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SSL Nucleus - official info released Control Surfaces
Old 29th April 2016
  #1711
roc
Lives for gear
 
roc's Avatar
 

Does Nucleus sound card work on new Skylake proccessor iMacs ?

If not then the whole blaming the problem on haswell chips etc.... was just a big old myth .
Old 4th May 2016
  #1712
Solid State Logic
 
Jim@SSL's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by roc View Post
Does Nucleus sound card work on new Skylake proccessor iMacs ?

If not then the whole blaming the problem on haswell chips etc.... was just a big old myth .
Either a hox, or the same problem is in the Skylake chips as the Haswell. Just because it is a new chip does not mean that everything inside it is done in a different way.
Old 14th May 2016
  #1713
Lives for gear
 
Melgueil's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Either a hox, or the same problem is in the Skylake chips as the Haswell. Just because it is a new chip does not mean that everything inside it is done in a different way.
Jim, you're in a tough spot - so this is what I would expect you would say. For now, I stay on Yosemite and my 2012 fully loaded MacMini. I'm ok - for now.

However in 4-5 years time, unless the Nucleus sound card is updated, the sound card option will be no longer functional, for all intents and purposes.

As such, the clock is your (and our) enemy. If you are using ProTools built in obsolescence as a yard stick and or implying the sound card feature will soon work only with "vintage" gear (in this case vintage CPU's - that's almost funny), you are giving us an indication as to how much runway is left for this feature.

BTW, I'm not busting stones here, I like the Nuke. It's just that the reality is just as I explained it.

Cdlt
Old 16th May 2016
  #1714
Rea
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Rea's Avatar
 

Can anyone tell me what is the last Chip and Mac version that works with the Nuc?
Im on the verge of upgrading my system and want to take it into consideration, even though i hardly ever use that sound card...
Old 21st May 2016
  #1715
Lives for gear
 
Progmatic-Studios's Avatar
FWIW I have never used the Nucleus sound card or pre-amps and still love it!
Old 12th June 2016
  #1716
Gear Head
 

Tthe shame of SSL’s first foray into the home studio market sinks further…


Logic 10.2.3 just released and is only compatible with OSX 10.x, which surprise surprise is not compatible with the Nucleus according to the SSL site. It would appear that SSL have not bothered to develop any drivers for El Capitan (for the Nucleus at least) or if they have, they are shamefully late, as everyone else had a few difficulties too but all seem to have got across the line.

Here’s the list: perhaps you could hire Behringer to fix it for you, after all even Porsches have Passatt body frames these days…. But I seriously never thought I would think that Behringer made more reliable equipment than SSL.

https://discussions.apple.com/docs/DOC-8801

Let’s wind back to the first page of this thread when some people were moaning about USB being utilized instead of firewire.

Quoting Jim

‘USB - Nucleus was designed for a project studio (albeit a top-end one or one that generates income). In most of these that we visited you don't track drumkits. 2 ins and monitor outs is often enough, especially for the heavy ITB producer. PLUS, firewire is surely on it's way out. Every computer has USB and probably will continue to. So until LightPeak starts coming through then USB is probably the only universal connector.’

Jim makes the argument that no company could mitigate against future updates. Whilst this is clearly a fair point, it’s not like we are talking decades here and in actual fact I cannot think of one single USB device I have ever bought that is not backwards compatible, right back to sticking a USB 1.1 device in a USB3 port as I write this. The fact is it appears that all of SSL’s ‘lesser’ (i.e. 10 times cheaper) peers seem to have overcome any engineering difficulties or have found alternative solutions, perhaps recognising that a very large part of their customer community do actually use Macs and update them every year or so. SSL’s more recent assertion that “it works fine on some PC’s and older Mac’s” shames SSL, even more given that they themselves when launching the product stated “We pictured Nucleus for the heavy ITB producer”. A heavy ITM box producer is going to update their computer – they know this, they marketed the product specifically on that basis and even acknowledged they chose USB over Firewire to avoid future problems. I currently have 6 audio interfaces of varying age going right back to an MOTU828 mk1. And guess what they ALL work with my computer - the only one that doesn’t is the most expensive one I ever bought (yes my beloved SSL).

