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Plugin Alliance Release AMEK EQ 200
Old 24th May 2020
  #361
Gear Maniac
 
Illusionaire's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanic View Post
Usually when somebody becomes the target of ridicule it's not just the people ridiculing you that need to take a good hard look at why they are doing it.

For instance, Plugin Alliance or actually Brainworx more specifically are known for ludicrous amounts of hyperbole and complete nonsense. For instance, early on when Brainworx made their first plugins they virtually claimed that they invented Mid/Side processing and marketed it very hard.

Not only has M/S recording and decoding and any processing inbetween been known since almost 100 years back but it had already been implemented in various plugins way before Brainworx even entered the scene. Extensive use of mid/side processing in plugins fame probably falls to mr Aleksey Vaneev of Voxengo.. not Brainworx. Yet they tried to market it very aggressively as their invention.

Same with this whole TMT component tolerance crap. It's just a marketing ploy for the most part and at least in my opinion it's extremely annoying how over the top they make it.

My point is: Plugin Alliance are digging their own grave with the extremely aggressive hyperbole and sometimes 100% downright lies in the marketing.

If you use extraordinary claims of excellence and go for the marketing strategy they use, you'll always see quite a lot of push back. Just look at how Slate is treated here. Having said that, bold words and incredible amounts of hyperbole seems to be the way to go for the masses. A large portion of the general population will never question things. Instead they choose to simply trust and obey. The strategy works. Every strongman wannabe Dirktator in the world knows this.
Couldn't agree more. And it's good that you give credit to Akeskey Vaneev. MSED was and still is a great tool. Voxengo plugins were always very innovative and well designed, and I think the only reason they are not well known is lack of marketing. I remember plugins like the Soniformer, being in the market long before most multiband compressors and dynamic eq's. And it still is a different beast with its own intelligent workflow.

This all reminds me of a banner advertisement of U-he, I once saw here on GS. It was just a B&W photo of Urs Heckmann looking somewhere off-camera, some abstract knobs of a synth, and the phrase: "U-he: We design software synthesizers and effects".
That's it! And the guys even have Jane Michelle Jarre using one of their plugins. I mean they don't have to prove anything, being already so established in the market, but it looks very professional that they just put their creations out there and let the user decide how good they are. No big words but top quality and stable prices which also shows a more professional approach. No deviations between 400 and 30€ for the same plugin.
Old 24th May 2020
  #362
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJHollins View Post
or the IGNORE ROOM is gonna get loaded up.
I believe the full name of the “ignore room” is “Plugin Alliance POSITIVE audiophiles and fans.”

Old 24th May 2020
  #363
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanic View Post
Usually when somebody becomes the target of ridicule it's not just the people ridiculing you that need to take a good hard look at why they are doing it.

For instance, Plugin Alliance or actually Brainworx more specifically are known for ludicrous amounts of hyperbole and complete nonsense. For instance, early on when Brainworx made their first plugins they virtually claimed that they invented Mid/Side processing and marketed it very hard.

Not only has M/S recording and decoding and any processing inbetween been known since almost 100 years back but it had already been implemented in various plugins way before Brainworx even entered the scene. Extensive use of mid/side processing in plugins fame probably falls to mr Aleksey Vaneev of Voxengo.. not Brainworx. Yet they tried to market it very aggressively as their invention.

Same with this whole TMT component tolerance crap. It's just a marketing ploy for the most part and at least in my opinion it's extremely annoying how over the top they make it.

My point is: Plugin Alliance are digging their own grave with the extremely aggressive hyperbole and sometimes 100% downright lies in the marketing.

If you use extraordinary claims of excellence and go for the marketing strategy they use, you'll always see quite a lot of push back. Just look at how Slate is treated here. Having said that, bold words and incredible amounts of hyperbole seems to be the way to go for the masses. A large portion of the general population will never question things. Instead they choose to simply trust and obey. The strategy works. Every strongman wannabe Dirktator in the world knows this.
I agree with most of what you say but i think Waves was actually the first to implement M/S processing in plugins.their S1 MS Matrix was around pretty early in the game along with unlinked L-R in a lot of the Q and C plugins to take advantage of said matrix.either way.a decade or so before Brainworx
Old 24th May 2020
  #364
plx
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Idontcare View Post
I agree with most of what you say but i think Waves was actually the first to implement M/S processing in plugins.their S1 MS Matrix was around pretty early in the game along with unlinked L-R in a lot of the Q and C plugins to take advantage of said matrix.either way.a decade or so before Brainworx
Voxengo however has had optional m/s routing on every plugin since forever
Its still there. Predates MSED.
Old 24th May 2020
  #365
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Idontcare View Post
I agree with most of what you say but i think Waves was actually the first to implement M/S processing in plugins.their S1 MS Matrix was around pretty early in the game along with unlinked L-R in a lot of the Q and C plugins to take advantage of said matrix.either way.a decade or so before Brainworx
This may indeed be true. Waves were incredibly early in the whole plugin game and innovated in the scene. They definitely deserve much respect for that. Way before the VST format was even created.

