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SPL Vitalizer MK2-t plugin!! Dynamics Plugins
Old 10th December 2009
  #241
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Jantex's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by javahut View Post
By the way... if you want a better sounding version of what TwinTube does (minus the harmonics control)... it's called Wave Arts Tube Saturator. thumbsup
And there are many people like me who agree with this statement
Old 10th December 2009
  #242
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Drew Buchan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by javahut View Post
I would not use TwinTube on the master bus. It doesn't have much "openness" in the top end. Use it on individual tracks or buses. Don't know about Fatso, but I would think you wouldn't want that on the master bus either, but more on individual tracks or buses.

......
By the way... if you want a better sounding version of what TwinTube does (minus the harmonics control)... it's called Wave Arts Tube Saturator. thumbsup

Hope this helps some.

Wow !! Thank you so much taking the time to write all that advice. I really appreciate it.
I have not thought of using the brickwall limiter twice.

Thanks
Old 10th December 2009
  #243
Gear Nut
 

Nice to see the MK2-t getting some attention here. A few years back I was producing an artist on an acoustic project and he ran out of money; this was after we had tracked to tape and mixed through the console and into the computer for some final editing. After the project sat for months I decided to finish it for him. Lack of money calls for creative solutions at times – I went to SPL-USA and borrowed a new Vitalizer MK2-t (thanks Marty!) and we did the mastering, coming out of the computer into the Vitalizer, then into a Kultube compressor barely moving the VU needle with some gentle Buzz SOC compression inserted in the sidechain. The only recognition I’ve ever received was for sound on that recording, and it brought me my next major project. I bought that particular unit and have used it ever since, during mixing and on the occasional muddy bass and back-up vocals. Great tool.
Old 10th December 2009
  #244
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bleak orange's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by narapo View Post
Yep, I did, the Vitalizer works perfectly with Sonar 8.5 PE ; maybe you've got too many plugins, Sonar by default cannot displays all of your plugins if they are too many. Look in the Cakewalk plugin manager if it shows ; then you can create a custom menu showing only plugins you "really" use

Well, I sure got too many plugins !
But the Vitalizer does not show in the plug in manager either...

Did you install the VST 2.4 or 3 version ?
Old 10th December 2009
  #245
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b0ssa's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by javahut View Post
I would not use TwinTube on the master bus. It doesn't have much "openness" in the top end. Use it on individual tracks or buses. Don't know about Fatso, but I would think you wouldn't want that on the master bus either, but more on individual tracks or buses.

First... just stick the MD3 on the master bus by itself... doesn't matter which setting you use. I just use the default setting. Mix into this. You will get different results for different settings of MD3. But once you've started mixing with the settings, stick to 'em for the most part. Get the mix as close as you can with nothing else on the master bus. Don't think about any loudness aspects. Just make sure you try to be somewhere between -6 to -3 db with your mix (use a level meter) before the MD3 input.

Once the mix is as close as you can get it with only the MD3, if you wanna "master" while your mix bounces down, do the following.

Get the level on the master bus to about -3db peak with no processing (as above). Insert an instance of TC's Brickwall Limiter first, before the MD3... just to knock down those couple of 1-2db peaks that are above everything else that always seem to occur on an unprocessed mix bus, and to transparently adjust gain so that your peak into MD3 is around -3db.

Run that into MD3 with makeup gain on MD3 off. Then into Vitalizer and adjust to taste (don't over cook it). This may cause a little increase in gain, but shouldn't be a problem because gain is already down before that because of MD3's compression with no makeup gain. Then into another instance of TC Brickwall Limiter, using it's gain to get the peak back up near zero. Then increase the Brickwall gain again however many db over that to provide the amount of loudness level you want for the final master. I'd get a copy of the Dynamic Range Meter and run a copy of your final mix through the offline version. Hopefully you can keep the DR of your track somewhere between 10-12 db (or more) and have it still be loud enough for you. If it's not, there's probably an EQ problem with your mix.

Use a good level meter temporarily between each process to make sure you're getting the levels right before the next process. Don't hesitate to temporarily stick it back in between the processes if you make any mix adjustments, just to make sure you keep the levels good. Even a slight EQ change somewhere on an individual track in the mix could throw the level out of whack.

By the way... if you want a better sounding version of what TwinTube does (minus the harmonics control)... it's called Wave Arts Tube Saturator. thumbsup

Hope this helps some.


