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AVID (Digidesign) - Letter from CEO ! Audio Interfaces
Old 27th August 2008
  #1
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Exclamation AVID (Digidesign) - Letter from CEO !

So I got this email on the 8th of August...

I am very surprised no one is talking about this, so I decided to post...

Please feel free to theorize upon the "between the lines" ...





A letter from Avid CEO, Gary Greenfield


Over the last six months I have had the pleasure of visiting and talking with hundreds of customers and business partners around the world. I have learned a great deal in that short time, and heard one very clear theme: Avid needs to do a better job of listening to our customers and developing solutions that truly meet their needs.

As you know, Avid has a very diverse customer base; from the millions of consumers using our audio and video products to the world's largest and most complex media enterprises. But all of these customers are united through a common desire -- to use their creative talents to accomplish their objectives and turn their dreams to reality. Regardless of where you may fall on Avid's customer continuum, each and every employee at Avid is committed to delivering on our mission to provide customers with the solutions that inspire passion, unleash creativity and realize dreams in a digital world.

To do this, however, we need to make some changes to the way we do business. Avid is very fortunate to have a strong legacy and history of innovation, with some of the industry's most talented and committed employees, and an extremely passionate customer base. At the same time, we recognize that we have a unique opportunity to better leverage the strengths of our combined company, allowing us to deliver greater benefits to you -- and all of the diverse customers we serve.

A New Corporate Strategy

We have established a new corporate strategy designed to meet the continuously evolving needs of the marketplace and enable our customers to achieve success. Part of this strategy means realigning ourselves in a way that will further integrate a range of video and audio point products into more collaborative media production solutions. It also means gaining a deeper understanding of the workflow challenges customers face everyday and helping to address them with a mix of both Avid solutions -- and systems from third-party vendors.

The heart of our strategy and the focus for the immediate future come as a direct result of the many conversations I have had with customers:
  • Build competitive tools with differentiated performance, at the right price;
  • Translate customer feedback into flexible, reliable, high-quality solutions;
  • Become more "open," offering greater interoperability between Avid systems and third-party products;
  • Refresh our product lines more frequently; and
  • Better leverage the innovation from all areas within the company to advance the market competitiveness of our offerings.

Aligning Our Structure to the Strategy

A critical component to executing our strategy is to make sure that we have the right leadership team in place. As a result, we have made several changes to the senior management team. One of the most obvious changes to the structure is that the leadership team will no longer center around separate, independent business units. Instead, we are creating a much more integrated customer-centric structure that will facilitate our goal of operating as a single company. Here's a snapshot of the new leadership team:
  • We are combining all of our sales, marketing and service across the company into one common organization: Customer Operations - led by Kirk Arnold. Customer Operations will act as a single, integrated unit representing the majority of the customer facing teams - such as sales, marketing, product marketing and service - for all of the top-level markets we serve, including Video, Audio, and Education.
  • We are re-aligning our business units to have their full attention and focus on product development. These units will include a Video Business Unit - led by Paul Lypaczewski and an Audio Business Unit - led by Tex Schenkkan. Paul joins Avid with more than 25 years of deep industry experience, having held leadership positions at ATI and Autodesk Media and Entertainment, and Tex is assuming this leadership role having been the COO of the Audio group for the past two and a half years. Both the Video BU, which now includes all of our professional and consumer video lines and the Audio group which includes Digidesign, M-Audio and Sibelius, will be integrated teams comprised of both engineering and product management.
  • On the service and support side, we've created a new Customer Success organization, led by Beth Martinko. Customer Success is an integrated team chartered with our technical service and support efforts for all of our offerings - from professional to consumer, and video to audio.
  • We also have a new Chief Technology Officer - Dave Lebolt. Dave, who moves over from GM of the Audio Group, has very strong technical knowledge of our entire company's audio and video product portfolio. As we move forward, Dave will play a pivotal role in ensuring that we continue our history of innovation in the digital media space. He'll ensure that we set the right priorities, align our resources to deliver new and emerging product solutions, and deliver an exceptional user experience that enhances the way our customers work in the future.
  • We have created an Administrative Operations organization - led by Ken Sexton. Ken has been overseeing our Finance, HR, IT and Legal functions since he joined the company earlier this year. Ken's group will now include Operations (e.g., manufacturing, quality assurance, strategic supply chain, etc.) for all of our lines - from professional to consumer, and video to audio.
  • Our Corporate Development organization will continue to examine Avid's growth strategy with respect to addressing industry trends through acquisition, third-party partnerships and other strategic business development opportunities.

