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New Yamaha monitors (HS50M , HS80M) anybody tried them yet?
Old 20th September 2008
  #91
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Tube World's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNoize View Post
HS50M - Do they sound like crap, very much like the NS10? You bet they do! They're as unflattering as it gets, and that's what a real, professional mixing engineer wants. That's why I got them.

You can mix on virtually any speakers if you take the time to get used to them. I chose to get used to the NS10 sound since the beginning. Because it's a standard and amazing mixes were historically done on them. Maybe there's better mixing speakers out there, maybe not. You would have to get used to them first, anyway!

Who cares if there's better mixing speakers? Andy Wallace and Tom Lord Alge mix on NS10 and the results are amazing. If it's good enough for them as main reference, it's good enough for me, no matter what anyone says.

I can't help laughing when these kids come up and say that Yamahas are not good as main reference and they got some Events or Genelecs because the sound was so much "prettier" and "better" and "less hyped"....
I have a question to those kids: do you guys want to mix because that's what you do in life, or you want something for the listening pleasure of playing Diana Krall everytime you bring your little girlfriend for a sleep-over?

I'm an audiophile too, but I know the difference between a nearfield monitor and a hi fi speaker. Maybe you should ask yourself: are you a professional or you just want something that makes you feel like your mix is actually sounding ok?
Ah, read this review I found. I have heard these new white speakers and I agree with the reviewer that they are not the same as the NS10's. HS 80M + HS 50M + HS 10W
Old 20th September 2008
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scintilla View Post
So I am interested in getting a pair of monitors and have found this thread very helpful. I just record my own stuff, samples, software synths, guitars, whatever I can find.

I am using just my ordinary, hi-fi computer speakers right now so I imagine anything is a step up.

At first I was looking at the NS-10M's but I'd have to get the amp and spend a lot of cash on something used over ebay.

So would i be more interested in the HS50's or the HS80's do you think?

If i get the 50's would I want the sub? Should I get the 80's without the sub?

I am interested in making just experimental, electronic music, any suggestions would be helpful, I am mostly concerned about getting the 50's or the 80's and whether or not I should get the sub, thanks for the help
Maybe this will also help.
Check out the reviews @ Sweetwater:

Yamaha HS50M Reviews | Sweetwater.com

Yamaha HS80M Reviews | Sweetwater.com
Old 20th September 2008
  #93
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scintilla,

Subs can be a pain in the ass to set up properly and if not set up properly, can do more harm than good as far as your mixes translating well.

You have the room your mixing in to consider, the placement of the Sub, etc...

For the type of music your into, You're not going to get the lows with the 50's. I would go with the 80's without the Sub.

Also, If you're in an area where you can demo the Monitors, I would highly suggest you do that. This way you get to hear for yourself.

Just my 2 cents...

Hope this helps
Old 22nd September 2008
  #94
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by izzi View Post
scintilla,

Subs can be a pain in the ass to set up properly and if not set up properly, can do more harm than good as far as your mixes translating well.

You have the room your mixing in to consider, the placement of the Sub, etc...

For the type of music your into, You're not going to get the lows with the 50's. I would go with the 80's without the Sub.

Also, If you're in an area where you can demo the Monitors, I would highly suggest you do that. This way you get to hear for yourself.

Just my 2 cents...

Hope this helps
yes, yes, all very helpful, probably what I will go with! thank you much!
Old 22nd September 2008
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scintilla View Post
yes, yes, all very helpful, probably what I will go with! thank you much!
Cool, glad to help!

I don't know where you're located but if you do go with 80's, I think GC is selling them for $300 each and if you order them through Sweetwater you can probably get them down to about $310 a piece.

Good Luck!

Old 7th October 2008
  #96
Gear Maniac
 
TheNoize's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by izzi View Post
Cool, glad to help!

I don't know where you're located but if you do go with 80's, I think GC is selling them for $300 each and if you order them through Sweetwater you can probably get them down to about $310 a piece.

Good Luck!

