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Plugin Alliance Release AMEK EQ 200
Old 23rd May 2020
  #331
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by trackbout View Post
haha! i'm honestly just trying to understand. maybe not worth it.
Maybe some unfortunates will pay full price.
Old 23rd May 2020
  #332
Lives for gear
 
biksonije's Avatar
 

I'm reading last few posts how this chunkednon a pile from a few older tools. Or how pieces of code were scrambled together and stirred quickly to get this out. Or THD or anything mentioned in last 4 or 5 posts.

Do you really mean this you guys? Do you really think PA or any company who does DSP and develops code scams users this way?

Don't get me wrong, I 'm not saying you're way off. Neither I'm saying this is not possible. Actually I'm puzzled how did you all come up with that? What made you to this conclusion?

Does PA really takes tens or hundreds of thousands of their paying users by the nose and makes us all fools?

It would be nice if some people involved in code creation or developing PA's digital tools get in here and kill this accusations. Or shed a light on PA's plugins in question.

Personally, I like some of their tools and find them really good and helpful. Not yet demoed AMEK, not yet had spare time to test it on many different sources. I will. But this thread has gone to a certain direction and there's no turning back now.

As I mentioned some devs would be nice to swing by and give some insight (thou PA or any dev is not obligated to say anything but go and try plugin and if you like it, buy it!) like Fabien from TDR frequently chimes in and discuss on anything if asked by any user. Of course, trolls are not welcomed.

Stay safe all and keep on making good sh***t! ;-)
Old 23rd May 2020
  #333
Gear Addict
 
BlackRooster's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Walsh View Post
Looking forward to testing this later! We've had such a good time with all the new compressors - now it's time for the EQ's!!!
Hold ON! As there is one last Compressor for you to test. KH-COMP1 coming up in about 2-3 weeks. Don't miss to test the "beast". Cheers.

*flying back to moderate price section*
Old 23rd May 2020
  #334
Lives for gear
 
M Albazy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by biksonije View Post
I'm reading last few posts how this chunkednon a pile from a few older tools. Or how pieces of code were scrambled together and stirred quickly to get this out. Or THD or anything mentioned in last 4 or 5 posts.

Do you really mean this you guys? Do you really think PA or any company who does DSP and develops code scams users this way?

Don't get me wrong, I 'm not saying you're way off. Neither I'm saying this is not possible. Actually I'm puzzled how did you all come up with that? What made you to this conclusion?

Does PA really takes tens or hundreds of thousands of their paying users by the nose and makes us all fools?

It would be nice if some people involved in code creation or developing PA's digital tools get in here and kill this accusations. Or shed a light on PA's plugins in question.

Personally, I like some of their tools and find them really good and helpful. Not yet demoed AMEK, not yet had spare time to test it on many different sources. I will. But this thread has gone to a certain direction and there's no turning back now.

As I mentioned some devs would be nice to swing by and give some insight (thou PA or any dev is not obligated to say anything but go and try plugin and if you like it, buy it!) like Fabien from TDR frequently chimes in and discuss on anything if asked by any user. Of course, trolls are not welcomed.

Stay safe all and keep on making good sh***t! ;-)
When you promise a gamechanger tool that will be the next generation of all the EQs, but then show-up with an average EQ that even their old bx_digital v3 can match it and tagged with a ridiculous price then this what happen.

Big developers like PA and Waves they have a framework which contains libs and pre-coded functions..etc.etc they don't code every new plugin from scratch as that will be too expensive. And this explains why for example Waves has a certain house-sound the same applies to PA and UAD...etc. they use the same bits of codes many times when developing new plugins. This is also true for the web-developing and smartphone apps and all software developing in general. Have a look for JUCE framework.
Old 23rd May 2020
  #335
Lives for gear
 
biksonije's Avatar
 

I don't think for a second that already coded formulas for this or that can be saved for future purposes. But in what percentage does this applies if you're after modelling one box that hasn't been modeled yet? That's pure scam than! Right?

