so much thicker that I can't explain. I can put a small files if someone wants to hear it. It is not a finished mix though, but you can hear.
It is not a classic tape machine function but maybe a HPF detector will be very helpful in some of next updates.
I hope I am not boring
Old 14th March 2012
  #1000
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quintosardo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JanZoo View Post
I totally understood how the strip works, it is flawless piece of tool, and I'm still learning on how to use roundtone. I do mostly hiphop/urban music, but also a lot of guitar pop/rock. I tried it on hiphop mix, but like this, I rolled off some low end on the master bus, then added roundtone, 15 IPS hard algorithm ( I like it a lot) I tried to saturate it as much as it is possible with turning the input up but without OL flashing, and then I added a eq to compensate the low end and this time the high end because I used "action" knob a lot (on this mix on 50%!), I like what it does to the source. The reason why I rolled of low end in the first place is because when roundtone input is hot, there's a lot of saturation going on on the kick drums, and I don't want that kind of sound on my hiphop mixes, but I like that saturation on mids and high, actually I love it.
After this, the sound became so much thicker that I can't explain. I can put a small files if someone wants to hear it. It is not a finished mix though, but you can hear.
It is not a classic tape machine function but maybe a HPF detector will be very helpful in some of next updates.
I hope I am not boring
Nice! Please let us listen to something!

Did you try pre and post emphasis?
Reduce highs in input and restore them in output. You could get great results...
Old 14th March 2012
  #1001
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JanZoo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by quintosardo View Post
Nice! Please let us listen to something!

Did you try pre and post emphasis?
Reduce highs in input and restore them in output. You could get great results...
Emphasis was cranked on 80%
Old 14th March 2012
  #1002
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JanZoo's Avatar
Wait, "pre" and "post"? I see just one Emphasis knob :S
Old 14th March 2012
  #1003
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quintosardo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JanZoo View Post
Wait, "pre" and "post"? I see just one Emphasis knob :S
Oh, no, I meant extreme uses with two external EQs
Old 14th March 2012
  #1004
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JanZoo's Avatar
OK here are the files:

1. "WITH ROUNDTONE" has 8 db shelf roll off on 100HZ going to ROUNDTONE (Speed default, Action 50%, Emphasis 80%, signal is very hot, but not overloading) than going to new same as before eq with shelf +8 at 100 HZ to compensate back the bass, and shelf highs +4db @ 10k to compensate lost highs due of high action value. That's what's on the master bus.
So in my case, highs enhancer and HPF detector, or some kind of rolling off the bass possibility before saturation, inside the ROUNDTONE would be of great use to me.

2. "WITHOUT ROUNDTONE" everything is the same just ROUNDONE is bypassed, and the HIGH SHELF on the second eq is brought back to zero. So I left the eqs with bass roll off and the second one that rolls bass back, to see if the sound changing are maybe because of EQs, but it is not. And SUPER Q on EXport was engaged.

Is it possible that the changes with Roundtone are this much? I really liked the Roundtoned file better.
Attached Files

WITH ROUNDTONE.mp3 (706.5 KB, 194 views)

WITHOUT ROUNDTONE.mp3 (706.5 KB, 192 views)

Old 14th March 2012
  #1005
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Jolly Jimmy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by quintosardo View Post
Oh, no, I meant extreme uses with two external EQs
I've been wondering about this kind of thing... What kind of pre-emph curves would you use?
Old 14th March 2012
  #1006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quintosardo View Post
One thing which looks strange to me is my feeling that you don't stress the benefits coming from the absolute absence of the concept of aliasing. Isn't it one of the main sources of strength of the whole concept and reasons for the good sound, apart from the good algorithms?
I think when we state that there's no digitization, that's understood. We also mention that's there's no latency.
Old 14th March 2012
  #1007
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Nice Example!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JanZoo View Post
OK here are the files:

1. "WITH ROUNDTONE" has 8 db shelf roll off on 100HZ going to ROUNDTONE (Speed default, Action 50%, Emphasis 80%, signal is very hot, but not overloading) than going to new same as before eq with shelf +8 at 100 HZ to compensate back the bass, and shelf highs +4db @ 10k to compensate lost highs due of high action value. That's what's on the master bus.
So in my case, highs enhancer and HPF detector, or some kind of rolling off the bass possibility before saturation, inside the ROUNDTONE would be of great use to me.

2. "WITHOUT ROUNDTONE" everything is the same just ROUNDONE is bypassed, and the HIGH SHELF on the second eq is brought back to zero. So I left the eqs with bass roll off and the second one that rolls bass back, to see if the sound changing are maybe because of EQs, but it is not. And SUPER Q on EXport was engaged.

Is it possible that the changes with Roundtone are this much? I really liked the Roundtoned file better.
It's sounds great very natural I must say I did not have an interest in Roundtone I was happy with the Strips and Cutterone but now I want it thanks! Good song too !
Old 14th March 2012
  #1008
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JanZoo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atak View Post
It's sounds great very natural I must say I did not have an interest in Roundtone I was happy with the Strips and Cutterone but now I want it thanks! Good song too !
Thanks! I am wondering what Quinto got to say, and can't wait that new version with possibility of enhance highs. As Illacov I think said, roundtone is very on a dark side, but that's not bad at all, we just need an eq or exciter after it to bring the highs back, also HPF detector or something similar will be great for electonic kind of music where kick drums carry a big energy
Old 14th March 2012
  #1009
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quintosardo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JanZoo View Post
OK here are the files:

1. "WITH ROUNDTONE" has 8 db shelf roll off on 100HZ going to ROUNDTONE (Speed default, Action 50%, Emphasis 80%, signal is very hot, but not overloading) than going to new same as before eq with shelf +8 at 100 HZ to compensate back the bass, and shelf highs +4db @ 10k to compensate lost highs due of high action value. That's what's on the master bus.
So in my case, highs enhancer and HPF detector, or some kind of rolling off the bass possibility before saturation, inside the ROUNDTONE would be of great use to me.