I just tried this suggestion and buckled. I bought the VM2 and it's all you fault ;P

EDIT: One suggestion though; Turn OFF the limiter in the MD3.
Old 11th December 2009
  #246
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javahut's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0ssa View Post
I just tried this suggestion and buckled. I bought the VM2 and it's all you fault ;P

EDIT: One suggestion though; Turn OFF the limiter in the MD3.
Yep, you're right. Especially don't need it in the MD3 if you turn make-up gain off... and the BW Limiter is at the end of the chain. thumbsup
Old 11th December 2009
  #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javahut View Post
Yep, you're right. Especially don't need it in the MD3 if you turn make-up gain off... and the BW Limiter is at the end of the chain. thumbsup
By Make-up gain you're referring to the Auto Gain on the MD3 main page, right?

And when you talk about gain on the BWL, I am assuming you're talking about Gain L & Gain R on the main page and not just the output level in the SETUP section?
Old 11th December 2009
  #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b0ssa View Post
By Make-up gain you're referring to the Auto Gain on the MD3 main page, right?

And when you talk about gain on the BWL, I am assuming you're talking about Gain L & Gain R on the main page and not just the output level in the SETUP section?
Yes, it is called Auto Gain rather than make-up gain in MD3.

And also yes, Gain on the Main page in BWL. However, I keep the stereo Link engaged, so it only displays a single Gain control for both L & R.

Old 16th December 2009
  #249
Gear Addict
 

This is a must-buy in my opinion...on some mixes it makes miracles to the low-end especially if you don't wanna spend money...do not try the demo...
Old 17th December 2009
  #250
FBM
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FBM's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Hone View Post
Nice to see the MK2-t getting some attention here. A few years back I was producing an artist on an acoustic project and he ran out of money; this was after we had tracked to tape and mixed through the console and into the computer for some final editing. After the project sat for months I decided to finish it for him. Lack of money calls for creative solutions at times – I went to SPL-USA and borrowed a new Vitalizer MK2-t (thanks Marty!) and we did the mastering, coming out of the computer into the Vitalizer, then into a Kultube compressor barely moving the VU needle with some gentle Buzz SOC compression inserted in the sidechain. The only recognition I’ve ever received was for sound on that recording, and it brought me my next major project. I bought that particular unit and have used it ever since, during mixing and on the occasional muddy bass and back-up vocals. Great tool.
It's a pity they didn't borrow you the manual as well, because when you put the Vitalizer first and the compressor next you get sound artifacts. Best is to compress first then Vitalize and then limit.
Old 17th December 2009
  #251
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Silver Sonya's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FBM View Post
It's a pity they didn't borrow you the manual as well, because when you put the Vitalizer first and the compressor next you get sound artifacts. Best is to compress first then Vitalize and then limit.
The "sound artifacts" might be a desirable result for some people or some circumstances. This is all subjective, there are no rules.

- c
Old 17th December 2009
  #252
FBM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya View Post
The "sound artifacts" might be a desirable result for some people or some circumstances. This is all subjective, there are no rules.

- c
When you make a master?! The hardware version start sounding very bad with compression after, believe me it's not desirable in some circumstances! Of course there are some rules, for example how the Vitalizer works you can find it in the manual. There are no rules is nice when you know for a 100% what you are doing.
Old 17th December 2009
  #253
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matt thomas's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by FBM View Post
When you make a master?! The hardware version start sounding very bad with compression after, believe me it's not desirable in some circumstances! Of course there are some rules, for example how the Vitalizer works you can find it in the manual. There are no rules is nice when you know for a 100% what you are doing.
If it sounds that bad with compression afterwards then I suppose you think this should not be put on the master bus in mixing (as people like Greg Wells are saying above), as this will typically be followed by compression in mastering. (?)

matt
Old 18th December 2009
  #254
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Silver Sonya's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FBM View Post
When you make a master?! The hardware version start sounding very bad with compression after, believe me it's not desirable in some circumstances! Of course there are some rules, for example how the Vitalizer works you can find it in the manual. There are no rules is nice when you know for a 100% what you are doing.
This is ignorant.

You can use the device any way you want. Many people put it on the mix before it gets sent to mastering.

Again: There are no rules.

- c
Old 18th December 2009
  #255
Deleted bd1be4f
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya View Post
This is ignorant.

You can use the device any way you want. Many people put it on the mix before it gets sent to mastering.

Again: There are no rules.

- c
Yep. If it sounds good, it IS good. End of story.
Old 18th December 2009
  #256
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Suda Badri's Avatar
 

RIP Joe Meek...
Old 18th December 2009
  #257
FBM
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FBM's Avatar
 

When there are no rules like you all say. Whats the problem then of putting the compressor first after the master chain?! When it makes the unit work better!?