I was thinking more rethorical how good and healthy would be if someone with knowledge chimes in and address some of the statements. With knowledge like someone from PA team of devs. Because if PA really sells crap like this you and others mentioned and passing that as "newly acquired brand" or "modelled after X eq" then this is real BS.
Old 23rd May 2020
  #336
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biksonije's Avatar
 

I don't think for a second that already coded formulas for this or that can be saved for future purposes. But in what percentage does this applies if you're after modelling one box that hasn't been modeled yet? That's pure scam than! Right?

I was thinking more rethorical how good and healthy would be if someone with knowledge chimes in and address some of the statements. With knowledge like someone from PA team of devs. Because if PA really sells crap like this you and others mentioned and passing that as "newly acquired brand" or "modelled after X eq" then this is real BS.
Old 23rd May 2020
  #337
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M Albazy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by biksonije View Post
I don't think for a second that already coded formulas for this or that can be saved for future purposes. But in what percentage does this applies if you're after modelling one box that hasn't been modeled yet? That's pure scam than! Right?

I was thinking more rethorical how good and healthy would be if someone with knowledge chimes in and address some of the statements. With knowledge like someone from PA team of devs. Because if PA really sells crap like this you and others mentioned and passing that as "newly acquired brand" or "modelled after X eq" then this is real BS.
Search for the JUCE platform to get the idea of how the framework works and why devs use them all the time. Big devs usually have their own framework that they use for every new plugin.
Old 23rd May 2020
  #338
Gear Maniac
Maybe my ears are not so good for this, but the THD on the SSL Channelstrips is the same... And this praised TMT thing is nonsense in a mastering EQ...sry
Old 23rd May 2020
  #339
plx
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlogicUser View Post
Maybe my ears are not so good for this, but the THD on the SSL Channelstrips is the same... And this praised TMT thing is nonsense in a mastering EQ...sry
also the neves, and also bx_2098.
the THD on Amek corresponds with ~X% wet (parallel processing) but same THD algo as everywhere else.

focusrite has a different THD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Topsoul182 View Post
How are you able to test that? Ive always wanted to see how different the saturation was between the various SSL Channels and other various consoles
ddmf plugin doctor, oscilloscope, a lot of sine waves
Old 23rd May 2020
  #340
Lives for gear
 
biksonije's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by M Albazy View Post
Search for the JUCE platform to get the idea of how the framework works and why devs use them all the time. Big devs usually have their own framework that they use for every new plugin.
I hear you. And I have been reading (before this) about different coding approaches in VST development. Not that I know first thing about coding and any language/tools for that matter. ;-) But I understand you. And where you directed me to.

But hey, here's my thinking. If all that is true as stated in last few posts then PA and similar devs are scaming people big time. Why? Well, first off, there's nothing wrong using "snippets" or "libs" or "Lego parts" for that matter. Right? As long as those Lego parts are created new and developed for real. Not BS. So, again, lib here, lib there... I'm OK with that and I can understand it. I too use all sorts of "helpers" on my job every day. Parts that someone else has created to help me create my thing. But what IS NOT right is stating one thing and selling other. And I will tell you what I mean here. So, if there hasn't yet been developed particular EQ (as one we are talking about here) that means there shouldn't be used Q control or Curve Shape from already developed plugin saying that new final EQ has been modeled after physical box, component by component. When it actually wasn't. Right? In other words, behaviour of something that hasn't been developed (yet) can be characterized as... what? BS? Scam? Fraud?

On the other hand, if previously developed libs (parts) are used and altered afterwards to portrait some other components or circuit is that scam then? You see, one person here out of thousand (or whatever the super small ratio is) or who knows how many really can really say that this plugin sounds like a real life box. Because they have never ever seen one. Or heard one in real life.

