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VirSyn Reflect - the algorithmic reverb Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 27th August 2007
  #1
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VirSyn Reflect - the algorithmic reverb

REFLECT is an algorithmic reverberation plugin which combines the flexibility of vintage algorithmic reverbs with the sonic quality of convolution based reverbs. The creation of high quality reverb needs a realistic simulation of the important early reflections together with a smooth and colorless reverberation tail. The early reflections are the most important clue for the human ear to get a feeling about the dimension and character of a room. Most algorithmic reverbs offer a number of different algorithms to simulate different natural rooms like chamber, halls or artificial ones like plates. REFLECT uses impulse responses from real acoustic spaces and classical reverb algorithms to emulate their acoustical properties.

Welcome to VirSyn Software Synthesizer

What do you think?
Old 27th August 2007
  #2
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I think it's a blessed evolution. Reminds me of the breakthrough Roland did back in the day with the D-50 synthesizer. They used a short re-synthesized sample for the attack portion of the waveforms and synthesized the rest. I thought it was quite amazing back then.
Old 27th August 2007
  #3
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Reminds me of the now discontinued Wizoo W2.

With a price of EURO 99.- instead of EURO 169.- till September 30th, 2007 it may be a nice addition to my ever growing reverb collection.
Old 27th August 2007
  #4
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sounds pretty dadgum amazing to me. I was about to pull the trigger on VSS3 for my poco, but I might go with this instead.

j
Old 27th August 2007
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayman View Post
sounds pretty dadgum amazing to me. I was about to pull the trigger on VSS3 for my poco, but I might go with this instead.

j
THAT is high praise.

I've not heard the visyn plug yet. Their synths are very precise and I have always felt that they don't sound very musical. However reverbs benefit from transparency and I can imagine that virsyn's expertise would work well in this area.

Am looking for a plug to replace the vss3, I'd be exstatic if this was the one.
Old 27th August 2007
  #6
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anyone tried it? how does it sound? looks nice, but I fear I will be disappointed again! Nothing comes close to my PCM 91 and PCM 81!
Old 27th August 2007
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by semtek View Post
THAT is high praise.

I've not heard the visyn plug yet. Their synths are very precise and I have always felt that they don't sound very musical. However reverbs benefit from transparency and I can imagine that virsyn's expertise would work well in this area.
The lastest edition of Sound on Sound has this to say about the VirSyn Poseidon:

The sound-generation technique used by Poseidon is considered by many — especially those involved in academic synthesis research — to be the ultimate synthesis method. This is because theoretically it can synthesize any possible sound. It's certainly true that a very wide range of sounds is possible with Poseidon. However, a synth is more than just its oscillators. The biggest challenge, and maybe the biggest success of Virsyn's synths, is finding ways to make such an open-ended synthesis technology usable in a real instrument.

It seems that VirSyn uses a well-executed sound engine for his products. Should be good for reverbs too.
Old 28th August 2007
  #8
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Synchrosoft? Damnit!
Old 28th August 2007
  #9
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Farshad's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBlizz View Post
Reminds me of the now discontinued Wizoo W2.

With a price of EURO 99.- instead of EURO 169.- till September 30th, 2007 it may be a nice addition to my ever growing reverb collection.
Another +1 for Wizoo. Sounds great. I sometimes prefer it over Altiverb.
Old 28th August 2007
  #10
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Is there a demo for the reverb?
Old 28th August 2007
  #11
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True North's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBlizz View Post
Reminds me of the now discontinued Wizoo W2.

With a price of EURO 99.- instead of EURO 169.- till September 30th, 2007 it may be a nice addition to my ever growing reverb collection.
WOW - I didn't even know it was discontinued. I use it all the time, its a great sounding reverb.... oh well.
Old 28th August 2007
  #12
t_d
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will be hard to beat VSS3, in my opinion.. it's SO smooth ... it's like reverb without hearing reverb.. just pure space...

but, virsyn is a great company... very small.. (very small!)... friendly and supportive.. i've used their Cube synth for a few years.. they deserve your money... i hope the verb is nice..
Old 28th August 2007
  #13
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Poseidon is an amazing synth with a huge potential and much possibilities. I have a review of it at ProTooler, just search for it there.

