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Great River product? Summing Mixers
Old 13th November 2009
  #31
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RonT's Avatar
 

I have been seriously considering upgrading my DBox to something like the ssl Xdesk or Dangerous 2bus LT and I have looked closely at the shawdow hills equinox. This seems very very interesting with the "Bus" having a "sound" and 4 GR Pres!!!

Very intersting
Old 13th November 2009
  #32
BT_
Gear Head
 

without getting into details,the panning on 5-20 will be addressed...

we should have better details and pictures,hopefully by the end of the year..


Old 13th November 2009
  #33
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Ron wrote, "I have looked closely at the shawdow hills equinox". So have I... On that topic, my friend has had excellent results with the Shadow hills equinox. It is also 3995, which is approx 1500 cheaper- no small difference. Sums 32 outputs and has 2 mic pre with switchable transformers on it. Obviously a different feature set than the GR mixmaster.

I must admit I was dismayed to hear the great river would be in the 5.5k range. I am a huge Great River fan, and I'm sure it will be worth every penny. Just a big pile of dough that puts it out of my reach, and perhaps the reach of others.

Just wondring- have you thought about a version of the GR mixmaster with out 4 mic pres- instead, 4 line ins. Perhaps in the 3k range?

Anyhow, keep up the good work. I'm sure it will be amazing.
Old 13th November 2009
  #34
BT_
Gear Head
 

MixMaster is an entirely different beast from the Equinox..

the 4 "mic pre"channels are switchable to line in..those 4 channels have both input and output transformers....aka hot channels,kick,snare vox,bass etc....

there will not be a scaled down version,sorry..

most everything is covered in the links, in previous posts

Old 13th November 2009
  #35
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RonT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BT_ View Post
MixMaster is an entirely different beast from the Equinox..

the 4 "mic pre"channels are switchable to line in..those 4 channels have both input and output transformers....aka hot channels,kick,snare vox,bass etc....

there will not be a scaled down version,sorry..

most everything is covered in the links, in previous posts


How is it entirely different? I have read the links and read its features...It sounds exactly the same as the equinox but with 4 mic pres instead of two? Please explain how it's "entirely" different..... outside of the color that each unit will offer
Old 13th November 2009
  #36
Pans and Auxes. I have the Equinox, and I do like it, but while it's technically a 30 channel summer, it's not really because everything is stereo going in. In this regard it's more of a 15 stem summer. What the MM does is give you pan control so a signal you want in stereo only needs 1 channel DA and one summing input. The auxes also save you DA channels during mix time. Instead of a DAW aux using a DA channel to hit your outboard effects, you use the MM aux. Also gives you some monitor options during tracking.

Personally, I like the stepped pans. I actually just replaced a dead pan pot with this exact same 5 position setup. Recallability and a deterrent for fiddly-ness seem like nice additions to the pan system. Although i wouldn't be against a 9 position, breaking each direction into quarters (or 7 position into thirds for that matter).
The only thing this is missing to keep my from beginning the arduous task of building my own mixer is faders. Give me the 8816 option for that and i'll start saving now.
Old 13th November 2009
  #37
BT_
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonT View Post
How is it entirely different? I have read the links and read its features...It sounds exactly the same as the equinox but with 4 mic pres instead of two? Please explain how it's "entirely" different..... outside of the color that each unit will offer

I have personally used the Equinox and liked it very much...I do not want to start a a/b comparison with another guys product..

just a couple diffs are...mic pres are not on a seperate bus,master bus insert,multiple transformers in the path at once,meters,full control room section,talk back,pan,mutes,solos...

just different what can I say..

Old 13th November 2009
  #38
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RonT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BT_ View Post
I have personally used the Equinox and liked it very much...I do not want to start a a/b comparison with another guys product..

just a couple diffs are...mic pres are not on a seperate bus,master bus insert,multiple transformers in the path at once,meters,full control room section,talk back,pan,mutes,solos...

just different what can I say..

Ok Ok Ok!
Old 18th November 2009
  #39
Gear Nut
 

Needs a new thread

Can someone start a new thread an give this product some justice. I almost lost track of this item. 2010 is looking good, only my wallet will be complaining. at least my jeans will stay in shape.
Old 20th November 2009
  #40
BT_
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by has2bhot View Post
Can someone start a new thread an give this product some justice. I almost lost track of this item. 2010 is looking good, only my wallet will be complaining. at least my jeans will stay in shape.
sit tight and justice will come..the final unit will have a very classy feel and sound...fear not !!