This team, which is already in place, combines proven business experience with deep industry expertise. Although there are likely to be some additional changes in the weeks and months ahead as we do some additional integration and realignment work, it's important for you to know that your current sales and support contacts have not changed. As we move forward with any changes that might impact your day-to-day contacts within the company, we will share that information with you as soon as it is available.

In Closing...

We believe it is important that our customers and business partners have a clear picture of where Avid is headed in the future. We appreciate your business and look forward to helping you achieve great success in the world of digital media.

Sincerely,

Gary Greenfield
Chief Executive Officer
Avid Technology
Old 27th August 2008
  #2
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rectifier's Avatar
 

That's been posted at least twice on these forums.
Old 27th August 2008
  #3
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Talking about the Audio side of AVID,

Personally, I believe PT is the BEST, period. But lets not make this a bashing thread nor a X vs. Y DAw thread.. I just said this to express my thoughts.

I also loath Digi for their quasi- covert-ops tactics on HW and LE platform.

I believe they are bullsh*t*ng us once more, because clearly HD is going down the hole as it is simply no longer justifiable to save for these cards.

With the onset of 64 bit OS's, the magic of HD is over. Other DSP's are platform open and cheaper, many way more portable anyway (which is always a plus).

The 48 internal bus, which made HD more "special", is very near to be less than standard, when developer start writing for 64bit.

So to conclude, I think Digidesign thinks everyone is a total fart and can't see through their politics.

Sorry for being so harsh. I really have a love/hate thing going, because I love PT but can't afford HD, and I can't live with the limitations of the LE, so I am forced to be in two situations.

1 - earn less money due to client withdrawl

2 - be a little less efficient in my freelancings, because I am forced to use other DAW's to overcome said limitations, plus actually LOSE money to finance these other DAW's to be up to date, that I DON'T want to use

Digi is clearly giving out candy with very short shelf-life! I'm not buying!

In my opinion, if this email means the end of proprietary HW, track count, ADC and oh-so-many other complaints... I will come here and whip myself to shame in search for redemption...

What do you slutz think?
Old 27th August 2008
  #4
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Really?

Ok then, moderator please close and delete.

I'm in here quite daily with my coffee mug... I missed it surely. I did actually search but... well...

sorry if obsolete.
Old 27th August 2008
  #5
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I just searched for them and couldn't find them either so maybe they got deleted in the recent server outage/twilight zone GS thing.

Bump!

Old 27th August 2008
  #6
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Why do all CEO's talk like this? Just once I would like to read a letter from a company head who speaks ENGLISH, not ******.

dfegad

diverse
accomplish their objectives
dreams to reality
customer continuum
committed to delivering on our mission to provide customers with the solutions that inspire passion
better leverage
realigning ourselves
further integrate
differentiated performance
interoperability
Better leverage
Aligning Our Structure
critical component to executing our strategy
integrated customer-centric structure that will facilitate
single, integrated unit
deep industry experience
align our resources
exceptional user experience that enhances the way our customers work
proven business experience with deep industry expertise
do some additional integration and realignment work
Old 27th August 2008
  #7
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Because normally they're hired for their accomplishments in MBA's and such, highest marks to the most ambiguous speaking.

It is actually great to have such people is those positions, because normally they are actually capable of crunching huge numbers, drive expensive porches, get cheated and cheat their wives, lead meaningless lives, have serious middle age depressions, have extremely high cholesterol levels and many ohter extreme stress related issues... but love it for the sake of... huge numbers.

Can you tell I am really in a bad mood today... ?

(please excuse my manners today, dear fellow peers...)

EDIT:

Sorry... I just, again, read right through this... this letter is just complete B*LLCRAP ! And I'm talking about Digi, I have no basis on which to infer upon the other divisions.