I am pretty biased here. I love some of PA's tools very much and find them really nicely done. I think that digital audio tool development is not a child's play. It's real hard work and years and years of practice, testing, adjusting, testing... and testing. And testing. Using existing libs and modifying them or creating new from scratch? Oh well, of copy-paste principle was used then PA should be ashamed and return money to their customers. If that wasn't the case then all people here in this thread and this forum should ask themselves are they pis**d on PA because it doesn't sound like a real life box or is it the price tag that is bothering them really. ;-)
Old 24th May 2020
  #341
Gear Head
 

I only stated that it was almost certainly cheap (relative to other plugins) to r&d and develop. Just because something is cheap to manufacture doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not valuable.

If you compare it to something like Soundtheory Gullfoss, Sonnox Drum Gate, Waves oVox; all these products would have taken significant r&d because they’re unique and highly complex, they’re not just another EQ with different curves, some pseudo-random realism, noise and a basic waveshaper.

These are all cheaper than the Amek, however, you may not need these as often as an EQ and therefore might not be as valuable to you.

To be clear, I don’t think the Amek is anything special or worth anywhere near that asking price, but I wouldn’t go as far as to call it a scam.
Old 24th May 2020
  #342
Lives for gear
 
biksonije's Avatar
 

Sure, some of these tools you've mentioned certainly are new and fresh.
Old 24th May 2020
  #343
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Eigenwert's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nichttuntun View Post
Lucky you
Do you enjoy it still?
Finally I really fell in love with the Curve Bender plugin on distorted Avalon acid synth
Old 24th May 2020
  #344
Deleted 9949851
Guest
The only thing I get from this thread is that PA is now the favorite whipping-company on GS.

You're able to demo the plugin for free and make up your own minds whether you want to buy it or not. Acting like the release of this plugin is some personal affront to you or anyone else is well beyond the pale.

A little secret: PA wasn't on the grassy knoll either.
Old 24th May 2020
  #345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strangechild View Post
The only thing I get from this thread is that PA is now the favorite whipping-company on GS.

You're able to demo the plugin for free and make up your own minds whether you want to buy it or not. Acting like the release of this plugin is some personal affront to you or anyone else is well beyond the pale.

A little secret: PA wasn't on the grassy knoll either.
It is truly bizarre how emotional some people are about this company. I don't think it's most of GS though, just an extremely vocal minority.
Old 24th May 2020
  #346
Gear Maniac
 
Constant_K's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strangechild View Post
The only thing I get from this thread is that PA is now the favorite whipping-company on GS.

You're able to demo the plugin for free and make up your own minds whether you want to buy it or not. Acting like the release of this plugin is some personal affront to you or anyone else is well beyond the pale.

A little secret: PA wasn't on the grassy knoll either.
I mean it's been that way since the sales started. I can't talk cause I only bought in when the sales started, LOL!

Bonus points if you remember the Future Music review of Digital v2 when BW were the second coming of the plugin world and there were no sales.

I still use a tonne of their stuff cause it's great (same with waves) but you can't shake that grubby feeling IMO (waves are a corporate monolith tho so easier to irrationally hate). It's not at all rational but it's there mostly because of the marketing stunts. Like I said I'm totally grateful for the sales but I'm conflicted when they foul up unnecessarily.

If they keep having sales I'm gonna keep buying sh*t tho...
Old 24th May 2020
  #347
Lives for gear
 

Another vote for the Curve Bender instead of AMEK EQ. Half the price too right now.
Old 24th May 2020
  #348
Gear Guru
 
Jeezo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by M2E View Post
Yeah, not really sure of the Digigrid either due to not a lot of support, not really into buying Waves that much anymore due to weird upgrade and wack practices.

Antelope looks promising but you can only do 6 plugins per unit or something like that? Is that true?

UAD seems cools but then I feel like I'm buying into Pro Tools HD again but, I guess that will always be the case.

Let's see when I get the processor upgrade if that will be enough. Hopefully it will for a while.

