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Dave Lebolt leaves Digidesign for Apple?
Old 29th June 2009
  #271
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charles maynes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeaudio View Post
Whatever chips Apple is working on don't even have to be 'dedicated' DSP chips - they would just have to be able to do DSP, just like PPC and Intel chips already do.

They wouldn't have to de designed as dongles, but if there some encryption involved, and the chips are executing some essential OS and application tasks, they will serve as dongles without even trying - since they are manufactured and encrypted by the same company that makes the OS, the computer and even the apps. This could, at least theoretically even allow for something much bigger: a version of OS X that runs on non-Apple computers (but without the extra power offered by Apple's custom chips).

While Avid is struggling with a reduced market for what many of us consider overpriced hardware, Apple is possibly struggling with more success than they can handle. They make a phone, and suddenly become the world's third largest cell phone supplier, they own the MP3 player market, are successfully invading the video editing market with Final Cut Pro, I'm sure they'll make a brilliant iPad soon, and are producing several audio apps. If there's one company that can revolutionize the audio market, it's Apple. If they aren't going to keep doing it, it's only because they don't want to.

Apple has always been the computer for audio/music, even before they owned the Logic Pro, GarageBand and Soundtrack Pro developer teams. I'm 100% sure they won't abandon the audio market, they are also loaded with money, so I'm pretty sure Dave Lebolt is a happy guy in his new job at Apple, whatever he's going to do there.
It will certainly be interesting to see where they go with all of this...

My biggest fear about Apple is their lack of commitment to small vertical markets. My end of the sound business is a tiny sliver of Apple's marketshare- I am simply concerned that they will not really be into it for the long run.
Old 30th June 2009
  #272
Gear Addict
 

So with all these people leaving is this why we still don't have 8.1 yet?
Old 30th June 2009
  #273
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jamwerks's Avatar
 

Wow, wonder if he got snatched by Apple?
Old 30th June 2009
  #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charles maynes View Post
My biggest fear about Apple is their lack of commitment to small vertical markets.
My biggest hope is their commitment to MUSIC.
Old 30th June 2009
  #275
Registered User
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeaudio View Post
Personally, I believe the market for DSP cards that can do only one thing belongs to the past. I doubt that I'll go back to using DSP cards again, but if I ever would, I would want a card that would be equally useful for video and audio.
.
You need an interface card to expand your I/O. Even a minimum I/O of 48 is required in most pro setups. So cards are necessary, plus DSP cards are needed because it negates the need to update your computer every year. I know plenty of studios still using a 2002 G4 with Protools HD. I love the fact that you can use older machines with DSP based systems
Old 30th June 2009
  #276
Gear Guru
 
charles maynes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by author View Post
My biggest hope is their commitment to MUSIC.
Music- absolutely. iTunes is a big moneymaker for them...

Music production tools.... eh..... we'll have to see about that.

We also dont know what Dave will be tasked with at this point. But IF he is going to be involved with music production tools, He will make an impact for sure.
Old 30th June 2009
  #277
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Goliath|Audio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by charles maynes View Post
We also dont know what Dave will be tasked with at this point. But IF he is going to be involved with music production tools, He will make an impact for sure.
I heard from a few very reliable sources that he would actually be going to Apple for an executive position.
Old 30th June 2009
  #278
Gear Guru
 
charles maynes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goliath|Audio View Post
I heard from a few very reliable sources that he would actually be going to Apple for an executive position.
that covers a lot of ground-

Dave is very highly-paid, so whatever he does will be fairly important.
Old 30th June 2009
  #279
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oceantracks's Avatar
 

[QUOTE=charles maynes;4333988]that covers a lot of ground-


This is actually a perfect time for a new DAW to come along and learn from everyone's mistakes. Get top customer support like Digi, price fairly like Apple, etc, etc.

With Digi firmly attached to crippling LE and insisting that users spend thousands of dollars to get a DSP based pro system, Apple with no interest, updates, support, etc, and Cubase ...well, nevermind....