When the Nucleus came out I bought into the SSL prestige and don’t get me wrong - if it works I LOVE IT - but it doesn’t work and I certainly would not have paid £3500 for a Mackie control! (Ok 2 Mackie controls). For the last 12 months I’ve had to resort to a £125 presonus interface cause my £3500 hi-fidelity interface sounds likes it is being dragged down a gravelly road when I switch it on.

So I’ve had enough now and am looking for more concrete news and commitment from SSL – I’ve waited and been patient as have many on here have. We have tried to be polite and make our frustrations known in a constructive way, in my case at least cause I still actually DO still want my nucleus; it’s great but it doesn’t work.

You’ve made a lot of excuses Jim, and I appreciate you probably wish this problem hadn’t happened as much as we do, cause those pesky third party developers don’t have to deal with customers do they? But unfortunately as ‘Sales Director’ that is your job (I used to do the same job so I have some sympathy for your dilemma) but I can’t help feel like SSL have called this BADLY BADLY wrong.

If it were me in order to repair the damage I would advocate RMA'ing ALL nucleus' and retrofitting a new USB board - yes it wont be cheap (logistically but suspect the USB cost isn’t prohibitive if I can buy a USB interface off Amazon for less than £20)

Yes this might be a simplistic view, yes it might wipe out any profit you have made on the Nucleus product, but it might also buy you the opportunity to have a go again in the future at expanding out of the 'PRO' market without people wondering whether they can trust you as an organisation, and as you have implied that you subcontracted the driver development to a third party I would suggest you take issue with them – but WE are YOUR customers, and you’re supposed to be a prestige brand, a beacon for excellence and a British engineering success story.

I would suggest at the moment the mere fact this problem even happened in the first place, given how many audio interfaces are on the market that work for years is damaging to your reputation for engineering excellence (USB is not exactly new technology and most developers seem to have foreseen or had the experience to ensure that Intel don’t break their product – after all it’s not exactly a surprise is it? – my Intel processor was probably out of date in the time it took me to unbox my Nucleus).

But mistakes happen; that’s life, but far more damming to SSL’s reputation (in my view) is your responses on behalf of SSL (paraphrased short version - multiple occurrences of “sorry but tough luck guys, we can’t do anything and aren’t willing to take any responsibility for our actions”) I would suggest that if anyone were to read back your responses as a senior staff member on behalf of SSL on this forum; they would come away with serious questions as to SSL’s broader commitment to its (less rich) customers. I feel that at the very least, at this stage you (meaning SSL – it’s not personal Jim) have done unquantifiable damage to your brand by not leading more decisively on this issue despite how difficult that might be to do in practice - and let’s be clear you have an AMAZING brand and heritage, and it IS quite within your capability to fix this problem.

But as things stand I personally would never touch another SSL product again unless you guys admit YOUR engineering / supplier management / lack of digital consumer experience mistake, and collectively face up to the resolving of this issue. Yes I know your terms will offer the fig leaf of protection, and in most cases rightly so, but for a £3500 audio interface to have a practical shelf life of less than 5 years is:

1. Plain wrong – especially given the engineering excellence that your brand is built on
2. Unfit for purpose in practice, even if on paper you almost certainly will have terms to cover you, and a direct contradiction to your own marketing given that’s why you choose USB so would all be protected when giving you our money, and buying into the SSL mystique.
3. Risky given the cost and intent of the product – I’ve spent enough time with solicitors to know that:
a. They never give you a cast iron guarantee on terms anyway (or anything for that matter) because they don’t have to deal with the fallout do they? – either way it’s just more work for them, and hey ‘I cant control the judge’
b. Terms and conditions always neglect to set out reasonableness which in my experience the small claims courts ALWAYS do consider – especially when its consumer vs. company
c. I appreciate that whatever your response is you will not acknowledge this point (I wouldn’t either) but I’m just saying I’d personally take my chances and encourage others on here to join me, but am still rather hoping (like lots of us on here are) that you just redouble your efforts and find a solution

In summary I hope to withdraw all of the above if once and for all we get some commitment, but failing that I can only draw the conclusion that unless you are talented enough to be able to afford to spend £25k plus with SSL, the evidence would suggest that culturally you are not really that interested in how your non-celebrity customers feel about the experience, so spend your money carefully….