Old 26th November 2009
  #41
Lives for gear
 

this sounds like a product w/tons of good ideas all wrapped up in it. seems pretty flexible. wish it had 4 sends though. that's kind of the minimum for my needs.

still though.. it seems like they are getting it right.. i don't think it'll make me sell my little calrec minimixer but i bet a lot of people will find this the perfect solution.
Old 26th November 2009
  #42
Gear Maniac
 
devinkerr's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ignatius View Post
this sounds like a product w/tons of good ideas all wrapped up in it. seems pretty flexible. wish it had 4 sends though. that's kind of the minimum for my needs.

still though.. it seems like they are getting it right.. i don't think it'll make me sell my little calrec minimixer but i bet a lot of people will find this the perfect solution.
Yea, if it had 4 sends, it'd be a really useful box for me.

Does no one else want to cue mix in analog?
Old 29th November 2009
  #43
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tiny333's Avatar
 

Wink yeah !

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikefatom View Post
whatever it is, I'm sure I will want one!

this is of course the best post in the history of gearslutzzzzz


Old 18th December 2009
  #44
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jpupo74's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell View Post
Its a 20X2 Recording Mixer with 4 newly designed Great River Mic amps, complete with console inspired Monitor/Master section.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/4677224-post129.html
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/4678630-post135.html

Hope this helps explain the Great River ME MixMaster for you.

Also: here is a picture Jules took of the 1st Proto-type @ AES NYC.


Things will of course change, as the design is now 3RU.
Last AES I visited he was showing a compressor and it never hit the market...
Cheers,
Pupo
Old 18th December 2009
  #45
Lives for gear
 

On the other hand, _this_ AES he showed a Harrison EQ prototype and those are already in production. When Dan wants to get it done, he'll get it done.

-Ben Loftis
Harrison Consoles
Old 18th December 2009
  #46
Lives for gear
 

Yeah, the compressor is a headache.

Unfortunately it got hit by the economic disaster we've all been in.

It requires a large amount of software, and being a small company we only have one software guy. He is up to his ass in developing industrial control software for our other customers.

Many GS'ers may not know that 50% of Great River's business is as an OEM manufacturer of industrial control systems. We build motor controllers, elevator (passenger and freight) controls, HVAC control systems and a number of other
small projects.

Most are signal conditioning with microprocessor control, much like the recording products.

It's all in the works, just taking longer than desired.
Old 18th December 2009
  #47
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpupo74 View Post
Last AES I visited he was showing a compressor and it never hit the market...
Cheers,
Pupo
Yeah I messed with that one a bit and it sounded great (I know, just heard it on the AES floor, but you know what I mean)... The only thing i asked Dan as for a MIX (Wet/Dry) knob for easy parallel slammin'...

I have two GR preamps, MP2-NV and MP2-MH, both of these units are so amazing! I keep discovering new things to do with them, and I am always going from one to another as my fav preamp!!

Hope this mixer is KILLER and i'll expand my analog summing to more channels !!!

Bring it on Dan and keep up the great work!
Old 18th December 2009
  #48
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jpupo74's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Kennedy View Post
Yeah, the compressor is a headache.

Unfortunately it got hit by the economic disaster we've all been in.

It requires a large amount of software, and being a small company we only have one software guy. He is up to his ass in developing industrial control software for our other customers.

Many GS'ers may not know that 50% of Great River's business is as an OEM manufacturer of industrial control systems. We build motor controllers, elevator (passenger and freight) controls, HVAC control systems and a number of other
small projects.

Most are signal conditioning with microprocessor control, much like the recording products.

It's all in the works, just taking longer than desired.
Cool, in the meantime Ill continue to enjoy my preamps!
thumbsup
Old 23rd December 2009
  #49
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Wes Kuhnley's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfurry View Post
Ron wrote, "I have looked closely at the shawdow hills equinox". So have I... On that topic, my friend has had excellent results with the Shadow hills equinox. It is also 3995, which is approx 1500 cheaper- no small difference. Sums 32 outputs and has 2 mic pre with switchable transformers on it. Obviously a different feature set than the GR mixmaster.

