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Klein + Hummel is no more.
Old 17th November 2009
  #1
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Klein + Hummel is no more.

Sennheiser löst Klein + Hummel auf / Wedemark / Im Norden / Aus der Region / Hannover / HAZ - Hannoversche Allgemeine

Sennheiser is closing down K+H, most employes will be kept. In the future their Studio Monitors will be released under the Neumann brand.
Old 17th November 2009
  #2
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!!!...?
Old 17th November 2009
  #3
what a dumb move.
"the market" associated Neumann with microphones, and K&H as monitor speakers. Why would you wreck a perfectly fine operation? They say they don't of course, but it'll be part of somehing bigger. Smells like Studer. Oh well... not my problem.
Old 17th November 2009
  #4
GnS
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Pheeew.... THIS is really hard.... Some pieces that Volker Bartels says, seems to be very narrow minded:

"K+H couldn't fullfill our expectiations in the other foreign countrys". This is why they want to put the Neumann Label on their (excellent) Monitor speakers. What kinda shit is this?? They got a esteemed mic brand and think that all people think: "When they can built excellent microphones the monitor speakers must be the same way". How dumb they think their customes are? Putting the speakers on the Neumann brand just dilutes the brand. They are yellow cos they will loose their core business in a few months when the UHF band for wireless microphones will be sold to the mobile carrier industrie. Until now the reserve band for wireless microphones is not announced so the future is uncertain...
Old 17th November 2009
  #5
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Me, I couldn't care less about nomenclature and branding.

Neumann, if you're listening --- and I imagine you are --- please reintroduce the K+H O300 with a stronger amplifier. It is literally the perfect monitor to my ears... it just gives out too early.

Either that or lower the price. But I hope you go with the former option. I'd even pay a little more for a stronger amp. The K+H O300 is one of my favorite products in the world, it just has one small flaw.

Many of my producer friends have almost bought a set but changed their minds because of this issue.

- c
Old 17th November 2009
  #6
Quote:
please reintroduce the K+H O300 with a stronger amplifier
You mean the N 0300?

Any why Neumann branding? Why not Sennheiser who already make headphones? It would seem more appropriate.
Old 17th November 2009
  #7
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I love my 0300's ... my perfect product. Period.

But I have never understood the under powered bit - I have my mix rig set up to the K14 monitor std via an Avocet so that's 83dB at my ears on loud sections.

I can mix like this for hours on end with no fatigue and little freq. shift.

SS why do you need more volume?

Best
TMY
Old 17th November 2009
  #8
Gear Nut
 

who cares

all that changes is the branding. sennheiser has been owning both brands for years, so the product won't suffer in terms of quality. i will stay loyal to the brand as my O110's are pure audio joy and translate perfectly.
Old 17th November 2009
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMarqueeYears View Post
I love my 0300's ... my perfect product. Period.

But I have never understood the under powered bit - I have my mix rig set up to the K14 monitor std via an Avocet so that's 83dB at my ears on loud sections.

I can mix like this for hours on end with no fatigue and little freq. shift.

SS why do you need more volume?

Best
TMY
There are others who agree with you (there's a classical recording guy Plush who gets irked everytime I raise this issue) and if it works for you, that's totally cool. As I said, I LOVE THEM. Tonally, they're my favorite model that I've ever heard.

But I feel them compressing as they approach higher levels and this is a bummer for speakers this expensive. I don't spend a lot of time at high volumes (in fact quite the opposite, as indicated by this thread) but I think that, as a simple proposition of value-for-money, the K+H's should crank to any volume you'd want to play them.

If they were less expensive, I'd be fine with them as they are.

I have a famous producer friend (who I won't name 'cause I don't want to get in trouble) who has thought about pairing up with K+H to produce a special signature version that would address this problem.

- c
Old 17th November 2009
  #10
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Agreed entirely about the O300s. Best nearfields I've ever heard. Cost makes them rather prohibitive here in Oz unfortunately, which is why I opted for the Opals in the end.

I really don't grasp the finer points of the situation since I don't read German, but the situation sounds odd to say the least. KH never did well here because the distributors never gave them a chance. I don't think it has so much to do with the name, but then again people will be people, and if they associate Neumann with O300s, they may be inclined to entertain the $6,000 price tag.
Old 17th November 2009
  #11
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I think as long as all they're changing is the name it's probably a good idea. The K+H name doesn't have much penetration with the studio going public (at least in the US), while Neumann has great bling value..

"Wow, you have a Neumann U87 and the new Neumann U300's!!"

It is what it is.
Old 17th November 2009
  #12
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What does U mean in german engineering.

U87, U47, U300's

U-Boats (millitary subs)

Does the U just mean "under water" is there a connection here between
U47 and U-boat?

Just got me thinking, thats all.

TMY
Old 18th November 2009
  #13
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wiglad's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMarqueeYears View Post
What does U mean in german engineering.

U87, U47, U300's

U-Boats (millitary subs)

Does the U just mean "under water" is there a connection here between
U47 and U-boat?

Just got me thinking, thats all.

TMY
Short for uber?
Old 18th November 2009
  #14
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Llitsor's Avatar
 

Its not like it's "The End" which perhaps the subject implies. Its just rebranding. Thats it.
The products are the same at the end of the day. It wouldn't bother me one iota.
Old 18th November 2009
  #15
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warhead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya View Post
... it just gives out too early.
It's not a limiter kicking in too early?