I'm going to finish on a positive and make it clear the Nucleus IS a great product - the build is great, it sounds amazing (or did), the surface and workflow are first class. When I bought it, I had an early unit and it had to be changed a few times, but I was so enthralled with the unit and my little piece of the SSL brand that I was patient and to be fair Jim you personally sorted the issue when I was onto my fifth unit (and gave me a few plugins to say sorry – which was first class customer service).

As a CEO myself of a smaller but nevertheless multimillion pound company, I suspect that your board are telling you to hold the line on this issue. If it were me I would have probably done the same in the first instance (investors rarely thank you for losing money after all) but given all of the above and today’s developments I personally would recognise it will probably cost SSL more in the long term by not addressing this issue fully, and whilst I wouldn’t enjoy the meeting my investors when I put forward this strategy, it is what I would advise them to do for the longer term protection of the business.

If the economics of my argument are simply too unviable then at the very least, I’d be offering significant compensation so I don’t lose all my FUTURE customers for your higher end products.

The fact that your CEO appointed a new Head of Technology the year after the Nucleus was released makes me think this is all old news to you, and whilst of course commercially you can never admit it, I’m assuming that Mr. David has probably been modernising the business systematically, and so probably fixed this problem several years ago by appointing Dr. Gonzalez to make sure mistakes like this didn’t become more common and damage your brand. And I’m sure you’ve all learned the lessons privately too – you’re obviously a company of very smart people but your position on this subject is now in my view not even in your own interest as a business, regardless of any view on customer loyalty morals.

I would usually provide comments such as this more privately in the first instance, but despite my best efforts I could find no email address on your website or via linkedin (congratulations on the promotion by the way) but as there are clearly many others like me (yes I see there are some lucky souls using it just as a control surface, with Sigma’s and such like but we are not all that rich) I have at least tried to make the case for people such as myself in a balanced manner in the hope that this will elicit a similar response.

So in writing this perhaps you could pass on my comments to your board and Mr. David, and maybe a re-evaluation of the company’s position could at least be discussed?

I know this is a subjective view and I don’t have full site of the economics but I would love to able to use the most expensive piece of studio equipment I have ever purchased, and have my faith restored in my first experience with one of the world’s leading audio engineering manufacturers.

You’re going to need to sell less £100k consoles and more mid-level gear in the future to survive I suspect (you already know this I’m sure) so please do the right thing – correct the mistake - make us all happy and maybe we will buy a nucleus 2 or even a matrix 3 (or even a C300D – we can dream).

In the consumer end of the market you’re primarily selling (or at least making a profit from selling) more units to people like me; who to varying degrees, make up for our lack of sustainable musical talent by convincing ourselves that a lack of the SSL fairy dust is the ‘only reason’ we can’t finish more than 2 records a year and if we just had it….

So feed my denial please - boys love their shiny toys and despite all that has happened I still find myself wanting to like SSL – the British engineering, the brand and heritage is that strong! Don’t throw it all away based on your first foray into the opposite end of the market to that where you have historically thrived.

Yours in hope,

Pete
Old 12th June 2016
  #1717
Lives for gear
Rather well said.
Old 12th June 2016
  #1718
Gear Addict
 
Lupez's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawforp View Post
Logic 10.2.3 just released and is only compatible with OSX 10.x, which surprise surprise is not compatible with the Nucleus according to the SSL site. It would appear that SSL have not bothered to develop any drivers for El Capitan (for the Nucleus at least) or if they have, they are shamefully late, as everyone else had a few difficulties too but all seem to have got across the line.
this is not correct, sorry.
Logic 10.2.3 works nicely on Yosemite, as Nucleus does.
But I agree with you that SSL is to blame for the laggish development of Nucleus.
In the meantime (hoping that this gets sorted out sooner or later) I suggest you make the same move I did: go back to Yosemite and hope for the best. I really didn't need the Nucleus sound card as I use a Symphony I/O as main converter but having a backup is always a safe move and I am glad I did it.

