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AVID (Digidesign) - Letter from CEO ! Audio Interfaces
Old 8th September 2008
  #91
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Roger Starr's Avatar
 

What do we know about the real numbers in that industry? Almost nothing I guess. We do know however that so far PT is the industry standard, all the rest is just guessing, rumoring. If we could only sneak in the managing directing meetings of Digi, AppleLogic, SteinbergYamaha...

RS
Old 9th September 2008
  #92
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Big_Bang's Avatar
 



Once again, it happens. People record their own stuff, hire someone to mix. I'm taking on this project because it's great for me plus I love the band. Plus, it's superbly recorded by someone who actually knows their stuff and has damn good gear.

They've got this Beatlesque n B-Boys vocals and strings stuff all over.

First three songs, over the 60 track counts. One even 91. This is raw track count, no bussing. Second album from an indie band that were highly appraised for their first ablum, but their promo sucked so bad they were unable to surf the press-acclaimal-wave.

Can't wait to get my ears dirty.

I would love the power of Digi by my side, but once more I am forced to go elsewhere to mix. I am currently on my second gen. SW upgrade straight to Steinberg.

So again, whoever thinks Digi isn't extorquing HW sales out of their SW department is insane.

I find no justification for their pricings, period.

I find no justification for their integration, period.

Like many, wanting to expand and grow, HD seems complete and utter waste of valuable resources.

Technology moves so fast that in current day and ages, locking SW to HW is ludicrous.

As is ludicrous when someone forces you a secondary product because you really need the first.

I need a full on Protools because it is my fav. DAW. - that reason alone should be Digi's moto, because people like it.

I dont need their HW at all as prefer all 3rd parties.

Digi will loose their market pretty damn quick with the around-the-corner 64bit era. IMHO, their only hope to survive is dropping the damn interface/dongle promiscuity.

Multi scaled optioned SW ? - Within the first 30 seconds I would drop everything and buy their fullest SW option!


.... no ADC just cracks me up in their LE line. Do they just want to make it difficuly for people to make good music on their own? I mean, I do understand that this is actually bad for our line of business, but f*ck it, I just want to hear good music coming from EVERYWHERE, despite whoever f*cking records it or how. And anyway, on the LE market, they are not top dog. (as far as I know...) - it just doesnt make sense.
Old 9th September 2008
  #93
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macgee's Avatar
i don't mind software being tied to hardware but they should have an option to upgrade the hardware by slotting in updated DSP chips or something. it's far better and cheaper for everyone and better for the environment. the industry really does need to change the way they approach this with costs already rising out of control.

i love what metric halo did, to upgrade your hardware, slot in this card and now it's updated - what an awesome decision this was!

piracy is rife so the dongle is unfortunately a necessary evil

end users define the market place and Pro Tools HD IS a niche product. for the price of HD people could have a very nice studio with good equipment and enough power to do great mixes. digi realise this and and i'm willing to guarantee that market share is being hurt. LE is incredibly crippled; i have and don't touch it anymore. i even did my Pro Tools certification...

it's just a matter of time (and it's happening quickly as we see how many studios are closing down) before most (if not all) commercial albums are recorded and mixed in someone's home studio on a native & maybe DSP combo system

with the likes of powercore and UAD, pro tools hardware is becoming ever more redundant as a DSP platform. my powercore X8 is one DSP short of an HD Accel card and the plugs are cheaper than TDM - sure you don't have the variety of plugs available but a combo of powercore and native, what more do you need to make a hit album (other than talent)

yes, pro tools HD software rocks but there are thing like the converters which have to be circumvented by investing in even more hardware. then several years down the line, they make the hardware obsolete. i'm surprised my MBOX1 still works with the current software.

anyways, digi know all this and there's some good stuff coming from them soon. let's hope it's what we're waiting for. i would try it!
Old 9th September 2008
  #94
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I dunno, many other industries do without the dongle. Graphics and web application for example, adobe, macromedia etc.

Edit:

I doubt that will ever happen with digi though but I think they should put the limitations/segmentation between products in the hardware, not in the software. They could use hardware i/o cards for low latency similar to rme or symphony and make an extra dsp card for tdm effecs but keep the software the same across the line.
Old 9th September 2008
  #95
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jslevin's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by macleodgrant View Post
end users define the market place and Pro Tools HD IS a niche product.
Pro Tools HD isn't a niche product — it's a professional, industrial product. Unlike almost everything else we discuss here, which generally are consumer/hobbyist products, even if some are capable of pro results. Even a lot of the high-end analog stuff is mainly being made for and marketed to trust fund kids, and know-nothing middle aged guys with too much New Money lying around.

