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Massenburg MDWEQ v6 is out
Old 1 week ago
  #361
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nomoreflakes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by blaugruen7 View Post
You did a double blind?

Between what?
Mdw and stock digi eq3. Q values and Freq points (minutely) different which has no bearing in actual use. A practical benefit is the iso function but, otherwise, used as a tool you will achieve exactly the same result as it NULLS!

I abx a lot. Been in the game long enough not to trust the psychological effects of shiny new gear and confirmation bias, especially with a high price tag and 'name' on it.

Totally understand people's right to delude themselves, but abx testing is eye, if not ear, opening

Peace
Old 1 week ago
  #362
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blaugruen7's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomoreflakes View Post
Mdw and stock digi eq3. Q values and Freq points (minutely) different which has no bearing in actual use. A practical benefit is the iso function but, otherwise, used as a tool you will achieve exactly the same result as it NULLS!

I abx a lot. Been in the game long enough not to trust the psychological effects of shiny new gear and confirmation bias, especially with a high price tag and 'name' on it.

Totally understand people's right to delude themselves, but abx testing is eye, if not ear, opening

Peace
Very cool.

I.xome Always Back to Farbfilter Q3.

Found the linear Phase Mode after a year.... Oh my
Old 1 week ago
  #363
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomoreflakes View Post
Mdw and stock digi eq3. Q values and Freq points (minutely) different which has no bearing in actual use. A practical benefit is the iso function but, otherwise, used as a tool you will achieve exactly the same result as it NULLS!

I abx a lot. Been in the game long enough not to trust the psychological effects of shiny new gear and confirmation bias, especially with a high price tag and 'name' on it.

Totally understand people's right to delude themselves, but abx testing is eye, if not ear, opening

Peace
Shiny near gear does indeed attract undeserved attention, but far more prevalent on GS are false claims. I'm open to the idea that the stock eq *might* null with MDW, but unless there's proof then this claim falls into that category of unsubstantiated claims. Unfortunately, anyone who thinks that all eqs are the same hasn't actually been in the game long enough to understand what makes an eq tick. A half hour of proper deep research puts that to bed with certainty.
Old 1 week ago
  #364
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nomoreflakes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
Shiny near gear does indeed attract undeserved attention, but far more prevalent on GS are false claims. I'm open to the idea that the stock eq *might* null with MDW, but unless there's proof then this claim falls into that category of unsubstantiated claims. Unfortunately, anyone who thinks that all eqs are the same hasn't actually been in the game long enough to understand what makes an eq tick. A half hour of proper deep research puts that to bed with certainty.

The beauty of this is that it's empirical.

Get in touch with MDW for a demo. As mentioned before, the Q values are not the same and the frequency points differ by very, very small amounts, but it will null with stock Digi EQ3 to -70db. In real-world use, this is negligible.

Are you really confident you could reliably pick out a difference in abx testing?

Old 1 week ago
  #365
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomoreflakes View Post
The beauty of this is that it's empirical.

Get in touch with MDW for a demo. As mentioned before, the Q values are not the same and the frequency points differ by very, very small amounts, but it will null with stock Digi EQ3 to -70db. In real-world use, this is negligible.

Are you really confident you could reliably pick out a difference in abx testing?

If you've gotten the stock eq to null, why not post the settings of both MDW and the stock eq? It's not up to any of us to prove your claim. I could very easily state that MDW is the best reverb I've ever used, and after doing so there would be a strong chance that some inquisitive mind would want to hear my example. Should they download the demo and figure out how established *MY* claim? Sorry but it doesn't work that way.

Regarding abx testing, that's not how I shop for and implement new products. But if you're saying that MDW is an absolute waste of money -- that it seems great to people because they simply don't know how to properly use stock eqs -- then I, and in fact all of us, would like some proof. Many great engineers, with zero financial interest in MDW, have offered compliments to this plugin. As I said, I could be convinced that they don't know what they're talking about, but since you're the one going against the grain here it's on you to prove. Otherwise, the accepted reality is that eqs, even digital eqs, vary to large degrees.
Old 1 week ago
  #366
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nomoreflakes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
If you've gotten the stock eq to null, why not post the settings of both MDW and the stock eq? It's not up to any of us to prove your claim. I could very easily state that MDW is the best reverb I've ever used, and after doing so there would be a strong chance that some inquisitive mind would want to hear my example. Should they download the demo and figure out how established *MY* claim? Sorry but it doesn't work that way.

