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Prophet '08 Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 22nd August 2007
  #31
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Sounds Great's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elak View Post
There is perfect analog drifting and there's old old synth drifting which is annnoying.
Drifting is what gives the analog it's random character and warmth.
nothing wrong with DCO.. I agree. MKS70 and junos are one of the best sounding synths even now for strings , pads and brass.

I had an MKS70 for years and I agree, loved it's sound. However, it had nothing in common with the sound of my Prophet T-8 (similar to a Prophet 5).

I am also wondering how close this can sound to a Prophet 5 while using DCO's.
Old 22nd August 2007
  #32
Gear Maniac
 

Oh man I think I just dfegad my pants!!!

Analogeezer
Old 22nd August 2007
  #33
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Jazzpunk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Great View Post
I am also wondering how close this can sound to a Prophet 5 while using DCO's.
Check the sound clips;

http://www.davesmithinstruments.com/...s/p8/index.php
Old 22nd August 2007
  #34
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Dave Peck's Avatar
 

I noticed that the manual is available for download from the site and I checked it out. A few comments, just IMHO,

the PLUSes:

Three ADSRs, and the third can loop, allowing it to be used as an LFO. All ADSRs have modulatable rates and levels. Yes!

Four LFOs (yes! Why do so many synth manufacturers scrimp on the LFOs???) and all LFOs have modulatable rates and levels.

VCAs have an initial gain control that can be opened to create drone patches.

Polyphonic voice panning with modulation.

The filter can be modulated with an audio rate signal from OSC1 (very cool - not many polysynths can do this, especially not VAs).

The A/B layer function is well thought out. You don't have to worry about changing a patch only to discover that you ruined a "performance" setup that used that patch.

Monophonic and Unison stack modes. Cool.

Includes both a four-channel sequencer AND an arpeggiator. A lot of other synths may give you one or the other, but not both. Nice.

The Poly Chain function. Sure will be handy if/when they introduce a rack version....


The MINUSes:

Only a single lowpass filter per voice. It can be 12 or 24 dB/OCT but it's always lowpass and there's only one. It should have been easy to implement HP/BP/NOTCH functions in the 12dB mode, but nope. And a second filter, with variable parallel/serial routing would have tremendously expanded the synths capabilities. To me, this is the single biggest limiting factor in the synth's voice architecture. Darn it.

No ring modulator. Shucks.

Doesn't appear to have any kind of overdrive control for the filters or VCAs.

There are several portamento modes, but there doesn't appear to be any way to quickly turn it on and off (via footswitch or panel control). You can set it to glide on legato notes only, but a footswitch would be better for momentarily enabling polyphonic chord glides.

For a synth with so many possible mod sources and destinations, the modulation patching seems somewhat limited. Each mod source can only be routed to ONE destination. You can't control filter cutoff + osc 2 sync sweep + LFO3 rate with the same ADSR. A true modulation matrix with 16 or more available connections would have been better, so you could control multiple destinations with the same source or control one destination with several mod sources. You do have a few extra routings in the "Modulators" section but it still doesn't seem to make full use of the available mod capabilities.

But these comments are just based on what I would personally prefer. All in all, it does seem like a well-thought out voice architecture and it has a lot of good features. I would have liked more elaborate filters and mod routings, but that's just me and I bet this synth will be exactly what a lot of people are looking for. I bet they sell a lot of them.

DP
Old 23rd August 2007
  #35
Lives for gear
hmmm..... based on the sounds Id take the polyevolver over this. doesnt seem to "original." Polyevolver seems a bit more versatile. BUT thats just based on the sounds on the site....
Old 23rd August 2007
  #36
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Elak's Avatar
 

Quote:
For a synth with so many possible mod sources and destinations, the modulation patching seems somewhat limited. Each mod source can only be routed to ONE destination. You can't control filter cutoff + osc 2 sync sweep + LFO3 rate with the same ADSR. A true modulation matrix with 16 or more available connections would have been better, so you could control multiple destinations with the same source or control one destination with several mod sources. You do have a few extra routings in the "Modulators" section but it still doesn't seem to make full use of the available mod capabilities.
When it comes to endless modulation possibilities, Woldorf synths are it.
as far as pure analog synths then Matrix12 and Voyetra8 are it.
Old 23rd August 2007
  #37
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elak View Post
When it comes to endless modulation possibilities, Woldorf synths are it.
as far as pure analog synths then Matrix12 and Voyetra8 are it.
+1 on the Waldorfs....I've got a Q and an XTK and love 'em both.....BUT sometimes the modulation patching is so complex it makes my head hurt.