The market trend for consumer/hobbyist software eventually approaches zero profit — unless you're in the boutique "bilk-the-affluent" market — and that is one big problem for Digidesign and many other companies.

Quote:
for the price of HD people could have a very nice studio with good equipment and enough power to do great mixes.
I've gone through the numbers before, and this simply isn't true. The price differencee between a basic HD system — not a tiny one, but a basic one — and a decently equipped native system is about $5,000 total. You cannot have "a very nice studio with good equipment" for $5000 — believe me, if you could, I would.

You can, however, get Logic on a MacBook and mix like crazy on your headphones. Yes, that you can do. Not at all the same thing as having "a very nice studio."

Quote:
digi realise this and and i'm willing to guarantee that market share is being hurt.
Market share? I doubt it. The real problem is that the market they always dominated, the pro studios, has shrunk immensely, and while they're selling a lot of HD systems into small, private studios, it's not enough to make up the difference, and while they're probably dominating the consumer market, too — with the help of Guitar Center staff everywhere — there's far less profit margin in those products.

You, personally, might be willing to pay top-dollar for a high-quality software-only solution — then again, maybe you're just kidding yourself — but there aren't many like you. If there were, Logic would still cost $1000.

Quote:
it's just a matter of time (and it's happening quickly as we see how many studios are closing down) before most (if not all) commercial albums are recorded and mixed in someone's home studio on a native & maybe DSP combo system
Could be. Smaller, smarter studios is another trend, but you can't cut costs down to zero. The one cost factor that can't be penetrated for a professional is that people producing records for a living actually have to make a living — that part of the overhead can't really be made any smaller. But that's as much a problem for a guy like you as it is for the studios.

Quote:
with the likes of powercore and UAD, pro tools hardware is becoming ever more redundant as a DSP platform.
Again, that's just talking about total DSP horsepower, which no longer is an issue. Back in 2002, we had UAD-1, we had PowerCore, and we had Pro Tools HD. Six years later, nothing has really changed — lots of folks happily use UAD-1 but it hasn't taken over the market by a long stretch.

Quote:
then several years down the line, they make the hardware obsolete. i'm surprised my MBOX1 still works with the current software.
This is a fiction. TDM hardware has stayed viable far longer than native hardware. Don't be surprised about the Mbox, Digidesign probably makes about the same money selling you an upgrade of PTLE as they would on a new Mbox mini.

Bottom line, whatever your complaints, the awful truth is that the market will not support the kind of mid-range system people claim Digidesign should sell instead of HD.

JSL
Old 9th September 2008
  #96
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solidstate's Avatar
 

So.. what do guys think?Mr. CEO wrote the letter cuz they're ready to fire some next gen pro tools hardware/ software @ AES or winter namm?
Old 10th September 2008
  #97
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Quote:
You, personally, might be willing to pay top-dollar for a high-quality software-only solution — then again, maybe you're just kidding yourself — but there aren't many like you. If there were, Logic would still cost $1000.
I think Logic was selling fine when they dropped the price...I believe that they did that to sell more computers.

Nuendo seems to be doing well, and it still sells for about two grand...
Old 10th September 2008
  #98
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T_R_S's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by macleodgrant View Post
anyways, digi know all this and there's some good stuff coming from them soon. let's hope it's what we're waiting for. i would try it!
It will be high end and it will be expensive.
Old 25th September 2008
  #99
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nativeaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jslevin View Post

An Accel card is not remotely the same as a Core card. The whole system is basically on the Core card. An Accel card is just a spare engine.
Have another look.

Quote:
Furthermore, they list for $5000, not $2000
What I wrote was about what they listed for if sold as a part of a bundle (meaning eg. a HD3 bundle), but you are right; the prices have increased, and Digi is also selling a Expansion Chassis at a very high price now. This doesn't make much of a difference re. what we discussed, and Digidesign will present "the new Pro Tools" in a week or two, so we'll soon know what their next move will be (unless this is only a software update).

