PreSonus announces Studio One 5 - Page 11 - Gearslutz
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PreSonus announces Studio One 5
Old 2nd August 2020
  #301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle007 View Post
Well, I use S1 mainly because of it's great mixer. I hate Logic's mixer.
The tiny insert slots, all channels look the same except for that smal area below which you can colorize, and there is no, and I mean absolutely no undo when mixing. Not on the faders, not on the plugin controls.

Routing is no fun either, as bussing needs to be done manual and you cannot rename them. Or at least I have not been able to find how.

Every time something on my plugin setup changes, Logic is scanning my plugins which takes ages. And the way folder tracks/groups of tracks are displayed in the mixer with I find very confusing. For me it's a constant hunt to find the thing I want to change.

So to me, it's far from easier than in S1. But I've seen people going fast with Logic too, so it's probably just preference and workflow. Except for the lack of undo, once you're used to that, there's no way back.
You can easily do both things in Logic.
To create a buss/aux: In the mixer hit the "output" on a channel and then choose what you want. You can select multiple channels in one go.
To name a buss/aux: In Logic´s mixer window, go to Options > I/O Labels.
Here you can type in custom names. The next time you create new busses/aux your custom names appear on the list.

EDiT: and you can also easily undo mixer- and plugins settings. Open the "Undo history" window and tick "mixer" and "plugin" in the top right corner of the window and you are good to go :-)

Last edited by bluefonia; 2nd August 2020 at 09:25 AM.. Reason: forgot to write something
Old 2nd August 2020
  #302
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eagle007's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluefonia View Post
You can easily do both things in Logic.
To create a buss/aux: In the mixer hit the "output" on a channel and then choose what you want. You can select multiple channels in one go.
To name a buss/aux: In Logic´s mixer window, go to Options > I/O Labels.
Here you can type in custom names. The next time you create new busses/aux your custom names appear on the list.

EDiT: and you can also easily undo mixer- and plugins settings. Open the "Undo history" window and tick "mixer" and "plugin" in the top right corner of the window and you are good to go :-)
The IO labels in audio settings is not quite like the naming option you have in S1. But nice that it is at least possible.

A bit weird that undo on the mixer and plugins is not on by default then. But knowing that this can be done will be a big help next time I have a session to mix in Logic. Thx!
Old 3rd August 2020
  #303
Gear Head
 

So what do you guys think of Studio One 5 so far? I think it's fine. If I were them I would be attacking the songwriter/producer market because it's more creative focus now. Seems like they are trying to do everything. I like Studio One, but it seem's like it still not catching on to modern producers like a FL or Ableton. Maybe it's their marketing or not enough producers/songwriters showcasing it?
Old 4th August 2020
  #304
I can't Update my thumbnails anymore after upgrading to V5. Anyone else?
Old 4th August 2020
  #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
Check out Qmap. I'm using Xtouch, but it's awesome and I assume the same with MC. With the Xtouch plus extender and Console 1 it's IMO better than a D-Command/Icon in terms of functionality, and way better in terms of size/footprint.
I have an old Behringer BCF2000 and in logic it follow the tracks selection. In Studio One it does not, I have no press the bank section to find the highlighted track. Is there any way around this?
Old 4th August 2020
  #306
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Sleazy_Rider's Avatar
 

I’ve just bought a Faderport 16. Gets delivered on Friday.
Old 5th August 2020
  #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rojhmusic View Post
I have an old Behringer BCF2000 and in logic it follow the tracks selection. In Studio One it does not, I have no press the bank section to find the highlighted track. Is there any way around this?
I don't think so with the BFC. With the x-touch and qmap the 9th fader follows either the selected track, or stays on the master. The other faders don't follow based on selected, but they do follow scenes.
Old 5th August 2020
  #308
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poshook's Avatar
Just one idiot question. How to get demo of S1 5.0? Presonus site is somehow confusing
Old 5th August 2020
  #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poshook View Post
Just one idiot question. How to get demo of S1 5.0? Presonus site is somehow confusing
There isn't one yet, usually they wait until first revision, fairly cynical move IMO and Presonus aren't the only ones that do this. V5 has bugs and by offering a demo it would potentially lose them sales. Demo available when software is somewhat stable. Hoping that first adopters will succumb and buy straight away.
Old 5th August 2020
  #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poshook View Post
Just one idiot question. How to get demo of S1 5.0? Presonus site is somehow confusing