Anybody remember the good old DX plugins format on Windows?
Old 24th May 2020
  #366
Gear Nut
 
UltraByte's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constant_K View Post
Speaking for myself the grubby feeling isn't from entitlement it's from their questionable marketing strategies and "community management" but I agree with both your points.

Another trend I notice is that when prices drop to sub $50 the plugins (and company) suddenly become "aliased trash", "lackluster emulations" or "generic sounding" even tho they were well received and reviewed at launch or when prices were high across the board. Grinds my gears.

If Softube or Slate or whoever went the $30 a plugin route it would happen to them.
thats true. one of the main conclusions from the ultimate plugin analysis thread was that the price or company size doesnt really matter regarding plugin quality.
best to check yourself during the demo, iE check what it does (plugin doctor) and compare (hofa 4U+ free autoleveling blindtest).

i cant find the post anymore but someone wrote MJUC sounds worse comparing to another compressor because its "cheap". those users are well legitimate to buy whatever they fancy if it makes them "feel the sound" better, but man they do indeed deserve any $ paying more for sometimes less.

edit: oh wow i found the "cheapness" post:
Pulsar Audio releases Mu, the ultimate glue compressor

made my day.
Old 24th May 2020
  #367
Gear Nut
 
UltraByte's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanic View Post
This may indeed be true. Waves were incredibly early in the whole plugin game and innovated in the scene. They definitely deserve much respect for that. Way before the VST format was even created.

Anybody remember the good old DX plugins format on Windows?
yes and if you also use reaper you have DX plugins popping up in your plugin search left and right when it finds sony vegas installed on your system

its interesting to read what Fabien from TDR writes regarding Waves coding in the plugin analysis thread. (it was regarding reacomp). he gives them credit regarding the actual coding. they may have partially terrible UIs for todays standard but they do know their stuff.
Old 24th May 2020
  #368
Lives for gear
 
b0se's Avatar
Voxengo plugins are woefully underrated. Recently bought the premium bundle (on offer) and am delighted with all the gems in it.
Old 24th May 2020
  #369
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanic View Post
This may indeed be true. Waves were incredibly early in the whole plugin game and innovated in the scene. They definitely deserve much respect for that. Way before the VST format was even created.

Anybody remember the good old DX plugins format on Windows?
Still using it unless Steinberg have a change of heart and release a Native version of Quadrafuzz so i dont have to use buggy DX shells.i use a few other DX plugins too,but that would be the main one
Old 24th May 2020
  #370
Lives for gear
 
spectacular g's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
Voxengo plugins are woefully underrated. Recently bought the premium bundle (on offer) and am delighted with all the gems in it.
Soniformer-OVC-Elephant was used a lot yesterday.

B
Old 24th May 2020
  #371
Lives for gear
 
Eigenwert's Avatar
Is there a 2nd AMEK EQ 200? As there was an email this morning in my inbox. PA are no spammers, are they?
Old 24th May 2020
  #372
plx
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
Voxengo plugins are woefully underrated. Recently bought the premium bundle (on offer) and am delighted with all the gems in it.
yeah, i found some stuff there i'd never would have bought otherwise
Voxformer for example and drumformer.

I'm vary of Soniformer tho, it can icky with phase.
Old 24th May 2020
  #373
Gear Maniac
 
Constant_K's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Durk Diggler View Post
Well, I might have different expectations than some people. I did not find their facebook group interesting before they made it positive only. Bootlickers have been mentioned, which is fair, but what has not been mentioned is the doom prophets which cannot be pleased even if plugins somehow sucked their [email protected] and did their laundry everyday.

I could assume what you mean, but it is probably easier to ask you; what you mean by questionable marketing strategies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Durk Diggler View Post
Dear chumps and other victims of plugin sales, if you find the e-mails from PA to be agressive marketing, unsub their e-mails now.
Yeah there was an incident recently where they said the sales would be ending which was a clear attempt to leverage people onto subscription, then they quickly backtracked. They changed the rewards vouchers to a minimum spend, gave a spurious reason and implemented imperfect solution when a much more obvious solution was available (link rewards to accounts). The whole voucher system is in of itself manipulative and unnecessary IMO and then the various gaffes around customer care and on social media. Obviously how they handled the Amek launch was also terrible. I'm sure I've forgotten a tonne of stuff too; you see it's not just about their emails, which i don't read and other direct marketing, there is constant drama and goalpost shifting; it's all unnecessary.

