Yes I'm sure Hazel had an influence but dont forget we had just recruited the marketing director of Neve also.

Actually that's not correct. Senility affects us all. When Hazel joined the marketing director left to go to (guess where?) At that point I expect AMS started honing its automation skills!

Hi

Ahhhh... you work for the place! That director's name is on the tip of my tongue but I just can't recall it.

Senility rules!

The J is known for being clean, too clean for most music mixers apparently, but the film guys like them. Bob Clearmountain says you can't make a J grunt like a G, etc... I believe the K can grunt, and perhaps the AWS 900 too even (little grunt).

I also heard recently that the K is really the first console that SSL considers to be what they set out to design in the first place. That is the best sounding console they can build, along with all the SSL bells and whistles (automation, etc...).

jdunn wrote:

..Bob Clearmountain says you can't make a J grunt like a G, etc... I believe the K can grunt, and perhaps the AWS 900 too even (little grunt)...

I think her grunt beats all SSL grunts, and she's MADE IN RUSSIA!

"One of the loudest of the modern grunters is defending women's champion Maria Sharapova, who, according to the paper, makes a 100-decibel grunt, roughly the same volume as small aircraft landing nearby."


excerpt from
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050618...n_050618232547

Cheers

Yeah Maria Sharapova has quite a set of vocal chords on her. I wonder if she's much of a singer? She's got the looks, though not like Anna Kournakova.

Forgive my ignorance, I haven't used either console, but how does the K beat the 88R feature-wise ? Even w/ the new encore+ automation?
Again I'll state I was really impressed w/ the encore+ package on paper...

So what does the K have going for it to favour it over the 88R?
Are we talking ease of use here or what it actually can and cannot do ?

As manager of SAE Brussels (and Sound Engineer & Producer for over 20 years now), I must say I'm very proud of the level of knowledge reached by our diploma level graduates. Not only have they learned what the traditional engineer had to know in the 70s and 80s, but they also know MIDI, digital sound, software & computer configuration, 5.1 mixing… You all get my point : It's never been so hard to be a multi-purpose sound engineer than in this new century. And yes, we teach them how to use a compressor. I don't know of any serious audio program in the world that does not - -or should not - include this, and all the other processing techniques as well. It is true however, even though they have a four-week lecture period on studio design and acoustics within the diploma level of our audio engineering program, that it is not our intention to train them as studio designers at that stage. That's a knowledge they can develop further down the line of our university bachelor and master degrees. So I can somewhat understand your frustration, having talked to those students in front of the school.

I've personally noticed that a motivated student spends his time at the school working IN the studios, and has to be dragged out of there (as Paul White, editor of Sound on Sound, humorously put it in his June 2004 editorial on audiovisual student motivation) "leaving bloodied fingernail tracks in the carpet". The motivated student does not spend his time hanging around outside the front door. If I were to make a decent opinion for myself of any school, I'd rather walk in and have a word with the staff and some students on the job.
We must all be honest about this : there have always been, are, and will be students that are not motivated enough to succeed, be it in medical school, law school, and yes... audiovisual schools. And this has nothing to do with the public or private status of the school, or with having a rich dad or poor dad, as some of you have suggested. Ask the teachers you know, in your family, anywhere. They will all confirm that.
To make sure everyone stands a chance, each applicant is thoroughly interviewed prior to enrollment at SAE Brussels. We make it VERY clear for them that the audio industry is a tough world, where motivation is of utmost importance throughout the learning stage… and as a matter of fact, throughout a good part of their career ! A career that must be driven exclusively by passion. No glitter. The bare facts.
Now I must say that my entire staff and I do many times more to remotivate students than what I've seen done throughout my entire education (in public schools btw), and later on, when I taught in several other audiovisual schools which I shall not name.

Having read all the threads, I noticed that some ex-SAE students argue that none of the practical exercises you had to do were relevant to the real world. Well pardon my French but I'll be damned !!! Almost from day one, we have students edit speech and music, then they move on to mixing 8 track then 24 track projects ; sound design, record, edit and mix to picture ; record, mix and master a wide variety of music styles (in state of the art recording suites, in 2.0 and 5.1) ; record, edit and master classical ensembles ; assist live FOH and monitor engineers in some of Belgium's top venues ; etc., etc. ... And to think that for all these years, I thought I was having them do what audio engineers do every day of the week for a living. I must be crazy !

Well I'm not alone then. In Belgium, ALL of our SAE graduates are active in the audio industry, and a fair number of non graduates also. So it seems that the decision makers in the recording studios, post-production houses, radios and TV stations, are also pretty confident in our graduates' knowledge, to a point where they're also willing to hire what some would call "less qualified". If you add the fact that SAE is validated by Middlesex University (one of the best universities in the UK) throughout Europe, you have another fairly large number of people who know what teaching is all about, that recognize the quality of our work. Now those are definitely NOT crazy people.