Last edited by Lupez; 12th June 2016 at 06:22 PM..
Old 12th June 2016
  #1719
Lives for gear
Just updated as well

The sword of Damocles still remains dangled precariously until the next update :D

I would also like to add and reiterate that MY personal issue is the regarding some of the cavalier commentary provided in this thread that imho, is a little bit disrespectful to the end users (paying customers). But you can't argue with personality. Hence my not really contributing further to this thread.
I still have great faith in the product and the company as a whole, and am proud to have been associated with them for so long.

I just hope that SSL are reading this and provide the customer support that is (and always has been) second to none. I can't but help find it hard to believe that this is such a massive problem (caveat - I don't understand software engineering etc)

C'mon guys - your SSL this is your THING!!
Old 16th June 2016
  #1720
Solid State Logic
 
Jim@SSL's Avatar
 

Yes, SSL is reading this, especially well-written passionate pleas such as lawforp's.

However, there is a reality to this which makes it near impossible to solve. It frustrates us relentlessly and we know it has impaired our reputation. However we're not the first (and certainly won't be the last) manufacturer that is unable to support 6-year-old audio hardware and drivers.

The USB control section inside the Nucleus was licensed from a third-party supplier. This supplier has never been "great" with driver support, and over the last 3 years they have faded away in to nothingness leaving us only with vapour and hardware that is incompatible with the latest processors. This company has not released a replacement for the USB product we fitted in to Nucleus. We have never written drivers for it and have been entirely dependent on the third party to do so. This is far more common than you may think in the industry and I only know of 3 or 4 people (outside of other manufacturers) who write good drivers. None of this solves the problem we face.

The USB board in question is built in to a larger PCB on Nucleus, so it is nowhere near a "cut and shut" to simply replace it with another soundcard interface. The idea of a recall and refit is unsustainable and would more than cost any profits made from the entire sales of Nucleus. Sorry, this is not an option.

As I've said many times before in this thread, I agree that this falls far below the standard SSL aspire to, and I don't think that comments like "unless you're spending £25k SSL are not interested" are unfair. We have many other products at lower price points that work as well today as they day they were released.

I do truly understand how something that was the centre of your studio no longer working after updates is rubbish. Truly I do. I have never for a moment tried to swerve this. But equally, I do at time get a little prickly about people suggesting "obvious" solutions to the issue when they have limited knowledge of the issues behind it and the lengths that we have gone to in order to try and find a solution for this.

I'll stand, I'll take a kicking. I have massive sympathy for anyone who is scuppered by the soundcard in Nucleus not working for them. It is embarrassing that a USB interface that has optical SPDIF solves everything.

None of that changes my ability to actually do what you'd like me to do here. Sorry.
Old 16th June 2016
  #1721
Thank you Jim for your passionate approach to customers. I love my Nucleus which I use on a daily basis, and don't use its audio interface since I have a larger system. But, I have to say, Nucleus audio interface was rubbish from day one.
Old 16th June 2016
  #1722
Lives for gear
I appreciate your response Jim. It can't be easy to face up to unhappy customers.

Quote:
However we're not the first (and certainly won't be the last) manufacturer that is unable to support 6-year-old audio hardware and drivers.
but you are one of the BEST.....

I fully appreciate that the costs are probably prohibitive, but we, the users, have to ask anyway.

Quote:
I do truly understand how something that was the centre of your studio no longer working after updates is rubbish. Truly I do. I have never for a moment tried to swerve this. But equally, I do at time get a little prickly about people suggesting "obvious" solutions to the issue when they have limited knowledge of the issues behind it and the lengths that we have gone to in order to try and find a solution for this.
Well, with all due respect Jim, until someone else comes along from SSL to take the brunt of the customer's upset, you'll have to.
After all, we're the ones who've spent the money Who else do we raise our concerns with?

Quote:
I'll stand, I'll take a kicking. I have massive sympathy for anyone who is scuppered by the soundcard in Nucleus not working for them. It is embarrassing that a USB interface that has optical SPDIF solves everything.
I don't (and I sure anybody else does either) relish in one of my favourite companies (notice how I don't section that statement to just audio) being embarrassed or someone taking a "kicking". We're grown ups after all. But there has to be some way forward.

