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Dave Lebolt leaves Digidesign for Apple?
Old 23rd June 2009
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petermix View Post
Digi's business model is fast becoming obsolete...
Did you ever think that maybe he was responsible for perpetuating that business model and now that he's gone, it will get better??? Just a thought.
Old 23rd June 2009
  #62
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Petermix's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zboy2854 View Post
To those who have been predicting, wishing or hoping for the demise of Digi for years on end, any piece of information will be interpreted by them as supporting their position.
Just to be clear, I do not wish to see DIGI's demise... however, I do wish for them to wake the f*** up and smell the coffee!!!!

Proposition # 1 : Audio/Music creation/delivery of all sorts is already being made as we speak on Mac/PC's with Logic/Cubase/Nuendo/Samplitude/Reaper etc... complementing the host's power with UAD2/PoCo/Duende/LiquidMIx etc... at a fraction of the cost with no quality gap.

Proposition # 2 : How many Tours/Film TV Post houses/ Major Studios etc... will it take to sustain the DIGI model?

I will argue that the numbers are in favor of the former. The worsening of the economy is just accelerating the trend. And packaging 003's with some lame Production toolkit at $3k for the privilege of working native with (Gasp!!!) 128 tracks is not gonna do it either...

It's time to get off the high horse and get some hands dirty... get rid of RTAS, adopt the AU format, stop crippling the software with track count limitation (it's just plain stupid at this point) and open it up to 3rd party hardware!!!!

Just saying...
Old 23rd June 2009
  #63
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Well... maybe the next GM of Digidesign will have a newer and clearer vision for the new millennium.
Dave did a lot of good while he was the head of Digi. But sometimes when you've been in a job so long you tend to become myopic about your view of the world.
You think that because you are the 800lb gorilla, that you will always be.

Digidesign needs new hardware to sell. The marketplace is saturated with PT HD.
Maybe with Dave Lebolt's leaving Digidesign and Avid's new restructuring of it's branding, it's a good time to take stock and figure out where the company is and where it should be going.

But today (and tomorrow), his leaving Digidesign will have zero effect on my life. I still have vocals to comp and mixes to crank out.



p.s. One little post script to my post. Do you notice the number of guests outweigh the number of members on this thread?
People from both Avid/Digidesign and Apple are listening. Right now you have their ear. If you come off as a crazy mob, you blow your chance of influence.
Old 23rd June 2009
  #64
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As computers get increasingly powerful, the Avid / Digidesign / Protools business model of selling hardware to do processing becomes less relevant. It's also more expensive for users (except perhaps on the entry level) to go the Protools / Avid route.

Presently, the need for dedicated processing hardware still exists in the very top end of video + audio applications but before too long I think too will evaporate.

With unprofitability and closing of many large recording studios, Avid is losing their best and highest margin customers. Those that survive are watching their bottom line and Avid gets punched in the stomach again as high-end systems enter the market second-hand.

I wouldn't be surprised if Avid loosens its software/hardware tie-ins before too long -- perhaps reluctantly at first, probably just on the low-end -- but I think it's inevitable.
Old 23rd June 2009
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
In 2013, maybe.

- Sascha
Old 23rd June 2009
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Joe View Post
FYI ... Basically the CPU is dead. Yes, that processor you see advertised everywhere from Intel. Its run out of steam. The fact is that it no longer makes anything run faster.
Joe, CPU power has elevated faster than anyone had a right to expect 5 years ago. We will be looking at 16 actual/32 virtual cores in off-the-shelf desktop machines in 12-18 months. An order of magnitude increase in CPU power over just a few years. The economy of scale for x86 CPUs is simply unassailable by more specialized hardware.

No hard feelings, but the one statement of yours quoted above does not give a lot of weight to the rest of your comments. Can you clarify a little, please? Thanks.
Old 23rd June 2009
  #67
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kk@jamsync.com's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg View Post
Even though tech support is quite good with Digidesign now, they used to have the same sort of strategy as Apple when dealing with their user base... Dave Lebolt will fit in just right!