The demo for Reflect:
Demo

I haven't tried it yet, hope to get it today.
Old 28th August 2007
  #14
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The sound examples sound nice. Warm and lush.
Definitely something to check out. Don't know the VSS3 though.
Old 28th August 2007
  #15
I've downloaded the demo and briefly tried it;

I like the early reflections, but didn't really like the reverb tails, not as good Wizooverb, but I'm on intelmac now.

I'm gonna try some more...
Old 28th August 2007
  #16
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Farshad's Avatar
 

How does it compare to IK Classik Studio Reverb? It is one of my favorites.
Old 28th August 2007
  #17
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TheSweetener's Avatar
 

Just try for yourself and listen...
Old 29th August 2007
  #18
After some further testing I must say that I like "Reflect" a lot. It scores high on realism. I work a lot in studios with Lexicons and I'm used to this kind of sound, so I had to get used to "Reflect", wich has a more acoustic sound, somewhere in between Algorithmic and Convolution, as one might expect. It seems it only has one algorithm for generating tails though, so they always sound kind of the same to me, but good nonetheless.

I also tested CSR and that one certainly has that Lexicon vibe to it. It may not be a 960, but it's not bad at all.

I might have to get both, first I'll demo the Sonnox reverb and wait for what Breverb will offer before I pull the trigger.
Old 6th September 2007
  #19
Gear Head
 
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Hey!
I have the following problem...and maybe Reflect is my solution..

I used to work on PC first and had SIR as reverb. It's basically just using impulse response files.
So i built up a library with lots of different IRs. From Lexicon etc.
I was really satisfied with what it's doing and basically it was all i needed.

So now i got a new intel mac and need a plugin that does exactly the same.
Virsyn Reflect seems to be one of those IR players...the only thing that confuses me is the synthesis part of it.
Can i turn that off (in case i don't need it and just wanna use the IR files)
Cos the IR samples have all the reverb tails i need...no need (for now) to use some algorith for the reverb tails.

Or is this syntheses part of Reflect just used to "manipulate" the IR reverbs? (like size, decay etc)...


Can someone help me on this? Is Reflect as good as SIR, can i do the same like with SIR?

thanks for your replies!

speak soon!
Old 6th September 2007
  #20
No, it's different than SIR. The early reflections are based on Impulse responses and the tails on Algoritms. The algorithm for the tail is actually a very respectable one and unbelievebly good for the price, but I can't always hear the magic in it I would like. On short rooms it sounds very natural and good, it's not bad on larger spaces, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
Reflect does make it possible to load your own IR's but then interprets them in some way and only uses about 250ms of it for early reflections, and uses the same synthesis for the tail it always does.
If Virsyn included an option to just load in the complete IR and ignore the synthetic tail, I would have have bought it.
Old 6th September 2007
  #21
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Anyone get the demo working without the synchrosoft dongle?
Old 6th September 2007
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
Anyone get the demo working without the synchrosoft dongle?
not going to happen.

I'm in fact quite into the idea of dongles because:

1. It means that you can upgrade your computer, or parts thereof, without wondering whether you'll be offered a new license for the software you run.

2. It means that the software companies can spend their time developing new products, not worrying about copy protection.

3. In the long run I believe that effective copy protection systems will bring down the price of software, as more units will be sold.

4. It means that when you drop $100+ on a plug in you can be sure that it won't subsequently become available to anyone with an internet connection for free.

I do think that the onus lies on software companies to protect their goods (not on users to make the choice), and dongles seem to be the only solution. There is a pain threshold to adding dongle-based software to a setup because it makes you feel less mobile, but then it just becomes second nature.