This is what I find to be the case with most near fields, trying to keep repairs to a minimum I suppose.

For realzies.

War
Old 18th November 2009
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warhead View Post
It's not a limiter kicking in too early?

This is what I find to be the case with most near fields, trying to keep repairs to a minimum I suppose.

For realzies.

War
May very well be a protective limiter.

To me, the monitors are otherwise perfect.

- c
Old 18th November 2009
  #17
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AFAIK It is a limiter. I've heard that their lack of headroom is proportional to the rather large EQ boost they run on the low-end. As such, some users claim that you get a fair amount of headroom back if you actually pair them with the sub - taking some of the strain off.

Even with the level limitation, they are still ideal to me. I don't have a need to ever go that loud with my nearfields. The Opals on the other hand have absurd power, of which I've used a mere fraction, and the rest has gone toward their immaculate transient reproduction.
Old 18th November 2009
  #18
Gear Addict
 

I've been mixing on my 300d's since last August roughly...I listen fairly low (like in the 72-76dB range when I've metered it), so I've never 'blinked the lights' as it were during mixing but I could understand where people would take issue with the overall SPL output of the speakers. However, what you might lack in output/limiter kick-in, you totally gain back in overall frequency linearity at different volumes.

I would probably not be alone in saying that these are among the most accurate studio loudspeakers to date (I don't think they have quite the brutality of the ATC's, but the amount of what these allow you to hear is glorious), and I'm definitely bummed to hear the news because there's really no certainty to what Sennheiser will do here.

here's to hoping that the speakers stay intact and they just change the little light-up logo on the front, and they still support the current speakers...

-Jeremy
Old 18th November 2009
  #19
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i used to have a pair. u cant listen louder than 85dB on it or else it would limit the sound.

Everything sounds 'glued' using the speakers, but in the real world, it lets dynamic jump out a bit more than how u hear it on the speakers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya View Post
Me, I couldn't care less about nomenclature and branding.

Neumann, if you're listening --- and I imagine you are --- please reintroduce the K+H O300 with a stronger amplifier. It is literally the perfect monitor to my ears... it just gives out too early.

Either that or lower the price. But I hope you go with the former option. I'd even pay a little more for a stronger amp. The K+H O300 is one of my favorite products in the world, it just has one small flaw.

Many of my producer friends have almost bought a set but changed their minds because of this issue.

- c
Old 18th November 2009
  #20
Gear Nut
 

hmm what's the bet neumann = price hike
Old 18th November 2009
  #21
Gear Head
 

K & H

I have a UE 400 EQ..... ****ing Max gain with no distortion.... Das is Goot!
Long live Klein and Hummel...... fond memories!
Old 18th November 2009
  #22
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Volodia's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil View Post
what a dumb move.
"the market" associated Neumann with microphones, and K&H as monitor speakers.
To me , as an owner of an old K&H UE 400 (EQ) , they were more an EQ company . Things can change fast .
Old 18th November 2009
  #23
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Silver Sonya's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mimp View Post
hmm what's the bet neumann = price hike
It's 2009. There's no way. Nowhere in the world does the economy suggest "time to raise your prices!"

- c
Old 18th November 2009
  #24
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Whats pissing me of is that <10 K+H employees get layed off at the end of the year. Sennheiser wants to cut costs down more and more. The products will live on there's no question about that. Sennheiser as a company isnt any better than the other big ones lusting after money. First the production got moved from germany to irland, now this. I'm a O300 user and just recently bought a Sennheiser HD800. Probably sell these and get a Beyerdynamic T1 instead. No more money from me to Sennheiser.

PS: When Sennheiser took over the prices were also increased here in germany. I dont remember the amount exactly but it was quite a bit, you could get the O300D for the same money as the O300(non D) now.
Old 18th November 2009
  #25
Gear Head
 

This undercuts the resale value of existing K&H product and as such is a betrayal of their existing customer base, who are (were?) no doubt pretty hard core and loyal. Dumb move also to compromise the integrity of the Neumann brand, which is as near a perfect "legend" in the audio business as could be. Now it's just a "me too" we-do-everything kinda brand. K&H's have a stellar reputatiion actually, but are regarded as just too much money - they should have looked at ways to lower prices by 10 or 15 percent, and engaged in a bit more creative marketing. I myself would have bought O300's, but it was just too big a stretch.
Old 18th November 2009
  #26
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I' sorry for the employees and also for the brand!

I love my Klein&Hummel O300 and i'm not sure if these monitors will become more successful under the "Neumann"-brand..
Old 18th November 2009
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya View Post
It's 2009. There's no way. Nowhere in the world does the economy suggest "time to raise your prices!"

- c
I suspect neumann speakers will be boutique stuff (like some speakers in the hi-fi world).
Old 18th November 2009
  #28
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Silver Sonya's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cleartrueblue View Post
This undercuts the resale value of existing K&H product...
Really? Seems the opposite to me.

- c
Old 19th November 2009
  #29
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya View Post
Really? Seems the opposite to me.

- c

i know i will never sell mine. good speakers never go out of fashion.
Old 19th November 2009
  #30
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I was astonished when I read that such a reputated company like K + H only has 16 employees. It is a pity.

On the other hand if you read magazines and reviews then the 110 model was nearly always beaten by other brands, deserved or not. So I guess in that market segment they did not succeed too good and one such a move can break the neck of a small company.
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