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Kemper Profiling Amplifier
Old 20th February 2012
  #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feck View Post
Here is the A/B clip - both the amp and the KPA profile switched every phrase, roughly every 3 seconds. See if you can tell which is which, and if so, which you prefer!

Kemper Orangutan A/B test full gain by Stranded On A Planet on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

I don't like these kinds of tests becuase of the following:

A while back someone posted a tape vs digital debate, anyways he switched in and out of tape / digital, like you have here, pretty much everyone failed...

So we requested both files without switching, pretty much everybody passed.
( of course, tape sounds that much better, and that much different )

Secondly, this is a very high gain clip... modelling's strongest asset,
I can hear the difference between the two, the top end e.g. 15 seconds on that sound cloud test you can hear the speaker pump,

If I have time i'll try dissmember it hahaha, again I don't agree with nor like this form of testing, it's usually put forward from defensive owners of particular technolgoy or gear, hahaha,
kinda like trying to sneak drugs through security with a supermodel.

Just put them both up, don't hide behind a proven legality in the audio world.

another example is this....
get an old sound blaster, split record between a lavry gold and the sound blaster...
now every 3 seconds blend back and forth.... you will fail, this has been done and pretty much everybody fails.

in a 30 second clip, the lavry gold is very very very easy to discern.

Clean and slight breakup is where real amps really shine, e.g. classic rock,

Would love to hear more comparisons though, very cool

btw... both clips sound great, i only had a quick listen, 15 seconds stood out as real, but who knows, hard to tell when it's skitzo switching back and forth
Old 20th February 2012
  #332
Lives for gear
The inherent nature of digital as a sampling issue in regard to analog/tube sine wave can be imagined as digital seen as tiny little steps proceeding around the round curve, even if there are millions and millions of quantized steps the resulting tiny missing notch of the round to the right angle step, is why digital can only get close. Perhaps in some issues very close but it can never be exactly the same.

Processing the very minute digital step sampled mimic through a tube circuit would perhaps yield the best of the technology but the mimic of all tube through all digital cannot be exact, analog helps but tubes still have a response and effect that chips cannot do. If one could mimic the preamp section of the target amp finely enough and then run that through a tube power amp circuit it would be pretty good but you cannot get the front end mimic to respond to drive, touch and feel like the real tube circuit would.

It is just the inherent limitations but the answer is not like cloning the genes of sheep, which one might want to consider in the cloning of living things, I do not think results in copy of memory and learned issues. Personality and behavior traits may be genetically encoded but not what a person has learned and experienced.

You can sample and extrapolate the curve of any amp but it seems limited in the issue one is only copying an optimum tone and not the range of the actual amps clean to dirty, etc nor the response factors inherent in the drive and response of the amp especially tubes.

The new modeling amp is none the less pretty cool and should yield something interesting but it has limitations because it is not magic and Star Trek.

There is a reason why we do not trust the human ear as a benchmark reference there is always the personal appealing tonal response. Much less we use frequency analyzers to adjust a 20 band EQ properly. Using a studio or recording room that has not been properly pink noised and balanced set only by ear would never sound that great nor be anywhere near close to what an analyzer sees and hears. I am sure this new modeler device must be pretty decent and upper level of the technology but exact copy is a myth.
Old 20th February 2012
  #333
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Energie's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by beau_mckee View Post
I went to the sharing forum for profiles, but i only see a handful from a guy named Tony McKenzie. Am i looking the wrong area?
There is a separate place called rig exchange and right now is like 30 pages long of shares profiles. Some of them just ok some of them killer. As far as which unit sounds better it's really all in what u want to go for. I mean the Kemper is pretty much dead on representation of the real amp. How much better can it be i
If its the real thing? The downside if Kemper is that as with any mixing of a real amp it takes technique and that doesn't change with the Kemper. But there are some stellar profiles being shared. I mean they sound great The only thing I miss is the ability to make 2 different amps into a stereo patch. Not possible with Kemper right now.

