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DMGAudio eQuality Equalizer Plugins
Old 1st January 2010
  #1
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DMGAudio eQuality

Hi,

Dave (ex Sonalksis/Focusrite/Novation) here.

Sorry for the shameless self-promotion, but I'm building a new EQ!

If you're interested, I've written up an intro here:

DMGAudio Dev Blog

I'd VERY MUCH like to get feedback and input from all of you!!

I'll check this thread, and also comments on the blog

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!

All the best,

Dave.
Old 1st January 2010
  #2
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allstar's Avatar
 

Some good ideas in there Dave, I'll be following along.
Old 1st January 2010
  #3
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of course, it's interesting, since we're all addicts in here
BUT i think it'll be much easier to really talk about it when the beta is ready.
since there's some really good EQ's on the market since a while, it's hard to say "i need (to try) a new EQ" so a new EQ must have some REALLY great features and/or workflow, sound, GUI etc to convince ME.

first impression of what i saw is cool (GUI could need a little more detail IMO). let's see and hear the next step

HNY and good luck dave!
Old 1st January 2010
  #4
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i like visualizing frequencies in BX Digitals EQs since they help to find the critical spots
faster when mixing with a mouse

think every parametric should have these Auto functions
Old 1st January 2010
  #5
Interesting features

I am still looking for a multichannel EQ that has all the features I need. ATM Voxengo Gliss EQ is pretty much the only contender, but if this one had multichannel support, I'd be all over it.
Old 1st January 2010
  #6
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Good ideas, I'll be waiting to demo it. For GUI I suggest making the frame as less noticable as possible and increasing the knobs size with the space gained. Personally I like plug-ins that don't take too much space on screen but still comfortable to be used with a mouse.
Old 1st January 2010
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lllubi View Post
i like visualizing frequencies in BX Digitals EQs since they help to find the critical spots
faster when mixing with a mouse

think every parametric should have these Auto functions
The AutoListen?
I actually asked Dirk at BX if he would mind if I stole that feature...
I'd feel incredibly cheeky doing it..

The BX Autolisten allows you to pick Autolisten on Freq/Gain/Q (or any combination of these); we have band Shift and Filter Order too. Doing the autolisten itself is straightforward.. how should I design the... control.. that allows you to pick WHAT activates autolisten? I'm sure Freq and Q are the most useful controls. Does the control need to be on the front panel, or is Setup ok? Design this and you'll get the feature implemented

Cheers!

Dave.
Old 1st January 2010
  #8
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subsonic808 View Post
Interesting features

I am still looking for a multichannel EQ that has all the features I need. ATM Voxengo Gliss EQ is pretty much the only contender, but if this one had multichannel support, I'd be all over it.
Are you needing something for 5.1? 7.1?
I imagine you probably need some routing/per-channel flexibility...?
Can you give me some insight into what you need?
Right now there's an M/S decoder, and you can pick whether an instance operates on the Stereo image or on Mid,Side,Left,Right. Could easily extend that to being able to operate on C, LsRs, the 5.0 set, the LFE... ?
Tell me more about what you need.. maybe there's a neat way to design this in?

Cheers,

Dave.
Old 1st January 2010
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooker View Post
Good ideas, I'll be waiting to demo it. For GUI I suggest making the frame as less noticable as possible and increasing the knobs size with the space gained. Personally I like plug-ins that don't take too much space on screen but still comfortable to be used with a mouse.
Cheers, I'll pass that on to the designer for you... presuming he doesn't read it himself first

Best,

Dave.
Old 1st January 2010
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGamble View Post
The AutoListen?
I actually asked Dirk at BX if he would mind if I stole that feature...
I'd feel incredibly cheeky doing it..

The BX Autolisten allows you to pick Autolisten on Freq/Gain/Q (or any combination of these); we have band Shift and Filter Order too. Doing the autolisten itself is straightforward.. how should I design the... control.. that allows you to pick WHAT activates autolisten? I'm sure Freq and Q are the most useful controls. Does the control need to be on the front panel, or is Setup ok? Design this and you'll get the feature implemented

Cheers!

Dave.
understand you being cheeky about it
just think life gets easier ITB when an EQ plugin attenuates peaking frequencies automatically and helps visualizing them for easier control with a mouse
Old 1st January 2010
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGamble View Post
Are you needing something for 5.1? 7.1?
I imagine you probably need some routing/per-channel flexibility...?
Can you give me some insight into what you need?
Right now there's an M/S decoder, and you can pick whether an instance operates on the Stereo image or on Mid,Side,Left,Right. Could easily extend that to being able to operate on C, LsRs, the 5.0 set, the LFE... ?
Tell me more about what you need.. maybe there's a neat way to design this in?

