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NEW!! Digidesign C24 Controller
Old 21st January 2008
  #151
Gear Addict
 
skygod's Avatar
The Case for Insanity Continues

This thread just reinforces everything I've felt about digidesign for some years now. They don't understand it, nor will they ever get it either. $7K to $10K huh?
Really? And still no native interface with Nuendo, or Logic, or Cakewalk, or Ambelton etc. Faaking light is always on up there in the ivory tower and nobody is home as usual.

Their software is probably great, their TDM system is probably great, it is all probably as software elegant as software GUI gets, but you knowwhat folks, the commentators said it all all over again in this thread. Digi cannot be masters of both the 'forced' platform and the I/O with such marvelous 30+ years of I/O on the market to plug into instead. Focusrite standards huh? Why are you always selling yourself short from a total market cross platform integration HUI/GUI layer?

Even the Intel-Windows community established ISO community layers that permit all integrated software packages now to communicate effectively at the OS porting levels. Like Mr. Massenburg said in a live presentation once upon a time, "Maybe the industry sold itself short at 16:44.1, 16:48...." I cannot think of a better analogy DIGI.

Wouldn't a control 16 or 24 or 32 or 48 or 64 surface w/o preamps and an AES /TDIF/ ADAT SMUX layer to route our already invested Symphonys, or 2882s, or FF800s, or Aurora Lynxs' or Lavry or Alesis HD24XR or RADAR Nyquist or S-Nyquist instead have been nicer with the DIDGI 'whatever platform' that their proprietary software must see to even boot up than charging an addtional $2500-$4500 for crap preamps included in the public screwing?

I totally concur. $3K-$3.5K tops should have been the market price and even I, the great DIGI HATER might have come in and taken a swim and apologoized publicly had it all worked out to integrate what I've already invested in in Native.

Y'know what? Russ Long's review today @ Apogee Symphony Recording System, by Russ Long
and I really like his closing comments:

"I'm a long time Pro Tools user and, quite frankly, I haven't considered switching platforms…until now. Logic Pro 7.2 coupled with the Symphony System is reasonably priced for any audio professional and it has no major faults that I can find. Apple's Final Cut Pro has literally swiped Avid's golden crown of film and video editing over the last few years, and now it appears that Logic Pro teamed with the Apogee Symphony System could make it a double play. The Symphony System paired with with Logic (or Cubase, or Digital Performer, etc.) matches the performance and surpasses the audio quality of Pro Tools|HD, while cutting the price virtually in half. Anyone in the market for a high-end DAW should give the Symphony System top consideration."

I think I'm gonna buy a Symphony system instead with a Jazz Mutant DEXTER DIGITAL AUDIO WORKSTATION controller and a Mercenary 2.6 laptop with 32 I/O AD-DA channels of 16X and tout around with my laptop and briefcace DAW and keep on native with Logic and Nuendo and UAD and all the other great stuff out there. I hope Symphony-Logic 8 buries you, hey, but don't take it personally ... it's just business.

As a wise friend said to me back in the Vietnam era days ...
"War is hell ... but peace is a motherfvvker!"

Have a nice day fuuck

~skygod~
Old 23rd January 2008
  #152
Lives for gear
 
bongo's Avatar
I ordered a C24 in November. I bought a Ramsa on Ebay to do the trade in thing. I sold my Control 24 in December because I thought I would get the C24 by then. It was back ordered.


When I first saw the C24, I thought this is just a Control 24 with a cosmetic make over, which it basically is. But I was fine with my Control 24 and this would be a good excuse to redo my control room and it probably wouldn't have the power supply problems. So I went with it.

The weeks I went without a control surface and the way Digi basically screwed by small dealer got me pissed about their lame product and yesterday I cancelled my order.

I ordered the Euphonix Artist Series. Tomorrow I am going to configure Logic to my TDM system (which I already own because I love Waveburner). If I can work with it, I'm going to sell my HD system and go with the Apogee Symphony.