Thanks as always my friend, Marc
Lol Marc when i said digigrid has a fan , i m talking about me but fan that makes fan noise lol ... i m far from being a fan of this lol...

So i guess stay native and put exyra in HW . Or spend money in sound generation as always the key
Old 24th May 2020
  #349
Gear Guru
 
Jeezo's Avatar
One thing for sure is that when PA drop expensive plugins like that , when it son sale , we all jump on it ... no ? Lol
Old 24th May 2020
  #350
Gear Addict
 
Durk Diggler's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constant_K View Post
I mean it's been that way since the sales started. I can't talk cause I only bought in when the sales started, LOL!
I bought my first PA plugins at their leap year sales and got a good deal. Here is the real deal though:

- A customer does not owe it to PA to buy their plugins.
- PA does not owe it to customers to give away or sell them cheap plugins.

If "the feeling" that bothers some is plugin entitlement (and envy since some people will indeed have plugins they will not buy into) then they are moarons.
Old 24th May 2020
  #351
Gear Maniac
 
Constant_K's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Durk Diggler View Post
I bought my first PA plugins at their leap year sales and got a good deal. Here is the real deal though:

- A customer does not owe it to PA to buy their plugins.
- PA does not owe it to customers to give away or sell them cheap plugins.

If "the feeling" that bothers some is plugin entitlement (and envy since some people will indeed have plugins they will not buy into) then they are moarons.
Speaking for myself the grubby feeling isn't from entitlement it's from their questionable marketing strategies and "community management" but I agree with both your points.

Another trend I notice is that when prices drop to sub $50 the plugins (and company) suddenly become "aliased trash", "lackluster emulations" or "generic sounding" even tho they were well received and reviewed at launch or when prices were high across the board. Grinds my gears.

If Softube or Slate or whoever went the $30 a plugin route it would happen to them.
Old 24th May 2020
  #352
Gear Addict
 
Durk Diggler's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constant_K View Post
Speaking for myself the grubby feeling isn't from entitlement it's from their questionable marketing strategies and "community management" but I agree with both your points.
Well, I might have different expectations than some people. I did not find their facebook group interesting before they made it positive only. Bootlickers have been mentioned, which is fair, but what has not been mentioned is the doom prophets which cannot be pleased even if plugins somehow sucked their [email protected] and did their laundry everyday.

I could assume what you mean, but it is probably easier to ask you; what you mean by questionable marketing strategies?
Old 24th May 2020
  #353
Lives for gear
 

I finally had some time to give this a go. I had a mix that needed to be tilted a bit towards the highs. I turned off my goto 2-buss EQ and loaded up the AMEK 200. Set the low and high shelf to tilt close to where I was. Adjusted the volume to gain match. A/B previous EQ and the AMEK. Took the other EQ off the mix buss.

I don't know how this compares to whatever HW of if another EQ is subjectively better. This has a 'sound'! The way it stretches the audio frequencies (i really don't know how else to describe the hi-mids being 'opened' up with this EQ!).

Given the way I was tilting the mix I needed to scoop some low mid out and it did it with ease and transparency.

I usually think different is better. But this is simply better than what I was using.
Old 24th May 2020
  #354
Gear Addict
 
rojhmusic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRooster View Post
Hold ON! As there is one last Compressor for you to test. KH-COMP1 coming up in about 2-3 weeks. Don't miss to test the "beast". Cheers.

*flying back to moderate price section*
Can i demo it now. I dont care if its buggy haha
Old 24th May 2020
  #355
Lives for gear
 

Well .... I went and did it ... bought the Curve Bender [after demo'ing out on a Track].