I'm intrigued about the SPDIF option - I hadn't considered it. Ironically, one of my favourite parts of Nucleus/SSLs is the Control Room level.
If there's a way for me to use this via a loopback through SPDIF (clutching at straws here), I'd be happy to work around the issue - after all I *am* an Engineer who's used to this type of thing!

As stated initially, my annoyance was the attitude shown at the time. I didn't take kindly to the complete lack of appreciation or respect for not just my use, but prospective new users. THAT (imho) was unprofessional, especially when representing such a brand as SSL.
If you don't agree, well, that's your opinion. I'm voicing mine.

But I would like to forge a pathway forward, and would welcome any thoughts you and the tech team have. I need to come down and see Banksy (Mike) at some stage anyway.

Dan
Old 17th June 2016
  #1723
Solid State Logic
 
Jim@SSL's Avatar
 

The underlying issue that causes this problem is hardware-based. There is a part of the audio hardware that does not work with later-generation Intel chips. You might remember a bunch of companies having issues with USB2 devices being plugged into USB3 ports on particular Macs (such as Native INstruments, Focusrite - heck some people even had to buy a powered USB hub for their iLoks to work!). All those other companies found a fix for it, which suggests there were no issues with the core hardware. Our third-party supplier didn't.

It seems to be that case that later Mac OSes are dependent on handling this change in the core chipset - something that we (and the third-party supplier, and 18 months of direct contact with Apple) were not able to solve.

I'd really love to be able to just release a patch, or hire another contractor to write better code, or get Intel/Apple to publicly recognise and fix the issue, or any other of the numerous options we explored to try and solve this. I just can't.
Old 17th June 2016
  #1724
Gear Addict
 
Lupez's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
The underlying issue that causes this problem is hardware-based. There is a part of the audio hardware that does not work with later-generation Intel chips. You might remember a bunch of companies having issues with USB2 devices being plugged into USB3 ports on particular Macs (such as Native INstruments, Focusrite - heck some people even had to buy a powered USB hub for their iLoks to work!). All those other companies found a fix for it, which suggests there were no issues with the core hardware. Our third-party supplier didn't.

It seems to be that case that later Mac OSes are dependent on handling this change in the core chipset - something that we (and the third-party supplier, and 18 months of direct contact with Apple) were not able to solve.

I'd really love to be able to just release a patch, or hire another contractor to write better code, or get Intel/Apple to publicly recognise and fix the issue, or any other of the numerous options we explored to try and solve this. I just can't.
Ok it's an hardware related issue.
But what about older Macs with USB 2.0 ports...why no drivers for El Captain??
It's just software.
The same machine with Yosemite works nicely.
Please elaborate a bit.

Last edited by Lupez; 17th June 2016 at 12:48 PM..
Old 17th June 2016
  #1725
Gear Head
 

Jim,

Could you please elaborate on the spdif point as this was how I tried to fix the problem, but for the spdif to work the nucleus has to be connected via usb, and as it ALWAYS insists on being the clock master I find it to still be crackly and often it just won't pick up the signal at all.

This might well be my other sound cards but I've tried rme / presonus. Perhaps if as you have said my suggestion was too costly (which I accepted in my piece that it might be) you could still go along way to helping users find a solution.

I'll have to agree to disagree with you at this stage regarding whether you should support 6 year old drivers, but as you yourself stated it was the reason usb was installed it seems a rather disingenuous position to hold, particularly given you'll happily support 20 year old consoles that you have supplied.

Maybe your teams could get a outsource a better coder to update the drivers - after all we still need these for El Capitan. Given how well it would work they could also develop a profile for the new logic smart controls, which again are being released by the day from other suppliers, yet again from the premier controller for logic nothing, no commitment, just it's complicated. Well I'm sure that's true but if others can do surely you can?

And then maybe you could test spdif with some alternative 2 in 2 out usb interfaces and offer us a discounted solution? At least then we could use the monitoring and preamps. ive never been able to get the preamps to send audio via spdif (and yes understand need to change settings)

We are not asking for the earlh Jim just some solid commitment. The fact that you never appear willing to give any (even on the smart control point) makes me wonder whether this is effectively a discontinued product? Maybe new buyers beware.