Yeah Sweetwater is usually better (unless there's a better deal fro some reason at GC).
Old 8th October 2008
  #97
Quote:
Originally Posted by izzi View Post
scintilla,

Subs can be a pain in the ass to set up properly and if not set up properly, can do more harm than good as far as your mixes translating well.

You have the room your mixing in to consider, the placement of the Sub, etc...

I would go with the 80's without the Sub.

Hope this helps
Absolutely.

Since I don't have much room treatment, I went for the 80s without the sub and the sound here in my space is so much better than the sub-setups I've experienced in some fellow producers' space. One of these guys has a HS50 and he's wondering if he gets a sub or replace those for the 80s....my advice was to replace, since he has no room treatment.

I basically produce dance-floor rhythms and the 80s felt like a glove here. In fact, in the last months I've been even using its room control feature lately (-2db lo-shelf @ 100Hz) cause my room has some exaggerated bass on one side. A sub here would make a REAL mess.

Overall, like 100 people already said: no doubts the 80s are the best buy for the price.
Old 22nd October 2008
  #98
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TheNoize's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by diogo_c View Post
Absolutely.

Since I don't have much room treatment, I went for the 80s without the sub and the sound here in my space is so much better than the sub-setups I've experienced in some fellow producers' space. One of these guys has a HS50 and he's wondering if he gets a sub or replace those for the 80s....my advice was to replace, since he has no room treatment.

I basically produce dance-floor rhythms and the 80s felt like a glove here. In fact, in the last months I've been even using its room control feature lately (-2db lo-shelf @ 100Hz) cause my room has some exaggerated bass on one side. A sub here would make a REAL mess.

Overall, like 100 people already said: no doubts the 80s are the best buy for the price.
Is really room treatment that much of an issue when using a subwoofer? I have my doubts about whether a subwoofer raises the need for room treatment...
Old 8th November 2008
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNoize View Post
Is really room treatment that much of an issue when using a subwoofer? I have my doubts about whether a subwoofer raises the need for room treatment...
I was reading your posts on this whole thread thinking "what a dick head"
I just cant believe your statement: "I have my doubts about whether a subwoofer raises the need for room treatment..."
I heard your mixes at myspace btw.and i think you need room treatment and a sub woofer at your mixing room ASAP .
And for your attitude ,find a girlfriend .
And yes i agree HS 50 M are good monitors and with proper room treatment a sub woofer can help ...

Nice day
Old 8th November 2008
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bass man View Post
I was reading your posts on this whole thread thinking "what a dick head"
I just cant believe your statement: "I have my doubts about whether a subwoofer raises the need for room treatment..."
I heard your mixes at myspace btw.and i think you need room treatment and a sub woofer at your mixing room ASAP .
And for your attitude ,find a girlfriend .
And yes i agree HS 50 M are good monitors and with proper room treatment a sub woofer can help ...

Nice day
Ahh yes, the master speaks. Criticizing other people's attitudes and mixes. Someone should have already told you I don't put up with ****heads like you. Grow the f*ck up, oompa loompa. Maybe then you can have a mix that is half the quality of mine, and maybe get heard by someone. Until then, you're just a little brat.
Old 18th January 2009
  #101
Here for the gear
Smile Yamaha's

This thread is cracking me up..I'm buying HS50's dont have much cash so these will do.
Of course they wont be for everyone..No ****!
Thers way too many monitors out there, and after millions of mags ive read and they all have NS10's in at least one studio pic..I wanted some..but now they dont make whateva the cone was made of so seen Ns10M's but then again these are passive right??

And cant afford an amp to go with it right now..
Been making mixes off of stereo speakers with rooted tweeters but oh well make do..

So i know anything will do better than these..and like "the Noize" says just learn your speaker.. test it on other speakers and against pro tracks and evetually you'll know what to tweak..thats all..

