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Kemper Profiling Amplifier
Old 14th February 2012
  #241
ajs
Gear Maniac
 

It captures all of the princeton as it's set. In other words, if I set the Princeton to vol 4, treble 4, and bass 4 and make a profile then that's the profile I'm able to play. If I then want to alter anything…say, increase the bass…then it's the Kemper bass which takes over and imposes its own bass control on top of the profile. It's still the base Fender profile but now I've added some bass via the Kemper. It's bound to begin to sound different at that point and not behave exactly like the Fender. Another example…the Kemper has a presence knob, I've never seen one of those on a Princeton but I have one now! :-)

If you want to have every different sound which an amp can deliver and do it as precisely as possible then you'd need to make different profiles of each amp state. For live it would mean simply using a midi foot controller to move between them.

Sure it'll capture a solid state amp. And a bass amp, a funky home made keyboard amp, an old radio…if something has an input and a loudspeaker and you have a mic you can profile it.
Old 14th February 2012
  #242
ajs
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Yes...it'll nail a Henriksen and Polytone without sweating

And just to wake up your jazz audience I suggest dropping in a Marshall set to 11 now and then.
Old 15th February 2012
  #243
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Quick noob question but does the kemper have built in fx...I really love the clean choruses etc on the axe fx and just wondering if this will come with such fx....I know obviously this nails any tube amp profile but I want to use this live and would love to switch between a high gain Mesa to a warm chorusy fx driven clean tone
Old 15th February 2012
  #244
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feck's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyru View Post
Quick noob question but does the kemper have built in fx...I really love the clean choruses etc on the axe fx and just wondering if this will come with such fx....I know obviously this nails any tube amp profile but I want to use this live and would love to switch between a high gain Mesa to a warm chorusy fx driven clean tone
Sure does. Check out their site for all the info.
Old 15th February 2012
  #245
Here for the gear
 

The thing is, im arguing against myself to some degree. I never change settings on my jazz amp. Why would I? Thick soupy cleans mmmmm. i only have to adjust for room settings etc. Saying that, sometimes I just cant get 1 particular amp to sound good in some rooms. With the kemp you could not only store all your fav jazz amps at the 'rightish' setting, you can change amps completely if the room doesnt suite the 'polytone' etc.

Thats actually the best jazz amp n the world then!!

Yet,,,,If I wanna dive into fusion I could run into a lot of work. Hours of profiling and hunting amps.
On the other hand, ive got a really good RAT moded blues JNr that I can use pedals for to get into gain.

So in all my summary, yes for £1,300 ish you could get the best jazz amp. for £1,300 you can get particular sounds from your fav amps but, the easiest option would be to carry my little Blues Jnr under my arm and a small box with pedals and a good quality EQ.

Sounds like great fun this kemper, but ive only just gotten into tubes and overdrive. I think I best ply my trade with one tool that stock, sounds really good and can be tweaked here and there with the right pedal.

I have always found too much choice is a bad thing. I bet most of yall only end up using two of the amps you profile. Sorry didnt mean that in a nasty way, it was a mildly humorous statement. :-)

Cool!!
Old 15th February 2012
  #246
For what you want, then I don't see the KPA being the right choice, unless you need it for recording. Your current setup will give you much more pleasure and joy than any multifx unit. My advice is that if you want to get into the higher gain fusion territory then as youv'e already got the rat, maybe get a mellower tube drive pedal as an additional option and a chorus/phaser/flanger of some sort and you'll already be covering 99% of the tones used.

When weighing up the pro's cons of a modeler versus the real thing you need to look at your own situation and decide on the four golden rules of gear replacement buying. 1) Is it more convenient? 2) Is it cheaper? 3) Is it more fun? 4) Does it sound better? You need to be able to answer yes to at least two of those and ideally three or all four before you should buy anything. If you can't come up with that many then walk away.
Old 15th February 2012
  #247
ajs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Posativek View Post

I bet most of yall only end up using two of the amps you profile.
Probably not true here where people are either recording players who use a variety of sounds depending on the track or else studio owners/managers who want to be able to offer players a variety of sounds.

I expect if you're playing jazz in a more or less traditional style it means you're older than time itself so the light weight of the Kemper should appeal!