TH
Old 30th June 2009
  #280
Registered User
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goliath|Audio View Post
I heard from a few very reliable sources that he would actually be going to Apple for an executive position.
He certainly will not be crushing up the pizza boxes and taking out the garbage.
Old 30th June 2009
  #281
Registered User
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
[
With Digi firmly attached to crippling LE and insisting that users spend thousands of dollars to get a DSP based pro system, Apple with no interest, updates, support, etc, and Cubase ...well, nevermind....

TH
I don't know if your aware that LE is and entry level product for Avid/Digidesign. For most companies they have low end and high end products. Don't expect high end features in entry level products. Most companies practice this when they sell technology and other products.
I just thought I point out this out for you as sometime the obvious is hard to see.
Old 30th June 2009
  #282
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gearsux's Avatar
 

Someone should move this thread

MODS, Please move this thread to a different forum (SMGSLT!), i want to read about new products not conjecture and rumors of a company that people clearly don't have any concrete information on.
Old 30th June 2009
  #283
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Geert van den Berg's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeaudio View Post
Apple is now building its own team of engineers to design microchips, and is to my knowledge the only OS manufacturer that does this. Future generations of high-end Apple hardware could come with dedicated DSP chips; self-manufactured chips that also would serve as a dongle for OS X (potentially eliminating Hackintoshes). Only god - if there is one - knows what all this means for Avid.
Apple owns a chip company, but the intention could very well be to produce the next iPhone chip inhouse...
Old 30th June 2009
  #284
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oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hipass View Post
I don't know if your aware that LE is and entry level product for Avid/Digidesign. For most companies they have low end and high end products. Don't expect high end features in entry level products. Most companies practice this when they sell technology and other products.
I just thought I point out this out for you as sometime the obvious is hard to see.
Most companies do not have a 6-8000 leap between their low and high end products, especially when the results the thousands get you are minimal compared to the dollars spent.

TH
Old 30th June 2009
  #285
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studiojimi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
Hey jimi, what part of town is your studio in?
Now that I live in LA, I might have to stop by sometime.
i'm not too far from the farmer's market / fairfax district
Old 30th June 2009
  #286
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nativeaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg View Post
Apple owns a chip company, but the intention could very well be to produce the next iPhone chip inhouse...
That's what they've said they will do - but doesn't mean that that's all they'll do.

"Officially" there was no work being done an an Intel version of OS X either (but it was worked on on the background for 5 years before OS X for Intel was announced...)
Old 1st July 2009
  #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
Most companies do not have a 6-8000 leap between their low and high end products, especially when the results the thousands get you are minimal compared to the dollars spent.

TH
A little more than minimal when u r doing 100+ tracks film post or album projects that have been tracked in PT and they all want their sessions back in HD because it's in every professional studio around. Let us not forget the producers that show up with their ilok authorizations for plug-ins they cant live without.

If u look at it as the bedroom engineer or local project engineer than it's a different view. We all agree Digi needs a "new product" that can compete in 2010 and beyond but they r still everywhere like old SSL & Neve Consoles.
Old 1st July 2009
  #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hipass View Post
You need an interface card to expand your I/O. Even a minimum I/O of 48 is required in most pro setups. So cards are necessary, plus DSP cards are needed because it negates the need to update your computer every year. I know plenty of studios still using a 2002 G4 with Protools HD. I love the fact that you can use older machines with DSP based systems
And why exactly wouldn't you be able to use, say, an octo Mac Pro in 5 years from now?
A DSP card is getting outdated just as fast as a computer. You can only run a certain amount of plugins through it.
When computers were weaker, DSP cards were the only option to get enough computing power, but that has got nothing to do with a "stable" value or whatever. In fact, these days native wins hands down in terms of future compatibility. Look at all those people having to simply flush their bog standard PCI cards down the toilet simply because it's all PCIe these days...