One option is to do just one month of Sphere...This way you demo the full program, and it's $15
Old 7th August 2020
  #311
Mix snapshots are a total game changer
Old 7th August 2020
  #312
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHustle33 View Post
I can't Update my thumbnails anymore after upgrading to V5. Anyone else?
That works fine here, except for Soundtoys plugins, for some strange reason.
Old 7th August 2020
  #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyzer View Post
Mix snapshots are a total game changer

It will be when they update to include automation.
Old 7th August 2020
  #314
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maxy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyzer View Post
Mix snapshots are a total game changer
I haven't started using mix snapshots yet. I'm really interested how you're using them to help your work flow?
Old 7th August 2020
  #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxy View Post
I haven't started using mix snapshots yet. I'm really interested how you're using them to help your work flow?
Yea, I haven't had use for it yet, but it's a cool nice-to-have. I don't tend to do multiple versions of a mix, but that may be useful for any recalls where someone wants major changes, but I don't know. I still think like I'd feel more secure having a major recall on a separate project 'save as' for redundancy's sake, rather than two different mix scenes in the same project file.
Old 8th August 2020
  #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleazy_Rider View Post
I’ve just bought a Faderport 16. Gets delivered on Friday.
How its going so far? Any firmware update issues?
Old 8th August 2020
  #317
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eagle007's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackURbody View Post
How its going so far? Any firmware update issues?
I have my Faderport 16 for a year now. Great controller. Did 3 firmware updates till now, no issues.
Old 8th August 2020
  #318
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Can anyone tell me if 5 addressed the previous CPU/multithread issues from 4? The major concern I had with 4 is that any busses are treated a single thread and as a result can max out cores very quickly.

I’d check myself but still no demo...
Old 8th August 2020
  #319
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eagle007's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocolateHawkins View Post
Can anyone tell me if 5 addressed the previous CPU/multithread issues from 4? The major concern I had with 4 is that any busses are treated a single thread and as a result can max out cores very quickly.

I’d check myself but still no demo...
I can tell that the processing on busses is changed dramatically. In 4 when you bounce something on a track with bus plugins enabled or disabled makes a hell of a difference in speed, while the audio is not even going through there.

But ig the threading is changed, not sure. And not sure how to test either.
Old 8th August 2020
  #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle007 View Post
I can tell that the processing on busses is changed dramatically. In 4 when you bounce something on a track with bus plugins enabled or disabled makes a hell of a difference in speed, while the audio is not even going through there.

But ig the threading is changed, not sure. And not sure how to test either.
If you could test for me that would be amazing. Load up 3 track. On each load your heaviest plugins (I use IK Tape and E27) so that it clearly registers on the CPU meter. Then route track 3 to track 2. Does the CPU usage double? Then route track 1 to 3. Does the usage increase again?

I can route all day long in Reaper and it never messes with the core separation. I have an i9 9900k running around 4.70. I should not have CPU issues like this.
Old 8th August 2020
  #321
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eagle007's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocolateHawkins View Post
If you could test for me that would be amazing. Load up 3 track. On each load your heaviest plugins (I use IK Tape and E27) so that it clearly registers on the CPU meter. Then route track 3 to track 2. Does the CPU usage double? Then route track 1 to 3. Does the usage increase again?

I can route all day long in Reaper and it never messes with the core separation. I have an i9 9900k running around 4.70. I should not have CPU issues like this.
I also have a 9900k and have T-Racks 5, so will see if I can test this
Old 8th August 2020
  #322
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eagle007's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocolateHawkins View Post
If you could test for me that would be amazing. Load up 3 track. On each load your heaviest plugins (I use IK Tape and E27) so that it clearly registers on the CPU meter. Then route track 3 to track 2. Does the CPU usage double? Then route track 1 to 3. Does the usage increase again?