I must admit I was dismayed to hear the great river would be in the 5.5k range. I am a huge Great River fan, and I'm sure it will be worth every penny. Just a big pile of dough that puts it out of my reach, and perhaps the reach of others.

Just wondring- have you thought about a version of the GR mixmaster with out 4 mic pres- instead, 4 line ins. Perhaps in the 3k range?

Anyhow, keep up the good work. I'm sure it will be amazing.

Unfortunately, simply removing 4 mic amps and retaining the line amps won't remove 2-2.5K worth of cost. Think about it, a dual channel mic pre is $2300-2400 retail, how are we supposed to fit 22 more channels with mix amps, inserts and all the associated transformers for an additional $700-1000?
Old 23rd December 2009
  #50
BT_
Gear Head
 

The MixMaster will come along and work for many people...please understand that it is not possible to meet everybody's needs and price point, on any level..

this unit has a feature set and sonic stamp that is not available from any other manufactuer,it is unique in it's own right and may work for some and may not for others....

when these units hit the recording world,people will tell....

Happy Holidays
b
t
Old 14th January 2010
  #51
Dan, these Mic amps are undeniable!!! I am absolutely pumped about the mic amps thus far. They have a noise floor going into the basement and beyond. There is zero noise at high gain, and they have quite a high gain range. When turning up the gain on this baby; it sort of feels like the preamplifier has been removed from the situation, and your microphones and sources have come 6 inches closer to your face. WOW!

They are crystal clear sounding preamplifiers, that have AMAZING boldness to the lower mid range, while there is some "weight" and "heft" to the sound, it feels more like a really clean and open texture that has a lot of spacial depth. Its extremely "relaxing" to listen to any microphone through this preamplifier, and I mean that in a "non-fatiguing" way, as well as the feeling of accomplishment over the sound of my microphone.

Its very articulate, fast, but somehow incredibly smooth! Go figure. I think it may "have the transformer sound" without the transformer sludge and loss of depth. It seemingly handles both clean and "something" else. The color in the low midrange is priceless to me, but I would put the quality level of this preamplifier, RIGHT next to the other great microphone preamplifier designs of our time. Great Work Dan!
Old 14th January 2010
  #52
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heyman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell View Post
Dan, these Mic amps are undeniable!!! I am absolutely pumped about the mic amps thus far. They have a noise floor going into the basement and beyond. There is zero noise at high gain, and they have quite a high gain range. When turning up the gain on this baby; it sort of feels like the preamplifier has been removed from the situation, and your microphones and sources have come 6 inches closer to your face. WOW!

They are crystal clear sounding preamplifiers, that have AMAZING boldness to the lower mid range, while there is some "weight" and "heft" to the sound, it feels more like a really clean and open texture that has a lot of spacial depth. Its extremely "relaxing" to listen to any microphone through this preamplifier, and I mean that in a "non-fatiguing" way, as well as the feeling of accomplishment over the sound of my microphone.

Its very articulate, fast, but somehow incredibly smooth! Go figure. I think it may "have the transformer sound" without the transformer sludge and loss of depth. It seemingly handles both clean and "something" else. The color in the low midrange is priceless to me, but I would put the quality level of this preamplifier, RIGHT next to the other great microphone preamplifiers designs of our time. Great Work Dan!

Adam, I think a Meth lab video showing the features and what this box can do is in order.. Dont cha think?
Old 14th January 2010
  #53
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jamwerks's Avatar
 

I'm still intrigued by the choice of 4 onboard amps.
Do they and their iron come into play in the mixing or post buss comp makeup gain? This is geared for (nice pun ayye ) high enders who want individual choice colors in their pre's and probably not 4 of the same, no matter how good they are.

And I'd say a minimum a 8 panned channels with easy recallable 11 steps: center, hard, & 4 in between per side).
Old 14th January 2010
  #54
Quote:
Originally Posted by heyman View Post
Adam, I think a Meth lab video showing the features and what this box can do is in order.. Dont cha think?
Ya, I do think so heyman.

But - when is another question.

**Coming Soon to an internet browser near you**
Old 14th January 2010
  #55
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamwerks View Post
I'm still intrigued by the choice of 4 onboard amps.
Not optional. Standard.