2. "WITHOUT ROUNDTONE" everything is the same just ROUNDONE is bypassed, and the HIGH SHELF on the second eq is brought back to zero. So I left the eqs with bass roll off and the second one that rolls bass back, to see if the sound changing are maybe because of EQs, but it is not. And SUPER Q on EXport was engaged.

Is it possible that the changes with Roundtone are this much? I really liked the Roundtoned file better.
Wow, you got it!

Lows and highs are inflated but without muddyness, and the pass through the "tape" moves the highs in a nice way even if they are restored by the following external hi eq.
I feel everything more solid.

What language is this?
Old 14th March 2012
  #1010
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dasoundjunkie's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by quintosardo View Post
Wow, you got it!

Lows and highs are inflated but without muddyness, and the pass through the "tape" moves the highs in a nice way even if they are restored by the following external hi eq.
I feel everything more solid.

What language is this?
Sounds like Portuguese
Old 14th March 2012
  #1011
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JanZoo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by quintosardo View Post
Wow, you got it!

Lows and highs are inflated but without muddyness, and the pass through the "tape" moves the highs in a nice way even if they are restored by the following external hi eq.
I feel everything more solid.

What language is this?
Thanks Quinto! The feeling is really good when the developer itself is satisfied the way you use his tools

That's Serbian language! I'm from Serbia!
Old 14th March 2012
  #1012
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quintosardo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JanZoo View Post
Thanks Quinto! The feeling is really good when the developer itself is satisfied the way you use his tools

That's Serbian language! I'm from Serbia!
Oh, how much I love this net thing


If you want to experiment a bit more, you could put another instance of Roundtone on the stereo bus, with a neutral setting like this:

- 30ips soft
- low gain (6dB before the led switches on) and according volume to get back to 0dB through
- low speed: 20%
- low action: 20%
- low emphasis: 0%
- full wet (I never use this wet/dry knob)

Slowly move gain looking for more rounded highs (adjust volume when you've found it).

The goal is to avoid adding still new saturation and harmonics (you'd introduce new intermodulation) but just get the "rounding" effect on highs coming from Roundtone's name, to make the sound of the last hi eq stage better and smoother.


You may also want to fine check your stereo width after Roundtone and restore a bit of width if necessary. The more you compress the signal, the more left and right channels get some kinds of relationships and, you know, they more they are related the less the stereo field is wide.

As ever, check the levels for a fair comparison!
Old 14th March 2012
  #1013
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JanZoo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by quintosardo View Post
Oh, how much I love this net thing


If you want to experiment a bit more, you could put another instance of Roundtone on the stereo bus, with a neutral setting like this:

- 30ips soft
- low gain (6dB before the led switches on) and according volume to get back to 0dB through
- low speed: 20%
- low action: 20%
- low emphasis: 0%
- full wet (I never use this wet/dry knob)

Slowly increase gain looking for more rounded highs (adjust volume when you've found it).

The goal is to avoid adding still new saturation and harmonics (you'd introduce new intermodulation) but just get the "rounding" effect on highs coming from Roundtone's name, to make the sound of the last hi eq stage better and smoother.
I'll definitely try that, tomorrow on a new mix, that I will do with stripbus and roundtone, I didn't find the dry/wet knob useful either
Old 14th March 2012
  #1014
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Jens L.'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasoundjunkie View Post
Sounds like Portuguese
If it was Portuguese, then chances are both you and Quinto would understand some of if since Castellano, Italian and Portuguese all derived from common Latin (Castellano is still much closer to it than the other two though).

Serbian however is a Slavian language and thus in no way related to Latin at all.
Old 14th March 2012
  #1015
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quintosardo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens L. View Post
If it was Portuguese, then chances are both you and Quinto would understand some of if since Castellano, Italian and Portuguese all derived from common Latin (Castellano is still much closer to it than the other two though).

Serbian however is a Slavian language and thus in no way related to Latin at all.
That's true, I really cannot hear any familiar sound
Old 15th March 2012
  #1016
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JanZoo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by quintosardo View Post
That's true, I really cannot hear any familiar sound
Haha, of course you can't!
As far as I know,Portuguese, Spanish, Italian and French are from Roman (Latin) group of languages. On the other hand Serbian, Russian, Croatian, Bulgarian, Macedonian, Ukrainian etc are Slavic group of languages, and Slavic and Roman group of language have nothing in common.
Old 15th March 2012
  #1017
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Actually, the tone is very very similar. First time i heard the sample i thought it was italian! And i'm portuguese!
Old 15th March 2012
  #1018
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JanZoo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by scalawag View Post
Actually, the tone is very very similar. First time i heard the sample i thought it was italian! And i'm portuguese!
If you have an Italian friend play him the song He won't understand a single word
Old 15th March 2012
  #1019
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dasoundjunkie's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens L. View Post
If it was Portuguese, then chances are both you and Quinto would understand some of if since Castellano, Italian and Portuguese all derived from common Latin (Castellano is still much closer to it than the other two though).

Serbian however is a Slavian language and thus in no way related to Latin at all.

That's what I get for not paying enough attention
Old 15th March 2012
  #1020
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miro's Avatar
 

so, when's the new version out?
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