Maybe there will be dramatic changes, or maybe those who think that HD systems are fine as they are and don't need performance/price changes are right. Some rumors say that there will be no hardware updates this year. I have no idea, and have moved over to a 'bedroom DAW' anyway, with no plans about going TDM again. :-)

Quote:
Protools 5.1 ? Direct Connect ??? that software is 6-7 years old direct connect is long gone .... I fail to see want that that has to do with what is going on with todays technology.
The point wasn't the version number, it was the latency number in milliseconds and how perceivable 8-9 ms is compared with the latency roundtrip in current native systems.
Old 26th September 2008
  #100
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Beyersound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir.Audio View Post


Once again, it happens. People record their own stuff, hire someone to mix. I'm taking on this project because it's great for me plus I love the band. Plus, it's superbly recorded by someone who actually knows their stuff and has damn good gear.

They've got this Beatlesque n B-Boys vocals and strings stuff all over.

First three songs, over the 60 track counts. One even 91. This is raw track count, no bussing. Second album from an indie band that were highly appraised for their first ablum, but their promo sucked so bad they were unable to surf the press-acclaimal-wave.

Can't wait to get my ears dirty.

I would love the power of Digi by my side, but once more I am forced to go elsewhere to mix. I am currently on my second gen. SW upgrade straight to Steinberg.

So again, whoever thinks Digi isn't extorquing HW sales out of their SW department is insane.

I find no justification for their pricings, period.

I find no justification for their integration, period.

Like many, wanting to expand and grow, HD seems complete and utter waste of valuable resources.

Technology moves so fast that in current day and ages, locking SW to HW is ludicrous.

As is ludicrous when someone forces you a secondary product because you really need the first.

I need a full on Protools because it is my fav. DAW. - that reason alone should be Digi's moto, because people like it.

I dont need their HW at all as prefer all 3rd parties.

Digi will loose their market pretty damn quick with the around-the-corner 64bit era. IMHO, their only hope to survive is dropping the damn interface/dongle promiscuity.

Multi scaled optioned SW ? - Within the first 30 seconds I would drop everything and buy their fullest SW option!


.... no ADC just cracks me up in their LE line. Do they just want to make it difficuly for people to make good music on their own? I mean, I do understand that this is actually bad for our line of business, but f*ck it, I just want to hear good music coming from EVERYWHERE, despite whoever f*cking records it or how. And anyway, on the LE market, they are not top dog. (as far as I know...) - it just doesnt make sense.
+1!!!!!!!!! You made a great point that locking hardware to software is ludicrous. You can't choose the pricepoint to fit your budget or taste. Even the 48 bit fixed point format is obsolete. The floating point systems, even 32 bit have much more headroom(pretty much unlimited). Wait til those are upgraded soon!
Old 24th January 2014
  #101
Gear Head
 

Just Once:

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_R_S View Post
Because there is no money in Software sales.
I have used Digidesign software since 1986 (QSheet) until Digidesign started selling hardware they never became a viable company. There are dozens reasons why Protools software goes with Digidesign hardware.
1) Driver/Hardrware support and programming
2) Software with features that direct access hardware
3) No real cash income from selling just software.

Apple does not just sell operating systems just like Digi does sell hardware
Protools LE is entry level software don't expect flagship features on it.
Just as an iMac does not have the features of a Mac Pro.
If HD is too expensive you should charge more.
If your job pays $5.00 an hour you probably can';t afford that brand new Lexus SUV.
People seem to have to no problems buying Neve and Pultec EQ's for 5K or more.
If you charge 500-1K/day for your work you will probably find that would no problem affording HD.
Six years later, Reading this out of boredom.

Why is it so unattainable to get working 24x24 black box that runs on an Open lic OS (red hat, Ubuntu, core 10/11 etc?)
Old 15th February 2014
  #102
Hey AVID ! I have a great Idea.

Why don't you set up a Booth at AES and instead of selling us your new "Hardware, Software song and Dance that still isn't up to date for Producers" INSTEAD, have the CUSTOMERS walk on stage while YOU SIT...and and we will let YOU GUYS KNOW WHAT WE WANT and NEED. Sort of a "reverse" presentation? get it?


While you guys sit there with I Pads and take notes. then go home and MAKE IT HAPPEN. What a novel Idea. And for GODS SAKES please get better MIDI implementation. Take some notes from Ableton Live and get some YOUNG PEOPLE in your R&D team.


Thank you
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