This is from the manual:
If you want to use a compressor in the master chain after the
console, use your Stereo Vitalizer MK2-T after the compressor.The
Stereo Vitalizer MK2-T will receive a level-corrected signal which
helps to operate even more precise. If you use the Stereo Vitalizer
MK2-T before the compressor negative side-effects such as
pumping could get more audible.


I use the Vitalizer for 6 years now for Dance Music and I can tell you if I want pumping it's not the pumping from the wrong placed compressor I want to hear, because it doesn't sound good. And it's not only pumping the compressor after amplifies the highs so it's sound like @#$. There is a bass compressor inside!

This is how I use it : EQ( only cuts), Compression, Vitalizer, Limiter.
You have to realize that the Vitalizer already has a Bass Compressor inside.

I think that lots of people would put the compressor after the Vitalizer, because it sounds more logic, but after studying the manual and really understanding how the unit works you also understand why SPL advices the other way around.
So when somebody like me is posting some good advice use it instead of pretending that you already know how the Vitalizer works and that it was a creative move to put the compressor in the wrong place of the chain, because I'm sure most of you didn't know this.
Old 18th December 2009
  #258
Deleted bd1be4f
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by FBM View Post
When there are no rules like you all say. Whats the problem then of putting the compressor first after the master chain?! When it makes the unit work better!?

This is from the manual:
If you want to use a compressor in the master chain after the
console, use your Stereo Vitalizer MK2-T after the compressor.The
Stereo Vitalizer MK2-T will receive a level-corrected signal which
helps to operate even more precise. If you use the Stereo Vitalizer
MK2-T before the compressor negative side-effects such as
pumping could get more audible.


I use the Vitalizer for 6 years now for Dance Music and I can tell you if I want pumping it's not the pumping from the wrong placed compressor I want to hear, because it doesn't sound good. And it's not only pumping the compressor after amplifies the highs so it's sound like @#$. There is a bass compressor inside!

This is how I use it : EQ( only cuts), Compression, Vitalizer, Limiter.
You have to realize that the Vitalizer already has a Bass Compressor inside.

I think that lots of people would put the compressor after the Vitalizer, because it sounds more logic, but after studying the manual and really understanding how the unit works you also understand why SPL advices the other way around.
So when somebody like me is posting some good advice use it instead of pretending that you already know how the Vitalizer works and that it was a creative move to put the compressor in the wrong place of the chain, because I'm sure most of you didn't know this.
Again, if you found a way that works for you, great. Just stop pretending that it's the ONLY way it can work. Some of the best sounds and results on records have come from experimenting and using things "wrong" or against the way the "manual" says you should.

So thanks for the advice, but again, the only rule people should live by is that if it sounds good, it IS good, no matter what any manual says.
Old 18th December 2009
  #259
then again I hardly believe anyone would change anything if they found a good sounding chain, just because it isnt advised to be used that way in the manual :P

The manual is there for a guidance towards what might sound good. I think everyone experiments...
Old 18th December 2009
  #260
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Silver Sonya's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fragletrollet View Post
The manual is there for a guidance towards what might sound good. I think everyone experiments...
Well, people who have brains do.

- c
Old 18th December 2009
  #261
Whoo - didn't have your coffee yet?
Old 18th December 2009
  #262
FBM
Gear Addict
 
FBM's Avatar
 

Quote:Originally Posted by Joe Hone
Nice to see the MK2-t getting some attention here. A few years back I was producing an artist on an acoustic project and he ran out of money; this was after we had tracked to tape and mixed through the console and into the computer for some final editing. After the project sat for months I decided to finish it for him. Lack of money calls for creative solutions at times – I went to SPL-USA and borrowed a new Vitalizer MK2-t (thanks Marty!) and we did the mastering, coming out of the computer into the Vitalizer, then into a Kultube compressor barely moving the VU needle with some gentle Buzz SOC compression inserted in the sidechain. The only recognition I’ve ever received was for sound on that recording, and it brought me my next major project. I bought that particular unit and have used it ever since, during mixing and on the occasional muddy bass and back-up vocals. Great tool.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Did it ever occur to you that he maybe didn't remember the exact order of the chain or made a mistake while writing this down. And then suddenly some people know that it was a creative move and no error!? I have the hardware version and the soft-ware and I can tell you that I know exactly how the unit works. And I'm just correcting the way to use the Vitalizer and get the best results.

If you don't want to believe the way it works is written in the manual, because of some technical facts do what ever you feel happy with, but the reason it's in the manual is because you really get Artifacts and they screw-up your mix.