I think part of what they are going for with this new Prophet is "ease of use" and live performance....the original P5 was not that complex and was easy to use, while holding down the options holds down the price I'm sure limiting the feature set was a nob to the original P5. Having all those LFO's is very nice though.

Analogeezer
Old 23rd August 2007
  #38
question (still toying with the idea using it as masterkeyboard):
do the arpeggiators and sequencer produce midi notes out?
Old 24th August 2007
  #39
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Elak's Avatar
 

Quote:
do the arpeggiators and sequencer produce midi notes out?
I'm sure they do otherwise they'd be useless.

Quote:
BUT sometimes the modulation patching is so complex it makes my head hurt.
I know, crazy about my uQ, uWave1, uWave2 but even with editors it's a rocket science. .

Quote:
"ease of use"
that's the great thing about it. if i want to pull out hair, I fire up the Waldorfs.
Old 24th August 2007
  #40
Gear Maniac
I'd love a Fat Nasty Pro-One !!

3 CEM3340 VCO
2 CEM3310 EG
1 CEM3320 VCF
VCA unclear what was used 3280?
Old 25th August 2007
  #41
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I seem to be the only one underwhelmed with the design. Yes, I love analog synths and I won't complain about 8-voices at $2k but the layout just doesn't have the inspriation that my Andromeda does. The andromeda is 16 voice and $3k new so to me the Prophet 08 isn't really breaking new ground.
I will still consider purchasing it but if the layout doesn't inspire me the sounds sure as hell better.
Old 26th August 2007
  #42
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Sounds Great's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rapfreak View Post
I will still consider purchasing it but if the layout doesn't inspire me the sounds sure as hell better.

The sounds are what matter. Lets wait and see.
Old 26th August 2007
  #43
Gear Nut
 
Elak's Avatar
 

Quote:
The sounds are what matter. Lets wait and see
Absolutely !
Don’t care who makes it, what’s in it or how good it looks on the paper or mp3 crap.
I would have to play it and spend at least an hour before deciding to let go of the cash.
Old 27th August 2007
  #44
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Dirty Halo's Avatar
 

Question RELEASE DATE?

Maybe I missed the post, but when will this be out?

Thanks

-andrews
Old 27th August 2007
  #45
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Jazzpunk's Avatar
 

No matter how many times I see the price tag it still makes me smile!
Old 27th August 2007
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Peck View Post
...For a synth with so many possible mod sources and destinations, the modulation patching seems somewhat limited...
I'll take a Matrix 12/'08. hehheh

Shane
Old 27th August 2007
  #47
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Jazzpunk's Avatar
 

Any news on a desktop version?
Old 31st August 2007
  #48
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Elak's Avatar
 

Sure wish it was a VCO but then they would charge 5000 instead of 2000.
Old 31st August 2007
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo View Post
Maybe I missed the post, but when will this be out?

Thanks

-andrews
Dave Smith Instruments Prophet 08 | Sweetwater.com

It's Arriving Soon!
We've confirmed this item has shipped from Dave Smith Instruments and should arrive in our warehouse within a day or two. Go ahead, place your order now. We will ship it immediately, the very same day we receive it from Dave Smith Instruments. Call now. We promise you'll have it soon.

must....reach....visa....card.....now
Old 1st September 2007
  #50
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Jazzpunk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elak View Post
Sure wish it was a VCO but then they would charge 5000 instead of 2000.
Yeah let's see, my monophonic Moog Little Phatty cost me $1400. I can live with DCO's!

Great interview clips here;

http://www.keyboardmag.tv/
Old 1st September 2007
  #51
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Dirty Halo's Avatar
 

Thumbs up Andromeda sounds like crap...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rapfreak View Post
I seem to be the only one underwhelmed with the design. Yes, I love analog synths and I won't complain about 8-voices at $2k but the layout just doesn't have the inspriation that my Andromeda does. The andromeda is 16 voice and $3k new so to me the Prophet 08 isn't really breaking new ground.
I will still consider purchasing it but if the layout doesn't inspire me the sounds sure as hell better.
I've owed one the A6 and am a total analogue slut... have more than I can count and was SO excited about the Andromeda... BUT, it is now THE only synth I've bothered to SELL.

For an analogue synth it was oddly plastic sounding (and not in a good way)... not bashing, I wanted to like it, loved the idea, but man, I just couldn't like it.

NOW, this new Prophet 08 is REALLY exciting!!!!

Yes, the sound will be the verdict, but man, if Dave Smith's track record is any indicator, I have high hopes!

Just curious, other than comsmetics, are there any patch or sonic advantages to the "signature" version?

