Gearslutz

Gearslutz (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/)
-   Product Alerts older than 2 months (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/product-alerts-older-than-2-months/)
-   -   Steinberg announces SpectraLayers 7 (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/product-alerts-older-than-2-months/1320772-steinberg-announces-spectralayers-7-a.html)

Neptune45 10th August 2020 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by divide (Post 14906960)
Unfortunately I don't know more than you about this.

OK - thanks for responding anyway. I'll send an E-Mail to Steinberg.

divide 11th August 2020 04:07 PM

Some update: the first patch is ready but now needs to go through the web publication pipeline, so it'll likely be available end of this week or beginning of next week.

WallTone 11th August 2020 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by divide (Post 14908794)
Some update: the first patch is ready but now needs to go through the web publication pipeline, so it'll likely be available end of this week or beginning of next week.

That’s great to hear. But as a side question - could we expect any decent deal on upgrades during Q3-Q4?
I am literally waiting almost a year.

thenoodle 11th August 2020 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WallTone (Post 14909509)
That’s great to hear. But as a side question - could we expect any decent deal on upgrades during Q3-Q4?
I am literally waiting almost a year.

The upgrade price for moving from spectralayers 6 to spectralayers pro 7 is on steinberg's site. $80 seems pretty "decent" to me. What kind of price have you been waiting a year to see?

WallTone 12th August 2020 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoodle (Post 14909629)
The upgrade price for moving from spectralayers 6 to spectralayers pro 7 is on steinberg's site. $80 seems pretty "decent" to me. What kind of price have you been waiting a year to see?

The price would be in euros for me. I am looking for the price that was shortly after acquisition by Steinberg. Since the version that I have is still Magix one.
I am happy to pay in splits (Arturia is offering it) or via rent-to-own :) and while I super excited by deep integration with Cubase and the overall feature set - I could not justify having it yet. It sort of falls into cool to have category.

thenoodle 12th August 2020 12:05 AM

Having used Spectralayers for a few years, here are some of my observations & considerations....

I bought into it specifically for demixing...it's workflow was/is sorta similar to what I used with Isolate (hey zynaptiq, when?......) in that I can draw stuff out freehand, including overtones. For some material...ie: flutes and some types of harmonies, I can isolate/zap/demix those much faster with melodyne.

I always use sl standalone for surgery. Personally, there is no way I'd work with ara...while cubase etc is running.....wtf....it's surgery.....I do the work, export the result...and then later import the fixed stuff into the cubase project.

Hiss/hum zapping is stellar with sl. Soooo easy. Plus so easy to experiment with various levels of noise zapping (a lot of my work is with what were tape track multitracks from the 60s).

Ok.....this ai buzzword....and the 4-5 component stem making stuff......

I'm sensing.....that there is one outfit that made the code for autostems....and that the code is then licensed to...spectralayers/steinberg...acon...phonicmind....izotope, + all the other current online stem-maker outfits.

The type....and quality...of all the stem making code seems so far....to be about the same.

So, the only way sl will get better at auto-stems...is if/when the code maker gets better.

It's sort of like elastique...most every daw relies on it.

In this regard, I'm not too sure I'll upgrade right away to SL 7......because....hey.....phonicmind sometimes gives a perfectly fine demix for what....a dollar ninety-nine or something.

I believe it's Acon that describes where all this demixing code comes from that all the makers are using. I've only briefly looked at the source...which I believe is open source or something.

That being said....if SL is truly doing their/his own code for demixing, hey, that's cool.

But results...like I say....seem to be about the same across the code board.

What we need of course, is for Stephen Burnsee to dazzle the demixing world with whatever it is he envisioned Isolate to do next.....which....I hound Zynaptiq about all the time.

orange 12th August 2020 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoodle (Post 14909664)
Having used Spectralayers for a few years, here are some of my observations & considerations....
(snip)

I believe Robin developed the unmix stuff for SL7 - he might chime in and say. It's limited in scope as it has 'presets' for vocals / guitar etc. And as you might expect it's not 100% but it's as good or better than anything else I've heard.

Does it use AI ?...well no, not in my opinion. He's used some kind of machine learning to optimise the unmix process for these specific presets - but SL7 doesn't have AI built in... SB just seem to enjoy using the AI buzzword

As you said earlier, the upgrade price from SL6 is pretty reasonable so if you are using it a lot then it's a no brainer in my opinion. The denoising stuff have been tweaked/improved too. I still think that RX7 is far better at the denoising etc but if you are happy with SL6 then I think you will be even happier with SL7.