Thanks everyone... Peace.Make good music
Old 20th January 2009
  #102
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Agreed's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNoize View Post
Ahh yes, the master speaks. Criticizing other people's attitudes and mixes. Someone should have already told you I don't put up with ****heads like you. Grow the f*ck up, oompa loompa. Maybe then you can have a mix that is half the quality of mine, and maybe get heard by someone. Until then, you're just a little brat.
You have a funny ego

But your mixes sound good, with a mainstream commercial polish to them that isn't easy to achieve. I don't like your preferred monitors much at all, but you put together a good finished product using them. That's what matters. And as you know it's a matter of learning the nuances of your speakers. After a certain price point, speakers stop having huge deficiencies and it's just a matter of understanding what they do and don't give you, how much, and how to use that information. Remarkable is the fact that the HS80M push that price point down even further than it used to be. That's the one reason I might recommend them to others. Although I agree with others that the HS50M are flatter, if you've got bass reinforcement to work with anyway.
Old 2nd February 2009
  #103
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88fingerz's Avatar
 

The vocal level (all tunes) & the lower bass can come up a bit, ya know!
Old 20th April 2009
  #104
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5thString's Avatar
 

HS-50 alone? HS-50+sub? HS-80?
It is confusing. I tried to find some info here and there and I still can't decide (please note that I can't find a place around where I can actually listen to them side by side).

When I do some reading I find comments that either "the hs-50" are a must have, but "not the hs-80". On other comments, it says "If you have the $$ get the hs-80 rather than the hs-50".

Is the sound fundamentally different, apart from the lack of low frequencies in the hs-50s? Does a hs-50+sub combination provide a better set of tools than the hs-80s to mix pop/rock in an adequately treated room?

Can anyone please give me more details on how the two compare (or three if we take into account the hs-50+sub possibility)?
Old 10th September 2009
  #105
Lives for gear
Oh well

I understand what Thse Noize is trying to say.
It's just that TheNoize always do "say it in your face" type of attitude might drives people crazy sometimes.(just like Yamaha speakers)

But i surely understand why he was pissing off.
During whole 90's record industrial; the rival between Yamaha and Genelec was already a huge debate.

Yamaha's NS10 is playing a dark character while Genelec 1031a represent a sunshine character.

A great mix will sound great in Genelec , and a bad mix will still sound great in Genelec; however, a great mix will sound ok in Yamaha, a bad mix will sound hell bad in yamaha.

Is Yamaha NS10 an accurate flat frequency response speakers?
HELL NO. However, neither our ears, and rooms.
Human ears are not flat response, we hardly hear anything clear below 50hz and above 12000hz; and, we hear everything very clearly around 1k to 5K hz.
Ironically, the strength of NS10 is the range where human hearing the strongest: the high mid 1k to 5khz.
This is why we often feel discomfort after listen yamaha for long time. Because what yamaha is focusing exactly the range where we are most sensitive.
On the other side, Genelec has totally opposite approach, they roll-off the 2k-4k slidly to decrease that kind of (IN YOUR FACE TALKING JUST LIKE THE-NONISE). So ya, you will always feel comfortable and happy when you listen to Genelec.

HS80M = NS10?
NO. But it is different in a good way.
HS80m is a power monitor with build-in Amplifier.
NS10M is not and requiried a good amplifer to work with.
With NS10, you need to apply the right amount of "power" from ampllifier to get NS10 sounded right, otherwise, NS10 will be doomed due to a wrong amplifier and apply the wrong amount of power.

On the other hand, with HS80m has nothing to worry about the amplifier setup. Since it's already build-in, Yamaha already did all the pre-set up and pre- adjustment for you. All you need to do is to feed a signal (even from an Iphone).

ALSO NS10 is famous for being very breakable. you have to contantly switch the tweeters everyonce awhile (i broke 3 pairs with in a year). As compared, HS80M is much stronger than that.

The low-end frequency has a huge improvement from HS80M to NS10M. NS10M can never ever play anything around 50Hz like HS80M did.

Oh ya but don't forget, HS80M has 4 switches at the rear for you to adjust the tone.
I prefer to use the Mid boost(this will make HS80m even more like NS10 sounding), and high end roll-off switches (so it will be not as crazy brighten as some mentioned) and leave the bass uncut.

