Toontrack releases SDX expansion by Eddie Kramer - Page 4 - Gearslutz
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Toontrack releases SDX expansion by Eddie Kramer
Old 15th September 2020 | Show parent
  #91
A lot of people have different favourites.
There are audio demos on the Toon site.
Old 15th September 2020 | Show parent
  #92
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Jeezo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by McWreckinBall View Post
I don't mean make them compatible with each other, you've always been able to use EZX's in SD. But what I mean is I wish they would have made some of those EZX's to the quality level of an SDX. SDX's go way deeper in their sampling/articulations. Plus EZX libraries are compressed to save file size. But this would've required them to have planned on releasing an SDX when they were producing it. I'm often stuck because a certain EZX will have the exact character I'm going for on a production, but physically limited in what the libraries able to do. This mostly comes in to play with the snare, hats and ride. There's a lot of articulations that just simple won't be there in an EZX. Also because of their fewer samples, they can sound a bit fake with snare rolls and ghost notes.
Got you ...
Old 15th September 2020 | Show parent
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
If I were going to buy my first SDX pack what would be great recommendations? I’m not a death metal heavy rock guy, but some of those sounds would be cool. Studio session stuff I guess. I keep thinking I have the NY Avatar session pack 1 but maybe not. You can tell i don’t use it too much. I use real drums and real drummers mostly.
If it were me - the Al Schmidt "Decades" - you have drums from the 30's to the 90's. Probably the least "metal" aside from "Roots".
Then again this new one looks great. I have most of the packs. Suprisingly perhaps not the sexiest but I love "Music City".

Also the new "Legacy of Rock is interesting in that it features kits from two drummers that were essentially weaned on jazz - Charlie Watts - and especially Mitch Mitchel. What I love about the SDX series is the ability to work with the rooms and ambience. It doesn't always have to be "in your face" close mic'd. That's just me.

Cdlt
Old 15th September 2020
  #94
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I just bit the bullet
Downloading ...
Old 16th September 2020 | Show parent
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melgueil View Post
If it were me - the Al Schmidt "Decades" - you have drums from the 30's to the 90's. Probably the least "metal" aside from "Roots".
Then again this new one looks great. I have most of the packs. Suprisingly perhaps not the sexiest but I love "Music City".

Also the new "Legacy of Rock is interesting in that it features kits from two drummers that were essentially weaned on jazz - Charlie Watts - and especially Mitch Mitchel. What I love about the SDX series is the ability to work with the rooms and ambience. It doesn't always have to be "in your face" close mic'd. That's just me.

Cdlt
Yes the Charlie Watts dry kits are very jazz leaning. The same goes for the Mitch Mitchell silver kit. This is helpful if I am playing along to other people’s tracks and I’m not trying to put the drums in the front of the mix all the time.
Old 17th September 2020 | Show parent
  #96
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It's true that historically TT has leaned a bit towards Metal side of things. Although sampled at multiple velocities, many of the early packs showcased out of the box mostly the MIDI samples played fortissimo. I learned I had to get in there at the note level and fix a lot of that. More recently we see a more welcome, blended approach it seems.

In the end S3 and the SDX expansions are so powerful and flexible you can do almost anything - but I found I did have to invest the time. This is where the SDX model is significantly different from the ESX. Watching some of the online videos you can see just how far they've come at TT. Can't say enough good things about the platform.

Cdlt
Old 18th September 2020
  #97
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How do these mix? It's hard to tell if sample libraries work in the real world just by hearing promo samples. I like dry drums and not really interested in big ambience. The factory library didn't seem to sit well with me,
Old 18th September 2020 | Show parent
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zohomoho View Post
How do these mix? It's hard to tell if sample libraries work in the real world just by hearing promo samples. I like dry drums and not really interested in big ambience. The factory library didn't seem to sit well with me,
In SDX the packs should come with the unprocessed dry sounds.
Old 18th September 2020 | Show parent
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zohomoho View Post
How do these mix? It's hard to tell if sample libraries work in the real world just by hearing promo samples. I like dry drums and not really interested in big ambience. The factory library didn't seem to sit well with me,
The close mics are fairly dry. Drier than the core library close mics. You can blend in the room mics to taste. These samples have a lot more character than the core library.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptune45 View Post
In SDX the packs should come with the unprocessed dry sounds.
Well, that's sort of relative I think.

