Steven Slate VSX Headphone: Mix in Pro Studios, Mastering Rooms, Cars, Clubs, Boomboxes, & More - Page 166 - Gearslutz
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Steven Slate VSX Headphone: Mix in Pro Studios, Mastering Rooms, Cars, Clubs, Boomboxes, & More
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #4951
Lives for gear
 
Benj's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanic ➡️
No, they are not on-ear. At least not for me. My ears fit inside the cups.
I must have big ears. It’s definitely somewhere between on ear and over ear for me... but it’s definitely not over ear like Audeze and Sennheiser (650/600) for me where it goes completely over my ears. It rests on my ears and I’d say it takes a 3-4 hours before my ears start getting a little sore. Others may have a different experience, but this is mine.
Old 6 days ago
  #4952
Slate Pro Audio / Slate Digital
 
Steven Slate's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Hey guys, for the record, the frequencies in the VSX EQ were chosen in accordance with some studies that we read about the different ways that peoples' ear anatomies could affect frequency response of an over ear headphone. But we didn't have any conclusive data that would allow us to make specific determinations until after release when we had 400+ audio engineers giving us their feedback. For the next update, you'll also have an advanced settings to change the center frequency of the profile adjustment to a few different options since this can vary from person to person.

Steven
Old 4 days ago | Show parent
  #4953
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Slate ➡️
Hey guys, for the record, the frequencies in the VSX EQ were chosen in accordance with some studies that we read about the different ways that peoples' ear anatomies could affect frequency response of an over ear headphone. But we didn't have any conclusive data that would allow us to make specific determinations until after release when we had 400+ audio engineers giving us their feedback. For the next update, you'll also have an advanced settings to change the center frequency of the profile adjustment to a few different options since this can vary from person to person.

Steven
Hi Steven, can you share your frequency response measurements for these headphones?

And what headphones measurement rig do you use?
Old 4 days ago | Show parent
  #4954
Lives for gear
 
Hardtoe's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Slate ➡️
Hey guys, for the record, the frequencies in the VSX EQ were chosen in accordance with some studies that we read about the different ways that peoples' ear anatomies could affect frequency response of an over ear headphone. But we didn't have any conclusive data that would allow us to make specific determinations until after release when we had 400+ audio engineers giving us their feedback. For the next update, you'll also have an advanced settings to change the center frequency of the profile adjustment to a few different options since this can vary from person to person.

Steven
That’s great news Steven as I like the idea of VSX, but I find myself not totally meshing with them so far as the center freq is not quite right to get where I need to be between profile 1&2 - it’s close, but close doesn’t work when you are wanting to settle in to mixing and forget about the monitoring - as it stands now I am always second guessing things a bit
Old 4 days ago
  #4955
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Would be nice if there was a mono selector in each of the studio rooms within the VSX plugin. (Sorry if this has already been discussed.)
Old 4 days ago | Show parent
  #4956
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardtoe ➡️
it’s close, but close doesn’t work when you are wanting to settle in to mixing and forget about the monitoring - as it stands now I am always second guessing things a bit
Remember it takes just as long to get used to one model in the VSX plugin as it does to get used to any speakers + room.
Old 4 days ago | Show parent
  #4957
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcprod ➡️
Would be nice if there was a mono selector in each of the studio rooms within the VSX plugin. (Sorry if this has already been discussed.)
Since VSX are binaural, that could never work.

Mono Aurotone coming in next plugin version
Old 4 days ago | Show parent
  #4958
Lives for gear
 
Hardtoe's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdvine ➡️
Remember it takes just as long to get used to one model in the VSX plugin as it does to get used to any speakers + room.
I'm a pro mixer with a lot of experience - the high end does not feel quite right to me on my reference tracks that I have been using for 20 years with a lot of different monitoring systems.

I don't need to "learn the speakers", I want the speakers to sound flat for me.