What's the common part of HS80m and NS10?
They are both very sensitive about Disortion and Dessering. They are both very sensitive if the music is over-compressed.
I listen both Limibizkit and Linkinpark on HS80M; they both sounded kinda over-compressed and lack of attack.
The best album that sound good in HS80M is...U2...unbelieveable huh? i guess that has to do with how they did less loudness compression compare to the first 2.

On the other hand, Genelec always "insert" more dynamic range for your music and cause you think u still have a lot of headroom.


However, I am running HS80M, Genelec 1030a and ADAM S2A. And, i always have to scan my final works through each one of them to make sure there is no problem. Simply any set of speakers have cons and pros. I believe as a professional mixing engineer you won't want to put all your egges in one basket. You might have a "favour", but you can't let the favour foolish your rational.
Old 10th September 2009
  #106
Lives for gear
is HS80m = HS50m + SUB?

the answer is no.
However if you guys remember this frequency response; i believe this grahpic answer the question:http://www.moozek.com/postsfiles/hs5...0m-vs-ns10.jpg

As you can see, the HS50M "cutoff" right at 50Hz area while the NS10M is roll-off since 200hz and still have some response around 20hz.

Same as HS80M, it also roll-off like NS10M instead of cut-off; however, HS80M starts to roll-off from 80hz instead of 200 Hz.

Subwolver (also depends whcih sub you get) will give you a huge boost from 40hz to 80hz; so you will ends up have a system that has no "roll-off" and able to be flat all the way from 20hz to 200hz.

But, as i mentioned before, we human can't hear clear below 50hz. Most local speakers can't even play clear enough with anything below 80hz. Yes you can spend hours and days to fix something around 36 hz and ends up nobody recognized it at all.
Many Dance Club's loud speakers cannot handle it well neither. Their Sub is usually confused by the walls and floor reflection.
The best place that will be able shows your good working sub-signal is probabely a professional Dolby, THX, or DTS theater. So if you are working for film industrial, yes i will suggest you get a sub.
Because it does make a big difference in a Dolby theater. however, record company? not so much. Radio? never .
Old 16th April 2012
  #107
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcc449 View Post
I understand what Thse Noize is trying to say.
It's just that TheNoize always do "say it in your face" type of attitude might drives people crazy sometimes.(just like Yamaha speakers)

But i surely understand why he was pissing off.
During whole 90's record industrial; the rival between Yamaha and Genelec was already a huge debate.

Yamaha's NS10 is playing a dark character while Genelec 1031a represent a sunshine character.

A great mix will sound great in Genelec , and a bad mix will still sound great in Genelec; however, a great mix will sound ok in Yamaha, a bad mix will sound hell bad in yamaha.

Is Yamaha NS10 an accurate flat frequency response speakers?
HELL NO. However, neither our ears, and rooms.
Human ears are not flat response, we hardly hear anything clear below 50hz and above 12000hz; and, we hear everything very clearly around 1k to 5K hz.
Ironically, the strength of NS10 is the range where human hearing the strongest: the high mid 1k to 5khz.
This is why we often feel discomfort after listen yamaha for long time. Because what yamaha is focusing exactly the range where we are most sensitive.
On the other side, Genelec has totally opposite approach, they roll-off the 2k-4k slidly to decrease that kind of (IN YOUR FACE TALKING JUST LIKE THE-NONISE). So ya, you will always feel comfortable and happy when you listen to Genelec.

HS80M = NS10?
NO. But it is different in a good way.
HS80m is a power monitor with build-in Amplifier.
NS10M is not and requiried a good amplifer to work with.
With NS10, you need to apply the right amount of "power" from ampllifier to get NS10 sounded right, otherwise, NS10 will be doomed due to a wrong amplifier and apply the wrong amount of power.

On the other hand, with HS80m has nothing to worry about the amplifier setup. Since it's already build-in, Yamaha already did all the pre-set up and pre- adjustment for you. All you need to do is to feed a signal (even from an Iphone).

ALSO NS10 is famous for being very breakable. you have to contantly switch the tweeters everyonce awhile (i broke 3 pairs with in a year). As compared, HS80M is much stronger than that.

The low-end frequency has a huge improvement from HS80M to NS10M. NS10M can never ever play anything around 50Hz like HS80M did.