Old 15th February 2012
  #248
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Animus's Avatar
 

How much impact does the guitar itself have on the profiling process? Like if someone used a profile with a guitar other than the one that was used in the profiling would that affect the accuracy of the model?
Old 15th February 2012
  #249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Animus View Post
How much impact does the guitar itself have on the profiling process? Like if someone used a profile with a guitar other than the one that was used in the profiling would that affect the accuracy of the model?
It onyl has an effect during the refining part. Think of it a bit like doing Match EQ, same sort of impact/constraints apply. Some profiles have been made and refined with certain guitars and they seem to suit similar configurations to play best so they've been labled as such.
Old 15th February 2012
  #250
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdme_sadie View Post
It onyl has an effect during the refining part. Think of it a bit like doing Match EQ, same sort of impact/constraints apply. Some profiles have been made and refined with certain guitars and they seem to suit similar configurations to play best so they've been labled as such.
I'm not sure if you have your Kemper yet, but, the guitar being used has no affect on the profile.
Watch the Matchless Nashville Profiling demo, he Profiles using a Tele, he then picks up a PRS Goldtop and the profile sounds amazing.

You tweak the Profile afterwards for whatever guitar you're using...it then becomes a Rig.
You don't even need to "refine", refining gets the profile sounding identical (which is irrelevant), without refining it sounds almost identical, and you quickly realize how you can take a profile and completely transform it into a completely different sounding amp.
Old 15th February 2012
  #251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tok22 View Post
I'm not sure if you have your Kemper yet, but, the guitar being used has no affect on the profile.
Watch the Matchless Nashville Profiling demo, he Profiles using a Tele, he then picks up a PRS Goldtop and the profile sounds amazing.

You tweak the Profile afterwards for whatever guitar you're using...it then becomes a Rig.
You don't even need to "refine", refining gets the profile sounding identical (which is irrelevant), without refining it sounds almost identical, and you quickly realize how you can take a profile and completely transform it into a completely different sounding amp.
I have a Kemper, and the guitar makes a difference during refining as I said. If you go through the patches you'll see a couple that have been set up with a speciifc guitar in mind. It's no different than Match EQ.

I'm afraid I'll have to take your word for it about reaching a perfect match, I have been unable to get things any closer than in the rough ballpark and certainly not within a distance that could be resolved completely with any amount of tweaking or further refining. The result has been good though in sounding like it's own amp with a match eq on it, but it hasn't sounded totally like or even been remotely close when it comes to reacting like my amp.
Old 15th February 2012
  #252
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajs View Post
Probably not true here where people are either recording players who use a variety of sounds depending on the track or else studio owners/managers who want to be able to offer players a variety of sounds.

I expect if you're playing jazz in a more or less traditional style it means you're older than time itself so the light weight of the Kemper should appeal!

Bit bitchy!!

Im 30 years old and I like to play in the styles of George benson/Bill Frisell.
Basically I like to mix it up, hence the points Ive raised in my posts.

I like to play more traditional jazz in the style of George benson because he is by far the greatest living guitarist, and has been for the last 40 years.


George Benson - The Shadow Of Your Smile [Live '72] - YouTube

Live too!!!

If you didnt know, you do now!! :-)
Old 16th February 2012
  #253
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdme_sadie View Post
For what you want, then I don't see the KPA being the right choice, unless you need it for recording. Your current setup will give you much more pleasure and joy than any multifx unit. My advice is that if you want to get into the higher gain fusion territory then as youv'e already got the rat, maybe get a mellower tube drive pedal as an additional option and a chorus/phaser/flanger of some sort and you'll already be covering 99% of the tones used.

When weighing up the pro's cons of a modeler versus the real thing you need to look at your own situation and decide on the four golden rules of gear replacement buying. 1) Is it more convenient? 2) Is it cheaper? 3) Is it more fun? 4) Does it sound better? You need to be able to answer yes to at least two of those and ideally three or all four before you should buy anything. If you can't come up with that many then walk away.
That is excellent advice, thank you. :-)
Old 16th February 2012
  #254
DSK
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DSK's Avatar
This thing looks great. But I do wonder if you could justify it on it's own.

In my view one should have 4+ grewt amps to really get mileage from it.