And then you get those negative post saying that nothing good comes out of the Vitalizer no matter what they put true it. (some of the post)

So of course there are no rules. But there are better and worse ways to work with the Vitalizer and other devices in a studio.

Try it for your self !
Old 19th December 2009
  #263
Registered User
 

Nothing is perfect in the wrong hands...
Old 19th December 2009
  #264
Gear Addict
 

I have demo'ed this plugin for a couple of days, and I lean towards not buying it.

Whatever I do with it there is little improvement. Maybe some of the treble gets better, but the bass always get worse no matter how I turn the knobs. Anyway I find I only add minimal effect. values around 2 or so. More than that makes it sound bad, and as it is the difference is very small.
Old 19th December 2009
  #265
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Kyle Ashley's Avatar
 

I did buy this. I find it works amazing on some programme material, and on others, the effect is almost inaudible. I'm doing a record with a lot of guitars, and it IS nice on guitar busses, so it will pay for itself there as well as the BGV bus.

Using on the master is hit or miss.....hopefully more hits than misses!
Old 19th December 2009
  #266
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nicogrubert's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Buchan View Post
Okay, I am on a bit of guilt trip now.
I am building up quite an obscene collection now of "just make it better" plug-ins.

I have
- UAD Fatso
- SPL TwinTube
- Powercore MD3 (okay so this is a mastering plug)
- and now Vitalizer
Same configuration here, except the twintube.
I am trying the demo out and I really like what the SPL does on a simple synth chord.
Not sure, if I can achieve the same effect with fatso plus something from the UAD-2 omni pack or powercore 6000.
Old 20th December 2009
  #267
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WunderBro Flo's Avatar
I bought it because I always wanted it as a plugin for the stereo widening alone, I loved what it did on the hardware and the plugin does it equally well. The EQ sections are interesting as well, I also use them but normally to a very small extent, the process dial rarely goes over 2. As I was curious what it is doing eq wise, I ran it through q.clone. Here are the results I remember: The process function does two things at the same time, it applies a non resonant boost in the highs and/or upper mids and a bell-curve cut around 60Hz (which really surprised me first...). The EQ dial adds a boost with a resonant highshelf, however the f dial of the eq does not change it much, it barely changes it´s corner frequency between it´s minimum and maximum dial setting. The bass processor is interesting, the soft side applies a boost under 100Hz - I found that together with the process 60Hz cut it results in something that is a resonant bass shelf in the end most of the time. You thin out the bass with process and bring it back with soft, the end result is less upper bass and more lower bass, similar to the boost&cut of the bass at the same time with a pultec. Now the tight control is the freak of the show.....it changes it´s function depending on the strength of the process dial. When little process is dialed in, adding "tight" cuts the bass with a bell curve. The more process you use and the more "tight" you add you will find at some point it changes it´s behaviour to a bass boost. Seems pretty crazy but that´s what I remember from the graph I was getting.
Another thing is that I dialled in some settings as starting points that give me the flattest f response possible at low and medium process intensities. This way I can recall the preset and use the f of the process to change the highs only without being distracted by the change in bass at the same time. Or I can use the bass controls only without really changing the highs.

What I would love to know from SPL: Is the process function "just" an EQ with interacting bands or is there more going on? In other words, could I get a comparable result if I had used 4 bands of "normal" EQ to apply the same curve that the Vitalizer creates? Just out of curiosity, not trying to bash the product at all, just to clarify something that seems to be a myth in the pro audio world!

Rock on!
Pat
Old 20th December 2009
  #268
FBM
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FBM's Avatar
 

I have the hardware unit as well. And before I didn't had the software I used the Waves C4 all bands bypass except for 60 Hz (if that is what you like) then Uad Pultec-pro and a stereo width plug-in after that. The Vitalizer plug-in is much easier of course, but this comes very close. For the hard and soft bass I played with the attack and release times of the C4.

With the Pultec you have the same curve as the Vitalizer thats why both sound so pleasant :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher–Munson_curves
Old 20th December 2009
  #269
Gear Addict
 

Thanks Pat for the analysis.

Kind of what I experienced too by just listening. Maybe the treble improved with the plugin, but the price was loss of bass. So I had to dial in more and more soft bass. As for stereo widening I have at least 5 plugins doing that. What's the difference here?

Addition: Can anyone explain the difference between this unit and the BBE or Aphex (the one with bass boost)?
Old 20th December 2009
  #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tombuur View Post
Addition: Can anyone explain the difference between this unit and the BBE or Aphex (the one with bass boost)?
That would be very interesting to know...
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