- Sascha
Old 1st July 2009
  #289
Gear Guru
 
charles maynes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
And why exactly wouldn't you be able to use, say, an octo Mac Pro in 5 years from now?
A DSP card is getting outdated just as fast as a computer. You can only run a certain amount of plugins through it.
When computers were weaker, DSP cards were the only option to get enough computing power, but that has got nothing to do with a "stable" value or whatever. In fact, these days native wins hands down in terms of future compatibility. Look at all those people having to simply flush their bog standard PCI cards down the toilet simply because it's all PCIe these days...

- Sascha
I havent flushed mine- and I know a lot of people who havent flushed their cards as well.
The why? because they continue to work just fine.

Looking to the future is a fine thing- but many out there have todays sessions to get through- HD is handling that fine. What will the future hold? better, cheaper faster-
but one has to measure their hard needs against their wants and desires.
Old 1st July 2009
  #290
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relaxo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hipass View Post
I know plenty of studios still using a 2002 G4 with Protools HD.
May I be bold enough to call that reeeeeeally dumb and/or fully insane when studios have such old computers when the computer today is what's used 24/7, the center core of the entire studio? With selling their G4 plus a couple hundred bucks they could get a used dual G5! There is no possible place to get more gain for your money. Maybe you don't need the extra plug-in processing DSP, but there is a thousand miles between the snappiness of a G4 and a G5.

If they're a public studio, no freelance engineer wants to work on a damn G4. I positive they're losing biz by keeping a G4. And if it's their own system, well fine, let them be in the dark ages and take waste hours accumulated into days with extra long copying times, startups times, application run times, Safari page load times and inability to play HD video and flash video etc etc etc
Old 1st July 2009
  #291
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nativeaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
because they continue to work just fine.
The old DSP cards will continue to work fine, that's true. But if you want to update your computer, they may not even fit into the new PCIe slots. If you want to upgrade your OS, it may not work on several years old Macs - and so on.

In the latter example (where you want a new Mac that's compatible with eg. Snow Leopard), you may have to have to spend money on upgrading your hardware (but the Mac only) even if you don't rely on 3rd part DSP cards. Lots of people seem to want to upgrade their computer anyway, but not their DSP cards - simply because they don't have to: for each new computer model, their need for these DSP cards will diminish - sometimes dramatically.

Now you could say that all this is bogus and opinionated pro native propaganda. :-) Still - in the real world out there, there are many studios that have not updated their systems to PCIe, because the price of keeping up-to-date seem a little awkward now when most people probably don't need these cards anymore (for other than compatibility).

Whatever way you look at it, Avid is in a special situation which isn't very different from the days where some people defended use of tape and external, rack mount effects almost fanatically.

I know quite a few people who have bought new Macs, but who use their old Mac for audio (because they haven't upgraded to PCIe). Since bouncing, freezing, rendering (video or audio), data throughput, memory handling and much more (all audio related) perform so much better on newer computers, the dilemma about going native (or at least reducing the number of DSP cards to a minimum: one card) or keep updating the card based system simply will pop up. Often.

In short: at some point it doesn't matter if the old cards work just fine. People want to update their computers anyway.
Old 1st July 2009
  #292
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kk@jamsync.com's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by relaxo View Post
May I be bold enough to call that reeeeeeally dumb and/or fully insane when studios have such old computers when the computer today is what's used 24/7, the center core of the entire studio? With selling their G4 plus a couple hundred bucks they could get a used dual G5! There is no possible place to get more gain for your money. Maybe you don't need the extra plug-in processing DSP, but there is a thousand miles between the snappiness of a G4 and a G5.

If they're a public studio, no freelance engineer wants to work on a damn G4. I positive they're losing biz by keeping a G4. And if it's their own system, well fine, let them be in the dark ages and take waste hours accumulated into days with extra long copying times, startups times, application run times, Safari page load times and inability to play HD video and flash video etc etc etc

The dual G5 is just a classic. I have one in my main mix room and I keep things backed up, so if it blows, I'll just grab another one for cheap on Ebay. I'm probably going to add another Nehalem octo in there so I can switch back and forth between them when I want to do graphics and to help me slowly get accustomed to Logic, but I dread the day when I have to say goodbye to that dual G5 platform!
Old 1st July 2009
  #293
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relaxo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I dread the day when I have to say goodbye to that dual G5 platform!
don't dread! hope for! the Mac Pros kill dead G5s in number crunching as well as in overall snappiness