Recycling what I said in a previous post in another thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
Despite the impression they sometimes give, it seems the approach to SDXs has always been that they are only processed as much as the particular engineer would typically do so during a tracking session, which in many cases is little to none. While not explicitly stated, the Bob Rock SDX is obviously compressed and EQed. Obvious to me anyway, as a drummer who has recorded many acoustic kits. In the making of video, Bob Rock also refers to one kit as "less hyped" and another as a "scooped" seventies sound, which is exactly what I hear in the processing.

So when Toontrack says "raw", it's more accurate to think "unmixed". It's just that some engineers do a bit more processing during tracking than others. Even Al Schmitt deliberately saturates preamps. The Superior Drummer 3 core library is the only one I can think of that actually has no audible saturation.
In this case, it sounds like Eddie Kramer deliberately saturated the preamps and EQed to "tape", not intrusively so, but just a bit of sculpting. From how they sound just sitting in a rough mix, I'd say there is room for a lot more processing if that's what you're into, or you could just add a bit of parallel compression and buss EQ and call it good.
Old 18th September 2020
  #100
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I sure wish TT would provide some IRs of these rooms to go with the libraries so I can place my other instruments in the same space.
Old 18th September 2020 | Show parent
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guavadude View Post
I sure wish TT would provide some IRs of these rooms to go with the libraries so I can place my other instruments in the same space.
Thats actually a great idea. Never thought about it.
Old 18th September 2020 | Show parent
  #102
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Getting SD3 and some V Drums remains probably the best thing I’ve done for my musical/audio life. Absolutely mind blowing that I can bang out the best drum tracks I’ve ever gotten in the middle of the night with my wife and kids sleeping.

Getting a new machine and dedicated drives and I’ll be grabbing the Kramer SDX immediately.
Old 18th September 2020
  #103
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SD3 novice question reated to the reverb comment. I had been resistant to using SD because I'd rather use my own mixer, reverbs and EQ. Is it possible or practical to send the individual outputs to my DAW mixer?
Old 18th September 2020 | Show parent
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
SD3 novice question reated to the reverb comment. I had been resistant to using SD because I'd rather use my own mixer, reverbs and EQ. Is it possible or practical to send the individual outputs to my DAW mixer?
Yes. I have all the auxes in my template so every mic in SD3 is just routed to a track in PT and I mix things the same way I do with drums I tracked on my own.
Old 18th September 2020
  #105
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Very much so... you can route the individual dry elements to individual tracks in your daw and add what ever you like..
Old 18th September 2020
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
SD3 novice question reated to the reverb comment. I had been resistant to using SD because I'd rather use my own mixer, reverbs and EQ. Is it possible or practical to send the individual outputs to my DAW mixer?
I have outputs from S3 setup as groups for kick, snr, toms, hat, OH, ambient and specialty. That way I can process as I want but still use S3 mixer to fine tune if needed for each mic channel. Makes it easier to bounce stems this way too.
Old 18th September 2020
  #107
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Thanks folks. I had assumed so but I've only used it a little bit.
Old 19th September 2020 | Show parent
  #108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptune45 View Post
In SDX the packs should come with the unprocessed dry sounds.
Any drum recording is a product of it's environment.
It's not processing.
This goes for live drumming on recording sessions.
You can't eliminate the room sound from a close mic, it is ALWAYS present in overheads and ambience mics.
The best way to get a dry drum sound is to record the drums in a small dry room. But then you have no room sound to add ambience to the kit.
90% of people want the ability to add room ambience to their drums, so that's why the main SDX libraries are recorded in bigger rooms.
You can lessen the room sound by not using any of the room mics in your mix, but it will never be 'dry'.
Old 19th September 2020 | Show parent
  #109
Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
SD3 novice question reated to the reverb comment. I had been resistant to using SD because I'd rather use my own mixer, reverbs and EQ. Is it possible or practical to send the individual outputs to my DAW mixer?
There is no 'reverb'. It's just the sound of the room the drums are sampled in.
SDX's are sold as unprocessed. The very first packs were pretty raw, but then Toon started using famous record producers and it seemed more sensible to allow those producers to use whatever minimal EQ they would normally use when tracking for a real world album session. Plus the drums are sampled in studios with very high quality, often unique recording consoles.
So the famous producer products (of which Eddie Kramer is one) are all about mic choice, mic positioning, the console in the studio and minimal EQ to achieve the starting point that producer usually has at the beginning of a project.
Old 19th September 2020 | Show parent
  #110
Quote:
Originally Posted by guavadude View Post
I sure wish TT would provide some IRs of these rooms to go with the libraries so I can place my other instruments in the same space.
This was mentioned earlier or in a similar thread.
In this post internet, post home studio time, the biggest asset these large commercial studios have is their tracking room.
There is no way (I have tentatively asked) they will allow the pure sound of the room to be sampled so it can be used forever more on lot's of other products.
Why would you ever pay to use Air or Blackbird if you had the sound of their rooms always available in your drum sampler?
Old 19th September 2020 | Show parent
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
The best way to get a dry drum sound is to record the drums in a small dry room. '.
and which is what so good about the CV stuff from 2khz
Old 19th September 2020 | Show parent
  #112
Yes well, we obviously agree.
If people want a C&V for 2021 they gotta ask Toontrack.
Old 19th September 2020 | Show parent
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Yes well, we obviously agree.
If people want a C&V for 2021 they gotta ask Toontrack.
yep - but as you know TT have their own agenda
Old 19th September 2020 | Show parent
  #114
Absolutely.
Old 19th September 2020 | Show parent
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
This was mentioned earlier or in a similar thread.
In this post internet, post home studio time, the biggest asset these large commercial studios have is their tracking room.
There is no way (I have tentatively asked) they will allow the pure sound of the room to be sampled so it can be used forever more on lot's of other products.
Why would you ever pay to use Air or Blackbird if you had the sound of their rooms always available in your drum sampler?
One of the reasons Hansa is appealing to me is the ability to use Eventide TVerb on other instruments, though I'm not sure how often I would want a room that big.
Old 19th September 2020 | Show parent
  #116
Sure.
UAD also has Oceanway as a virtual room/reverb.