This forum can get personal and ludicrous at times, so I've tried very hard Jim to make a case which explores solutions rather than just moans. So far I'm still not seeing even any ideas. Surely you can at least see the benefits of the above as a cheaper alternative?

If not (cause I'm still not clear other than by inference which you then call unfair) what SSL's position is on

1. supporting current units in an capacity
2. Future driver / profile developmemt for the nucleus.

Please could we either have some more proactive interchange on mine and others willingness to work with you to find practical ideas that might 'bodge' the issue, or failing that but at the very least have the official answer even if that means it's not what we want to hear.

I'm just personakky sick of the whole issue now, and the amount of effort I've had to make to use my machine so please put me out of my misery one way or another, so I can decide where I go next

Please help us

Pete
Old 17th June 2016
  #1726
Lives for gear
 
Analogue Mastering's Avatar
Here are some thoughts:
- open up the USB stack for public development, call out the ODM and chipset u use.
- it works on Windows, so surely it's not a hardware issue, find other companies who use the same chipset and find out how they resolved it.
I can't believe this is an unsolveable hardware issue, I do believe it's a lack of 3rd pty competence issue. You "just" need to find the right developer.
Old 17th June 2016
  #1727
Gear Addict
 
Lupez's Avatar
Hey Pete, did you manage to get the SPDIF working (partly) even if the USB part is dead? I couldn't...please enlighten me!
Old 18th June 2016
  #1728
roc
Lives for gear
 
roc's Avatar
 

When Nucleus 2 comes out which most likely will at some point. I hope SSL has a very generous upgrade path for current Nucleus owners or a upgrade path into another one of SSL products that actually works as advertised .

The audio interface is a big reason why I dropped $3000 grand on the Nucleus and it doesn't work and never will . Why should the buyer take the lost while SSL moves on to "New" products.
I believe SSL will do what's right and somehow take care of Nucleus owners , we deserve it .
Old 19th June 2016
  #1729
Gear Head
 

has ssl even dropped the price because of this? or has the price remained the same even though part of it does not work?
Old 23rd June 2016
  #1730
Here for the gear
 

Just a stab in the dark here, but will MacOS Sierra maybe improve the situation? Has anyone tried this?
Old 26th June 2016
  #1731
Here for the gear
 
futureplan's Avatar
 

How do I create a Generic Midi layer in Nucleus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sigmatibet View Post
First create a Generic Midi layer in Nucleus, then set Cubase quick controls and midi learn using that layer.
How can I do that?

Thanks
Old 28th June 2016
  #1732
Gear Head
 

You would definitely have to use the Nucleus driver to use the s/pdif part of the unit, even though its stated otherwise in the manual.
a passthrough from analog to s/spif can only be achieved via the Nucleus driver wich introduces a hefty amount of latency as it is no direct passthrough.
So those supposedly pristine converters are practically useless in a recording session.
I now connect the Pre-Out of the nucleus into the analog ins of my fireface. this way i lose 2 analog inputs but it works fine.


I would have loved to convert the preamps signal to s/pdif going into my fireface and usng the nucleus as a slave.
btw. i am on windows and the usb driver works but really honestly the audio interface part of the nucleus was very bad to begin with so i would never bother to use it.
Even the cheapest audio interfaces outperform the Nucleus by far regarding ASIO performance/latency.

Just see it as a controller and its a good unit. even though i wish it had Eucon or OSC support for a more deep integration with cubase and others

Last edited by Dudelstudio; 29th June 2016 at 07:21 PM..
Old 10th July 2016
  #1733
Lives for gear
Hello Nucleus users. I'm still considering one, have not been able to justify it.

My intention is not to hijack this thread, but this appeared to be the right place to ask a question. I'm in a very non-typical situation.

Background.

I have been piecing together a DAW and MIDI and Audio workstation for about 5 years. Hardy any used other than as a Drum brain.

My last system was ADAT based with an O2R at the center. Time to move to hard drive....dammit I hate this computer stuff. Just want it to work right. Full current MIDI and good sound. Enough system for 16 tracks at once recorded and 32-48 at mix.