They are very well predicting a drop-out of their marketshare and are trying to play nice in hopes no one figures it out.

Give me Protools open to third party HW, drop the unjustifiable limitations of LE platform, add ADC and I'll send you back a pint of my blood and a formal appology.
Old 27th August 2008
  #8
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peeder's Avatar
 

If they didn't use CEOspeak there would be a crisis of confidence and they would be ejected by the shareholders.

Old 28th August 2008
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remo View Post
Why do all CEO's talk like this? Just once I would like to read a letter from a company head who speaks ENGLISH, not ******.

dfegad

diverse
accomplish their objectives
dreams to reality
customer continuum
committed to delivering on our mission to provide customers with the solutions that inspire passion
better leverage
realigning ourselves
further integrate
differentiated performance
interoperability
Better leverage
Aligning Our Structure
critical component to executing our strategy
integrated customer-centric structure that will facilitate
single, integrated unit
deep industry experience
align our resources
exceptional user experience that enhances the way our customers work
proven business experience with deep industry expertise
do some additional integration and realignment work

Urban Dictionary: bull**** bingo
Old 28th August 2008
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir.Audio View Post
Give me Protools open to third party HW, drop the unjustifiable limitations of LE platform, add ADC and I'll send you back a pint of my blood and a formal appology.
Because there is no money in Software sales.
I have used Digidesign software since 1986 (QSheet) until Digidesign started selling hardware they never became a viable company. There are dozens reasons why Protools software goes with Digidesign hardware.
1) Driver/Hardrware support and programming
2) Software with features that direct access hardware
3) No real cash income from selling just software.

Apple does not just sell operating systems just like Digi does sell hardware
Protools LE is entry level software don't expect flagship features on it.
Just as an iMac does not have the features of a Mac Pro.
If HD is too expensive you should charge more.
If your job pays $5.00 an hour you probably can';t afford that brand new Lexus SUV.
People seem to have to no problems buying Neve and Pultec EQ's for 5K or more.
If you charge 500-1K/day for your work you will probably find that would no problem affording HD.
Old 28th August 2008
  #11
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i think digi sees the threats from logic pro and the upcoming uad-2 to their marketshare. They will respond but will it be a high end (HD) or an entry level (LE) response or in between?
Old 28th August 2008
  #12
you guys forgot all the icons, venues and other systems that only digi sales.

then there is avid liquid, the quasi standart in film editing..

avid ate steinberg. the first thing they made now, they cutted all the steinberg distributors and doing all the business directly from Germany (at least in europe).

so customerservice will go down the drain, they will earn more money on each cubase copy. conclusion: management decision, make more money in shorter time.

this is biz.. I don't care.



but I care if CEOs start talking about "listening to our customers" and stuff like that. no CEO listens to the customer needs and even if he would, he couldnt take all the information and tell it to the "programmers".

beeing a programmer myself, I am against this bull****-talking. no manager can EVER explain you what exactly the customer-need is.

cheers and out

thumbsup
Old 28th August 2008
  #13
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These words were mentioned in one of the best articles i read about the industry by Peter Alexander. Especially 'PT does not listen' people should read. Are Composers To Blame For GigaStudio’s Demise? Some Observations.*|*Film Music Magazine
Old 28th August 2008
  #14
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[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Necola View Post
you guys forgot all the icons, venues and other systems that only digi sales.

then there is avid liquid, the quasi standart in film editing..

avid ate steinberg. the first thing they made now, they cutted all the steinberg distributors and doing all the business directly from Germany (at least in europe).

so customerservice will go down the drain, they will earn more money on each cubase copy. conclusion: management decision, make more money in shorter time.
Wasnt it Yamaha to buy them?
Old 28th August 2008
  #15
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I cannot speak about film as I am not involved with it.

I am in for the audio department

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_R_S View Post
There are dozens reasons why Protools software goes with Digidesign hardware.
1) Driver/Hardrware support and programming
2) Software with features that direct access hardware
3) No real cash income from selling just software.
1) Bull. (not trying to pick a fight, this is my experience. It does exist, but compared to the competition it is just insignificant.)

2) Exactly. No need for it but a demand on their behalf + competition does it better.