To me the axe fx is more like idealized representation of the amps it's trying to mimick. Like polished and finished sounding perfected mimicked of this and that amp. Some of them sound great. But that doesn't always mean it will fit into a mix better you know. And there is where I like the Kemper better because it's not an idealized patch of a recorded tone it IS the recorded tone just sounds more raw and authentic to me. Doesn't always mean better but I for one am happy with my choice of Kemper.axe fx has insane amount of fx and things it can do. For me they are complete overkill. I usually find a few food patches and stick with them. Even with the standard I had I would switch off all efx and just try to get the best raw sound. If u go visit the fractal forum you will probably see soanu posts about how TI improve the raw tone. Add cab block here. Adjust this to this setting and this and this and this. So forth. To me there were many things needed to make it sound more authentic. Great that u can tweak And then when cliff updates the unit. All your sounds would sound different. So I decided to try Kemper this go around. Saved a good deal of money and focussing on just the best raw sound I can get. I am not missing all the cool efx fractal has or all the features. But that is me. Not sure what would he best for you. In the end they both Rock. Clif is working overtime to imement things to match the Kemper. The die hard axe fx guys are creaming in their pants and hurling insults at Kemper as we speak. Haha
Old 20th February 2012
  #334
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Energie's Avatar
 

I am on my tiny phone so sorry for bad typos and auto correct mayhem. Will try to correct any mistakes once I get back on my keyboard but hope u could understand
Old 20th February 2012
  #335
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Animus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by feck View Post
Here is the A/B clip - both the amp and the KPA profile switched every phrase, roughly every 3 seconds. See if you can tell which is which, and if so, which you prefer!

Kemper Orangutan A/B test full gain by Stranded On A Planet on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free
I am guessing the second phrases is †he Kemper.
Old 20th February 2012
  #336
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beau_mckee's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Energie View Post
There is a separate place called rig exchange and right now is like 30 pages long of shares profiles. Some of them just ok some of them killer. As far as which unit sounds better it's really all in what u want to go for. I mean the Kemper is pretty much dead on representation of the real amp. How much better can it be i
If its the real thing? The downside if Kemper is that as with any mixing of a real amp it takes technique and that doesn't change with the Kemper. But there are some stellar profiles being shared. I mean they sound great The only thing I miss is the ability to make 2 different amps into a stereo patch. Not possible with Kemper right now.

To me the axe fx is more like idealized representation of the amps it's trying to mimick. Like polished and finished sounding perfected mimicked of this and that amp. Some of them sound great. But that doesn't always mean it will fit into a mix better you know. And there is where I like the Kemper better because it's not an idealized patch of a recorded tone it IS the recorded tone just sounds more raw and authentic to me. Doesn't always mean better but I for one am happy with my choice of Kemper.axe fx has insane amount of fx and things it can do. For me they are complete overkill. I usually find a few food patches and stick with them. Even with the standard I had I would switch off all efx and just try to get the best raw sound. If u go visit the fractal forum you will probably see soanu posts about how TI improve the raw tone. Add cab block here. Adjust this to this setting and this and this and this. So forth. To me there were many things needed to make it sound more authentic. Great that u can tweak And then when cliff updates the unit. All your sounds would sound different. So I decided to try Kemper this go around. Saved a good deal of money and focussing on just the best raw sound I can get. I am not missing all the cool efx fractal has or all the features. But that is me. Not sure what would he best for you. In the end they both Rock. Clif is working overtime to imement things to match the Kemper. The die hard axe fx guys are creaming in their pants and hurling insults at Kemper as we speak. Haha
This was really insightful, thanks energie! Pretty sure I decided to go with kemper. Getting a hands on this Friday
Old 20th February 2012
  #337
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chrisjones's Avatar
 

Just heard one... a friend of mine has one in his studio. I just know I want one.
Old 20th February 2012
  #338
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Energie's Avatar
 

Beau I am sure you have been comparing clips and if you havnt then def do to see which unit floats your boat. If you want to hear specific clips on the Kemper let me know an I could try to make a clip or something
Old 20th February 2012
  #339
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How about something that doesn't hide behind massive ammounts of distortion.

Metroamp JTM 45 - YouTube

But if you want to do soemthign with some balls, something like this would be cool,
I wanna hear the speakers moooooving like this

Metroamp 50W 71 specs - YouTube

In that test file above, the main difference is not tone, but the pump of a spekaer.
Old 21st February 2012
  #340
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feck's Avatar
I will be doing some clean and mid-gain clips as well. For this clip, the KPA is first, the amp second.
Old 21st February 2012
  #341
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Animus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by feck View Post
I will be doing some clean and mid-gain clips as well. For this clip, the KPA is first, the amp second.
doh!


heh
Old 21st February 2012
  #342
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feck's Avatar
Here are 2 clips, clean/semi-distorted. Titled Blind Test Clip 1 and 2. One is the amp, one the KPA.

Stranded On A Planet's sounds on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free
Old 21st February 2012
  #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feck View Post
Here are 2 clips, clean/semi-distorted. Titled Blind Test Clip 1 and 2. One is the amp, one the KPA.