I couldn't agree more. No great loss to Digi and certainly no great advantage to Apple with this move.
Old 23rd June 2009
  #68
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kk@jamsync.com's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Studio Addict View Post
Did you ever think that maybe he was responsible for perpetuating that business model and now that he's gone, it will get better??? Just a thought.
I don't think he was/is powerful enough to helm any business model, but I do think we can hope that things will get better for Digi if they do a rethink of their business. This spring's redesign of the Logo with very little else was singularly unimpressive.
Old 23rd June 2009
  #69
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jpupo74's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Necola View Post
the digidesign installation guys I know are crazy busy "as usual"

I think there is a wrong picture of this company on gearslutz. just because the Mbox users are not happy, it's not that digi will fail soon, or something.

this is just a management decision. I think it doesn't affect the development of new digidesign products.

cheers
It is not because of the mbox users.
It is because you can find software nowadays such as Reaper for U$50 that can do the same thing.
And an HD System with Reaper flexibilty costs 200 times more.

Purple Audio MC 77 = 1650
Some other Pink Audio MC77865= 33000??????????

I still like HD and PT.
Old 23rd June 2009
  #70
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charles maynes's Avatar
 

Back in 1994/5 I remember having conversations with Dave when I was in the Tech Support group at Digi about how messed up ProTools was.... He was actually amazingly talented at finding faults, both large and small in most of Digi's stuff. But he was friends with Peter and Evan, and approached the problem with the most positive and forceful manner one could imagine.

Then, He was there. Hired by Digi to be a guru of sorts....
I remember being impressed (awed actually) with the thought that he had played keyboards for both Bowie and Laurie Anderson as well as about a million other great artists in the NY and world music scene-

Then I started noticing he was staying until 9 and 10pm every night.... logging bugs in ProTools and SampleCell mainly.... He would bring them to us (I was then in software testing) and spend as much time as was required to be able to reproduce the bugs so we could get them to the developers.

I left Digi about a year after that, but Dave never, ever wavered. I saw him on numerous occassions prevent the shipping of unfinished software and he was a tireless customer advocate.

I really cannot agree with the notion that he was not significant at Avid/Digi, because at least in the Digi universe, he was the most significant person there since Peter and Evan, and maybe Paul Lego (Chris Bock had special significance, but not in the same manner).

Digi will certainly be different- they have some challanges that are shared by all companies in the business, but I dont see them dying over his departure- I also think he will have a less significant impact at Apple- but that wont be because of lack of effort or passion.

Apple is truly blessed to have Dave in their corner- but they will be the ones who will choose how Dave will be used.

He is a General Patton personality. If Apple wants to give him the gas to take over the world, He will deliver.
Old 23rd June 2009
  #71
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bobsandifer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy2039 View Post
If Apple is working on a new system based on Logic with some sort of proprietary hardware component...
I think LOGIC already uses proprietary hardware Mine is currently a G5 but in a few days it will be the newest 8-core monster to use with my apogee converters. WOO HOO
Old 23rd June 2009
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charles maynes View Post
Back in 1994/5 I remember having conversations with Dave when I was in the Tech Support group at Digi about how messed up ProTools was.... He was actually amazingly talented at finding faults, both large and small in most of Digi's stuff. But he was friends with Peter and Evan, and approached the problem with the most positive and forceful manner one could imagine.

Then, He was there. Hired by Digi to be a guru of sorts....
I remember being impressed (awed actually) with the thought that he had played keyboards for both Bowie and Laurie Anderson as well as about a million other great artists in the NY and world music scene-

Then I started noticing he was staying until 9 and 10pm every night.... logging bugs in ProTools and SampleCell mainly.... He would bring them to us (I was then in software testing) and spend as much time as was required to be able to reproduce the bugs so we could get them to the developers.

I left Digi about a year after that, but Dave never, ever wavered. I saw him on numerous occassions prevent the shipping of unfinished software and he was a tireless customer advocate.

I really cannot agree with the notion that he was not significant at Avid/Digi, because at least in the Digi universe, he was the most significant person there since Peter and Evan, and maybe Paul Lego (Chris Bock had special significance, but not in the same manner).

Digi will certainly be different- they have some challanges that are shared by all companies in the business, but I dont see them dying over his departure- I also think he will have a less significant impact at Apple- but that wont be because of lack of effort or passion.

Apple is truly blessed to have Dave in their corner- but they will be the ones who will choose how Dave will be used.

He is a General Patton personality. If Apple wants to give him the gas to take over the world, He will deliver.
Ah, nice to see a post from someone who actually has experience working with him. Thanks.
Old 23rd June 2009
  #73
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kk@jamsync.com's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by charles maynes View Post
Back in 1994/5 I remember having conversations with Dave when I was in the Tech Support group at Digi about how messed up ProTools was.... He was actually amazingly talented at finding faults, both large and small in most of Digi's stuff. But he was friends with Peter and Evan, and approached the problem with the most positive and forceful manner one could imagine.