3) Of course not. It is locked to HW. Being HW is so crap, SW suffers. HD was "the thing", now they are playing nice because raw CPU + 3rd party DSP are seriously kicking them out their market. I would definitely buy they SW ! I WON'T because its money thrown to the bin in HW I can get for 1/3 of the value, and better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_R_S View Post
Apple does not just sell operating systems just like Digi does sell hardware
Protools LE is entry level software don't expect flagship features on it.
Just as an iMac does not have the features of a Mac Pro.
ADC is flagship ?!?! Using other HW, AD/DA, clocks, etc is flagship !??! >32 ch audio is flagship ?!?!?

Comparing to Apple: exactly. You can scale down your HW necessities to fit your needs. But an top level designer will have THE SAME OS FEATURES as an Open Office essay writing student at campus, with the same level of customer support. Also, Apple takes CARE of their custormer base, they fully aknowledge when they funk up, very often recalling HW sold YEARS before, for free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_R_S View Post
If HD is too expensive you should charge more.
If your job pays $5.00 an hour you probably can';t afford that brand new Lexus SUV.
People seem to have to no problems buying Neve and Pultec EQ's for 5K or more.
If you charge 500-1K/day for your work you will probably find that would no problem affording HD.
Welcome to the Digi philosophy. Are you associated? This is simply dishonest to my customers, I refuse to do that.

When I am able to produce a 500-1k/day track, I will certainly charge that. For that I need QUALITY. In both my gear and my abilities to use it accordingly. Simply overcharging whoever is gullable to pay for it... that's not for me.

Until then I will scale up my efforts, and Digi does NOT contribute for that. It contributes to people getting into PT and becoming crack addicts for the next top dollar feature. That does work, but these days are OVER. I hate it that I like PT so much.

Look at what they did whith the Mbox 1. There is NO JUSTIFICATION for dropping support with PT7. That little box had better pre's than any of their other "entry level" HW. If you want to keep up with the SW, you must cash out for the DONGLES. every single piece of HW is seriously overpriced for the quality/features they offer.

Pure and simple, they dont want music to sound good without going HD. Period.

That to me is just sad. They sat on the throne of the Pro studio, thanks mainly to PT and the early onset of hi-res processing.

Their only hope is to separate HW from SW. When they do that, their HW sales will plummet to the ground, leaving SW. When they do that, it will be an open letter to the world stating what thieves they've been these past years.

And I am sorry to say this TRS, but this last comment of yours...
Old 28th August 2008
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir.Audio View Post
Look at what they did whith the Mbox 1. There is NO JUSTIFICATION for dropping support with PT7. That little box had better pre's than any of their other "entry level"
No one told me that. How the hell am I running PT 7.4 on my MBox?

I think you might be referring to the 001 (which I also own), and as much as I was pissed that they dropped support for it as of PT 6.4, it won't work with my new Mac's anyway cause it's PCI so I kinda understand why they dropped support and decided to jut dedicate their resources to USB/FW management. Having said that, it would be nice to be able to use the 001 with my Win XP machine as that can still utilize 2 PCI slots.
Old 28th August 2008
  #17
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Yeah, ok I kind of jumped at that one generically and hastly... I actually was damn sure they'd also dropped the mbox 1 !!

But even still... because it's PCI ??

If you want a new Mac with PCIe, you know you'll have to upgrade everything inside. That is YOUR decision, not an imposition.

But dropping support its PCI ??

Sorry, don't buy that.

Anyone using a 1010 ? What ? it's still in product list ? With support for 64 bit systems ?

This is where I am getting at. M-Audio is part o AVID and they fully support a PCI system. Protools without a hasle. Why ditch the 001 ?
Old 28th August 2008
  #18
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How much money do think it costs Digi to develop a new version of Protools the last upgrade I paid for cost $100.00 it took about 5-6 months to put out 7.4 that's not counting any time for Leopard and Vista development. Software is very expensive to develop and hardware is far less costly to make. Thus hardware profits subsidize software development and support.