For all of you that have been skeptic the very instant they read "As manager of SAE Brussels", we have a very open door policy. Visiting our schools is as easy as picking up the phone to make an appointment, or even pushing the front door, if you happen to live in the same street and pass by for two years. Don't be shy. We'd be glad to show you around and explain more thoroughly "what it is we do in there".

And finally, to get back to the original subject of this thread - SAE acquiring Neve - I'd rather have a person that has always been a true passionate gear freak like Tom Misner running Neve than most of the business men and suits that sometimes end up at the helm of audio companies, with no clue as to what it is they're making and selling. That, and Peter Gabriel overlooking SSL, are the two most positive things that could happen to this sector of the audio industry.

I say this rocks !

Philippe Chambin.

Hey Philipe,

are you the cat I had a lengthy conversation with at the Icon studio at the opening of SAE A'dam? Talked about Trident DI-AN etc. ?

I seem to remember hearing something about SAE brussels...

Just had someone from SAE-Neve round here (dropping off a 1073DPA)

They said that the new head honcho (SAE owner) is VERY into music...

So one can expect developments / new products not just for the guys in suits that do broadcast & film... but for music folks too

Interesting times ahead....

That would be me. Hi there !

Cool,

I enjoyed that conversation a lot.
The studio w/ the two DI-ANs (96 in vs. 72in) I was talking about is Markant near Eindhoven: http://www.markant-studios.nl/

I think they still have the 72 input one too, it was in the Neve VR studio, think they moved the 72 input DI-AN to studio 2 to replace the SSL.
Not sure why, he may very well like the DI-ANs a lot.

Anywho, nice to see you on here Philipe !

Cheers

i think you (or others) shouldn´t look at what education jobseekers have, but what they can and know...

to don´t give a job to someone because he finished the SAE is crap, skillz are what counts, not what school one visited

(btw: i HATE the keyboard of the dell latitude)

Well, I'm glad you answered & I do not question your personal knowledge & capacities to teach, but I don't remember being impressed by any of your work & productions. I know of you, and I think we talked 4-5 years ago. Let me just tell you that I don't know what planet you are living on, but on mine, all the people I know of in the recording industry believes SAE students are not well trained. In Belgium we usually go get IAD or even INSAS students when things get serious. Guess you heard of those schools.

I'l be happy to change my mind. I'm opening a rather large recording studio in September/October if the works go fast enough. I'll give all SAE students that knock on my door a fair chance, but I know too well I'll pbly end up wanting more, and go see somewhere else.

Cheers

Anderson,

Where do get off thinking it's ok to strike such a tone w/ people you may or may not have previously met? There is really no need to get personal about things.
Personally, I really don't see the relevance of taste in this matter.

Now, back on topic:

I don't know these other schools but I doubt there are any engineering schools which produce full blown engineers. Especially not in an 18month part time period.

Engineering is just one of those skills which require a lot of time to mature.
Like a good wine, when produced it may have good potential, but it will need time to reach it.

Do you have experience w/ graduates from other schools that are instant good engineers? If you do, on more than one occasion (to rule out flukes) I'd be very interested to look into their curriculum and facilities.

Cheers,

Well publicly running someone down you think you spoke to 4-5 years ago says more about you than them.

And on the planet that I come from the school has a very good name and is constantly asked for recommendations from the industry.

Well said, I've been doing this for 19 years and I am still learning constantly but starting off at the SAE gave me a great jumpstart.

The hell with automation and SAE....someone has to buy large consoles, why not SAE, or just make the students buy them with federal loans, even better
This is coming from a lad who went to a college where they had a couple of G+'s and a small 24 channel E. Now, I find myself in front of a VR 90% of the time.

OH AND THE HELL WITH PRO TOOLS!!!! this should be moved to the moan zone, sorry in advance.

I apologize If I have been rude. You guys are right, It is not the place for such behaviours. I tend to overeact when I talk about things I care a lot about.

Cheers

That's ok, I think most of us have been there and feel it our job to remind others when they cross the line.

Have a nice day!

heh

tutt tutt tutt tutt

I AM SURE SAE STUDENTS HAVE ETHICS!

YOU SHOULD JOIN A SCHOOL AND LEARN SOME MANNERS DUDE!

BY THE WAY...WHAT´S YOUR NAME?

Private Messages are PRIVATE. Bringing them out in the open is never going to resolve anything and will only cause more upset. You have an ignore list if you wish to prevent someone from sending you a PM and in case of abuse you can allways contact Jules or a moderator.


Thanks.