.
Sorry I don't agree with you about LeBolt (my experience with him was not encouraging; I left beta testing because they wanted me to reveal all the companies with whom I held non-disclosures and Lebolt supported this inquisition)...but I hope Danny Caccavo gets some real recognition during this turnover. He really deserves it.
Old 23rd June 2009
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Sorry I don't agree with you about LeBolt...but I hope Danny Caccavo gets some real recognition during this turnover. He really deserves it.
Well we all have different experiences KK-Mine with Dave were what they were- and Danny was great as well, but Dave's influence there was much more substantial. I am sure he disappointed people (like we all do), but in the 2 years I spent working pretty regularly with him, he was a tireless and endlessly energetic guy.

Did you know that Danny is on staff at Skywalker Sound? I think he has been there for about 4 months or so...

As to beta testing, as you know I have been involved with Digi (and others) since I left the company in 1995. Their program has had its ups and down's but I think it is a well run team, and is managed by great people.

Of course, I was a former emplyee, so I am biased. just wanted to disclose it if anyone hadnt inferred that already...
Old 24th June 2009
  #75
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kk@jamsync.com's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by charles maynes View Post
Did you know that Danny is on staff at Skywalker Sound? I think he has been there for about 4 months or so...

.
Digi would do well to ask him to come back, although I'll bet Danny will enjoy Skywalker more.
Old 24th June 2009
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Digi would do well to ask him to come back, although I'll bet Danny will enjoy Skywalker more.
I also think he will be happier at Skywalker. I am not sure how he would fit in presently- though there are some people there who do care about things. They will carry on.
Old 24th June 2009
  #77
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kk@jamsync.com's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by charles maynes View Post
I also think he will be happier at Skywalker. I am not sure how he would fit in presently- though there are some people there who do care about things. They will carry on.
Actually leaving beta testing was great. I realized how much time I had been wasting in order to help support upgrades that I could afford easily for an hour or two of studio time.
It was fun, but it was the functional equivalent of playing World of Warcraft for me.
Old 24th June 2009
  #78
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charles maynes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Actually leaving beta testing was great. I realized how much time I had been wasting in order to help support upgrades that I could afford easily for an hour or two of studio time.
It was fun, but it was the functional equivalent of playing World of Warcraft for me.
generally it is not too intrusive into my workflow, but then I used to be a tester as my day job....

I would say I am atypical I guess....
Old 24th June 2009
  #79
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kk@jamsync.com's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by charles maynes View Post
generally it is not too intrusive into my workflow, but then I used to be a tester as my day job....

I would say I am atypical I guess....
Just curious...what's your main platform? Intel octo, or...

I have a Nehalem Octo and I'm probably going with Logic instead of adding the Accel stuff to it. That may change, but I still have a 7-card Accel on a 2x2 G5 that works. We'll see.

Just as an aside, the head of ProApps at Apple has been great to deal with whenever I've had a problem. I won't mention his name here (he doesn't need any more traffic, I'm sure), but I hope that doesn't change. He's great.
Old 24th June 2009
  #80
Quote:
Originally Posted by emkay View Post
Interesting! Logic kills PT as a writing tool. If his input can up the audio side of Logic and if his input could help introduce new I/O, AD/DA alternatives and a great control surface/console for logic, i would be really pleased.
What are you talking about? Apple has been in bed with Apogee on the hardware side for a couple of years now. And the control surface companion is Euphonix. That's clear to anyone who has looked at Apple ads in the past 18 months.
Old 24th June 2009
  #81
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charles maynes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Just curious...what's your main platform? Intel octo, or...

I have a Nehalem Octo and I'm probably going with Logic instead of adding the Accel stuff to it. That may change, but I still have a 7-card Accel on a 2x2 G5 that works. We'll see.

Just as an aside, the head of ProApps at Apple has been great to deal with whenever I've had a problem. I won't mention his name here (he doesn't need any more traffic, I'm sure), but I hope that doesn't change. He's great.
Dual G5 PCI 2.0

I would upgrade, but I just cant see why- the performance I am getting is spectacular. And I would have to rebuy the cards. I am running PT8 with an HDAccel 2 and a 192 and Sync I/O- I haven't even turned the sync I/O on in the last year.