Right now that doesn't seem to be happening like it is for some users, thus the need to have better fine tuning solutions....
Old 4 days ago | Show parent
  #4959
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcprod ➡️
Would be nice if there was a mono selector in each of the studio rooms within the VSX plugin. (Sorry if this has already been discussed.)
Yes ! And a way to make the plugin smaller with just the 5 favorites room
Old 4 days ago | Show parent
  #4960
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardtoe ➡️
the high end does not feel quite right to me on my reference tracks that I have been using for 20 years with a lot of different monitoring systems.
You could place a more detailed EQ before VSX so your reference tracks sound perfect in HD Linear.
Old 4 days ago | Show parent
  #4961
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
How long have you been using them? Because I was having a very similar issue and thinking that they weren't going to work for me. But one day it just kinda clicked. And I really think it had more to do with getting my head to accept the binaural thing than it did with the actual high end. I found myself using them to balance but I couldn't trust EQing anything in them. Now I do
Old 4 days ago | Show parent
  #4962
Lives for gear
 
Hardtoe's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by callmecarny ➡️
How long have you been using them? Because I was having a very similar issue and thinking that they weren't going to work for me. But one day it just kinda clicked. And I really think it had more to do with getting my head to accept the binaural thing than it did with the actual high end. I found myself using them to balance but I couldn't trust EQing anything in them. Now I do
Hmmm - I haven't used them much due to this problem you mentioned (not trusting EQ choices), so maybe it will happen for me if I just get into using them more frequently - I have had a lot of mixing to get down quickly lately, so I haven't had time to experiment lately.
Old 4 days ago | Show parent
  #4963
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdvine ➡️
Since VSX are binaural, that could never work.

Mono Aurotone coming in next plugin version
Ok. Thanks for the info.
Old 4 days ago | Show parent
  #4964
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardtoe ➡️
Hmmm - I haven't used them much due to this problem you mentioned (not trusting EQ choices), so maybe it will happen for me if I just get into using them more frequently - I have had a lot of mixing to get down quickly lately, so I haven't had time to experiment lately.
Yeah, I had deadlines for mixes that I had to get done too.

What ended up doing it for me was just using them all the time in non critical applications. For example if I had to do edits on a mix like cleaning comping and tuning vocals for example, I'd use VSX. If I was taking a break, I'd listen to music through it. Somebody requested revisions? If it was something like "hey bring this up a bit" or "less reverb on this please" I used VSX.

Then one day they went from sounding kinda strange and hollow in the high end, to just sounding like really great references.

They transitioned from almost a cool novelty to an actual legitimate part of my workflow. At this point I wouldn't want to mix without them.
Old 4 days ago | Show parent
  #4965
Lives for gear
 
Hardtoe's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by callmecarny ➡️
Yeah, I had deadlines for mixes that I had to get done too.

What ended up doing it for me was just using them all the time in non critical applications. For example if I had to do edits on a mix like cleaning comping and tuning vocals for example, I'd use VSX. If I was taking a break, I'd listen to music through it. Somebody requested revisions? If it was something like "hey bring this up a bit" or "less reverb on this please" I used VSX.

Then one day they went from sounding kinda strange and hollow in the high end, to just sounding like really great references.

They transitioned from almost a cool novelty to an actual legitimate part of my workflow. At this point I wouldn't want to mix without them.
Ok your experience seems very similar to mine, will give it a go in earnest here, thanks
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #4966
Gear Addict
 
I wouldn't want to mix without them at this point, but my experience is weird at times.
Sometimes it is very immersive, and at other times it is like my ears/brain just won't adapt to the illusion. At those times the rooms have that phasey sound that people have referred to.

When I take the VSX off and listen on my Focal Alphas, I still find myself hearing certain things in the high frequencies that are too hyped that the VSX is not revealing for me, which then makes me second guess the decisions I am making with the VSX.

It sort of seems like the VSX rooms and HD Linear are lacking detail in the high frequencies for me, so my tendency is to boost those frequencies too much.

The mixes that I have done with the VSX, I am finding myself struggling with balancing the high frequencies the most. Could just be the learning curve and a matter of familiarity.
Old 3 days ago
  #4967
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robshrock's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I know it's been said before (and several times by me alone), but we really need a mini interface for VSX.

I just spent the past two weeks mixing a large project on a tight deadline using VSX quite a lot. We need to be able to jump around a few speaker setups quickly and easily. Just the Fave 5 is good enough; I don't need (or want) all the choices... that would be counter-productive to work as far as I'm concerned. I can always go back to the main GUI for that.

Also, I know I can stick a Gain plugin in front of VSX to mono the signal going in, and I get a mono signal going into a stereo room (just like IRL); but I think a mono button should be a part of the interface, too (not after VSX, but just mono-ing the signal going in to VSX). Because when you're in the heat of it, you want to quickly pop to another set of monitors to check something then jump back, and also pop it into mono for a few seconds here and there... quickly. Again, just like on the control section of a console. (Not all interfaces have an easy way to mono the signal feeding headphones.)