The MX4 at 96K does have it's limits. I have spent about 10 hours playing with the max limits of the mixer. I will have to set up one mixer for each task: Write song from scatch, Track drums, Track band, Edit Midi, Edit Audio, Mix, Master. It's does not have the power to do everything at once. I may be able to get it down to three setups. Tracking, Mixing, E-Drums. I can eat up all it's power just working with the E-drums. This is the core of the system. Getting every last ounce out of an E-drum setup. Then blend in being able to track and rhythm section with the drums in a dynamic MIDI-Audio environment for initial song writing. Can't really justify another MX-4 because it's already a legacy product that is Windows 7/64 unless I do a complete system overhall to Soundscape 7 /Windows 10 touch screen that would cost me another 5K by the time all the plugs, software, and hardware, were upgraded. And I would have a more difficult time with older stuff like the MCU, V-700, etc.....

The core of the system is Soundscape, SSL Alpha link + MX4. Running at 24/96. I have been using Sonar as a host to BFD3 that is my main plug. I just finished collecting mic's and wiring up a patch bay. Soundscape IS the routing system between A/D D/A and anything inside the box.

I would like to only use the Audio inside soundscape, where as Sonar would be used for all MIDI and soft synths. If a Sonar only plug is needed, I will use sonar for the sound as well, but only when some need arises. Without simple accurate lock between soundscape and sonar, I must keep traffic one way. Limiting.

The main mix will be a combination of track output levels from soundscape, Soft output levels from Sonar, and 8 channels of External rack gear and 24 channels of analog summer.

Question.

Now it's down to the last thing. The controllers. I'm trying to figure out the best workflow from a control surface standpoint.

Here is what I have to work with now: V-700, MCU+2extenders+C4, Softube Console-1

Testing I have done.

I was able to get both V-700 and MCU to work at the same time in Sonar. Moving faders on one would make the other faders moves. I think I found ways of setting up all the faders how I want, but would take some learning.

The Console-1 works as a native plug for sonar. It's workflow is awesome. Especially if you also have faders. Then you can at least change one tracks level while adjusting the EQ of an other track. Now the controls would work the same way an old O2R provided.

What I have not done:

Any kind of testing of control surfaces inside soundscape........and why I ask here.

Here are possible solutions to my current setup.
1. Use V-700 for sonar. use MTC to lock soundscape for most MIDI work as a mixer. Continue to work this way even when mixing just in soundscape. Sonar transports always control soundscape. IE buttons on V-700
2. Use Nucleus as controller for both. Expect a long learning curve to set up AXT in sonar to work with SSL Nucleus.
3. Use V-700 for Sonar, Use MCU for Soundscape. This options gives the most faders. During final mix, 22 faders (From D/A) to the summer and 2 faders over the master would be perfect.
4. What would be cool is a Nucleus and Console-1 working together in both soundscape and Sonar.

Whats the coolest way to set up a mixture of Soundscape and Sonar? And to open a huge can of worms....should I change MIDI platforms for better compatibility with Soundscape that I am tied to with hardware. Like Cubase. Sonar appears to handle BFD3 as a 64bitVST3 very well.

Other notes: One of my pet peeves in controllers is when they don't have a row of 5 buttons for controllers. I Learned on a BRC (Adat master controller) that had fantastic buttons. I was hell on wheels punching in with that things. I have yet to find a good modern day DAW set of transports on a controller. This is one of things I really like about the Nucleus.....proper transports! They are still a bit smaller than I would like. Larger easier buttons to hit and know when you are holding a half hit make things move along faster.


Would yall suggest I use the Nucleus or will I have good luck setting up the MCU to control soundscape and not Sonar, where as a V-700 controls sonar.

Then the problem becomes how to connect and disconnect the transports. Most of the time I will want Sonar in control, but I will want to free wheel between them, and record jam sessions with Soundscape only, and learn how to add on Sonar to it later.

Any related experience on transport and multi controller multi DAW setups would be appreciated. What would you suggest I spend my time at trying to set up?

Have any tried using Softube inside of Soundscape? How about using Softube hosted by bluecat to have channels in both DAW at the same time?

