The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Auto-Tune Evo (Auto-Tune 6) Amp Sim & Guitar Effects Plugins
Old 27th August 2008
  #31
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMWS View Post

High end mic + Melodyne = Low end mic

I hope they´ll get this audio quality problem fixed soon, but I guess their too busy to work on with revolutional features like "direct note access"... like a pimped up car with all sorts of features, but "oh, we forgot the steering wheel!".
Old 27th August 2008
  #32
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Yeah, mister "golden ears"...there are people that know what a tradeoff towards an improved vocalist performance means for a song. It's not only about pitch, but also about time.
I´m not sure if I totally understood your point, but I guess you are willing to trade littlebit of the audio quality to improve the pitch? And you are also willing to settle for just "ok vocaltakes" and make them good with Melodyne to save time?

Well I have a different view, that´s all. I´m willing to take few extra vocal takes to get a great take which is already in tune and then if pitch correction is still needed, I use AT to fix those little things. (AT doesn´t destroy the audio quality, but of course it can only do small corrections, not like Melodyne, but that´s ok for me, ´cause I take the good vocal take in the first place).
To me working with Melodyne is also slow, compared to AT, so I don´t think it´s thaaat much time saved. So you will only get ok takes fixed with Melodyne and lost the audio quality. I just don´t want to kill the audio quality with Melodyne. In few very rare cases I´ve had to though.

So I´m not saying Melodyne is useless. It has huge potential, but this audio quality loss problem is like turd in a punchbowl. If they´d get that fixed, I´d probably switched using it over AT. But for now, this is unacceptable.
Old 27th August 2008
  #33
Lives for gear
i don't think melodyne is that bad. I use it exclusively because I hate the AT interface so much.
I watched a producer tune vocals for a platinum record using melodyne. If it's good enough for him...I think I'll stick with it
Old 10th October 2008
  #34
Gear Addict
 
Max The Dog's Avatar
 

Has anyone noticed any weird bugs using auto tune EVO? I'm just starting to use it, I like it, by the way. I think I just lost about 10 minutes of work in graph mode. It just disappeared, but I'm not 100 % sure i was not my fault...
Old 11th October 2008
  #35
Lives for gear
 
tobymusic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMWS View Post
I´m not sure if I totally understood your point, but I guess you are willing to trade littlebit of the audio quality to improve the pitch? And you are also willing to settle for just "ok vocaltakes" and make them good with Melodyne to save time?
No, I though it was rather easy to understand:

I work with the vocal talent to get the best vocal performance the talent can deliver. We all know that still, there will always be little things that need to be corrected.

Now the pitch correction in AT in automatic mode affects sustained notes more heavily than short transition notes, which is in my opinion completely WRONG, as in a good performance the sustained notes will probably have a good intonation too. Short transition note can still be off pitch considerably, and even if you can't really name it, everybody will hear it. AT however misses those unless you use a retune speed of 10 which sounds insane.
In AT graphic mode, Melodyne or Waves Tune you can choose to correct only certain notes, which is great, but the workflow of Auto-Tune in graphic mode is stone age to me.

Now the other factor that is important to get a GREAT performance is TIMING. Being able to correct the timing of vocal performances (and not just cutting and moving audio, also stretching and time compression of words, syllables and the likes) is a major leap forward. Only Melodyne will do this.

So if i have to decide between an o.k. performance that sounds like your $5000 microphone and a GREAT performance that sounds like a $500 mic, I'll go for the great performance, thank you.

Toby
Old 11th October 2008
  #36
I'm using AT (now EVO) since a number of years always in graphic mode. Usually I analyze the whole final vocal comp and then correct it. I've always tried to know, in the areas of the take where there's no correction required, does the plugin affect the signal in some way or is it just as if it was in bypass mode ?
Old 13th October 2008
  #37
Gear Addict
 
BobbyPeru's Avatar
 

I decided to upgrade from AT4 to EVO. After using it for a couple weeks now, I have to say that this is an AMAZING upgrade!!!

This is way easier to use than AT4. The "Melodyn" mode is super fast for anyone doing graphic AT'ing. I pretty much only use AT in Graphic and this seriously cuts repairing times for me in half.

It also sounds much more natural and the integrity of the signal seems intact more.

My vocal chain is usually BLUE Bottle w/B6 or B7 or a Neumann 149 through any number of high end mic pre's. I showed it to another independent engineer working at my place and he was blown away and he was using AT5.

Sweet!!

Bobby Peru
Milwaukee, WI
Old 15th October 2008
  #38
Gear Maniac
 
Jenz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tobymusic View Post

Now the other factor that is important to get a GREAT performance is TIMING. Being able to correct the timing of vocal performances (and not just cutting and moving audio, also stretching and time compression of words, syllables and the likes) is a major leap forward. Only Melodyne will do this.