Just sell your product at the price that is going to give you the maximum profit and drop the coercion. It ain't rocket science.
Old 24th May 2020
  #374
Lives for gear
 
Sleazy_Rider's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constant_K View Post
Yeah there was an incident recently where they said the sales would be ending which was a clear attempt to leverage people onto subscription, then they quickly backtracked. They changed the rewards vouchers to a minimum spend, gave a spurious reason and implemented imperfect solution when a much more obvious solution was available (link rewards to accounts). The whole voucher system is in of itself manipulative and unnecessary IMO and then the various gaffes around customer care and on social media. Obviously how they handled the Amek launch was also terrible. I'm sure I've forgotten a tonne of stuff too; you see it's not just about their emails, which i don't read and other direct marketing, there is constant drama and goalpost shifting; it's all unnecessary.

Just sell your product at the price that is going to give you the maximum profit and drop the coercion. It ain't rocket science.
The the voucher sharing and selling was one of the reasons PA went to the minimum spend of the vouchers....

Then days later vouchers were sent out and in the email it said please share these vouchers with your friends.

Then we had the 29.99 vouchers for all plugins...then we had the voucher cashback with the sub model...Then we had, as you say the AMEK exclusive to sub model after sending out vouchers previously stating you could spend them on all the new releases.

Then we had the really high insulting Intro price....Then you have the dynamic discount if you buy more plugins...then we have the multiple sub models...then we have Chaos.

Its Drama after Drama with PA and it is unnecessary...But they are in a catch 22

They want people to sub and yet want people to buy....

Why not just do what Soundtoys and Fabfilter and Valhalla do....

Look at waves and their never end sale model....I ditched waves cause of the rubbish installer, Wup and BS licencing....

At least PA have this area covered and are the best in the business. The PA installer and licencing model is perfect IMO...Its a shame about all the other nonsense....
Old 24th May 2020
  #375
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constant_K View Post
I'm sure I've forgotten a tonne of stuff too; you see it's not just about their emails, which i don't read and other direct marketing, there is constant drama and goalpost shifting; it's all unnecessary.
The one thing that really pushed me away from them was more recently; I'd submitted a support ticket, had no response for several weeks then on May 7th saw a post in their Facebook group stating that they were deleting all of their open support tickets, they blamed customers for submitting too many support tickets, and said that people would have to resubmit them if they still had an issue. Yes, they have since resolved it, but hat if I wasn't part of their group?

Why did this happen? Because they didn't have enough staff to handle support. This was utterly unavoidable, and even if they had got themselves into that position, they should be diverting Dev or QA staff onto helping with bug related tickets so their support staff could deal with sales issues.

They're putting all their effort into marketing and signing people up to a subscription to give them a consistent stream of income and then ignoring those very customers.

For what it's worth, I don't have a vendetta against PA and I still own and use some of their products. I genuinely hope that they listen to their less sycophantic customers and improve because of it.

Unfortunately, they don't seem to want to improve or hear people issues with the censorship of their Facebook group. They still seem solely focussed on marketing rather than helping the customers that got them where they are today.
Old 24th May 2020
  #376
Gear Maniac
 
Durk Diggler's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constant_K View Post
I'm sure I've forgotten a tonne of stuff too; you see it's not just about their emails, which i don't read and other direct marketing, there is constant drama and goalpost shifting; it's all unnecessary.
Yes, they are they are more eager to sell than several other companies. I will unsub e-mails and unfollow the socials of companies I find annoying. That way I am not annoyed and .. those who wish to get e-mails and marketing from their socials .. can do so. Problem solved for me and for others who wish to do so. For those who think or feel it is a problem and do not want it solved, good luck with not just PA but also with life in general.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constant_K View Post
Just sell your product at the price that is going to give you the maximum profit and drop the coercion. It ain't rocket science.
I see some comments mentioning North Korea and Dirktator, and I wonder, is PA free to do business with those who wish to do business with PA?

The bottom line is this, the customer has the power to do business or not. This is where the true power is located.
Old 24th May 2020
  #377
Lives for gear
 
M Albazy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
Voxengo plugins are woefully underrated. Recently bought the premium bundle (on offer) and am delighted with all the gems in it.
I love their free r8brain, been using it for ages, one of the best sample-rate conversion with 0 trouble.
Old 24th May 2020
  #378
Lives for gear
 
b0se's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Albazy View Post
I love their free r8brain, been using it for ages, one of the best sample-rate conversion with 0 trouble.
Windows only unfortunately! But yeah, measures very well.
Old 24th May 2020
  #379
I've been satisfied with the quality, service, and cost of the PA sub model (which was $179). I mix (and record) about 200 songs a year.
Old 24th May 2020
  #380
Lives for gear
 
Bouroki's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by M Albazy View Post
I love their free r8brain, been using it for ages, one of the best sample-rate conversion with 0 trouble.
Didn't it dull the highs a bit (IIRC)?