If Snow Leopard is unbeliveable I may consider it, but I have not had any problems in getting my work done with what I have.... I think on the audio side we may be seeing a gap develop between what the machines can do vs what we need them to do- which is fine by me, but it concerns me because I dont upgrade for vanity. and if the machines last for 7 to 10 years, thats a long time.... my current rig is 6 years old.
Old 24th June 2009
  #82
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kk@jamsync.com's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by charles maynes View Post
Dual G5 PCI 2.0

I would upgrade, but I just cant see why- the performance I am getting is spectacular. And I would have to rebuy the cards. I am running PT8 with an HDAccel 2 and a 192 and Sync I/O- I haven't even turned the sync I/O on in the last year.

If Snow Leopard is unbeliveable I may consider it, but I have not had any problems in getting my work done with what I have.... I think on the audio side we may be seeing a gap develop between what the machines can do vs what we need them to do- which is fine by me, but it concerns me because I dont upgrade for vanity. and if the machines last for 7 to 10 years, thats a long time.... my current rig is 6 years old.
Well, there you go...you and I see eye-to-eye on this one. My Nehalem octo rig came about because my MacBook Pro was grinding to a halt when I would work in Motion and Color. Otherwise, I would be out of debt today. I can't see adding a $30K Digi rig on top of a $20K Apple rig, not with the financial status of the world today.
Old 24th June 2009
  #83
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charles maynes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Well, there you go...you and I see eye-to-eye on this one. My Nehalem octo rig came about because my MacBook Pro was grinding to a halt when I would work in Motion and Color. Otherwise, I would be out of debt today. I can't see adding a $30K Digi rig on top of a $20K Apple rig, not with the financial status of the world today.
yup. I mean I look back on what got me into HD, and it was my $1200 (at the time) Fostex FR2....

I think we share that WW2 slogan....

Old 24th June 2009
  #84
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kk@jamsync.com's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by charles maynes View Post
yup. I mean I look back on what got me into HD, and it was my $1200 (at the time) Fostex FR2....

I think we share that WW2 slogan....

Hee...yes!
Old 24th June 2009
  #85
PDC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamwerks View Post
Probably true, but Digi has already almost quite putting out new hardware. 192's will soon share vintage status with Teletronix.
If they did release something new, it would not matter. People would bitch about it. Anything with a Digi name plate, regardless of who deisgned and built it, is doomed to be trashed here.
Old 24th June 2009
  #86
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charles maynes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Hee...yes!
I thought you would like that, though I would have thought you would have it hung up at the studio....

May God help us through these times.....
Old 24th June 2009
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn Fuston View Post
What are you talking about? Apple has been in bed with Apogee on the hardware side for a couple of years now. And the control surface companion is Euphonix. That's clear to anyone who has looked at Apple ads in the past 18 months.
...or even the Apple website. Looks like two possible future investment purchases in the Apple audio department. heh

Shane
Old 24th June 2009
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post
Apple's assembling a dream team of management in many areas. They just nabbed two AMD/ATI graphic vets (Drebin, Koduri) and now they appear to be adding top level talent in their pro apps division.
Cool. Didn't know that. Thanks for sharing thumbsup

Quote:
As for Digi they will be fine but the death knell for DSP systems has been sounding for some time now. We have 8-core systems today. In two years we'll have 16 -core workstations with 32 threads. Each core will be 4Ghz and have access to very fast main RAM.

The writing has been on the wall. Native systems will take the mantle before 2015 and won't look back. Apple will show what they can do when the next Logic Studio and Final Cut Studio show up in 64-bit and support Grand Central Dispatch in Snow Leopard.
I don't have nearly as much belief in native systems as others seem to have here. For probably as long as I can remember people have said about the latest and greatest computers "wow, this is all we ever need. How could we possibly use more computer power?". Guess what, we always can. Not least since few software developers actually care to optimize their software. If they did, we wouldn't need the latest Mac Pro, but they don't so we do. I don't see why it would be different with 16 or 32 cores.

PTHD is of course also challenged by this, but it's surprising to see people sitting with 5+ years old systems not even thinking about an upgrade. That's a damn long lifespan for a computer system if you ask me.
Old 24th June 2009
  #89
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Tony Shepperd's Avatar
Charles and KK, do you know of anyone running PCIx in a chassis and switching to a new PCIe Mac? Then running a adapter PCIe to PCIx card? I understand it saves you from having to upgrade all the HD cards. I believe the adapter card is $1100.
Old 24th June 2009
  #90
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thebri's Avatar
I know everyone's talking about Dave as if he was poached from Digi directly, but wasn't he moved over to CTO of Avid proper 6 or so months ago? Sure, they are Digi's parent company, but on a different part of the US I think. Last I was at digi's headquarters, Avid was all out and they were repainting over the purple walls...
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