Been interested in it for quite some time ... the opportunity came up.
Old 24th May 2020
  #356
plx
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iliveinacake View Post
To be clear, I don’t think the Amek is anything special or worth anywhere near that asking price, but I wouldn’t go as far as to call it a scam.
Huh, i have to say, PA seems to at least be (as opposed to Waves) on the legal side of things.
Their price dumps, license transfer prices, price hike on perma-licenses tho...
Are aggressively persuasive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trackbout View Post
It is truly bizarre how emotional some people are about this company. I don't think it's most of GS though, just an extremely vocal minority.
When company starts acting entitled and terrible the users that keep it in check are the most valuable ones TO OTHER USERS (not the company)

I don't see anything wrong with that honestly
Old 24th May 2020
  #357
M2E
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I think plugin companies should put their price whatever they like.


The key to get past is this is pride. That's always the hard part for anyone.
When working on something so long, you will always think it's worth $5k and more.
People in the end will always tell you what your product/plugin is worth.

If you put it out for $500 and only 2 people buy in 3 months+ then you probably got it too high.

You drop it down to $400, same thing happens and no one buys it then you drop it down to $300.

If no one buys it for that or you get 2 to 3 people in 3 months, it's still too high.

You drop it down to $200, now all of a sudden you sell 10 in 3 months then you know you're in the ball park.

You do a sell for $99 and all of a sudden you sell 10k+ then you know, that's what people think your product is worth right now. Then you play with those numbers ala $149 etc and do sells for $99 or $49. If you sell 30k+ at $49 then $99 is your magic number.

It's a mind game to be honest but I think both plugin companies learn as well as buyers and we all meet in the middle.

Plugin worth right now is not $300+. The reason is, the resale is absolutely horrible. If the resale value were to go up for plugins, that is what would truly help.
Then people like myself don't feel like I'm losing money as I know later on if I want to sell this plugin because I just don't use it anymore that I can get the plugin's worth but now a days, it's sad. Resale is at $10 to $99 but really no more. That's just the honest truth.

Also with absolutely incredible plugins companies like Fuse Audio Labs at $29, Waves at $29 and others, that's setting the market value because if your plugins are not better or close to those guys, than why have it that high.
Hell, Sean from Valhalla has one of thee best reverbs VVV and delay for $50.
It's so hard to justify getting anything else in that area because of the value of those plugins. #JusSayin ...

So again, I think every plugin company should charge what they think it should be and as long as they don't let pride get in the way, they will be successful.

JusMyTake, Marc
Old 24th May 2020
  #358
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by trackbout View Post
It is truly bizarre how emotional some people are about this company. I don't think it's most of GS though, just an extremely vocal minority.
Usually when somebody becomes the target of ridicule it's not just the people ridiculing you that need to take a good hard look at why they are doing it.

For instance, Plugin Alliance or actually Brainworx more specifically are known for ludicrous amounts of hyperbole and complete nonsense. For instance, early on when Brainworx made their first plugins they virtually claimed that they invented Mid/Side processing and marketed it very hard.

Not only has M/S recording and decoding and any processing inbetween been known since almost 100 years back but it had already been implemented in various plugins way before Brainworx even entered the scene. Extensive use of mid/side processing in plugins fame probably falls to mr Aleksey Vaneev of Voxengo.. not Brainworx. Yet they tried to market it very aggressively as their invention.

Same with this whole TMT component tolerance crap. It's just a marketing ploy for the most part and at least in my opinion it's extremely annoying how over the top they make it.

My point is: Plugin Alliance are digging their own grave with the extremely aggressive hyperbole and sometimes 100% downright lies in the marketing.

If you use extraordinary claims of excellence and go for the marketing strategy they use, you'll always see quite a lot of push back. Just look at how Slate is treated here. Having said that, bold words and incredible amounts of hyperbole seems to be the way to go for the masses. A large portion of the general population will never question things. Instead they choose to simply trust and obey. The strategy works. Every strongman wannabe Dirktator in the world knows this.
Old 24th May 2020
  #359
Gear Addict
 
Durk Diggler's Avatar
 

Dear chumps and other victims of plugin sales, if you find the e-mails from PA to be agressive marketing, unsub their e-mails now.
Old 24th May 2020
  #360
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or the IGNORE ROOM is gonna get loaded up.
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