Regarding abx testing, that's not how I shop for and implement new products. But if you're saying that MDW is an absolute waste of money -- that it seems great to people because they simply don't know how to properly use stock eqs -- then I, and in fact all of us, would like some proof. Many great engineers, with zero financial interest in MDW, have offered compliments to this plugin. As I said, I could be convinced that they don't know what they're talking about, but since you're the one going against the grain here it's on you to prove. Otherwise, the accepted reality is that eqs, even digital eqs, vary to large degrees.
But I have not asked anyone to prove my claim; I have no interest if you don't believe me. I am merely presenting a statement of empirical fact.

Yes, you may say that "MDW is the best reverb [SIC] that you have ever used". But could you really pick this MDW EQ out over Digi EQ3in a double-blind test? I would be very, very surprised.

ABX testing, in the correct context, is essential. But, again, if you don't want to and if you are happy to live in ignorance that is your prerogative.Good luck to you. I don't like wasting money.

In this context, where an expensive product with specious marketing claims that, hypothetically, offers no more than a free product, it makes good sense to abx test. I concede that the iso function is useful. But not worth the $ for me. I am taking the money I would have spent on this and buying another CAPI product - the LC25

Btw. The earth has always been, and remains, an oblate spheroid.
Old 1 week ago
  #367
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomoreflakes View Post
I am merely presenting a statement of empirical fact.
Typically, when a claim is made, some degree of proof is provided. You're 100% against doing so (I'm guessing it's because you can't), and because your claim goes against conventional wisdom it will be considered false until you can prove it to be true. This is how it works. The fact that you don't care if we believe you is a great benefit to you, because few here will believe the claim until we can see/hear it.

But enough of this. It's become obvious that it's no more than a feeble attempt to invalidate the price of MDW (and probably boutique tools in general) for the sake of one person's conscience. As they say, put up or shut up.
Old 1 week ago
  #368
Quote:
Originally Posted by blaugruen7 View Post
Very cool.

I.xome Always Back to Farbfilter Q3.

Found the linear Phase Mode after a year.... Oh my
I have to admit... we were a little late to that party, too. It added so much latency during our first tests that we moved on almost immediately and rarely returned. But after a closer listen it's tough to use anything else. There are, of course, instances when you don't want LP mode, and we still audition modes for that reason. LP typically wins though.
Old 1 week ago
  #369
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nomoreflakes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
This is how it works
Sigh. No. It, absolutely, is not.

I have no burden to prove anything. I am reporting a finding and inviting others to try out what I have found (FREE DEMO!) before committing to spending a not inconsiderable amount of money.

As they say, shut up. Stop trolling me or seek medication.
Old 1 week ago
  #370
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Ribbonmicguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomoreflakes View Post
The beauty of this is that it's empirical.

Get in touch with MDW for a demo. As mentioned before, the Q values are not the same and the frequency points differ by very, very small amounts, but it will null with stock Digi EQ3 to -70db. In real-world use, this is negligible.

Are you really confident you could reliably pick out a difference in abx testing?

How would this be nulling if the values are not the same?

You are just truing to null it for the sale of nulling it even if the parameters are different.
Old 1 week ago
  #371
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nomoreflakes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribbonmicguy View Post
How would this be nulling if the values are not the same?

You are just truing to null it for the sale of nulling it even if the parameters are different.
My test was to see if there is any qualitative difference between a product that, hypothetically, will achieve the same result. The most efficient way to do this is to null. A -70db difference is negligible in real world use. Happy to provide an ABX files if you want to stake your reputation.

Must say I'm amazed at such dogged resistance to science by fellow 'engineers'.

Once again, all I'm doing is stating what I have found. You are entitled to ignore or try for yourself. It is easy and free!
Old 1 week ago
  #372
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Ribbonmicguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomoreflakes View Post
My test was to see if there is any qualitative difference between a product that, hypothetically, will achieve the same result. The most efficient way to do this is to null. A -70db difference is negligible in real world use. Happy to provide an ABX files if you want to stake your reputation.

Must say I'm amazed at such dogged resistance to science by fellow 'engineers'.

Once again, all I'm doing is stating what I have found. You are entitled to ignore or try for yourself. It is easy and free!
Good for you for nullling it. I don't know why you keep saying we are resisting to science.

My statement is: How could you abx/nulling it with different values?

You're doing it just for trying to achieve the same result?

I don't use MDW and I don't use digieq3.

I was happy doing the test earlier in this thread and found that the ProQ3 though berated agains the current offering was what people like.
Old 1 week ago
  #373
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nomoreflakes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribbonmicguy View Post
My statement is: How could you abx/nulling it with different values?