PS Nice track Posativek! Benson is truly a wonder with a guitar!
Old 16th February 2012
  #255
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Just spent the day with one, Profiled a Hughes & Kettner Tri Amp MKII (All 7 Channels)

2 Words, ****ing Amazing

Got 99% there, and I can not express enough the magic happens in the "refine profile" phase.

Play everything you can think of in "refine profile" for around 45 seconds, chords all over the fret board, solos, scales, fret harmonics, then hit finish, without this process you won't get 99% there.

The last 1% is not a better or worse, just barely different. Almost like moving the mic a hair even if that. Everyone in the room failed the blind test. Not one single person passed it when switching back and forth from the kemper to the real amp. Pretty cool
Old 16th February 2012
  #256
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Awesome man, that's good news,

Can't wait to hear some examples.

Really hoping someone can get the kind of breakup i'm hearing here.
Metroamp JTM 45 - YouTube

Nothing has come close, all really funny breakup kinda distortion

Hopefully someone can nail it.
Old 16th February 2012
  #257
ajs
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Posativek View Post
Bit bitchy!!
Ah, just kidding!

I spent most of my mid teen years drooping the needle on far too many Joe Pass records figuring them out chord by chord.
Old 16th February 2012
  #258
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feck's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by laddie.music2 View Post
Awesome man, that's good news,

Can't wait to hear some examples.

Really hoping someone can get the kind of breakup i'm hearing here.
Metroamp JTM 45 - YouTube

Nothing has come close, all really funny breakup kinda distortion

Hopefully someone can nail it.
From my short time with the KPA , I honestly don't think that would be a far stretch to recreate. I am not a huge fan of the sound of that amp, in my opinion my 3 Monkeys Orangutan does a similar thing but better, and profiling it is one of the main reasons I got the KPA so I will report back as to how well that actually happens.
Old 16th February 2012
  #259
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sweet man,
Yeah just hoping to hear something that actually sounds real... I don't mean like sounds nice or whatever, but has that 'soul'
that vibe that oh yeah that's an amp getting pound'd

the modelers give me that feeling like it's been played in outer space,

so the vibe of that metro clip, and any given amp of your choice, that would be the ultimate.
Old 16th February 2012
  #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laddie.music2 View Post
Awesome man, that's good news,

Can't wait to hear some examples.

Really hoping someone can get the kind of breakup i'm hearing here.
Metroamp JTM 45 - YouTube

Nothing has come close, all really funny breakup kinda distortion

Hopefully someone can nail it.
I would guess by what i was hearing yesterday the kemper could pull it off. As it matched so well after refining to what our source was and we did all 7 channels.

But it's hard to tell whats really going on in the video. As it's a 240p sound source and i also cant tell what microphone he is using, as the mic and placement is a big factor.

The only test i never got to do with the kemper yesterday was i wanted to pull the microphone 10 feet away and get a "room" profiled guitar sound, as part of the vibe of the video could also be hearing it from the camera mic 7 feet away.
Old 16th February 2012
  #261
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It's just one mic, sm57 within 8 inches of the cab...

Anything that sounds 'real' i'll be really impressed with,

Just trying to hear something that sounds lively, or 'real' as opposed to a direct guitar signal...
Old 16th February 2012
  #262
ajs
Gear Maniac
 

Some of the owners have put up a variety of clips, you may find something which floats yer boat:

Kemper Clips
Old 16th February 2012
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laddie.music2 View Post
It's just one mic, sm57 within 8 inches of the cab...

Anything that sounds 'real' i'll be really impressed with,

Just trying to hear something that sounds lively, or 'real' as opposed to a direct guitar signal...
I agree most profiles have been very close miced tones, and mine were as well. The guys who had the unit are a popular giging cover band here in chicago and now are currently calling studios in the area to try and get the same amps profiled with much nicer rooms,mics, and they asked me if i wanted to join them for the session. So i think next time i might bring a video camera and try to get lots of sounds to see how powerful it can be. Although I think they are only looking to do a few hours i could probably manage to get a few foot away from the cab profiles for testing and post the results.