They canned 001 because they brought out the 002. You could not put a 001 PCI card into a G5 even. 001 is form 1999 you can't expect it to work forever when it does not work in current computers. No company is going to spend money developing software on 8 or 9 year old obsolete hardware.
Check your facts Mbox 1 works with all versions of Protools 7 including 7.4.2 Leopard and Vista.
Old 28th August 2008
  #19
Gear Head
 

Yeah it's true software companies really need a hardware counterpart to really take off. It basically prevents piracy as a function. Digidesign does it by tying their software to the interface, apple does it by tying Logic to their computers (as in the infamous "no pc support" feature in logic 7), Universal Audio Does it by tying their plugs to DSP cards.

It's actually nice in a way, because generally the software works very well with its hardware counterpart, and keeps companies from going bankrupt due to piracy. A company can virtually give their software away if they are selling HD-3s, Mac Pros and UAD-2 quads like hotcakes.

Not too sure how Digidesign could thrive if they opened up LE software to third party interfaces. Unless maybe they had a dongle or something, cause Pro Tools would be cracked and available to anyone very quickly. People aren't buying digi hardware because it sounds great, they buy it cause they have to since the software needs it. Without that, a lot of people would probably just run a cracked pro tools with third party hardware and digi doesn't see a dime.
Old 28th August 2008
  #20
Gear Addict
ok guys how about this, the software is locked to their hardware including m-audio and ilok'd as well, then explain this logic cheapest ever protools hardware is the m-audio transit that does 24/96 ok you buy the software as well plus it has digi i/o. for me absolutely good value but then mbox2mini turns up nice idea no analog ins and no digi i/o no 24/96 but hey free software on ilok as well. it is so blooming obviously crippled intentionally i have a feel avid want to open protools but digi dont. to me anyone buying that pos must be as digi die hard far more sensible to get transit and yeah they are both usb2. hmmm
Old 29th August 2008
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digi882 View Post
ok guys how about this, the software is locked to their hardware including m-audio and ilok'd as well, then explain this logic cheapest ever protools hardware is the m-audio transit that does 24/96 ok you buy the software as well plus it has digi i/o. for me absolutely good value but then mbox2mini turns up nice idea no analog ins and no digi i/o no 24/96 but hey free software on ilok as well. it is so blooming obviously crippled intentionally i have a feel avid want to open protools but digi dont. to me anyone buying that pos must be as digi die hard far more sensible to get transit and yeah they are both usb2. hmmm

Complete sentences and punctuation would help with comprehension - but i think i see what you're getting at. Though it would help if you actually researched the correct specs on the products you're talking about. The mBox mini in fact has 2 channels in, and two out. Furthermore - it's not USB 2.0. It's USB 1.1 - though it'll work fine in a USB 2.0 port. It's the mBox micro that has no I/O.


And jesus christ people - no one is making you use Pro Tools HD or LE. I would like an HD rig but I can't afford it - that's life. But quit expecting Digi to drop their prices by 50% just so you can feel better about buying a pro tools rig. Last time I looked some of the alternatives to Pro Tools aren't that much cheaper than everyone makes them seem.....

Digi 003 (Rack - Factory Bundle) - $1549

Apogee Ensemble - $1949 -but you still have to buy DAW software (though it does go up to 192)

MOTU 192mk3 $995 - goes up to 192 but still need to buy software.


If we assume that we are using Apple's Logic - thats $500 on top of the hardware. Wow - they're all so much more affordable than Pro Tools LE.
Old 29th August 2008
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosby View Post
But quit expecting Digi to drop their prices by 50% just so you can feel better about buying a pro tools rig. Last time I looked some of the alternatives to Pro Tools aren't that much cheaper than everyone makes them seem.....

Digi 003 (Rack - Factory Bundle) - $1549

Apogee Ensemble - $1949 -but you still have to buy DAW software (though it does go up to 192)

MOTU 192mk3 $995 - goes up to 192 but still need to buy software.