Cheers,

Dave.
I am really glad that this seems to be of interest to you. thumbsup

I would need the ability to group certain channels within a multichannel setup and process other channels individually. For example, in a 5.1 channel I might want to treat L/R and Ls/Rs as stereo pairs while EQing the C and LFE channels individually. Sometimes I might want to group L/C/R or L/R/Ls/Rs. It would be awesome if stereo groups could also be set up for M/S processing.

In any x.1 surround format the LFE always needs to be treated differently than all other channels and in most cases you need at least three different EQ groups. If all channels that need the same EQ curve could be controlled by one set of knobs and there is total flexibility in terms of routing and grouping all within a single instance of the plugin, you would have the ultimate surround EQ. With these features eQuality will definitely become THE go-to EQ in surround post-production and music mixing!

You should check out the Voxengo plugs - they are a pretty good example for a very flexible multichannel implementation. Flux Epure also does this, but I am not sure how well, since the demo only allows stereo operation
Old 2nd January 2010
  #12
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If doing a surround version, just make big pass-through buttons for the channels that won't need any processing. If you then want to EQ channels differently just put a new instance in another insert slot of your DAW to process the other channels. Keeps it simple.
Old 2nd January 2010
  #13
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by lllubi View Post
understand you being cheeky about it
just think life gets easier ITB when an EQ plugin attenuates peaking frequencies automatically and helps visualizing them for easier control with a mouse
Well, when I asked Dirk, he said he didn't mind.
I've implemented something much simpler than the BX one; when you flip it on, adjusting band/shelf freq/q puts you in bandpass/filter mode for the channel, so you can hear what you're adjusting Seems to work fairly well... I'll keep you posted on feedback from beta!

Dave.
Old 2nd January 2010
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg View Post
If doing a surround version, just make big pass-through buttons for the channels that won't need any processing. If you then want to EQ channels differently just put a new instance in another insert slot of your DAW to process the other channels. Keeps it simple.
stike tutt

Nooooooo, that will not suffice at all. That would be like saying "Only do a mono version. If you need stereo, just use another instance". The last thing I want to do in a 150+ channel surround mix is waste 3 or more insert slots for EQing on every multichannel track. That would be a total waste of time. Plus, I have never heard anyone complain about the routing capabilities in Voxengo or Flux plugins - if you don't need it, don't touch it.
Old 3rd January 2010
  #15
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subsonic808 View Post
stike tutt

Nooooooo, that will not suffice at all. That would be like saying "Only do a mono version. If you need stereo, just use another instance". The last thing I want to do in a 150+ channel surround mix is waste 3 or more insert slots for EQing on every multichannel track. That would be a total waste of time. Plus, I have never heard anyone complain about the routing capabilities in Voxengo or Flux plugins - if you don't need it, don't touch it.
I hear what you're saying. Please don't be annoyed, but the first version of eQuality is very likely to be a stereo plugin. It shipped to beta this evening (yay!)...

The reason I say "very likely" is because my focus right now is on getting V1.0 out the door and into peoples hands.

At the same time, I have some post guys who do multichannel work in the beta group. +IF+ we can find an elegant way of configuring and controlling multichannel operation, I'll put it in for version 1; the DSP is actually ready for it, it's a UI/workflow issue.

However, I'd be lying if I said that top priority *right now* was anything other than making sure it sounds great, works great, looks great, and generally is great

By February, however, I can see this rising up the list of priorities
Feel free to gather people to lobby for the features... and if anyone can think of a slick, efficient way of controlling it; LET ME KNOW ASAP!

Cheers,

Dave.
Old 3rd January 2010
  #16
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Dom & Roland's Avatar
Oi Dave!
Old 3rd January 2010
  #17
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Geert van den Berg's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Subsonic808 View Post
stike tutt

Nooooooo, that will not suffice at all. That would be like saying "Only do a mono version. If you need stereo, just use another instance". The last thing I want to do in a 150+ channel surround mix is waste 3 or more insert slots for EQing on every multichannel track. That would be a total waste of time. Plus, I have never heard anyone complain about the routing capabilities in Voxengo or Flux plugins - if you don't need it, don't touch it.
I think you picture it more complicated as it should be.

Yes the way I propose you'd need to run 4 instances after each other to process all the channels in a 5.1 config, but you also have the added flexibillity of having the plugin window on the centre channel to be open along with the EQ which is on the L-R ch. and the surrounds.