Toby
I don't think Melodyne sounds good enough to use, 99% of the times. And editing, why not do that in your DAW? Periodic editing will render no artifacts. Timing editing in Melodyne will only screw up the sound even more. How do you do with the "sss" sounds? Sometimes it doesn't help to cut them away from Melodynes correction curve. Hopefully EVO can deliver a Meldyne thingie that sounds good (have to be SOME reason it took them so long?), but if not i'm good with graphic editing. A bigger window will help my day though.

I'd be the first one to use Melodyne if it would have sounded just a but better and leaving everything non-pitched intact, including a smart function for avoiding screwing with the essess.
Old 15th October 2008
  #39
Gear Maniac
 
Kirk D's Avatar
 

I upgraded to EVO and whilst it is a vast improvement interface and feature-wise, I have had to go back to using AT5 due to EVO creating pops and weird low frequency thumps on certain consonants.

I'm using Logic 8, OS 10.5 - latest versions.

anybody else notice this? Check on headphones with a decent D/A. Processing the same piece of audio with AT5 works fine, so its definitely the upgrade.
Old 15th October 2008
  #40
Gear Addict
 
Max The Dog's Avatar
 

it does seem that AT5 still does some things better than EVO. I tried to tune a whistle track, I know that is weird, but have you ever tried to whistle in tune? My lips must be weak. Anyway, Evo would not track the Whistling. AT5 did it, but not really well.
Old 13th November 2008
  #41
Here for the gear
 

definite issues....

Evo has some great updates from 5, especially in graphical mode. Steamlines my workflow a good deal, making time-consuming fixes a little less so (anyone familiar with 5 and graphical mode, read over the new features; they WILL get you excited). And it seems to sound a bit better, especially with formant mode enabled. Dunno about auto mode (never use it), and I haven't tried pitch shifting to make harmonies yet (supposedly it works better/they sound better in Evo than in 5).

HOWEVER, there's a big glitch (already alluded to in this thread) for RTAS users that undermines all of these updates: it creates a ridiculously unacceptable amount of delay on the track where its instantiated. I suppose this is okay if you're using it in Audiosuite mode (which is less user-friendly and even MORE time consuming IMHO...) or using auto mode and leaving it on the track for the duration of the mix (an inefficient use of memory, and it creates seemingly random audible artifacts on mixdown), but neither of these methods suit me too well. I generally instantiate AT on a track with the untuned audio. From there I bus it to another track with a copy of the untuned audio. Then I tune in AT where needed and record the tuned sections to the copy track. This gives me a permanently tuned comp, leaving the untuned audio untouched (in case I made an error or decide later I don't like the edit), and allows me to disable the plug-in when I'm done and save memory. It's very much the most effective and efficient use of AT IMHO, and allows for far more transparent tuning. Honestly, when I do it this way (the right way) you're NOT going to hear it. It's misuse of the plug-in (specfically, misuse of auto mode) that results in 99.9% of the audible "effects" and artifacts. The only time you should "hear" Autotune is when it's purposefully being used as an effect (which should increase exponentially with the recent release of Autotune efx; oh boy....).

This delay issue obviously has to be a glitch that Antares missed and are planning to fix (although no word from them yet, but I'll post if/when I find something out). Otherwise, why even bother making an RTAS version, knowing full well that PT LE & M-Powered do not have ADC (wonder if they will in PT 8...? ). Would pretty much make it a waste of $130. Until they do fix it (SOON I hope...?), it's back to AT5 for me.

Moral of the story: NEVER buy software upgrades immediately after they're released. Wait long enough for the inevitable bug fixes to be released first, and then upgrade. Unless you like being a bug tester....
I normally follow that logic. Just got a little too excited about the new features I guess....

Sure did use a whole bunch of abbreviations in this post.... Ah, what the hell: WTFROFLCOPTERBBQLMAOFTW. Now I'm done. heh
Old 13th November 2008
  #42
Gear Nut
 
galaga's Avatar
 

Evo has 1380 samples of latency using RTAS in PT LE. Not sure what the original AT had. But this is really noticeable. I otherwise like it though.
Old 13th November 2008
  #43
Registered User
 

Cool

Is it just me, or does Autotune sound worse (more like a computer...kinda) with every newer version... I don't know, like the tool, but there is a real need for something that corrects the pitch without changing the actual sound of the singer.
Old 13th November 2008
  #44
Lives for gear
Evo FS

sorry to interrupt but i have an AT 6 Evo for sale. PM me if interested. bought it new on line.

i'm not sure how to transfer ilok licenses but if you PM me i'm sure i can find out how. make me an offer i can't refuse.

thank you.
Old 15th November 2008
  #45
Here for the gear
 

update on Evo "glitch"

As I feared, it looks like the "glitch" isn't really a glitch after all. Michael from Antares tech says thus:

"You may want to request ADC from Digidesign since this is out of our
control. The latency is necessary for the formant, throat and pitch shift
functions. If you really don't like the feature, it is no problem for
us to arrange to get you a refund."