If we assume that we are using Apple's Logic - thats $500 on top of the hardware. Wow - they're all so much more affordable than Pro Tools LE.
buying a 003r vs an ensemble, come on you cant honestly compare the 2. the 003r isnt even on the same level and with a 003r your getting subpar software. 32ch limitation, no adc, crappy converters, crappy pres, an interface that usually has a higher latency in anything outside of PT.
spend an extra $500 just to get 48 tracks and a few other things...
your at $2049 and you have limitations.

think about it.
hell a m-audio 2626 with the $250 PTMP software(all that PT is worth) is a better choice over a 003r.
there isnt 1 thing about the 003r that makes it worth an extra $500 over the 2626. if the 2626 is $700, the 003r need not to be much more IF ANY!!!
the 2626 is actually a better unit.

a/b, id get a 896Mkiii with cubase 4.5 or sonar, hell the standard version of samplitude 10 over a 003r any day.(better pres, better converts, software with no were near the limitations. hell if PT must be around, a 2626 with any of the mentioned software and still have pt support...
Old 29th August 2008
  #23
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Quote:
Welcome to the Digi philosophy. Are you associated? This is simply dishonest to my customers, I refuse to do that.
What's dishonest about that? Isn't it standard business practice to charge your customers more if you have more expensive equipment? When you get an MRI doesn't the biggest chunk of your money go to pay that expensive machine off? I know when they ran a diagnostic on my Jeep a few years back that was the case for the machine that they used. If your business can't support an expensive investment is that really a reason to get upset at the manufacturer of the equipment?

Quote:
Anyone using a 1010 ? What ? it's still in product list ? With support for 64 bit systems ?

This is where I am getting at. M-Audio is part o AVID and they fully support a PCI system. Protools without a hasle. Why ditch the 001 ?
Because the 001 was discontinued years ago, whereas the Delta 1010 is still in production. As a company, how much sense would it make to continue to support a product that not only has been discontinued for years, but isn't even compatible with any Apple computers (which, as I understand it, still represents about half of their LE customer base) that have come out over the past few years? As a customer, I'm certainly happy to see them dedicate their resources to current and future products rather than further developing a fairly obsolete one.

Quote:
there isnt 1 thing about the 003r that makes it worth an extra $500 over the 2626. if the 2626 is $700, the 003r need not to be much more IF ANY!!!
the 2626 is actually a better unit.
First off, if you're going to compare apples to apples, you'd need to factor in the Pro Tools software as well, so the difference in price is only $250.

As to whether it's worth the extra $250, for some people it may well be worth the extra money. It you'd need to use the DV Toolkit or DV Translator it probably would be. If you're in a higher-end facility and want to use a Control 24 it would be. If you think it sounds better (which I do) it may be worth it to you. If you need (or want) more mic preamps, or 192 kHz capabilities, or less rack space, or just want to save some extra money then sure, the 2626 may be a better deal for you.
Old 29th August 2008
  #24
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o no, not for me.
i personally run Lucid 88192 converters with a dm3200 with nuendo 4 and samplitude 10 .
i use a audiophile 192 for PT support.. but all i do is open a pt session, consolidate and mix in nuendo.
i use to have an Hd6 with a 32ch icon and 3 192 i/o
Old 30th August 2008
  #25
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I have been an AVID editor for 14 years, since version 5.5 on an 8600 Mac. Back in the days when AVR 27 was an optional extra. (for those who know what I mean).

I'll believe it when I see it. Avid allowing 3rd party hardware to be hooked up and working AND supported? I think I just saw a pig out my 15th floor window.
Old 30th August 2008
  #26
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I think they will open up / change their platform as the letter seems to be an indication of. The question is to what extent.
Old 30th August 2008
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosby View Post
Last time I looked some of the alternatives to Pro Tools aren't that much cheaper than everyone makes them seem.....

Digi 003 (Rack - Factory Bundle) - $1549

Apogee Ensemble - $1949 -but you still have to buy DAW software (though it does go up to 192)

MOTU 192mk3 $995 - goes up to 192 but still need to buy software.


If we assume that we are using Apple's Logic - thats $500 on top of the hardware. Wow - they're all so much more affordable than Pro Tools LE.
The reality ......