Stranded On A Planet's sounds on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

nicer then I expected,

I prefer clip 2 (the top one), if that's the kemper i'm getting it, haha, if not, clip 1 is pretty nice too, just a bit direct and a bit brash on the distorted chords.

interested to know which is which

definately gets the eq shape pretty spot on.
Old 21st February 2012
  #344
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Animus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by feck View Post
Here are 2 clips, clean/semi-distorted. Titled Blind Test Clip 1 and 2. One is the amp, one the KPA.

Stranded On A Planet's sounds on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free
I like Clip 1 I think best but I am thinking it's the Kemper. Fool me once shame on me....well you know what i mean.
Old 21st February 2012
  #345
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feck's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Animus View Post
I like Clip 1 I think best but I am thinking it's the Kemper. Fool me once shame on me....well you know what i mean.
I think so...
Attached Thumbnails
Kemper Profiling Amplifier-bush-funny-face.jpg  
Old 21st February 2012
  #346
Blind test clip 1 - Sounds like the KPA to me, excess of treble brittleness and compression (tones I associate with the KPA amp sim), also several dB louder.
Blind test clip 2 - Sounds like the amp to me, more rounded/warm tone. Less exciting but more natural.

I think Clip1 would be more ready for the record and Clip 2 would require a little more work.

I eagerly await the results though.
Old 21st February 2012
  #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdme_sadie View Post
Blind test clip 1 - Sounds like the KPA to me, excess of treble brittleness and compression (tones I associate with the KPA amp sim), also several dB louder.
Blind test clip 2 - Sounds like the amp to me, more rounded/warm tone. Less exciting but more natural.

I think Clip1 would be more ready for the record and Clip 2 would require a little more work.

I eagerly await the results though.
I agree,

My biggest gripe with clip 1 was the distortion on hard strums, it's the disease that all digital amps to date suffer from.

Don't sell the orangutang, hehehe, although my gosh going to gigs that require PA / light setups, this kemper is the stuff.

If they could get some pump in the bottom end somehow, not sure how they could, then it would sound more like it was coming from a speaker as opposed to a reshaped DI
Old 21st February 2012
  #348
OK try guessing this one that I just knocked out on my Mesa, lower gain crunch tone : http://www.peranders.com/general/kpa_mesa_crunch_ab.mp3

Section (A) starts at 1 second and (B) starts at around 49 seconds in, is (A) or (B) the Amp or the Kemper?

I'm just messing around so it wont be note for note, but close enough for you to be able to compare the tones. First is the neck pickup then I switch to the bridge for the last little bit.

AIFF version : http://www.peranders.com/general/kpa_mesa_crunch_ab.aif
Old 21st February 2012
  #349
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Ok guys here is me running through several presets doing the same little riff, and a little on the top so you can hear some of the presets, and some user profiles. This is all on my strat and focussing on light to mid gain stuff, and not trying to impress with my playing, just give you an idea of how some of the different presets and profiles sound, with a strat. its kinda long, lots of profiles demoed here. about 8 minutes, and hopefully it will help those wondering out, or else you may never get this 8 minutes of your life back. haha

There is a limiter on the master just so I can get it somewhat loud with no overs, shouldn't be slamming it though, maybe a DB or two every now and then...



http://www.energiestudios.com/Files/...es%20-%203.mp3
Old 21st February 2012
  #350
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Nice clips,
It is definately sounding more and more to me that the kemper has the original 'shape' of it's original amp counterpart.

But the cabinet pump... is not there, specially the bottoms...

The AXE FX definately has the cabinet part cornered better IMO, although the EQ shape is better on the kemper... hehhe

I think kemper has to really get the cabinet pumping better, it's sounding quite DI'd the more I hear clips. It's starting to 'sound' like a kemper.
Old 21st February 2012
  #351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laddie.music2 View Post
Nice clips,
It is definately sounding more and more to me that the kemper has the original 'shape' of it's original amp counterpart.

But the cabinet pump... is not there, specially the bottoms...

The AXE FX definately has the cabinet part cornered better IMO, although the EQ shape is better on the kemper... hehhe

I think kemper has to really get the cabinet pumping better, it's sounding quite DI'd the more I hear clips. It's starting to 'sound' like a kemper.
I think also that the volume of where the amp is at when profiled probably will effect how the end result sounds. Profile an amp with not much air and you will probably miss stuff like that. When I profiled my amp it turned out pretty much identical
Old 22nd February 2012
  #352
Quote:
Originally Posted by Energie View Post
I think also that the volume of where the amp is at when profiled probably will effect how the end result sounds. Profile an amp with not much air and you will probably miss stuff like that. When I profiled my amp it turned out pretty much identical
I agree. Some profiles really pump and others are weak. Lots of variables as to why that is but it's pretty much capturing what comes in and if it's not there to begin with, it won't end up there after the profiling.
Old 22nd February 2012
  #353
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feck's Avatar
So, regarding the "Blind Test 1" and "Blind Test 2" clips, it seems the guesses pretty much evened out to 50/50. The KPA was clip 1, and the amp was clip 2.