I just ordered one and am happy to support Dave.

Very excited for this synth, so cool

-andrews
Old 2nd September 2007
  #52
Gear Nut
 
Elak's Avatar
 

Quote:
I can live with DCO's!
And so we must.
Onward with DCO........
Old 2nd September 2007
  #53
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carlheinz's Avatar
 

This all very nice and please correct me if I'm wrong... but if this is an instrument to be played live, I think there is a serious omission.I miss the old school bank and patch selector button layouts that you find on a P5/T-8.How are you expected to dig through patches quickly?Am I missing something?I want to easily jump from sound "A" to "F" to "C" on the fly.I don't want to have to program that string and then step through the chain with an"up"/"down"key...That is a P.I.T.A.Do I need a separate midi controller just to change or map the patches that way?
Old 3rd September 2007
  #54
Gear Maniac
 

I'm wondering the same thing. I found the patch selection on my mono eveolver a pain even while recording. Is it possible to split the keyboard up and have different patches assigned to a different part of the keyboard? Probably not.
Old 3rd September 2007
  #55
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Bryce's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by F5D View Post
Andromeda have digital control electronics for lfo's, envelopes etc.
So does the Prophet '08.

Don't be confused by the fact that when software envelopes and LFOs were first introduced some 20 odd years ago that manufacturers were using Z80 processors (or the equivalent), which were...shall we say...not the ideal tool for the job. Suffice it to say that enough time has passed and technology has evolved so that this is not an issue.

For an instrument to be considered analog, the the signal flow path (oscillator, filter and amplifier) needs to be analog. This is the case with both the Andromeda and the P'08.

Quote:
which means that also the vca is digitally controlled.
Not so. VCA stands for Voltage Controlled Amplifier.

The only thing in the P'08's signal path that is under some sort of digital control are the oscillators; and, as correctly mentioned above, DCOs are analog oscillators with analog waveshapes. They have capacitors that are charged and discharged, just like VCOs. They have slop and artifacts, just like VCOs. As I understand it, the main difference is that the discharge is controlled by DSP.

According to Dave Smith (who knows more than any other synth engineer I've ever met), a properly tweaked DCO will scope identically to a properly tweaked VCO. Every synth engineer that I've ever spoken with on the subject has corroborated this....

dB
DSI
Old 3rd September 2007
  #56
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GYang's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryce View Post

According to Dave Smith (who knows more than any other synth engineer I've ever met), a properly tweaked DCO will scope identically to a properly tweaked VCO. Every synth engineer that I've ever spoken with on the subject has corroborated this....

dB
DSI
Amen.
No more comments on DCO necessary
Old 9th October 2007
  #57
Here for the gear
 

the Andy bubbles..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo View Post
I've owed one the A6 and am a total analogue slut... have more than I can count and was SO excited about the Andromeda... BUT, it is now THE only synth I've bothered to SELL.
For an analogue synth it was oddly plastic sounding (and not in a good way)... not bashing, I wanted to like it, loved the idea, but man, I just couldn't like it.
Just for the record, the Andy is capable of a big, pure analog sound.

to really get at it, you have to route it through the aux outputs; this takes the digital FX conversion stage out of the chain.

Other nice thing about the A6 is you can adjust the "slop" factor for the DCO's manually. If you loosen it up, it sounds like something that's been fermenting in the attic for a while. The pitch drift is also great- if you choose not to autotune it, you can get a nice, authentic swampy, festering sound.
Old 9th October 2007
  #58
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Sounds Great's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshroseman View Post

Other nice thing about the A6 is you can adjust the "slop" factor for the DCO's manually. If you loosen it up, it sounds like something that's been fermenting in the attic for a while. The pitch drift is also great- if you choose not to autotune it, you can get a nice, authentic swampy, festering sound.

Nice description, man. Thanks for that. thumbsup
Old 1st November 2007
  #59
Gear Maniac
 
WTMNMF's Avatar
 

Talking

My wife got me one for my birthday! I've got lots of analog synths and I'll tell you that this thing is an instant classic. I can't wait for a rack mount version so that I can add more layers to a patch. The '08 is really fun for me to play and I can't imagine that others won't feel the same. I am more (ok, wayyy more) of a synthesist than a keyboardist, and it really fits my style. There is plenty for the keyboardist as well.


hehhehheh
Old 1st November 2007
  #60
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I contacted DSI about whether or nor a rack-mount will be happening, and they said not in th immediate future. There priority is the Boom-Chick and then they'll see what happens.. I've got no more room for another keyboard!!!
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