It's only a shame that they are not open end USB ports - ie that you lose a port as a result. Perhaps in the future they could be wireless or something. It's also a shame that there are competing providers - syncro and ilok. I'd prefer if everything just fit on one.

Anyway I highly reccomend checking this reverb out. I think that it's completely comparable to higher end products like VSS3 and Sonnox. It does have a more limited feature set, but I feel more confident tweaking it as a result. Our perception of reverb comes from our experience of real world situations, and it doesn't really make sense that every paramter should be accessible. They are interdependant, and this is reflected well in the way that Reflect works.
Old 6th September 2007
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by semtek View Post
There is a pain threshold to adding dongle-based software to a setup because it makes you feel less mobile, but then it just becomes second nature.
In my case, dongle protection enables me to be more mobile. I can have the same plug-ins on multiple computers (desktop and laptop) and I carry around a small HD of installers that I can install on any other system without the hassle of re-registering or having to uninstall when I've finished.

I agree with everything else you wrote.
Old 7th September 2007
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted User View Post
In my case, dongle protection enables me to be more mobile. I can have the same plug-ins on multiple computers (desktop and laptop) and I carry around a small HD of installers that I can install on any other system without the hassle of re-registering or having to uninstall when I've finished.

I agree with everything else you wrote.
right, you're correct, that's absolutely true. they do effectively make you more mobile. as long as the major players stick to ilok and syncrosoft (no more please!), i'm all for them.
Old 7th September 2007
  #25
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by semtek View Post

4. It means that when you drop $100+ on a plug in you can be sure that it won't subsequently become available to anyone with an internet connection for free.
I can hardly see any evidence for that ...

it was always claimed that Logic got uncracked after the dongle - you will find enough Logic 5.5 versions out there ..... for PC of course

Also for lots of other stuff - like Korg legacy - I just bought it - but could have got it otherways when I would use a PC .....

I can only see that the devs are not doing their job right and but another inconvenience on the user. The dongle is ok - as long as you do not want to transfer licenses, it gets not stolen or is not broken. Then the trouble starts and there most developers and also those dongle providers say - well, that is your problem user - you wanted to use it, so figure it out.

For Steinberg programs and for Korg it is also the case that the dongle protects is high inefficient in all ways - it slows down the program and does not work for preventing cracks (ok, there is the claim that Cubase 4 was not cracked until now - could be - but you get lots of cracks of Nuendo 3 or Cubase 3 etc. - and they were also protected .... just a matter of time ...)

best
Old 7th September 2007
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctms777 View Post
No, it's different than SIR. The early reflections are based on Impulse responses and the tails on Algoritms. The algorithm for the tail is actually a very respectable one and unbelievebly good for the price, but I can't always hear the magic in it I would like. On short rooms it sounds very natural and good, it's not bad on larger spaces, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
I somehow feel that same (small spaces wonderful, large spaces mixed) - but overall this is quite good considered that most other reverbs do not work for me in the most cases
I think for the great halls without the visual cue the thing is just too natural, there is not the compensation for the lack of the visual cue - which one could get by exaggeration.

For natural reverb - does one need more algorithms? Is it not about air, absorption, reflections/diffusion and size and time? the other stuff (form) is not in the early reflection stuff - so IR, no? Do not know - never really studied such things ....

best
Old 7th September 2007
  #27
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I have used it in some mixes now and I like it. I'm traditionally one of those "reverb hating" guys, but even I have got to admit that they have been getting better. Reflect sounds good for what I've used it, but I haven't done any comparing yet (will do, and will post a review of it on my blog as well when that is done).

BTW, anyone else thinks it's lighter on the CPU than traditional IRs? It seems so to me, but again, I haven't done any real comparing.
Old 7th September 2007
  #28
Gear Addict
 

>>
BTW, anyone else thinks it's lighter on the CPU than traditional IRs? It seems so to me, but again, I haven't done any real comparing.
>>

consums more than Space Designer here, but well, then this might be not a fair comparison .....