(then with snow leopard multiprocessor support, stand back (finally) and let 'er rip)
Old 1st July 2009
  #294
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by relaxo View Post
don't dread! hope for! the Mac Pros kill dead G5s in number crunching as well as in overall snappiness


(then with snow leopard multiprocessor support, stand back (finally) and let 'er rip)
Yeah, I have to agree.... I still have the Dual G5, but it is relegated to accounting and backup these days... When I got the early 2008 MacPro 2.8 8 Core, the G5 got very old very quickly. The MacPro is insane..... Never say never, but it has never left me short for processing power.. not even close.
Old 1st July 2009
  #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charles maynes View Post
Music- absolutely. iTunes is a big moneymaker for them...

Music production tools.... eh..... we'll have to see about that.
Which is why I talk about *hope*.

Could go either way.
Old 1st July 2009
  #296
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ddageek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeaudio View Post
The old DSP cards will continue to work fine, that's true. But if you want to update your computer, they may not even fit into the new PCIe slots. If you want to upgrade your OS, it may not work on several years old Macs - and so on.

In the latter example (where you want a new Mac that's compatible with eg. Snow Leopard), you may have to have to spend money on upgrading your hardware (but the Mac only) even if you don't rely on 3rd part DSP cards. Lots of people seem to want to upgrade their computer anyway, but not their DSP cards - simply because they don't have to: for each new computer model, their need for these DSP cards will diminish - sometimes dramatically.

Now you could say that all this is bogus and opinionated pro native propaganda. :-) Still - in the real world out there, there are many studios that have not updated their systems to PCIe, because the price of keeping up-to-date seem a little awkward now when most people probably don't need these cards anymore (for other than compatibility).

Whatever way you look at it, Avid is in a special situation which isn't very different from the days where some people defended use of tape and external, rack mount effects almost fanatically.

I know quite a few people who have bought new Macs, but who use their old Mac for audio (because they haven't upgraded to PCIe). Since bouncing, freezing, rendering (video or audio), data throughput, memory handling and much more (all audio related) perform so much better on newer computers, the dilemma about going native (or at least reducing the number of DSP cards to a minimum: one card) or keep updating the card based system simply will pop up. Often.

In short: at some point it doesn't matter if the old cards work just fine. People want to update their computers anyway.
This why people pay the high price for a Magma Chassis!
Old 1st July 2009
  #297
Gear Nut
 
Uncle Joe's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zboy2854 View Post
Well, obviously whatever the future holds is still very much the subject of speculation. However, as a long time PT user, I can say that if there ever is a Pro Tools "killer", it won't be another DAW, it will be Digidesign themselves.
G'day,

"Aahh ah ahahahaaa, aahh ah ahahahaaa
What will you do when the label comes off,
And the plastics all melted, And the chrome is too soft? "
Frank Zappa.

All the best,

Uncle Joe

.
Old 1st July 2009
  #298
Deleted bd1be4f
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Joe View Post
G'day,

"Aahh ah ahahahaaa, aahh ah ahahahaaa
What will you do when the label comes off,
And the plastics all melted, And the chrome is too soft? "
Frank Zappa.

All the best,

Uncle Joe

.
Well, that was helpful and informative...
Old 1st July 2009
  #299
Lives for gear
 

Interesting tea-leaves:

Logic 8
Apogee + Apple "partnership"
Snow Leopard's "OpenCL" (computing power from graphics cards)
Snow Leopard's "Grand Central Dispatch" (better use of multi-core processors)
Hiring of Digidesign top gun, Dave Lebolt

Hmmmm. 2010 will be interesting for sure...
Old 2nd July 2009
  #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6strings View Post
Interesting tea-leaves:

Logic 8
Apogee + Apple "partnership"
Apogee's latest low end initiatives don't seem particularly interesting to me.
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