Euphonix and Logic seems to be thinking more about the the future than Digi is. I'm looking to the future also.

People don't come to my studio because I run Pro Tools. So if I can work in Logic, goodbye Digi.

Anyone want to buy a Ramsa for the trade in? $300!




`
Old 23rd January 2008
  #153
Lives for gear
 
MJGreene Audio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bongo View Post
I ordered a C24 in November. I bought a Ramsa on Ebay to do the trade in thing. I sold my Control 24 in December because I thought I would get the C24 by then. It was back ordered.


When I first saw the C24, I thought this is just a Control 24 with a cosmetic make over, which it basically is. But I was fine with my Control 24 and this would be a good excuse to redo my control room and it probably wouldn't have the power supply problems. So I went with it.

The weeks I went without a control surface and the way Digi basically screwed by small dealer got me pissed about their lame product and yesterday I cancelled my order.

I ordered the Euphonix Artist Series. Tomorrow I am going to configure Logic to my TDM system (which I already own because I love Waveburner). If I can work with it, I'm going to sell my HD system and go with the Apogee Symphony.

Euphonix and Logic seems to be thinking more about the the future than Digi is. I'm looking to the future also.

People don't come to my studio because I run Pro Tools. So if I can work in Logic, goodbye Digi.

Anyone want to buy a Ramsa for the trade in? $300!




`
Kent,
That is really to bad. I am really curious to see where you end up with all of this. Please keep us updated as things progress and also on the quality of the new Euphonix controller.

It will be interesting to see how it all works out for you.

Michael Greene
Old 24th January 2008
  #154
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
This thread just reinforces everything I've felt about digidesign for some years now. They don't understand it, nor will they ever get it either. $7K to $10K huh?
Really? And still no native interface with Nuendo, or Logic, or Cakewalk, or Ambelton etc.
I realize no company will ever be all things to all people, and that many people will never like Digidesign, but what is "it" that they don't understand? Obviously, despite how many vocal people feel here, things seem to be working out well for them. And compatibility with other platoforms has never really been a part of Digidesign's business strategy...

Quote:
Wouldn't a control 16 or 24 or 32 or 48 or 64 surface w/o preamps and an AES /TDIF/ ADAT SMUX layer to route our already invested Symphonys, or 2882s, or FF800s, or Aurora Lynxs' or Lavry or Alesis HD24XR or RADAR Nyquist or S-Nyquist instead have been nicer with the DIDGI 'whatever platform' that their proprietary software must see to even boot up than charging an addtional $2500-$4500 for crap preamps included in the public screwing?
I highly doubt that the cost of adding the preamps to the board is even close to $2500, and is probably less than half of that. The preamp in the Control 24 were basically the same as those in the Octopre, which is an $800 box...so when you take the preamps out of the box and do away with the cost of the chassis, power supply, etc it's a fairly insignificant cost. These preamps are Digidesign's own design so they don't even have to pay any royalties to Focusrite for them. The digital routing you're asking about is part of Digidesign's interfaces so isn't necessary to put on the control surface. The preamps are there because, as evidenced by their trade-in program, the idea is that this can be dropped in as a replacement for a more traditional mixer in a studio.

What you are describing seems to be one of the many digital mixers on the market, so why are you so upset that this board isn't one of those?

Quote:
The weeks I went without a control surface and the way Digi basically screwed by small dealer got me pissed about their lame product and yesterday I cancelled my order.
Your console was backordered...how is that situation really "screwing" anyone but Digidesign? They're the ones who lost the sale because they couldn't supply the console in time...
Old 24th January 2008
  #155
Lives for gear
 
mixerguy's Avatar
at NAMM I checked out the C24 and the faders, to me, felt laughably bad.

cheap and crappy.

the faders on the Euphonix $999 controller felt better, to me.