I can route all day long in Reaper and it never messes with the core separation. I have an i9 9900k running around 4.70. I should not have CPU issues like this.
Uhm, I never tested this, but routing a few busses into each other and adding a FabFilter L2 on it in 32x oversampling, eats your CPU for breakfast. And indeed only on 1 of my 8 cores.

The busses become totally unresponsive, but I was still able to disable them using the global insert disable button.

This is indeed lazy and inadequate design. So they indeed fixed the unnecessary processing of busses when no audio is passed through it (when bouncing in place), but each audio path from input to master, is processed on 1 dedicated core and this sucks big time.

Now I understand why my latency is raising so fast and my CPU is running hot like hell.
Old 8th August 2020
  #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle007 View Post
Uhm, I never tested this, but routing a few busses into each other and adding a FabFilter L2 on it in 32x oversampling, eats your CPU for breakfast. And indeed only on 1 of my 8 cores.

The busses become totally unresponsive, but I was still able to disable them using the global insert disable button.

This is indeed lazy and inadequate design. So they indeed fixed the unnecessary processing of busses when no audio is passed through it (when bouncing in place), but each audio path from input to master, is processed on 1 dedicated core and this sucks big time.

Now I understand why my latency is raising so fast and my CPU is running hot like hell.
Thank you SO much. This confirms several things for me. Mostly that my rig is fine and the benchmarks were accurate. And that S1 doesn’t handle bussing well AT ALL. It dumps everything to a single core when you start routing.

I can get my machine pinning at 80-90% by doing this in S1. Just routing a few things to each other. No audio playing.

In Reaper I can do the same and my machine will hover around 20% and all cores are distributed evenly.
Old 8th August 2020
  #324
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eagle007's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocolateHawkins View Post
If you could test for me that would be amazing. Load up 3 track. On each load your heaviest plugins (I use IK Tape and E27) so that it clearly registers on the CPU meter. Then route track 3 to track 2. Does the CPU usage double? Then route track 1 to 3. Does the usage increase again?

I can route all day long in Reaper and it never messes with the core separation. I have an i9 9900k running around 4.70. I should not have CPU issues like this.
I actually never had any issues with larger mixes (but did with VSTi's and premixing), so I did a new test:

I created several busses, each in a pair to a sub bus. And these sub busses to another bus and that to the main.

But the strange thing here is, that this does not give any trouble at all, and results in a perfectly even distributed CPU load over my 8 cores.

Then I created the same channel chain, but now 4. Turning them on fills 1 core. Then I routed an addition channel to each of these channels and it distributes fine.

Never really thought of this, but remember seeing some discussions on Logic X having similar behavior. And there it was said to be done to reduce the overhead on context switching. But having worked on the Meda player, and OS framework of the BeOS/Zeta OS, this sounds like nonsense to me. It's an incomplete audio buffer design. And it's very complicated and tricky to do this well as the output of one channel depends on that of the previous one. So it's technically impossible to process these channels simultaneously on different cores. But they could spread the processing over multiple cores anyway. Latency would not drop, but CPU load might.

But I don't think I will every use a chain of 5 Fab L2's on 32x oversampling channels in a real mixing scenario though
Old 8th August 2020
  #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle007 View Post
I actually never had any issues with larger mixes (but did with VSTi's and premixing), so I did a new test:

I created several busses, each in a pair to a sub bus. And these sub busses to another bus and that to the main.

But the strange thing here is, that this does not give any trouble at all, and results in a perfectly even distributed CPU load over my 8 cores.

Then I created the same channel chain, but now 4. Turning them on fills 1 core. Then I routed an addition channel to each of these channels and it distributes fine.

Never really thought of this, but remember seeing some discussions on Logic X having similar behavior. And there it was said to be done to reduce the overhead on context switching. But having worked on the Meda player, and OS framework of the BeOS/Zeta OS, this sounds like nonsense to me. It's an incomplete audio buffer design. And it's very complicated and tricky to do this well as the output of one channel depends on that of the previous one. So it's technically impossible to process these channels simultaneously on different cores. But they could spread the processing over multiple cores anyway. Latency would not drop, but CPU load might.