He also provided me with a link to a helpful article on dealing with PT LE and M-Powered's lack of ADC:

ProTools Corner By Brian White : audioMIDI.com

Honestly, I'm seriously considering the refund. Having to add a step of moving each tuned section by whatever number of samples adds yet more hassle to an already tedious time-consuming process. The new features are great, but maybe not that great. I'll play with it a little more before I decide.

Although seriously, why don't those GREEDY BASTARDS at digidesign simply include some of the now very common features (included standard in most other DAWs) such as ADC in LE and M-Powered? (maybe because of the aforementioned fact of them being GREEDY BASTARDS). I'm sure PT 8 won't change a damn thing as far as that's concerned either (more tracks; whoop-te-DAMN-do...). Maybe now is a great time for me to make that full switch to Logic Pro 8. If nothing else use PT for editing and then mix everything in Logic. That's sounding more and more AND MORE like a GREAT idea every day.... Sorry. Digressing into a post better suited for the "rants" threads I guess....
Old 15th November 2008
  #46
16942
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaTone View Post
Is it just me, or does Autotune sound worse (more like a computer...kinda) with every newer version... I don't know, like the tool, but there is a real need for something that corrects the pitch without changing the actual sound of the singer.

Actually, I think it sounds better with each new version.
Old 15th November 2008
  #47
Lives for gear
 
audiothings's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbohn View Post
I think many would argue that it's use as the beginning of the downfall of good music.
i would agree with you, other than the feeling that it is not the "beginning". IMHO, the beginning started decades ago, and FYI I am not that many decades old, tho' (i think) i'm still a luddite in many ways

BTW, what is "good" music?

ta,
Old 16th November 2008
  #48
Lives for gear
 
Gemylon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaTone View Post
I still think it shouldn't do anything to the tone of the voice though....

Absolutely true.


Lets hope the new and upcoming Melodyne
will bring us a more natural sound....


G
Old 16th November 2008
  #49
Gear Addict
 
soypancho's Avatar
 

I bought Autotune EFX today. I'm a Melodyne guy for pitch but the Cher thing is something I like to have in my toolbox and I could never justify the price of the full Autotune. It came with an iLok
Old 28th November 2008
  #50
Gear Head
 

Would the mellowmuse ata resolve the problem with the autotune evo latency in Pro tools le and mpower?

I also need to know cause I am thinking about getting Auto tune evo tomorrow in the store and they don't sell 5 anymore, and melodyne plugin has that low quality noise factor.


Mellowmuse Software
Old 28th November 2008
  #51
Gear Nut
 
galaga's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Musicman2008 View Post
Would the mellowmuse ata resolve the problem with the autotune evo latency in Pro tools le and mpower?

I also need to know cause I am thinking about getting Auto tune evo tomorrow in the store and they don't sell 5 anymore, and melodyne plugin has that low quality noise factor.


Mellowmuse Software

Yes. It compensates nicely on my setup. I can let plugs like Waves SSL get by with their 1 sample of delay. But Evo's 1360 is just a bit much. Other than by nudging tracks back 1360 samples, I wouldn't dare use Evo in PT LE without Mellowmuse ATA.
Old 29th November 2008
  #52
Gear Head
 

Hey thanks for the reply on the thread.

What is your work flow with auto tune evo. I have mpower and thinking about switching to le (same thing though lol)
how do you use use Auto tune evo on your vocals and how do you deal with the latency.
I have not yet purchased Mellomuse ATA.
So how does it work with auto tune evo. How do you edit the vocals in perfect sync?
Im sorry for asking you all this but this will really help me realize if Evo will work with my set up and not be a pain and never work.



This question is open to anyone else that has Auto tune and Mellowmuse on Pro tools mpower or le.

Thanks in advance.
Old 1st December 2008
  #53
Gear Nut
 
galaga's Avatar
 

OK......I'd like to retract my previous statement, at least in part, about Evo and Mellowmuse ATA. It DOES compensate. But unless I'm not doing this correctly, using graphic mode is a bit tedious. Everytime I need to ping ATA and it refigures, it knocks the audio out of sync with what's been loaded into the graphic window. I've been having to either make sure I'm completely done adding plugins and have ATA set before doing anything graphic in Evo or printing the tuning through Audiosuite before going further with a mix.