FWIIW
Old 24th January 2008
  #156
Lives for gear
 
bongo's Avatar
They were busy filling orders for bigger dealers instead of filling his. He was screwed out of a sale.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Duardo View Post
Your console was backordered...how is that situation really "screwing" anyone but Digidesign? They're the ones who lost the sale because they couldn't supply the console in time...
Old 24th January 2008
  #157
Deleted 1a30a04
Guest
I've gotten a lot of good use out of my Control-24. While I seriously considered
getting a C-24 with the trade-in, it was still around $6k when all was said
and done. Other than the ergonomic issues of the up-curve, the only
major difference are the mic-pres .. and I decided for 6k I could upgrade the
mic-pres to a higher level by supplementing my existing Control-24 as
opposed to upgrading.

For new buyers, the C24 is a good tool and is a nice refresh for a tried
and true workhorse product. Contrary to the previous post, I didn't find
the knobs, buttons or faders to feel cheap at all. The new scribble strips
and monitoring section are very nice upgrades.

I know Digi had some initial production delays that frustrated some early
buyers .. I know the feeling .. my 003 took a while to make it.

jeff
Old 28th January 2008
  #158
Gear Maniac
 
Petrusha's Avatar
 

Here is 2nd review of the c24!
Old 7th February 2008
  #159
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jindrich View Post
I really love PTHD and I think it's the best and most stable DAW out there. Period.

That said, with the current offerings from apogee, neve, portico, tonelux...etc, and the recent release of the new Logic Studio 8, which adresses all of the iLogic behaviours that used to drive me and many AEs MAD, the time has come for Digidesign to wake up and smell the coffee.

Am I the only one thinking like this?
jindrich,

I agree with you, but your argument with the Soundcraft board is a better argument that this one.... 10 years from now, someone will be using that Soundcarft board because it isn't tied to some OS or computer that doesn't exist anymore.

I am a devoted PTFD user, but enough is enough. I like HARDWARE stuff that works by itself. (I bought my GLM mic pres over 10 years ago)...

Look at all of those people who bought a Fairchild Limiter when it was new - for years it was used as a doorstop - a long discarded device until one day it was rediscovered and now is worth $$$. You can bet your life that in 10 years, the C/24 won't be available - and if left up to DD, it won't be valuable either (like the Procontrol that I have).

So, at this time, I would rather buy music instruments or some amazing obscure analog device that won't be around for long (like 4 Wunder mic pres) - at least these pieces will be worth something in 10 years...!

gc
Old 7th February 2008
  #160
Lives for gear
 
Tony Shepperd's Avatar
But GC the problems you bring up are not unique to Digidesign.

How many people bought a $200,000 Sony 3348 or a $250,000 or more Synclavier.
Or even worse, some people paid $750,000 for a Neve Capricorn.

And what are these systems worth now?
Look it's simple, you make a plan, invest in what you know you can amortize and make your money.
Old 7th February 2008
  #161
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Farout's Avatar
 

kewl - Tony Sheppard.

Love your tutorial.


(sorry to get off-topic)
Old 7th February 2008
  #162
Here for the gear
 

Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post
But GC the problems you bring up are not unique to Digidesign.
Tony,

True - the issue is not unique to Digidesign - but it is unique to software products. The difference between them and "free standing products" is that you can still use these above-listed products because they were never "outdated by OS upgrades".

I am saying that the difference is that you can own a PT system for years, but the aging issue is THE COMPUTER - which is designed to live a finite life and then be upgraded. At some point, having old PT hardware becomes an issue because it is designed to go with a soon-to-be outdated Apple computer (such as the PCIe-PCIx card issue).
Quote:
How many people bought a $200,000 Sony 3348 or a $250,000 or more Synclavier.
Or even worse, some people paid $750,000 for a Neve Capricorn.
These are actually great examples of my side of the argument! Essentially, hardware doesn't turn into a pumpkin at midnight! I still have a Synclavier - it cost $$$ in the '80s, but I still use it - 18 years after the company had gone away. (I am not alone with this one, BTW - the Synclavier has been used on at least one award-winning project in each of the last several years - from Industrial Light & Magic's film sound effects to film and TV scores). A good investment? The Synclavier isn't ROHS compliant, so it won't self-destruct in ten years like the present day lead-free solder products will. It cost me quite a lot, but over 22 years, it has paid itself back more that 20 times.