Chris Lambrechts

Tom Miesner is the Devil incarnate, he is a dodgy businessman, all be it very successful, who has made his money off the backs of students with stars in their eyes. He thoughts his credentials as a producer and mixer, which is un substantiated and out rite bullxxxx. The real story is that he started the school in Sydney with a 4 track 1/4 inch reel to reel with the founder of Leonard amps. He made a ****load of money quick , doing some dodgy deals and invested his money on the stock market. He started buying property and expanding the empire. He has his own personal stockbroker. Tom Miesner is "**** you" rich, they own all the buildings where the schools are located. He underpays his employees who are all former students, and in Australia has bought all his equipment tax free with an educational loophole. He has never appeared on the BRW rich list because all his money is in tax havens. He is arrogant , with no regard for anything but his way (Ask Byron Bay council or South Sydney council where he just started building with no permits!!). I was amongst the first to mix on his VR in Wentworth ave and he come into the session and wanted to know whether I was an ex student before I operated it, when I said no, but I have a degree in electrical engineering and offered to fix the wiring problem to the dat player and looked at the o2r providing the FX returns and asked "couldn’t you afford the extra sends????. He was used to pushing people around and did not like me standing up to him with logic. He told me that he had to maintain standards as "this was a neve" and he proceeded to normalise the console, to show off his new toy, I said thanks for that, "you are normalising my mix".
With that he disappeared, I mixed the track and refused to pay my bill, and the then studio manager gave me another day gratis. I have heard his work and he wouldn’t get a job a a tea boy in a major studio, if he is that good with that much gear and time on his hands , why is he not a major world class producer, where is his credits?????? All his own engineering work is about as credible as his PHD.

There are that many ex students who cannot get a job in the industry in Australia that by the laws of saturation could never be sustained in the local market, so he had to move overseas. Having said that, there has been lots of talented people come from SAE, but it is there talent and professionalism that has sustained them not the magic SAE stairway to the stars.

He may be a great businessman, but having Miesner buy AMS neve is like having Charles Manson mind your kids!!!!. He tried to buy 301 off Jim Tagg ages before he eventually purchased it. He also at one point was trying to buy Digidesign. This is not a case of Tall Poppy syndrome, he is just a dead**** individual.
At least Peter Gabriel is an amazing human being who's body of work and benevolent actions speak for itself.



My spleen is now officially vented

Ricky

Well I am happy for you but for goodness sake, use a spell checker before you vent or at the very least - read what you write before you post it.

hmmm I like his writing style - - but I write like that myself


Jo

Sounds not so bad at all!

SAE = (for me) biggest rip-off. lazy engineers try to learn you stuff for a lot of money better be invested in gear and knowledge ( Books....).

There`s nothing you can`t learn otherwise like in books or even the internet or a workshop.

Sorry to say that, thats what i came accros after doin SAE for 2 years. NO personal training, NO accurate answers to questions by myself, NO sign of motivation by the teachers, NOT much time to learn in the studios ( too much students on the schools )...and so on....

Maybe thats my picture of it, maybe not. Maybe australia is totally different to germany, i cant answer this. But afterwards i will say, i`d better invested the money in books, some workshops, gear, and spending the time (2years) in "real" studios, you learn so much more there and faster get some references for you own.

SAE is maybe good for the one who is to lazy to read and try his own, but not for the who allready know alot of studioknowledge, cause it dont get too deep in my opinion. You get an EQ sheet for Drums for example, yeah its a good starting point, but the students will never be creative again on the EQ cause they will stop listening to the sound cause they rework the sheet.....same goes to compression and so on...i heard and saw it how student worked with it, and the sound afterwards -> TERRIBLE.

Well i learned alot! Never spending money again on schools, learn much by experienced engineers ( Studios..), learning by myself and books ( its all written there ) and I DIDNT lose my creativity of all these tools in music! thats my biggest effort.

This is all my own experiences and should not be understand as a CRY, its all subjective. So if someone from SAE school is around here, dont get dfegad to much of my lines written here, maybe its only me.

ciao

AE-ing is very hard to learn in a school IMO - it takes way too much experience to become a great AE. You can't be thought to listen - everybody has to learn that by himself. Of course you can get informed about some techniques - but that's all. It's like playing an instrument - I can show you the fingering but practicing is all up to the student. Think about it: how much does a proficient musician practice and how much do those AE's out there practice?
So I'd say go to school and learn the basics but don't forget to practice at least 3 hours a day

gotta run - cya lads


btw I know: a real musician practices more than 3 hours a day

I went to SAE Berlin and to the school in Madrid out of curiosity, since I considered to go to SAE. I ended up not going, especially after the visit in Berlin. I mean, the guys there were trying really hard and they explained all the steps of the program pretty detailed. I figured I don't need to be teached about from them about synthesizers and the common software sequencers as I knew all that already much better then they seemed to know.

SAE/FullSail/etc are a ripoffs. Well, they may get you started, but they're just too expensive and probably too crowded now. I personally would aim for a real school where you get real knowledge like electrical engineering or so. The AE-part should be learned by interning in the real world studios.

Enough OT; the question that comes to my mind regarding Neve is: How much of "Neve" is left in that company calles "Neve" today? I mean, they got their reputation mainly from the old days (70ies?) The 88R might be a nice board again after the V-crap. At least noone argues about the od stuff whereas you hear different opinions about the new gear. Same goes for SSL (4k vs 9k) and Neumann (vintage vs Sennheiser-Neumann's) maybe.