Now, it's no big deal. I still like ATA. And I still like Evo. And it's certainly possible I just haven't thought this through or have something wrong. Apologies if that's true.........just thinking out loud and clarifying things a bit.
Old 2nd December 2008
  #54
Gear Head
 

Hey can someone answer quickly cause I am about to open Auto tune Evo.

If I open Evo and the latency is to much to actually work with in Pro tools Mpower even with Mellowmuse then can I go to Antares website and down grade to Auto tune 5?

Remember I bought evo in the box this is not an upgrade, But I want to know If I can down grade to 5 if Evo's latency is too much to work with.

Also does anyone know places that still sell Auto tune 5 or is any one here selling auto tune 5 and how much?

Or do think Antares will try to help us all out and make a patch that lowers the latency on the plugin by giving us the option of taking away the throat and formant control.
I heard the added latency is caused by the throat and formant control, so if we could bypass them then the latency should be reasonable for Pro tools mpower and Le.

Please answer quick I really need to start working on this project and need to know if I should open Evo right now?

Thank you in advance.
Old 2nd December 2008
  #55
Lives for gear
 
otobianki74's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Musicman2008 View Post
Hey can someone answer quickly cause I am about to open Auto tune Evo.

If I open Evo and the latency is to much to actually work with in Pro tools Mpower even with Mellowmuse then can I go to Antares website and down grade to Auto tune 5?

Remember I bought evo in the box this is not an upgrade, But I want to know If I can down grade to 5 if Evo's latency is too much to work with.

Also does anyone know places that still sell Auto tune 5 or is any one here selling auto tune 5 and how much?

Or do think Antares will try to help us all out and make a patch that lowers the latency on the plugin by giving us the option of taking away the throat and formant control.
I heard the added latency is caused by the throat and formant control, so if we could bypass them then the latency should be reasonable for Pro tools mpower and Le.

Please answer quick I really need to start working on this project and need to know if I should open Evo right now?

Thank you in advance.
smells like a question for antares tech support:

[email protected]

oto
Old 3rd December 2008
  #56
Gear Nut
 
galaga's Avatar
 

When I installed Evo, it also installed a regular version of Auto Tune. Both versions work. I was thinking regular AT came along with Evo. However, do I have them both only because I had AT to begin with and just did an upgrade to Evo? Installing Evo removed the ilok asset for AT and replaced it with one for Evo but anything with regular AT still works, too. Both Evo and AT show up as separate plugs in the plugin menu. Sometimes, just for quick easy tunings or when loading up old sessions, I just use the regular AT instead of Evo. It has the same latency it always had.
Old 4th December 2008
  #57
Gear Maniac
 
vocomotion's Avatar
 

They intentionally made it so both AT5 and Evo can sit side-by-side because of the way the data is stored. If you have old sessions that already have graphical corrections in AT5, you need to still use AT5. For new things, you can use Evo.

I guess they could've found a way to automatically convert that data from AT5 to Evo...hmmm...maybe not.

I'm digging Evo so far. I love the Make Notes button :-) It's not foolproof, but can quickly get you going and then you tweak what it come up with.

--> freddie
Old 10th December 2008
  #58
Gear Head
 

So if Evo has to much latency and I have the registered license for Evo then someone can lend me the Auto tune 5 disk and I can install it and use my Evo license with it, and use Auto tune 5 for all my projects until Antares finds a way to lower the plugin delay on Evo?
Old 11th December 2008
  #59
Gear Head
 

Any one?
Old 31st March 2009
  #60
Lives for gear
 
AcoosticZoo's Avatar
Waves Tune Vs Autotune EVO

Quote:
Originally Posted by World Studios View Post
Golden monitors help :-)

I found Waves Tune made the sound a lot duller as well. So much, I haven't used it for years. Mabye they have improved on it by now? Added a steering wheel? Might have to try the old dog again.

Thing is, you might not notice the deterioration if you process a whole take, but if you try to tune a word or two you REALLY hear how the line sounds duller, like you pasted in another take from another session on a cheaper mic/pre/converter.
Me too, I noticed that Wave Tune V6 (lite) (Latest 2009 Release) does indeed dull the sound somewhat. My guess is it alters the transients in a funny way when pitch shifting. I wonder if it uses the same pitch shifting algorithm as Waves Pitch Shifter?

Josef Horhay
Mixer
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Keyflo / Rap + Hip Hop engineering and production
88
FormulaReed / So much gear, so little time
4
EvilE / So much gear, so little time
4
Sounds Great / So much gear, so little time
100
XHipHop / So much gear, so little time
7

Forum Jump
Forum Jump