Other notes:

I'm moving all MIDI note traffic to copperland to get that on the network connection. USB MIDI is used heavily by all the hardware synth controllers and input controllers. This avoids all the MIDI-USB translations for performance.

I have tons of external preamps and have a monitor controller. I could care less about any packaged preamps or talk back sections.

My second round of mixing learning was done on an O2R. Being limited to once channel at a time EQ really took some adjusting but I'm now used to it.

I would like to use the Nucleus or Console-1 to control the MX4 card SSL EQ & Comp plugs using MIDI.

I don't use much on the control surface while playing E-Drums, so the MIDI traffic is also self limiting that way.

Last edited by elegentdrum; 10th July 2016 at 06:25 PM..
Old 28th July 2016
  #1734
Lives for gear
 
Progmatic-Studios's Avatar
I've got one Nucleus for sale (got 2 now because of a studio merge).
If anyone's interested please send me a message. Thanks
Solid State Logic Nucleus
Old 2nd August 2016
  #1735
Gear Head
Don't worry, no kicking here, but......

Could SSL please consider making a Nucleus 2.0 that is a DAW controller ONLY. It blows every other controller out of the water under $10k and it seems most use it primarily for DAW control and the pres, not for monitoring and the interface.. I would pay $3k for just the controller and I think there would be very little competition and a lot of customers in that price range. An option to add mic pres would be nice...

The next best things compared to the Nucleus (on a pure controller comparison) are the Mackie Universal Pro and Mixed Logic M24. The Mackie units aren't very inspiring and the M24 is an outdated behemoth, weighing in at 38 lbs. Honestly, you have to step up to the Yamaha Nuage or Avid S6 boards to feel like you're getting something you want to use (besides the Nucleus)...

I understand the convenience of having an all in one package with the signature SSL sound built in, but most of us shopping in this price range already have a nice collection of interfaces, pres and monitoring units (including those made by SSL). I've been holding off buying a Nucleus for the last 6 months in hopes that something new comes out, but there is nothing. I'll probably end up buying a used Nucleus for around $3k and hope that the previous owner didn't abuse it... I would rather buy a new unit without the extra components I don't need... I'm sure you're aware the small studio market is going to continue its growth as new avenues for selling music allow us to venture off on our own.. I think SSL has a real opportunity here.

Edit: Doing this would make the Nucleus 2.0 and X Desk a killer (non-redundant) pair. If there's one thing small studios have to avoid, it's redundancy..
Old 14th August 2016
  #1736
Here for the gear
 

Waiting on updates

Dear Jim,

I've been in touch with SSL via email and I'm afraid to say we haven't made much progress.

I'm just trying to figure out if there's a workaround at this point.

My SSL NUCLEUS CONTROL PANEL isn't recognising my Nucleus and I can't even route the pres over the spdif connections.

I know there's a lot of (completely justified) angst on this thread but I'm seeing zero solutions And it's been quite a while.

Don't leave your customers hanging, please. especially after they've pretty much had to sell their kidneys to buy your products.

Thank you,
Apurv
Old 14th August 2016
  #1737
Gear Addict
 
Lupez's Avatar
I hope SSL is considering a Nucleus 2 with a tighter integration with Sigma and possibly a better user experience and smaller price...
Old 14th August 2016
  #1738
hey if they make it strictly a daw controller im in!...(24 channels?!! )
Old 15th August 2016
  #1739
Solid State Logic
 
Jim@SSL's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by apurvisaac View Post
Dear Jim,

I've been in touch with SSL via email and I'm afraid to say we haven't made much progress.

I'm just trying to figure out if there's a workaround at this point.

My SSL NUCLEUS CONTROL PANEL isn't recognising my Nucleus and I can't even route the pres over the spdif connections.

I know there's a lot of (completely justified) angst on this thread but I'm seeing zero solutions And it's been quite a while.

Don't leave your customers hanging, please. especially after they've pretty much had to sell their kidneys to buy your products.

Thank you,
Apurv
Please PM me your support incident number and I'll give the team a nibble for you.
Old 19th August 2016
  #1740
Hi [email protected],
Just a thought: any chance you could use ethernet connection for AVB or Dante stream, bypassing usb chipset? (a Dante or AVB retrofit would maybe do this)
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