Here is a new one - our Bogner Shiva 2x12 el34, and the KPA profile of it. So far with both examples, the results of the opinions have been a coin toss, so it appears as though the KPA is a pretty serious contender here. Anyhow, one of the Shiva-KPA clips is the amp, one the KPA. Let's get some opinions here...


Stranded On A Planet's sounds on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free
Old 22nd February 2012
  #354
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Animus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by feck View Post
So, regarding the "Blind Test 1" and "Blind Test 2" clips, it seems the guesses pretty much evened out to 50/50. The KPA was clip 1, and the amp was clip 2.

Here is a new one - our Bogner Shiva 2x12 el34, and the KPA profile of it. So far with both examples, the results of the opinions have been a coin toss, so it appears as though the KPA is a pretty serious contender here. Anyhow, one of the Shiva-KPA clips is the amp, one the KPA. Let's get some opinions here...


Stranded On A Planet's sounds on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free
sweet, did I get one right finally? heh


On the Shiva clips I like the #2. Seemed to be more pleasing mids in there. I never played a Shiva before but it seems like from the clips those tones would be right at home in a Radiohead song.
Old 23rd February 2012
  #355
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by feck View Post
So, regarding the "Blind Test 1" and "Blind Test 2" clips, it seems the guesses pretty much evened out to 50/50. The KPA was clip 1, and the amp was clip 2.

Here is a new one - our Bogner Shiva 2x12 el34, and the KPA profile of it. So far with both examples, the results of the opinions have been a coin toss, so it appears as though the KPA is a pretty serious contender here. Anyhow, one of the Shiva-KPA clips is the amp, one the KPA. Let's get some opinions here...


Stranded On A Planet's sounds on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free
Haha, I was right! To me it was a huge difference. Clip 1 in the first blind test sounded so fake.

In this blind test with Shiva, clip 1 is a real amp and 2 is Kemper. I would never use clip 2 in a mix! Lack of definition and doesn't sound real.

If I'm right again, I will never use Kemper or something similar.
Old 23rd February 2012
  #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crille View Post
Haha, I was right! To me it was a huge difference. Clip 1 in the first blind test sounded so fake.

In this blind test with Shiva, clip 1 is a real amp and 2 is Kemper. I would never use clip 2 in a mix! Lack of definition and doesn't sound real.

If I'm right again, I will never use Kemper or something similar.
Sorry to disappoint, clip 1 is the KPA.
Old 24th February 2012
  #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feck View Post
Sorry to disappoint, clip 1 is the KPA.


Sweet!

Thanks a lot for these, feck! Sorry for some of the...I hate this and that about these sorts of blind tests...malarkey! Is it identical to an amp...no. Is it well beyond close enough for me...absolutely! AND...if I want to hear a speaker pumping...I'll hook up a speaker and make it pump!

Ordering next week...thanks again, mate!
Old 24th February 2012
  #358
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feck's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Realtugs View Post


Sweet!

Thanks a lot for these, feck! Sorry for some of the...I hate this and that about these sorts of blind tests...malarkey! Is it identical to an amp...no. Is it well beyond close enough for me...absolutely! AND...if I want to hear a speaker pumping...I'll hook up a speaker and make it pump!

Ordering next week...thanks again, mate!
No problem, I am having a blast with this unit. Just finished the Shiva profiles, doing the Xits now. Fun as hell!
Old 24th February 2012
  #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feck View Post
No problem, I am having a blast with this unit. Just finished the Shiva profiles, doing the Xits now. Fun as hell!
Great stuff! My envy will be short lived!

Enjoy

Looking forward to hearing the Xits, too...cough cough, hint hint!
Old 24th February 2012
  #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crille View Post
Haha, I was right! To me it was a huge difference. Clip 1 in the first blind test sounded so fake.

In this blind test with Shiva, clip 1 is a real amp and 2 is Kemper. I would never use clip 2 in a mix! Lack of definition and doesn't sound real.

If I'm right again, I will never use Kemper or something similar.
I'd you post your findings before the parts were identified? I feel it's cheap I offer an opinion after the fact, because everyone knows the results anyway. It's important to not know the answer while listening for something so extremely subtle. Listening with the answers in mind will potentially sway ones judgement.
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