I use it with ARA in cubase - but it's not 100% - there are still limits and gotcha's in SB ARA implementation.

It's still pretty buggy and the UI could do with a major overhaul to make look 21st century but worth the upgrade price

thenoodle 12th August 2020 07:34 PM

Spleeter ai is the open source code I was referring to.

As I mentioned, I sense that any/all apps incorporating unmix/demix (audioanimix, acon, SL, izotope etc) are using the spleeter code....which by the way....the spleeter guy/guys seem to have moved from being able to do four stems now to 5. Seems to me that it's only spleeter's site that initially coined "ai"....so...that would appear to be the reason commercial companies that incorporate spleeter are also using the ai term.

Irritating term....as bad as when companies just could not stop themselves from using "robust" :)

As with elastique, app makers probably tweak spleeter for workflow incorporation.

At any rate, that's my observation as to why everyone's unmix app sounds about the same as everyone else.

The fantastic thing is that the technology is indeed getting better. The next few years will be exciting in this field imo.

orange 12th August 2020 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoodle (Post 14911065)
Spleeter ai is the open source code I was referring to.


yes - does look remarkably like he's just repackaged Spleeter for the unmix - the categories are certainly (suspiciously) the same

@ divide can you confirm ?

EDIT

https://github.com/deezer/spleeter/issues/155

yep

divide 12th August 2020 09:15 PM

Hi, for clarification: it indeed use the initial Spleeter training, but goes beyond what the public Spleeter package does. SL7 actually use zero lines from the Spleeter code, removes several of its technical limitations (such as sample rate, channels, frequency range, length, bit depth...), and provides more optimized results.
I also happen to know that team personally (we're both based in Paris), and we've reviewed how the training could (or could not) be improved.
The other unmixing and restoration processes in SL7 were trained entirely in-house.

As for the use of the term AI: "AI" is commonly associated to machine learning and deep learning in particular these days. All the crazy stuff you can read in the press about AI these past few years is actually achieved with deep learning. All the AI processes in SL7 uses deep learning. You can argue whether it's appropriate to talk about AI or not in this case, but it's the closest we have right now in term of machine intelligence, at least in regard to the capability of a machine to analyze and produce meaning from its environment :)

Deep learning is actually inspired by biological neurons, and how connected to each other they produce meaning from raw signals. While there's no clear understanding of how they are biologically structured in our brain, some models of virtual neurons (convolutional neural networks) can now achieve impressive results in signal treatment, almost to the level of human capabilities.
Still, it's "dumb" : while achieving more and more impressive results, these models are trained for only one specific task at a time. The next level would be AGI: Artificial General Intelligence. But it's still science fiction at this point.

divide 13th August 2020 02:10 PM

The first patch is now available: https://www.steinberg.net/index.php?...ralayers_7&L=1

gregh 17th August 2020 11:55 AM

any word from win10 users on the stability of this now?

orange 17th August 2020 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregh (Post 14919831)
any word from win10 users on the stability of this now?

stable enough to buy :)

gregh 17th August 2020 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orange (Post 14919904)
stable enough to buy :)

thanks - i do wish there was a demo/trial still - I got so burnt by version4

orange 17th August 2020 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregh (Post 14919922)
thanks - i do wish there was a demo/trial still - I got so burnt by version4

I did hear that there was a trial due soon (dunno where I heard that though!)

don't some steinberg elicencers come with a 24 hour all product demo licence ? One of my elicencers has one.

gregh 17th August 2020 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orange (Post 14919928)
I did hear that there was a trial due soon (dunno where I heard that though!)

don't some steinberg elicencers come with a 24 hour all product demo licence ? One of my elicencers has one.

no elicencer as I dont have any steinberg software - yet :)

my upgrade from v4 price is probably stable so I am not in any great hurry, will try and wait for a bit and hope that trial comes out.

I really loved what v4 gave in the brief moments it worked - and the feature set is better again now.