These add'l seconds of hunting around for the VSX plugin to change rooms and finding another another Gain plugin to mono the signal hurt productivity on a deadline. It seems an easy implementation from what I would guess.

Looking very forward to the new update. Can't wait, actually.
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #4968
Lives for gear
 
Calagan's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by robshrock ➡️
I know it's been said before (and several times by me alone), but we really need a mini interface for VSX.

I just spent the past two weeks mixing a large project on a tight deadline using VSX quite a lot. We need to be able to jump around a few speaker setups quickly and easily. Just the Fave 5 is good enough; I don't need (or want) all the choices... that would be counter-productive to work as far as I'm concerned. I can always go back to the main GUI for that.

Also, I know I can stick a Gain plugin in front of VSX to mono the signal going in, and I get a mono signal going into a stereo room (just like IRL); but I think a mono button should be a part of the interface, too (not after VSX, but just mono-ing the signal going in to VSX). Because when you're in the heat of it, you want to quickly pop to another set of monitors to check something then jump back, and also pop it into mono for a few seconds here and there... quickly. Again, just like on the control section of a console. (Not all interfaces have an easy way to mono the signal feeding headphones.)

These add'l seconds of hunting around for the VSX plugin to change rooms and finding another another Gain plugin to mono the signal hurt productivity on a deadline. It seems an easy implementation from what I would guess.

Looking very forward to the new update. Can't wait, actually.
Agree with everything.
Another issue for me is the time it takes to just make the plugin' GUI appear on the screen. Each time I want to change a setting, it takes few seconds on my system...
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #4969
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by robshrock ➡️
I know it's been said before (and several times by me alone), but we really need a mini interface for VSX.

I just spent the past two weeks mixing a large project on a tight deadline using VSX quite a lot. We need to be able to jump around a few speaker setups quickly and easily. Just the Fave 5 is good enough; I don't need (or want) all the choices... that would be counter-productive to work as far as I'm concerned. I can always go back to the main GUI for that.

Also, I know I can stick a Gain plugin in front of VSX to mono the signal going in, and I get a mono signal going into a stereo room (just like IRL); but I think a mono button should be a part of the interface, too (not after VSX, but just mono-ing the signal going in to VSX). Because when you're in the heat of it, you want to quickly pop to another set of monitors to check something then jump back, and also pop it into mono for a few seconds here and there... quickly. Again, just like on the control section of a console. (Not all interfaces have an easy way to mono the signal feeding headphones.)

These add'l seconds of hunting around for the VSX plugin to change rooms and finding another another Gain plugin to mono the signal hurt productivity on a deadline. It seems an easy implementation from what I would guess.

Looking very forward to the new update. Can't wait, actually.
Monitoring Bus here: Metric A/B for mono and ABing, dedicated EQ for different rooms in VSX, VSX for changing rooms.

Mono button, refined EQ and a small Favourites window in VSX will definitely make this mess a lot more workable

regards Ralf
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #4970
Lives for gear
 
robshrock's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rernst ➡️
Monitoring Bus here: Metric A/B for mono and ABing, dedicated EQ for different rooms in VSX, VSX for changing rooms.

Mono button, refined EQ and a small Favourites window in VSX will definitely make this mess a lot more workable

regards Ralf
Similar here... I'm not EQ-ing the VSX rooms separately; but I do have Metric AB going into a bx_digital V3 for solo'ing M and S signals followed by a few other meters, then another plug-in for folding down to mono... then VSX.

Anything that can streamline the process is welcome.
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #4971
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by robshrock ➡️
Similar here... I'm not EQ-ing the VSX rooms separately; but I do have Metric AB going into a bx_digital V3 for solo'ing M and S signals followed by a few other meters, then another plug-in for folding down to mono... then VSX.

Anything that can streamline the process is welcome.
I use the EQ for M/S soloing too unfortunately no Mono mode in EQ. Sides Monitoring is supported by Metric AB but unfortunately no Mid .

I'm using -very slightly- different EQ presets for NRG / Howie in VSX compensating for my listening-habit (I hate the term profile...) and -more importantly- my mixing-habits (always look on the bright side of life...). BTW: I do the same with "real" monitors.
Find it much easier to work with my ears and monitoring than against them...

cheers Ralf
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #4972
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Our hearing, or our studios are just different. For me the experience is opposite. VSX on the Fars in every room except the club, the highs and high mids are just a little too much louder so I turn them down. I have no problem with the 650 or HD-Linear headphones. Profile 2 works for me with a little adjustment. Profile 1 stabs me with the highs. By your post, I would think you are a profile 1 at least.
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #4973
Lives for gear
 
borg64's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardtoe ➡️
Hmmm - I haven't used them much due to this problem you mentioned (not trusting EQ choices), so maybe it will happen for me if I just get into using them more frequently - I have had a lot of mixing to get down quickly lately, so I haven't had time to experiment lately.
Hey Hardtoe,

This was the case for me too, I had a hard time specifically getting the high-end to translate naturally.