These first four channels are switchable from Mic to Line inputs. They have Insert Send and Return's per channel, that also work for the Line Inputs.

The Latency killing layout is started with the Direct Output of these channels and the finishing move is the "ON" button, which puts "you - on the master buss". On a Per Channel Basis, you can select what you would like to use, [Mic/Line] so yea, you can easily patch ANY outboard mic amps you want, and still use the insert send/return onto the Direct Output. There you would patch the signal into your AD converters, and monitor the signal before the DAW, thus achieving zen master latency free status.

Quote:
Do they and their iron come into play in the mixing or post buss comp makeup gain? This is geared for (nice pun ayye ) high enders who want individual choice colors in their pre's and probably not 4 of the same, no matter how good they are.
By mix time, these first four channels would be switched into Line, and they are indeed the "hot" trafo'd channels. They are partly responsible for bringing the "heat" to this box. You might land kick/snare/bass and vocal there, [crucial elements that need more density] so you can drive the channel a bit and get it sounding "bigger".
Old 14th January 2010
  #56
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamwerks View Post
And I'd say a minimum a 8 panned channels with easy recallable 11 steps: center, hard, & 4 in between per side).
What if I told you that ALL channels [including 5-20] have fully variable pan, and fully variable level controls? Of course, the "Hot" Channels have had this since day one; but due to all the feedback we got at the AES show; this thread, and the Mercenary/Great River team as a collective, we decided to make these changes to the unit. Now Channels 5-20's pan/level, are controlled by a rather innovative digital encoder inside the channel select matrix. The Visual is also there, with a horizontal pan and channel level meter so you can see what you are doing with the channel. You can easily jump in an nail volume and pan moves without a struggle now.
Old 14th January 2010
  #57
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell View Post
What if I told you that ALL channels [including 5-20] have fully variable pan, and fully variable level controls? Of course, the "Hot" Channels have had this since day one; but due to all the feedback we got at the AES show; this thread, and the Mercenary/Great River team as a collective, we decided to make these changes to the unit. Now Channels 5-20's pan/level, are controlled by a rather innovative digital encoder inside the channel select matrix. The Visual is also there, with a horizontal pan and channel level meter so you can see what you are doing with the channel. You can easily jump in an nail volume and pan moves without a struggle now.
Wow!!
Sounds like an amazing product.
Some kind of software app for this would be perfect, so you could save layouts and move between them. Let's say, a layout where out of the the 16 channels (5-20) 4 are panned center and the other 12 become 6 stereo pairs, and another layout where 8 are mono and 4 stereo pairs...
Old 16th January 2010
  #58
Gear Head
 

Can not wait for this thing to come out..

It sounds like everything a DAW user would want from an analog desk, but without the desk. Thanks Dan, Adam, BT. Love your work.
Old 25th January 2010
  #59
i'd be happy with just mono... maybe LCR when I feel like doing something crazy, but that's probably just me and 4 other people in the world. Anything that Mercenary has their name associated with will not suck at what it does and will be worth much more than it's price. I'm hoping that the price point is not too far off from the original 5.5k with the additional features added though! I'm stoked for this to come out!

btw... "please add full parametric eq on every channel, inserts and direct outs on channels 5-20, 4 more aux sends, external power supply, a cascading option (for my 120 track projects), take it out of the rack and put it in a nice oak enclosure that fits on my desk (not to big though) and drop the price to $3,000. Thanks. I'll totally buy it then. Oh! and a meter bridge!"

keep up the great work guys!
Old 18th March 2010
  #60
Gear Addict
 

I read somewhere (golden ears???) about an experiment with panning and the results where surprising (for me and the writer):
We are WAY less sensitive to panning that we like to think. WAY WAY LESS. Meaning you can tell the difference between a 3 db cut in 1k and 1k2 and won't even notice a kinda severe change in panning.
It's physics, ladies and gentlemen, so don't play around too much with the panner pot. I mean, panning is a quarter of a mix, but the difference between 58 and 65 in PT is just negligible! FOR REAL!
The best mixing engineer that has set a foot on my studio used the center A LOT. More than I ever imagined. His mixes were nothing short of stunning (and wide too!).
5 position pot? Why not? That's all I need. But I have a console anyway...
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