I found the CPU consumption to be reasonable ..... on my system about the same as the ArtsAcoustic which is not said to over-consum .....

best
Old 7th September 2007
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steff3 View Post
I can hardly see any evidence for that ...

it was always claimed that Logic got uncracked after the dongle - you will find enough Logic 5.5 versions out there ..... for PC of course

Also for lots of other stuff - like Korg legacy - I just bought it - but could have got it otherways when I would use a PC .....

I can only see that the devs are not doing their job right and but another inconvenience on the user. The dongle is ok - as long as you do not want to transfer licenses, it gets not stolen or is not broken. Then the trouble starts and there most developers and also those dongle providers say - well, that is your problem user - you wanted to use it, so figure it out.

For Steinberg programs and for Korg it is also the case that the dongle protects is high inefficient in all ways - it slows down the program and does not work for preventing cracks (ok, there is the claim that Cubase 4 was not cracked until now - could be - but you get lots of cracks of Nuendo 3 or Cubase 3 etc. - and they were also protected .... just a matter of time ...)

best
Yes, I do I suppose take a Mac-centric view of things. I also agree that they slow the programmes down - the Arturia J8 which I just bought is so much more troublesome than the non-donlge demo version. I also agree that, specifically with iLok in mind, the charges for license transferral are really messed up. Companies charging users hunders of $ to transfer the license is very cheap on their part - one of the reasons I decided against the Waves bundles.

At present I can't really envisage a decent solution, as a user I'm fairly demanding of the software I buy, and I fully expect to be able to use it accross different computers as and when I require. Hence the dongle seems to be the only way. As far as the stealing/breakage thing goes, I fully agree that a better solution should be offered. That is one of the benefits of a software license after all. I'm also less sympathetic to companies who insist on dongles but then don't offer Internet delivery of their products, instead wasting money on pointless packaging.

Does the video industry have similar problems?
Old 7th September 2007
  #30
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by semtek View Post
Yes, I do I suppose take a Mac-centric view of things.
call it like you want I am in Europe here, so a Mac market-share is neglectable ...... most people are using PCs so for someone (like me) who is not actively searching for cracks this is what I get to know ....


Quote:
Originally Posted by semtek View Post
I also agree that, specifically with iLok in mind, the charges for license transferral are really messed up. Companies charging users hunders of $ to transfer the license is very cheap on their part - one of the reasons I decided against the Waves bundles.
Well, Waves is special - so I would not consider them - but with iLok transfer fee is US$25 - with syncrosoft it is getting a new dongle, secured shipping and eventually import taxes ..... which most often is multiple times that of what you have to pay for iLok-transfers.
as a mac user I must say that iLok horrors are far behind - syncrosoft horrors are not that long ago - and with iLok you have your online account - as I understand it that is also a prove of ownership - with syncrosoft you have a dubious online database that says - well, we have the data - but we cannot say if you had a license for the died dongle - if I am not mistaken .....

I also think portability is important .... I have 4 dongles currently - so I am not that much against dongles (I clearly prefer it over system like those offered/obeyed by NI) - I am just against those urban myths that this would be a copy protection that is worth more than the PITA for the legal users and the plastic of that piece of electronic junk.
I cannot see that dongle software does not get cracked - at least not those with the cheap usb-dongles (it seems a bit different for the software with those PCI/PCIe dongles ala UAD, PowerCore - though there you have the urban legend that the processors are needed for processing (they are used, but not needed) - one should thinkt that people who are not believing in Santa Claus would also not believe in that, but ......).

I think the companies should
a) offer fair customer support for their dongled licenses an fair replacement and license transfer policies
b) get the thing efficient (seems mainly a syncrosoft-supporter issue if talking about the speed problems)
c) should maybe use up-to-date technology (bluetooth or something - so during a gig one could carry the dongle around a necklance or something and not leave it unprotected on a USB-port). Also there pace has advantages with 30-days demos .....

But anyways, back to that reverb .......

best
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