You're doing it just for trying to achieve the same result?

So I will spell it out.

Take two aux sends apply the same source to both. Put a Digi eq3 plug on one andflip the phase. Put an MDW on the other. Pick a setting on the MDW apply the same to the Digi3 and minutely adjust q value by .01+ and Freq point by .01+ hz Sum the result. Somewhere down in the noise floor is the difference=negligible.

Now take a bounce of both sides (not phase reversed now) . If you like, put exactly the same q and Freq settings. Put in abx testing software. Be honest with yourself, can you hear a difference. I bet you can't. Now see if you can pick each one out reliably. I bet you can't. Voila, science.

Of course, nobody uses a tool like this. In the real world they an adjustable tool used to achieve a desired result. This test shows that you can achieve the same result. Quantitatively they are different but to such a degree that it is insignificant. Qualitatively they are not.
Old 1 week ago
  #374
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Ribbonmicguy's Avatar
It is awesome and congratulations for you for not buying the MDW and sticking to DigiEQ3.

I am sure you can achieve so much with stock plugins.

Individual purchasing decision though is very subjective. There are reasons why I keep going to the same plugins in my workflow. I still use EQ1 from time to time. Just to flip/check phase on drums multitrack. Eq'ing I prefer using ProQ3 for workflow and speed.

YMMV.
Old 1 week ago
  #375
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nomoreflakes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribbonmicguy View Post
It is awesome and congratulations for you for not buying the MDW and sticking to DigiEQ3.

I am sure you can achieve so much with stock plugins.

Individual purchasing decision though is very subjective. There are reasons why I keep going to the same plugins in my workflow. I still use EQ1 from time to time. Just to flip/check phase on drums multitrack. Eq'ing I prefer using ProQ3 for workflow and speed.

YMMV.
Can I make it clear that I did not ever say that all eq plugs sound the same.

Use whatever you like. Who cares? I also like the functionality of Q3. Not sure of your point.
Old 1 week ago
  #376
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Eigenwert's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomoreflakes View Post
Can I make it clear that I did not ever say that all eq plugs sound the same.

Use whatever you like. Who cares? I also like the functionality of Q3. Not sure of your point.
It‘s hard to talk to someone who thinks he knows it all while he is not even aware of some simple facts.

If you don‘t tell us what kind of setting you are talking about on which kind of signal, you are just using a lot of words and tell us absolutely nothing.

If the EQ setting is mild or if there‘s not much energy in the affected frequency range, then it‘s possible to have about any EQ „null“ with any other EQ inverted in phase to -70 dB.

If it nulls with white noise in extreme settings, your point might be a bit more legit, even though in a real world scenario it‘s often the transients that sound different and there‘s usually little energy in the transients, making this kind of test not really super useful.
Old 1 week ago
  #377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eigenwert View Post
If it nulls with white noise in extreme settings, your point might be a bit more legit, even though in a real world scenario it‘s often the transients that sound different and there‘s usually little energy in the transients, making this kind of test not really super useful.
Ok, share us your test than which proves that 99% of digital EQs dont null.
Old 1 week ago
  #378
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Eigenwert's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxMulderFBI View Post
Ok, share us your test than which proves that 99% of digital EQs dont null.
I didn’t say anything like that. I said that any digital EQ will null to those -70 dB if settings are mild enough or if little energy is present in the affected frequency range, pointing out that it‘s absolutely useless to claim that two EQs null to -70 dB if not sharing as well what kind of signal and what kind of setting we are talking about.
Old 1 week ago
  #379
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Eigenwert's Avatar
Also, what does it even mean, „99% of all EQ will/ will not null“?

Technically, if claimed in such a generic way, „99% of filters will null“ would mean that for every impulse response that does exist in any filter, there is at least one equal impulse response existing in all the other filters.

So technically it is easy to prove that most filters do not really null, whatever that really means to a real world application.
Old 1 week ago
  #380
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nomoreflakes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eigenwert View Post
It‘s hard to talk to someone who thinks he knows it all while he is not even aware of some simple facts.
well done mate, an almost perfect example of anonymous gearslutz antagonism

I have no idea who you are; you have no idea who I am. I have no interest in engaging with anyone who introduces themselves with this sort of arrogance.

Old 1 week ago
  #381
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Eigenwert's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomoreflakes View Post
well done mate, an almost perfect example of anonymous gearslutz antagonism

I have no idea who you are; you have no idea who I am. I have no interest in engaging with anyone who introduces themselves with this sort of arrogance.