But I don't think I will every use a chain of 5 Fab L2's on 32x oversampling channels in a real mixing scenario though
Sorry I don’t fully follow what you’re describing in the routing that is problematic and the routing that is not. Can you post some pictures?

You were able to recreate the issue I had though, correct?

I’m able to do whatever I want routing-wise in Reaper and it remains evenly distributed across my cores. There are no tricks to get it to work or things I can’t do. So, complexity aside, it is possible.

One thing I haven’t tried in S1 is treating the bus like a parallel send but turning the send to master off for that channel. This isn’t ideal but I would be interested to see the results. I’ll give that a try tonight and report back.

EDIT: Yeah it doesn't matter which way you route, whether using a send or routing. I just tried the send method and got the same core issues.
Old 8th August 2020
  #326
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eagle007's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocolateHawkins View Post
You were able to recreate the issue I had though, correct?
Yes, that gives issues in S1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocolateHawkins View Post
Sorry I don’t fully follow what you’re describing in the routing that is problematic and the routing that is not. Can you post some pictures?
What you described, and overload 1 core is a plain series:

Bus1 -> Bus2 -> Bus3 -> MAIN

What I meant, and does not give issues, is a series of parallel busses:

Bus1a + Bus1b -> Bus1
Bus2a + Bus2b -> Bus2
Bus3a + Bus3b -> Bus3

Then

Bus1 + Bus2 + Bus3 -> Bus4 -> Main

A lot more plugins, but less CPU load.

I understand what's going 'wrong' now, so will try to find some time to write a technical analysis for Presonus and send it to them. Hopefully they will do something with it.
Old 9th August 2020
  #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle007 View Post
Yes, that gives issues in S1.



What you described, and overload 1 core is a plain series:

Bus1 -> Bus2 -> Bus3 -> MAIN

What I meant, and does not give issues, is a series of parallel busses:

Bus1a + Bus1b -> Bus1
Bus2a + Bus2b -> Bus2
Bus3a + Bus3b -> Bus3

Then

Bus1 + Bus2 + Bus3 -> Bus4 -> Main

A lot more plugins, but less CPU load.

I understand what's going 'wrong' now, so will try to find some time to write a technical analysis for Presonus and send it to them. Hopefully they will do something with it.
I was able to recreate most of this. Both are problematic, but the second layout runs about the same CPU as the first. Load balancing still wasn’t great on the cores with it favouring one.

You sound like you know what’s going on from a technical perspective. What’s happening here? I understand in most DAWS one channel = one core but bussing should be different, no?
Old 9th August 2020
  #328
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eagle007's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocolateHawkins View Post
You sound like you know what’s going on from a technical perspective. What’s happening here? I understand in most DAWS one channel = one core but bussing should be different, no?
They are processing audio paths from input to output as one chain on a dedicated core. This is the easiest way to make sure you process dependent plugins in the correct order for correct sound.

You cannot start processing the audio on a bus, when the audio from the channels linking into it are not yet done. With analog, audio just flows through. But in digital, audio is processed in buckets of a certain size. The buckets are called buffers, and the size is set in the audio settings.

So audio comes in a buffer. This buffer is passed to the plugins on the channel, one after another. Then fed into the output channel and to busses set by a send value, and so on, till everything is processed after the master fader and the buffer is send to the sound output.

In most cases the audio passed to the plugins on one channel are indeed processed on one core. According to Apple, the benefit is that it takes less overhead in context switching (a technical process need with multi-threading) and is therefore faster. I actually never benchmarkt this, so I have to assume they are right.

But in Studio one, not only the channel is on a single core, it just keeps passing the audio buffers through the whole chain till it reaches the output on a single core.

Fixing it is not an easy thing to do, as every take on it, has its own advantages and disadvantages. So it comes down to benchmarking and compromises.

Only the way it's done now in S1 is not the best way, as it's not uncommon for a vocal chain for example to have many plugins feeding into various sends and busses.
Old 9th August 2020
  #329
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Sleazy_Rider's Avatar
 

Does anyone know how to disable the main channel in FP16 so I can just use my FP1...?
Old 10th August 2020
  #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyzer View Post
Mix snapshots are a total game changer
Why? What are they doing for you? How are you using them?
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