Oh ya but don't forget, HS80M has 4 switches at the rear for you to adjust the tone.
I prefer to use the Mid boost(this will make HS80m even more like NS10 sounding), and high end roll-off switches (so it will be not as crazy brighten as some mentioned) and leave the bass uncut.

What's the common part of HS80m and NS10?
They are both very sensitive about Disortion and Dessering. They are both very sensitive if the music is over-compressed.
I listen both Limibizkit and Linkinpark on HS80M; they both sounded kinda over-compressed and lack of attack.
The best album that sound good in HS80M is...U2...unbelieveable huh? i guess that has to do with how they did less loudness compression compare to the first 2.

On the other hand, Genelec always "insert" more dynamic range for your music and cause you think u still have a lot of headroom.


However, I am running HS80M, Genelec 1030a and ADAM S2A. And, i always have to scan my final works through each one of them to make sure there is no problem. Simply any set of speakers have cons and pros. I believe as a professional mixing engineer you won't want to put all your egges in one basket. You might have a "favour", but you can't let the favour foolish your rational.
Thanks for very nice explanation. I completely agree with everything what you said because I had all those monitors in the last 20 years.

I also have HS80 and I tried to tune them properly.
Well I have Genelecs S30D next to HS80 and Avantone active in front of me.
The news is that Zenproaudio now modifiys HS-80 that switch off limiter for bass driver on the main board.(MSP-7 don't have that)
And some tips for limiter disabling:
Yamaha HS80 Mod

P.S:
So I disabled the limiter inside of HS80 and that was really noticeable dynamic improvement.


Thanks
All the best
Old 25th April 2012
  #108
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TRANQUILO's Avatar
 

JAMAHA

a few weeks back I conceived for $160 a clean pair of used HS50M...

and today we did a mix of a new rock LP and we loved them very much. They sound nice and honky like the NS10's and remind me of NS10's but in a different kinda way...they are powered so that's nice...and Im always a fan of white cone's.


I beleive if yamaha wanted to re-issue the NS10 they would, but this is the modern twist on an old classic...the little ****ing dip switches in the back enable you to sort of dial in and out the honk! I use my JBL 12" mains for the real deal and these little ****s for the crucial small quiet mixing. However I dont know if I could rely on only the HS50M, My mains give me the clear objective to what's happening in the bass regions

-

Last edited by TRANQUILO; 25th April 2012 at 03:22 AM.. Reason: ****ing sausage fingers
Old 26th April 2012
  #109
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Tube World's Avatar
If you like the HS50's that's fine, but they are not at all like the NS10's. I know people liked the NS10's because they had the mid's pushed out which is where are the important instruments and voices are. It allowed you to hear the mid detail since there was very little bass. Plus the high end was bad and you had to put tissue paper in front of the tweeters. With all those issues, I am still surprised how many want them in their studio. They sound like crap, plain and simple. There are so many better monitors that push the mid's out that sound better than the NS10's. But because studios had them 20 years ago in their studios when there was a more limited about of monitors to choose from, does not mean we should use them now. I like the HS50's a lot better than the NS10's.

Personally I would get the Focal Solo's that push the mid's forward to hear the mid detail. Much better quality amps inside than these budget monitors which helps gives a more accurate presentation of your music. Then have a pair of Genelec which has a more recessed mid character while offering a more depth information on reverb tails. These low end monitors don't represent what your car stereo speakers sound like that has tons of bass and high's. If you want to know how a mix would sound in a car stereo, get JBL's. If you want a better idea of how music sounds with heaphones and your IPod, get the HS50s.
Old 1st April 2013
  #110
Deleted User
Guest
Proper setting

I had HS50, but now I own HS80. They have different mid's.
HS80 -About the settings.
Leave it to the factory settings. Or you can go with Mid+2, (If you worked with NS10M Studio) what I prefer.
All problems was gone when I adjusted input gain to 10 o' clock.
I disabled the internal limiter and they are more clear.
Proper positioning is crucial.
For adjusting the same listening level, K-system is the best solution.

All the best.
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