Quote:
And what are these systems worth now?
What are these systems worth now? MORE THAN NOTHING! And they can still be used professionally. (I would love to have a NEVE Capricorn, BTW - or the Studer console). Are these bad investments? I am sure that Warner Brothers, Paramount and the other studios who bought these consoles paid them off. I still can't afford them even used!

Quote:
Look it's simple, you make a plan, invest in what you know you can amortize and make your money.
I am a composer, so perhaps our POVs are a little different - I agree in principle with what you are saying - I am one of those who actually pays off my PTHD system before it is time to upgrade, but if DD has decided that I am on my own with my ProControl, then I think that there are better audio investments out there for me than buying a c24....


gary
Old 7th February 2008
  #163
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
True - the issue is not unique to Digidesign - but it is unique to software products. The difference between them and "free standing products" is that you can still use these above-listed products because they were never "outdated by OS upgrades".
You can still use the Digidesign products as well as long as you're using them with a compatible computer and Pro Tools version...which plenty of people still have.

I wouldn't so much say that the issue is unique to software products, but more to digital products in general. But Digidesign's control surfaces are probably more future-proof than most because, unlike digital mixers, they're not limited to specific sampling rates or data formats. If Digidesign decided that their next system would be a DSD-compatible system then their control surfaces could go right along with them, but the digital mixers on the marketplace couldn't (at least, not digitally)...

Quote:
What are these systems worth now? MORE THAN NOTHING! And they can still be used professionally. (I would love to have a NEVE Capricorn, BTW - or the Studer console). Are these bad investments? I am sure that Warner Brothers, Paramount and the other studios who bought these consoles paid them off. I still can't afford them even used!
Sure, they're worth more than nothing, as are Digidesign's control surfaces...but they're not worth much. Everything you say about them holds true for the control surfaces as well...there are tons of Pro Tools III- and Mix-era systems out there, and even if Digidesign does abandon support for certain control surfaces at some point (which they haven't yet) they'll still work with the older systems, which will still be around, just like your Synclavier (but didn't I hear that Sony couldn't give their DASH machines away at their recent liquidation sale?). And I'd imagine that the Digidesign products bought by most commercial facilities paid for themselves quickly. Why else would they have bought them? Not to hopefully resell for a profit five or ten years down the line.

Quote:
This gets right back to the original issue - a GML mic pre is a better investment than a software product from a strictly business investment standpoint.
If you're thinking about it retaining its value down the line then sure, I'd agree...but if you're talking about generating income and paying for itself over and over before resale even becomes an issue then no, I'd disagree.
Old 12th December 2008
  #164
Lives for gear
 
spitfire8898's Avatar
 

Old thread, I know...but FWIW I saw a control 24 go for $1800 on ebay...not too shabby even if it does have crap pre's I won't really use.
Old 14th December 2008
  #165
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DONNX's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mixerguy View Post
at NAMM I checked out the C24 and the faders, to me, felt laughably bad.

cheap and crappy.

the faders on the Euphonix $999 controller felt better, to me.

FWIIW

Made in China
Old 22nd September 2018
  #166
12 years later and my C24 has seen constant daily use... until today, a member of the band I'm producing accidentally knocked out the IEC cord too the power supply from the floor outlet, and after rebooting, it failed to connect to protools. The sub-mixer, monitor controls and all other analog functions connected fine but the display reads "OFFLINE".

Anyone have any ideas? Much appreciated in advance.
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