What you don't get when you make the plugin like this is, that you have to setup extra sub-busses to process just to process the centre channel. The plugin should be a 5.1 plugin which processes 1 or more channels, the channels you don't want to process are passed through to the next instance, on which you'll pass-through the channel processed in the first instance. (I assume that the channels that passed-through don't require much processing power, just a time alignment with the processed sound)

Anyway, that's just how I see this, but maybe it is more elegant to do this all within one plugin, but it would either mean the plugin interface will get very large or you'll have different pages on which you can see the different settings of each channel which I find more annoying. (this is basically the same as what you can do with a multi-mono plugin in Pro Tools on a 5.1 buss)

Usually the source tracks in a 5.1 mix are mono anyway, on the busses it's different but that's post-panning.
Old 3rd January 2010
  #18
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Alxi's Avatar
 

Interesting

-Alxi
Old 3rd January 2010
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGamble View Post
I hear what you're saying. Please don't be annoyed, but the first version of eQuality is very likely to be a stereo plugin. It shipped to beta this evening (yay!)...

The reason I say "very likely" is because my focus right now is on getting V1.0 out the door and into peoples hands.

At the same time, I have some post guys who do multichannel work in the beta group. +IF+ we can find an elegant way of configuring and controlling multichannel operation, I'll put it in for version 1; the DSP is actually ready for it, it's a UI/workflow issue.

However, I'd be lying if I said that top priority *right now* was anything other than making sure it sounds great, works great, looks great, and generally is great

By February, however, I can see this rising up the list of priorities
Feel free to gather people to lobby for the features... and if anyone can think of a slick, efficient way of controlling it; LET ME KNOW ASAP!

Cheers,

Dave.
Dave, that is fine with me, I can wait for a little while. However, I very much appreciate your consideration
Is there any chance of joining the beta test group when a multichannel is ready for testing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg
I think you picture it more complicated as it should be.

Yes the way I propose you'd need to run 4 instances after each other to process all the channels in a 5.1 config, but you also have the added flexibillity of having the plugin window on the centre channel to be open along with the EQ which is on the L-R ch. and the surrounds.

What you don't get when you make the plugin like this is, that you have to setup extra sub-busses to process just to process the centre channel. The plugin should be a 5.1 plugin which processes 1 or more channels, the channels you don't want to process are passed through to the next instance, on which you'll pass-through the channel processed in the first instance. (I assume that the channels that passed-through don't require much processing power, just a time alignment with the processed sound)

Anyway, that's just how I see this, but maybe it is more elegant to do this all within one plugin, but it would either mean the plugin interface will get very large or you'll have different pages on which you can see the different settings of each channel which I find more annoying. (this is basically the same as what you can do with a multi-mono plugin in Pro Tools on a 5.1 buss)

Usually the source tracks in a 5.1 mix are mono anyway, on the busses it's different but that's post-panning.
I guess we have different ways of working. I don't intend to say that your approach is wrong, I have done this before as well. it is just that I would like to have something more convenient because your way of working has cost me too much time in many situations in the past. I often have to deal with multichannel atmos and surround predubs when mixing, so I need to open a lot of EQ plugin instances to achieve what I want to do. This starts to get confusing rather quickly.
My suggestion would be tabs on the plugin GUI to switch between the different groups, plus a routing table to select what channel goes to which group. To keep things tidy the max number of groups could be limited to 4 or maybe 5. You could always still open multiple instances of the plug and never leave the first tab in the GUI if you wanted to. However, if I don't have the option to treat different channels individually within one instance of the plug it would not be what I am looking for in terms of workflow and flexibility. As I mentioned already, I think that Voxengo has a pretty good system of dealing with multiple channels and groups.
Furthermore, if you have all your settings in one instance you can easily save it as a preset for later recall. Track presets only allow this functionality as long as there are no other plugs inserted already and not all hosts support them.

Cheers,

Chris
Old 3rd January 2010
  #20
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom & Roland View Post
Oi Dave!
Check your email. We went into beta last night.
Old 3rd January 2010
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subsonic808 View Post
I guess we have different ways of working. I don't intend to say that your approach is wrong, I have done this before as well. it is just that I would like to have something more convenient because your way of working has cost me too much time in many situations in the past. I often have to deal with multichannel atmos and surround predubs when mixing, so I need to open a lot of EQ plugin instances to achieve what I want to do. This starts to get confusing rather quickly.
I don't say you're wrong either, but I just like to keep things simple, maybe having all the channels in one plugin is more elegant, it could be.