Neptune45 17th August 2020 05:03 PM

Thought a demo would have been made available by now. Not heard anything back from Steinberg yet...

karkull 18th August 2020 05:36 AM

Very interested in this, but not without a demo!

gregh 18th August 2020 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karkull (Post 14921305)
Very interested in this, but not without a demo!

someone on another forum who has been using v6 for a while and now v7 suggested waiting until they get the vst hosting right although the main functionality is fairly solid. They are on OSX though and I am on win10 so theremight be some difference because of that

gregh 27th August 2020 11:26 AM

This guy has done a nice comparison with RX, Spectralayers 7 and Demix Pro. I asked in the comments if he found Spectralayers reliable under win10 and he has so that is a good sign. I am thinking I will upgrade my v4 - I really do love working in the spectral domain

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI4HSePlNqA

thenoodle 27th August 2020 07:40 PM

One thing the guy says at the end is "depends on what you want to do"....maybe just quick, effective zapping voice only.

Because he says that, I'd like to present everyone try/discuss phonicmind. It's effectiveness often surprises me. Dunno what they're using as code other than it's not spleeter and it's coded by one guy.


Anyone else run some stuff through phonicmind yet to test?

orange 27th August 2020 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoodle (Post 14937370)

Anyone else run some stuff through phonicmind yet to test?

gave that a quick try - wasn't as effective as spleeter/spectralayers. Only did one demo but lots of spill of vocal on the track and visa versa.

gregh 28th August 2020 04:23 AM

the other thing confusing me is the offers from Magix. It looks as if I could buy their Samplitude Suite and get a full license of Spectralayers 7, then sell off the Samplitude stuff to be left with a complete Spectralayers 7 license which I could then upgrade in years to come as if I had bought it from Steinberg direct. Basically it is cheaper to buy through Magix.
Anyone know if this is correct?

temnov 28th August 2020 05:51 AM

I bought update for my Sony Vegas and got also SL 7 pro and Sound Forge.
Vegas 18 Pro
Sound Forge Pro 14
SpectraLayers 7 Pro
$249 for all

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.co...2IeLBNtkjHJD8P

gregh 28th August 2020 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by temnov (Post 14938157)
I bought update for my Sony Vegas and got also SL 7 pro and Sound Forge.
Vegas 18 Pro
Sound Forge Pro 14
SpectraLayers 7 Pro
$249 for all

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.co...2IeLBNtkjHJD8P

are they all separate licenses or as a bundle that cant be divided? Do you think you can upgrade them individually later if you want.
That is very good value

temnov 28th August 2020 06:51 AM

I think I can as I already got an offer to upgrade to Sound Forge Suite.

All separate licenses.

Part of this package that I bought is also Unveil.

gregh 28th August 2020 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by temnov (Post 14938214)
I think I can as I already got an offer to upgrade to Sound Forge Suite.

All separate licenses.

Part of this package that I bought is also Unveil.

wow - UNVEIL is a great piece of software - that is an incredible value bundle

Neptune45 29th August 2020 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregh (Post 14938225)
wow - UNVEIL is a great piece of software - that is an incredible value bundle

Yeah but it is UNVEIL VEGAS Edition if you look. Still great value though.

I am looking to get SL Pro 7 on the crossgrade path as I have Izotope's RX7. Still would really like a demo first though... Mainly want SL7 for ARA 2 integration with Cubase Pro as RX7 hasn't got it (yet...).

temnov 29th August 2020 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neptune45 (Post 14939830)
Yeah but it is UNVEIL VEGAS Edition if you look. Still great value though.

I am looking to get SL Pro 7 on the crossgrade path as I have Izotope's RX7. Still would really like a demo first though... Mainly want SL7 for ARA 2 integration with Cubase Pro as RX7 hasn't got it (yet...).

Go to macros and create a macro open RX Connect 7, you gonna get it as good as ARA.

I’m impressed with SL 7, and have been using RX advanced since the first version.

Samir 29th August 2020 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neptune45 (Post 14939830)
Yeah but it is UNVEIL VEGAS Edition if you look. Still great value though.

I am looking to get SL Pro 7 on the crossgrade path as I have Izotope's RX7. Still would really like a demo first though... Mainly want SL7 for ARA 2 integration with Cubase Pro as RX7 hasn't got it (yet...).

Izotope announced 8th version yesterday on their YouTube channel. Ig they gonna release it in a week or so. Would be nice if they listened to countless requests for ARA integration after all.