As i am very curious if the preamps make a difference. Also worth mentioning was that our original profiling session was being monitored at 96k.
Old 16th February 2012
  #264
Quote:
Originally Posted by feck View Post
From my short time with the KPA , I honestly don't think that would be a far stretch to recreate. I am not a huge fan of the sound of that amp, in my opinion my 3 Monkeys Orangutan does a similar thing but better, and profiling it is one of the main reasons I got the KPA so I will report back as to how well that actually happens.
Looking forward to your thoughts on the sound of the unit Feck.
Old 17th February 2012
  #265
Here for the gear
 

What kind of cables did you use?
Old 17th February 2012
  #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tekn0 View Post
I agree most profiles have been very close miced tones, and mine were as well. The guys who had the unit are a popular giging cover band here in chicago and now are currently calling studios in the area to try and get the same amps profiled with much nicer rooms,mics, and they asked me if i wanted to join them for the session. So i think next time i might bring a video camera and try to get lots of sounds to see how powerful it can be. Although I think they are only looking to do a few hours i could probably manage to get a few foot away from the cab profiles for testing and post the results.

As i am very curious if the preamps make a difference. Also worth mentioning was that our original profiling session was being monitored at 96k.
I'd imagine the best tones will always come from close micing in terms of making profiles because that is going to capture the closest sound of the amp.

You can't capture 'air' so if you capture from 6 feet, your just going to be capturing a 'dull direct sound'

Don't be fooled into believing your going to be capturing the AIRR...

Unless of course this is what it will do... which I don't think so.
Old 17th February 2012
  #267
Making a profile at a distance actually does make quite a difference to the sound, and yes it makes it sound mcuh more similar to "amp in the room" or "air" as it gives you the darker tonality that you would hear in the room rather than the tonality 1 inch from the speaker which tends to be much brighter and more brittle. Combine with some reverb and you'll have something that sound far less like a synth and far more like an amp.
Old 17th February 2012
  #268
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by laddie.music2 View Post
I'd imagine the best tones will always come from close micing in terms of making profiles because that is going to capture the closest sound of the amp.

You can't capture 'air' so if you capture from 6 feet, your just going to be capturing a 'dull direct sound'

Don't be fooled into believing your going to be capturing the AIRR...

Unless of course this is what it will do... which I don't think so.
There are a few hot shot German guitarists who've spent the last week making Profiles with some pro engineers in a German studio.
They tell me they've taken the Profiling process to a new 3D level, and they'll share the Profiles pretty soon.

I already feel the Air and wood of the cabinet right now, IMO, the cab is 80% of the tone.
Profiling DI might just be the best method, IMO, and then add a cab afterwards...some of the best EVH profiles were done that way.
Old 18th February 2012
  #269
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feck's Avatar
So I just created my first profile with my KPA, with a single R121 - it was a clean setting on voice 3 of my 3 Monkeys Orangutan, which has a bit of breakup when strummed hard. I will say this - there is NO way I would know the KPA is digital by listening back to it. Dynamically speaking, it is as analog as anything I have ever heard. The way the notes fade out are also perfect - no artifacts whatsoever can I hear on this profile I made. Regarding how close it is to my amp, here are my thoughts.
1. The KPA is slightly more dynamic than the amp - when played soft to loud, the soft is softer than the amp by just a bit.
2. Tonally, on the soft playing, the KPA, at least for this profile, is a bit brighter/more alive sounding - I actually prefer it. To use a pedestrian term, it sounds more "hi-fi".
3. When I play medium to hard, the breakup tone is almost indistinguishable from the amp. When doing a quick a/b between the amp track and KPA track with my eyes closed, quite often I could not even tell I was switching. There was slightly less bass in the KPA by default, but I added some in after the profile was complete.

This is only one profile of one amp at one setting. Of course there are WAY more that I will do, and I expect some varying results. But I can say this right away - this thing gets closer to the amp than I expected it would. Pretty badass. I will start a soundcloud page and upload some samples soon, and will be doing a video demonstrating some of this too. Just figured I would post some early thoughts in the meantime.
Old 18th February 2012
  #270
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Realtugs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by feck View Post
But I can say this right away - this thing gets closer to the amp than I expected it would. Pretty badass.
Bollocks...I was afraid of that! Well...at least my wallet will be a little lighter, right?

Cheers Feck...appreciate you taking the time, and will watch out for your soundcloud. Congrats on the new addition, brother...enjoy!

Edit: Oh yeah...how's the build, mate? Sometimes when I look at it, the word "plasticy" pops into my head. Tell me my eyes deceive me!?
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