Edit: Yeah from this link https://src.infinitewave.ca/ the free versions of r8brain are -6dB at 20kHz
Old 24th May 2020
  #381
Gear Guru
 
Jeezo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanic View Post
This may indeed be true. Waves were incredibly early in the whole plugin game and innovated in the scene. They definitely deserve much respect for that. Way before the VST format was even created.

Anybody remember the good old DX plugins format on Windows?
Man do you remeber the the converter DX to vst and vice versa ? lol good old dayz !!
Old 24th May 2020
  #382
Lives for gear
 
M Albazy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bouroki View Post
Didn't it dull the highs a bit (IIRC)?

Edit: Yeah from this link https://src.infinitewave.ca/ the free versions of r8brain are -6dB at 20kHz
Yes it does but also produces a much softer/smoother cut than the very steep filters. But I only use it when mixing on single tracks, not masters.
Old 24th May 2020
  #383
Lives for gear
 
M Albazy's Avatar
Another POSITIVE FAN review;




Reviews these days are just a walkthrough and repeating what is already said on the product page .. and talk a little about the heritage of the HARDWARE!!!
Old 24th May 2020
  #384
Lives for gear
 
Eigenwert's Avatar
Is the NSEQ-2 still worth it in 2020? I think I don‘t have an M/S EQ. The actual price should be around 16,80€ incl. VAT according to my calculations.
Old 24th May 2020
  #385
Lives for gear
 
Bouroki's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by M Albazy View Post
Another POSITIVE FAN review;




Reviews these days are just a walkthrough and repeating what is already said on the product page .. and talk a little about the heritage of the HARDWARE!!!
"Mastering Grade" means nothing nowadays apparently
Old 24th May 2020
  #386
Lives for gear
 
M Albazy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bouroki View Post
"Mastering Grade" means nothing nowadays apparently
No wonder why kids nowadays want their master done at $25 a track!

The idea of anyone can do mastering just because they have some so-called 'mastering grade plugins' totally ruined the mastering industry.
Old 24th May 2020
  #387
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanic View Post
Usually when somebody becomes the target of ridicule it's not just the people ridiculing you that need to take a good hard look at why they are doing it.

For instance, Plugin Alliance or actually Brainworx more specifically are known for ludicrous amounts of hyperbole and complete nonsense. For instance, early on when Brainworx made their first plugins they virtually claimed that they invented Mid/Side processing and marketed it very hard.

Not only has M/S recording and decoding and any processing inbetween been known since almost 100 years back but it had already been implemented in various plugins way before Brainworx even entered the scene. Extensive use of mid/side processing in plugins fame probably falls to mr Aleksey Vaneev of Voxengo.. not Brainworx. Yet they tried to market it very aggressively as their invention.

Same with this whole TMT component tolerance crap. It's just a marketing ploy for the most part and at least in my opinion it's extremely annoying how over the top they make it.

My point is: Plugin Alliance are digging their own grave with the extremely aggressive hyperbole and sometimes 100% downright lies in the marketing.

If you use extraordinary claims of excellence and go for the marketing strategy they use, you'll always see quite a lot of push back. Just look at how Slate is treated here. Having said that, bold words and incredible amounts of hyperbole seems to be the way to go for the masses. A large portion of the general population will never question things. Instead they choose to simply trust and obey. The strategy works. Every strongman wannabe Dirktator in the world knows this.
I guess I don't personally see that much difference between PA's marketing copy and anyone else's marketing copy, but I also don't pay as close attention to it as many here seem to! Anyway, I respect everyone's opinions here, but it would be amazing if there was something that PA could do to make amends with the people they have offended so we can all spend less time talking about marketing and economics, which, let's be honest, is nobody's expertise on this forum, cause that sht is BORING af and we all prefer music and software.

Old 24th May 2020
  #388
Lives for gear
 
Eigenwert's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eigenwert View Post
Is the NSEQ-2 still worth it in 2020? I think I don‘t have an M/S EQ. The actual price should be around 16,80€ incl. VAT according to my calculations.
The Curve Bender actually has M/S
Old 24th May 2020
  #389
plx
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by trackbout View Post
I guess I don't personally see that much difference between PA's marketing copy and anyone else's marketing copy, but I also don't pay as close attention to it as many here seem to! Anyway, I respect everyone's opinions here, but it would be amazing if there was something that PA could do to make amends with the people they have offended so we can all spend less time talking about marketing and economics, which, let's be honest, is nobody's expertise on this forum, cause that sht is BORING af and we all prefer music and software.

Not charge more for a license transfer than their weekend warriors cost

Not charge minimum 32$ for a 25$ voucher so you can actually use a voucher for license transfer cost

Not price their stuff an imaginary 399$ and dump them for 15$ after couple of months

Listen to customers who have bug reports or suggestions and not berate them and mark them as "negative"

plenty of what they could do
Old 24th May 2020
  #390
Gear Maniac
i love advertising...in every video
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