After going through intensive reference tracking in multiple genres, I ultimately ended up tackling this by doing a specific (less time-critical) mastering job strictly on the VSX with more creativity, pushing and pulling frequencies more drastically than I'd normally do, going more for 'character' than 'radio ready'. I allowed myself to push the limit a bit and go a dB or two overboard in different ways on different songs, to check myself for translation problems. Basically, could I anticipate what would actually work and what would be too much?

A good night's rest, a quick back-and-forth to my usual monitors (PSI A25-Ms, KH80s and MixCubes) as well as a long headphone walk, this turned out incredibly revealing and made me understand VSX a lot better. Things kinda clicked. High-end and lower midrange translation improved a lot for me after this, and I feel confident doing client work on them now.
Old 3 days ago
  #4974
Here for the gear
 
Would it be helpful to know the exact crossover frequencies of the "L", "LM", "M", "LH" and "H"?
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #4975
Lives for gear
 
Hardtoe's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg64 ➡️
Hey Hardtoe,

This was the case for me too, I had a hard time specifically getting the high-end to translate naturally.

After going through intensive reference tracking in multiple genres, I ultimately ended up tackling this by doing a specific (less time-critical) mastering job strictly on the VSX with more creativity, pushing and pulling frequencies more drastically than I'd normally do, going more for 'character' than 'radio ready'. I allowed myself to push the limit a bit and go a dB or two overboard in different ways on different songs, to check myself for translation problems. Basically, could I anticipate what would actually work and what would be too much?

A good night's rest, a quick back-and-forth to my usual monitors (PSI A25-Ms, KH80s and MixCubes) as well as a long headphone walk, this turned out incredibly revealing and made me understand VSX a lot better. Things kinda clicked. High-end and lower midrange translation improved a lot for me after this, and I feel confident doing client work on them now.
Ok thanks so much for sharing your experience - I do think I've had moments where VSX sounded amazing (hard to really remember accurately perception like this), but then the next time, I'm like, there is no way that vocal sounds so strident compared to my trusted monitoring.

I guess I just gotta roll up the shirt sleeves and dig in till it clicks.

I've also noticed that taking off my glasses helps sonically, but then I cant see to mix, so there's that, ha ha
Old 3 days ago
  #4976
Lives for gear
 
Hardtoe's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 3a36e3a ➡️
trust your own judgement.
I do - all day long.....

When I trust my monitoring

Working that out here with VSX....
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #4977
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardtoe ➡️
I've also noticed that taking off my glasses helps sonically, but then I cant see to mix, so there's that, ha ha
+1, depending on the form and thickness of the arms of the glasses. My screen glasses with very thin arms work with VSX with my usual glasses I hear a difference with VSX, without glasses I'm lost anyway

cheers Ralf
Old 3 days ago
  #4978
Lives for gear
 
Hardtoe's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 3a36e3a ➡️
can no one answer a simple question ffs?
If you mean about the founder editions, I think the new versions will be the same but with improved quality control on the headband that had some issues for parts of the run

At least this is what I've gathered from the thread//....
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #4979
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rernst ➡️
+1, depending on the form and thickness of the arms of the glasses. My screen glasses with very thin arms work with VSX with my usual glasses I hear a difference with VSX, without glasses I'm lost anyway

cheers Ralf
I put the VSX on first, then my glasses, angled sharply downwards so there's no gap between my ears and the headphones. Of course now straight lines like grids or regions are a bit curved, but this way I get the best fit for VSX and can still operate the DAW!
Old 3 days ago | Show parent
  #4980
Gear Addict
 
VSX is not 'snake oil' at all, just takes some getting used to, like any listening environment, speakers or headphones.

You don't put on VSX and say "Woah...I know audio engineering!" like Neo in The Matrix.
You still need to know what you are doing. There is no substitute for knowledge and experience.

Also mvsic, I have seen your question answered a bunch of times. The next production run is just that, the next run. They just won't be the first run aka 'the founders edition'.
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