No one as iconic as Hansa or Oceanway are giving away room sound impulses free.
Old 19th September 2020 | Show parent
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Sure.
UAD also has Oceanway as a virtual room/reverb.

No one as iconic as Hansa or Oceanway are giving away room sound impulses free.
Totally understandable. Their rooms are their livelihood!

It was one of the reasons the IK Sunset Sound plugin was exciting to see. Waves IR1 has some big name studios in it too, and can be picked up very cheap. No overlap with any of the SDX's, but lots of great albums had drums tracked in different rooms to the rest of the instruments anyway.
Old 19th September 2020
  #118
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Altiverb has quite a few

https://www.audioease.com/altiverb/browse.php

Including Hansa
Old 19th September 2020 | Show parent
  #119
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I was going to say Altiverb. There are tons of studio IR's. I have Altiverb but for these packs I prefer the combination of the drums and rooms they were originally recorded in. It feels very organic to me that way.

The beauty of the TT "multi-out" is indeed the ability to utilise close mics and what is often two to three stereo channels of OH, Ambience ribbons and room mics (not to mention the staggering combinations of individual bleed settings. Best of all worlds. The SDX packs were recorded in some the best rooms in the world. Part of the appeal for me but of course YMMV.

Cdlt
Old 19th September 2020 | Show parent
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melgueil View Post
I was going to say Altiverb. There are tons of studio IR's. I have Altiverb but for these packs I prefer the combination of the drums and rooms they were originally recorded in. It feels very organic to me that way.

The beauty of the TT "multi-out" is indeed the ability to utilise close mics and what is often two to three stereo channels of OH, Ambience ribbons and room mics (not to mention the staggering combinations of individual bleed settings. Best of all worlds. The SDX packs were recorded in some the best rooms in the world. Part of the appeal for me but of course YMMV.

Cdlt
Sure, the included room mic's sound better than putting them through a reverb, but we were talking about having other instruments in the same spaces as the drum kits.
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