But these are the things that I am thinking about that made me think having more instances would be easier:

I dislike having a lot of parameters in one plugin because when adjusting from a controller you'd have a lot of parameters to page thru. (my controller can show 16 at once). And this EQ already has a lot of bands, which means a lot of parameters.

Also I am not sure if Logic and Pro Tools would remember the tab that was selected when last opened, I just tried with Nuendo and this seems to remember it which is cool (tried it with CSR reverb in advanced mode). But then again I only see a mention of VST and AU, so for PT that wouldn't matter anyway. I also tried Logic, it doesn't remember the last openend tab. This means you'd have to select the tab after opening the plugin, while the way I propose I just open the insert which I know processes the surrounds (for example insert 3, 1 is C, 2 is L-R, 3 is Ls-Rs).

Which DAW are you using?
Old 3rd January 2010
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGamble View Post
Check your email. We went into beta last night.
Hola amigo,

Where's my login?



xxx

/Felix (Also ex. Sonalksis, been working lots with wonderful lovely Dave!)
Old 3rd January 2010
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg View Post
I don't say you're wrong either, but I just like to keep things simple, maybe having all the channels in one plugin is more elegant, it could be.

But these are the things that I am thinking about that made me think having more instances would be easier:

I dislike having a lot of parameters in one plugin because when adjusting from a controller you'd have a lot of parameters to page thru. (my controller can show 16 at once). And this EQ already has a lot of bands, which means a lot of parameters.

Also I am not sure if Logic and Pro Tools would remember the tab that was selected when last opened, I just tried with Nuendo and this seems to remember it which is cool (tried it with CSR reverb in advanced mode). But then again I only see a mention of VST and AU, so for PT that wouldn't matter anyway. I also tried Logic, it doesn't remember the last openend tab. This means you'd have to select the tab after opening the plugin, while the way I propose I just open the insert which I know processes the surrounds (for example insert 3, 1 is C, 2 is L-R, 3 is Ls-Rs).

Which DAW are you using?
I am on Nuendo 4 on Mac.

When EQing different channels of a surround signal, you will end up with loads of parameters no matter what. With your approach you will just spread them across different inserts, so instead of flipping through parameter pages on the controller you will have to go through all the insert slots. I don't know if it will make that much of a difference. Well, I guess it really depends on the controller and the host you are using. What is your main setup?

I believe that with some careful planning the plugin could be designed with all parameters included, but with the option to hide them if you have no use for them. At the moment I am on a quest to find the perfect EQ for my needs. When I saw the feature list for eQuality, I instantly thought that this would be the one, if it only had true surround routing capabilities...
Old 3rd January 2010
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subsonic808 View Post
I am on Nuendo 4 on Mac.

When EQing different channels of a surround signal, you will end up with loads of parameters no matter what. With your approach you will just spread them across different inserts, so instead of flipping through parameter pages on the controller you will have to go through all the insert slots. I don't know if it will make that much of a difference. Well, I guess it really depends on the controller and the host you are using. What is your main setup?

I believe that with some careful planning the plugin could be designed with all parameters included, but with the option to hide them if you have no use for them. At the moment I am on a quest to find the perfect EQ for my needs. When I saw the feature list for eQuality, I instantly thought that this would be the one, if it only had true surround routing capabilities...

Pro Tools for Media: Flux Epure II EQ plug-in review




Cheers,
/Felix
Old 3rd January 2010
  #25
Epure is definitely on my list. I kinda forgot about it because the VST demo version has a 2 channel limitation and I could not test the multichannel behavior properly, yet.
Old 3rd January 2010
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subsonic808 View Post
Epure is definitely on my list. I kinda forgot about it because the VST demo version has a 2 channel limitation and I could not test the multichannel behavior properly, yet.
Contact support, send us your iLok account id and we'll hook you up with a fully working demo.

Sorry for goin OT Dave!!


Cheers,
/Felix
Old 4th January 2010
  #27
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix (Flux) View Post
Hola amigo,

Where's my login?



xxx

/Felix (Also ex. Sonalksis, been working lots with wonderful lovely Dave!)
You sure you're not going to steal all my ideas? :P

I'll look for you on Skype.

Dave.
Old 4th January 2010
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGamble View Post
You sure you're not going to steal all my ideas? :P

I'll look for you on Skype.

Dave.
heh nah no worries buddy, we have plentyful todo for quite a while here...

;P

See ya on Skype.

Cheers,
/Felix
Old 20th March 2010
  #29
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Old 20th March 2010
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGamble View Post
EQuality arrives!

DMG Audio

Enjoy!

Dave.
£74.99
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