Digi 003 (Rack - Factory Bundle) - $1549
+$500production toolkit, to only get to 48tracks
+$300 for a convolution Reverb
+$300 for Sampler
+$800-1500 for a decent library and softsynths of sounds to cover most aspect of production , up to individual need ....
+$1000, special effects Chorus,flanges,filters , spatial enhances , delay designing etc
etc etc

Conservative total = $4500

Logic Studio + Ensemble, everything of the above and more(+3 other programs, 50 gig sound library) with better convertors and pres and no limit to track count, Plus PDC and more efficient engine for plugins and softsynths = $2400 heh

If i was still a P.Tools user HD will be the only thing i would consider, if not for HD there is better offerings out there from other companies .
Old 30th August 2008
  #28
Logic is unusable for post work, unfortunately... which is why I still have to keep PTLE onhand. Would love to make the jump though (I've started using Logic for music production, although I still do a lot of stuff in Pro Tools).

Although the DV Toolkit 2 is insanely expensive and pretty much a necessity to do mixing...

Digidesign is clearly trying to include more 'stuff' with the package, with the addition of Structure Free, Xpand!, and of course the "free" plug-ins you get with the toolkits. I'm sure this is to make the software look more attractive to someone who might be considering Logic, for example. But the software remains too crippled, and personally I can't justify the HD cost.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I hope this CEO isn't full of bullsh*t, and that this 'listening to our customers' thing becomes reality. I've told Digi in surveys before time & time again that I would pay more for a better native solution, but I will not pay for HD...
Old 30th August 2008
  #29
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I dunno'

I wonder if all this 'listening to our customers' rhetoric is as empty as Avids pockets are right now - maybe finally they have caught on that their greedy self-protectionist ethos has become outdated in the ultra-fast moving software and mac intel world.

Could just be a load of cynical CEO speak...

btw that UAD2 looks very interesting right now, hmm...
Old 30th August 2008
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H-Rezz View Post
The reality ......

Digi 003 (Rack - Factory Bundle) - $1549
+$500production toolkit, to only get to 48tracks
+$300 for a convolution Reverb
+$300 for Sampler
+$800-1500 for a decent library and softsynths of sounds to cover most aspect of production , up to individual need ....
+$1000, special effects Chorus,flanges,filters , spatial enhances , delay designing etc
etc etc

Conservative total = $4500

Logic Studio + Ensemble, everything of the above and more(+3 other programs, 50 gig sound library) with better convertors and pres and no limit to track count, Plus PDC and more efficient engine for plugins and softsynths = $2400 heh

If i was still a P.Tools user HD will be the only thing i would consider, if not for HD there is better offerings out there from other companies .
First of all - Music Production Toolkit includes a convolution reverb. And a synth (whether or not you like it or think it's any good is a different question). So knock off $300 right there. Plus Chorus and filters are included in the default Digirack plugins (perhaps they're good, perhaps not. but they're there). On top of the fact that I listed the price for the factory bundle of the 003 - which includes more filters, delays, synths, and other effects, etc... so you can knock of even more.

Edit: I forgot about Structure Free. It's a free download from Digi. Cost..... free. So there's a sampler right there.


Plus you include things like sfx libraries - but not every person needs it. It's nice that Logic gives it to you but but a lot of people don't need it all - the way I see it you're adding value to Logic alone (does Cubase come with an sfx library? How about DP? Wait, maybe Nuendo (also funny how no one brought up Nuendo... (oh. wait. it costs $1700 for the software alone).....), then applying a corresponding value in dollars to Pro Tools.

The difference is that you are comparing value while I was comparing price. Yeah Logic has a lot of stuff in it - I'll probably buy logic (though I doubt it'll ever become my primary DAW) simply for many of the features and for some of the reasons that you listed - it's a complete package. We're also assuming that the software has the same ease of use and functionality.

I don't hate logic. I think it's a good value. My point is simply that many of the Pro Tools alternatives that people say are so much cheaper - aren't in fact that much cheaper. People make it sound like you can get a complete recording setup for $200 while Pro Tools will cost at least 10x that amount - that simply isn't the case. And for people who hate Pro Tools, and use something else, a lot of the "pro tools haters" spend an awful lot of time talking about what Digi would need to to do to win them over and get them to use Pro Tools. Just find it odd, that even people who hate Pro Tools and Digi seem to spend a lot of time talking about them. Look - if you don't like Digi and Pro Tools than don't use their product. That simple.
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