If you say that this EQ nulls out in general with another EQ, the technical meaning of this claim is that for each impulse resonse from one EQ there must be a setting in the other EQ with the same impulse response.

No need to get personal, the facts speak for themselves.
Old 1 week ago
  #382
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nomoreflakes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eigenwert View Post
the facts speak for themselves.
yes, they do. now who the hell would have thought that?

I have no further interest in this tedious circular argument. I have adequately explained my rationale in earlier posts and I can see that you are provoking a repetition of what has already been clearly stated. You don't have to go back far to read them.

I will repeat, I do not give a flying **** if anyone believes me / can be arsed to investigate themselves / enjoys confirmation bias / likes spanking themselves dressed in a leather teddy. The eq will still null (on any source for ****s sake, it doesn't care if it is pink noise, Mahler, Mingus or your mum) to such an extent that it is *impossible* to reliably tell them apart in double-blind abx testing and, therefore, when used as a practical tool in real life, this expensive, name-brand EQ is a not a wise use of $300.
Old 1 week ago
  #383
Gear Addict
 
rectape's Avatar
Every threads on GS getting hijacked by the infamous Null Squad and/or software VS hardware.
Keeping track of the original subject is nearly impossible and I understand why a lot of people leave this forum.
Old 1 week ago
  #384
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nomoreflakes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rectape View Post
Every threads on GS getting hijacked by the infamous Null Squad and/or software VS hardware.
Keeping track of the original subject is nearly impossible and I understand why a lot of people leave this forum.
Or the infamous straw epithets and/or sour grapes squad.

The original subject is under discussion.
Old 1 week ago
  #385
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Ribbonmicguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomoreflakes View Post
Can I make it clear that I did not ever say that all eq plugs sound the same.

Use whatever you like. Who cares? I also like the functionality of Q3. Not sure of your point.
You contradict yourself.

I bet you can't tell the difference when blind testing it.
Old 1 week ago
  #386
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nomoreflakes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribbonmicguy View Post
You contradict yourself.

I bet you can't tell the difference when blind testing it.
The fact that I admittedly cannot tell the difference between this and [x] eq in a blind test has no bearing on the fact that I like the functionality and GUI of this eq?

You make no sense.

ironic sign
Old 1 week ago
  #387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eigenwert View Post
If you say that this EQ nulls out in general with another EQ, the technical meaning of this claim is that for each impulse resonse from one EQ there must be a setting in the other EQ with the same impulse response.

No need to get personal, the facts speak for themselves.
Of course you're correct, but that other guy has become very emotional about the topic and resorted to insults as a defense mechanism to get people off his back, and in those instances there's simply no more talking sense. Best to ignore his posts (which he refuses to prove because he cannot) and get back to the topic. Click his name and select Ignore.
Old 1 week ago
  #388
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Eigenwert's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomoreflakes View Post
I do not give a flying **** if anyone believes me
It's actually not about the question if someone believes you. The number one question is what you even are talking about. Because - for obvious reasons - a near flat curve will always null anyway while the side effects of more extreme settings totally depend on what you are doing (extreme low cut vs. extreme high boost for example).

No one can believe you - no matter what - as long as you don't even mention what you actually are talking about.
Old 1 week ago
  #389
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nomoreflakes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
Of course you're correct, but that other guy has become very emotional about the topic and resorted to insults as a defense mechanism to get people off his back, and in those instances there's simply no more talking sense. Best to ignore his posts (which he refuses to prove because he cannot) and get back to the topic. Click his name and select Ignore.
It is incredible that you will repeatedly take the time effort to obliquely dig at me yet you have no time to investigate for yourself a very quick, simple procedure (1 minute) under your own terms and your own control. What does that tell me? That you probably fear that you will find out that I am not lying. And why the **** would I? What exactly is my agenda!?

If you think about it, how can any "proof" that I present be in any way controlled or verifiable? If I post random files on the internet, how the hell would you or anybody know whether I had doctored them. There could never be any credibility.

At least use a little common sense.

How many f**king times do I have to say that I have no issue with anybody choosing to use this product for whatever reason they like, in any way they like. Get over it. Go out, enjoy the spring air! Put that teddy on.

Massenburg MDWEQ v6 is out
Old 1 week ago
  #390
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Eigenwert's Avatar
I'm on your ignore list as you said in the other thread, right?

1-2 mike check... Massenburg EQ is good... My ears hear a difference between an extreme high boost on Massenburg EQ vs stock Logic EQ.

*hoping that it worked*
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