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APS Klasik 2020
Old 22nd June 2020
  #241
Gear Nut
 

Damn!

Those speakers are so transparent.

It feels like a have all acces to every bit of element inside the music.

The speakers "disappear" and you just listen to what IT IS.
Old 27th June 2020
  #242
sz1
Here for the gear
 

Looks like the frequency response range on the new version doesn't go as low as the original (35 Hz -> 39 Hz now). Curious if anyone who's owned both versions noticed a lack of low-end when compared to the original Klasiks?
Old 28th June 2020
  #243
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cheu78's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sz1 View Post
Looks like the frequency response range on the new version doesn't go as low as the original (35 Hz -> 39 Hz now). Curious if anyone who's owned both versions noticed a lack of low-end when compared to the original Klasiks?
I don’t own either..
but do you really think you will be able to hear a 4Hz difference in a slope of a woofer in you medium treated room?

I suspect there are other differencies in the design who makes these loudspeakers perform differently, like the cab size, xover points, amps design, internal cab bracing, ports design/excecution, drivers used, etc..

These might lead to a different behaviour which might translate to a different slope or lower point..

BUT the point is that at that frequency the room will play a much major role than the loudspeaker itself.



Cheu
Old 28th June 2020
  #244
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by sz1 View Post
Looks like the frequency response range on the new version doesn't go as low as the original (35 Hz -> 39 Hz now). Curious if anyone who's owned both versions noticed a lack of low-end when compared to the original Klasiks?
I noticed that the bass response in Klasik2020 was faster and better (more transparent).
There was no difference in depth.
Old 28th June 2020
  #245
Quote:
Originally Posted by sz1 View Post
Looks like the frequency response range on the new version doesn't go as low as the original (35 Hz -> 39 Hz now). Curious if anyone who's owned both versions noticed a lack of low-end when compared to the original Klasiks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knstntn View Post
I noticed that the bass response was faster and better (more transparent).
There was no difference in depth.
If the low end presents itself as tighter, then this sometimes can be perceived as less low end. A sloppy low end can appear bigger.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #246
Here for the gear
 

I am curious about how does the Klasik2020 compare to Focal Shape 65?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #247
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The Listener's Avatar
I just came across APS KLASIK 2020 that I never heard of before. I currently use Neumann KH120A with Yamaha SW10 studio sub and I also have Yamaha HS-8 which are to my taste nowhere near the Neumanns - artificial, not detailed, but big, fuzzy - good for home hi-fi listening and I also use them for some electro-acoustic live performances/sound installations...

I loved the KH-120, but they can sometimes sound a bit "closed" to me... and I also wish to ditch the subwoofer...

Also when I use them in some installations, they clip when there is a lot of bass and played loud. A really nasty clipping sound... do the new KLASIK 2020 go louder - have more headroom than the small KH-120A?

Impulsively I thought to "upgrade" to KLASIK 2020, but I can't really test them here... maybe I could buy them and then re-sell if they don't live up to my expectations, but that could be too much hassle.

I read quite a lot of opinions here - some great - but some also weird - like preffering HS8 over KLASIK2020 - because I don't feel the HS8 are anywhere near the sound quality of KH120A - which sounds natural and detailed to me - while HS8 not exactly... and I would expect KLASIK 2020 to be in the same, only better league than KH120A - or there is no sense in "upgrading".
Old 4 weeks ago
  #248
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Listener View Post
I just came across APS KLASIK 2020 that I never heard of before. I currently use Neumann KH120A with Yamaha SW10 studio sub and I also have Yamaha HS-8 which are to my taste nowhere near the Neumanns - artificial, not detailed, but big, fuzzy - good for home hi-fi listening and I also use them for some electro-acoustic live performances/sound installations...

I loved the KH-120, but they can sometimes sound a bit "closed" to me... and I also wish to ditch the subwoofer...

Also when I use them in some installations, they clip when there is a lot of bass and played loud. A really nasty clipping sound... do the new KLASIK 2020 go louder - have more headroom than the small KH-120A?

Impulsively I thought to "upgrade" to KLASIK 2020, but I can't really test them here... maybe I could buy them and then re-sell if they don't live up to my expectations, but that could be too much hassle.

I read quite a lot of opinions here - some great - but some also weird - like preffering HS8 over KLASIK2020 - because I don't feel the HS8 are anywhere near the sound quality of KH120A - which sounds natural and detailed to me - while HS8 not exactly... and I would expect KLASIK 2020 to be in the same, only better league than KH120A - or there is no sense in "upgrading".
The Klasik (old and new) both go lower than KH120's. I think they are probably a good replacement for KH120s with a sub if you don't like the sub (or if the room can't handle a sub). Another route would be the KH750 DSP sub from Neumann, where you can tune the KH120+Sub to your room (essentially adds DSP to the 120). I recently got the KH80 DSP and what can I say... the room correction just works.
I also listened to the old Klasik for the first time this weekend and they are damn fine mix tools. They sounded a bit darker than my KH80 but they revealed every mix flaw in an instant.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #249
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The Listener's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaleidoscope View Post
The Klasik (old and new) both go lower than KH120's. I think they are probably a good replacement for KH120s with a sub if you don't like the sub (or if the room can't handle a sub). Another route would be the KH750 DSP sub from Neumann, where you can tune the KH120+Sub to your room (essentially adds DSP to the 120). I recently got the KH80 DSP and what can I say... the room correction just works.
I also listened to the old Klasik for the first time this weekend and they are damn fine mix tools. They sounded a bit darker than my KH80 but they revealed every mix flaw in an instant.
Thanks, since I can't hear them, I decided to stay with KH120 and sub. I like them enough, can mix on them, from all what I read now it seems not as an upgrade, just a different option.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #250
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Listener View Post
I read quite a lot of opinions here - some great - but some also weird - like preffering HS8 over KLASIK2020 - because I don't feel the HS8 are anywhere near the sound quality of KH120A - which sounds natural and detailed to me - while HS8 not exactly... and I would expect KLASIK 2020 to be in the same, only better league than KH120A - or there is no sense in "upgrading".
I don't know where you got that info from, but nearly everyone who listened to Klasiks and HS8 (especially in this thread) says that there is just no comparison between them. I ditched the HS8 immediately after listening to the Klasiks.

But I'd like to elaborate more on the low end of the old and new model:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knstntn View Post
I noticed that the bass response in Klasik2020 was faster and better (more transparent).
There was no difference in depth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blayz2002 View Post
If the low end presents itself as tighter, then this sometimes can be perceived as less low end. A sloppy low end can appear bigger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheu78 View Post
I don’t own either..
but do you really think you will be able to hear a 4Hz difference in a slope of a woofer in you medium treated room?
Cheu
4 Hz does not seem to be a lot, but its still a whole step missing. If you are working without a sub these frequencies could be critical:

C#1/Db1 34.65 Hz
D1 36.71 Hz
D#1/Eb1 38.89 Hz

Does anybody know if there exists a FR graph for the new Klasiks? On the homepage there is only the manual of the old speaker, where you could also see the roll off frequency.
The only info we've got from the new ones is the range +-2 dB 39 Hz - 35 kHz

Sometimes there is a little bit of rumbling around 30-40Hz in some mixes, I am afraid the 2020s are less capable of playing that back as accurately as the old Klasiks.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #251
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJ99 View Post
Does anybody know if there exists a FR graph for the new Klasiks? On the homepage there is only the manual of the old speaker, where you could also see the roll off frequency.
The only info we've got from the new ones is the range +-2 dB 39 Hz - 35 kHz

Sometimes there is a little bit of rumbling around 30-40Hz in some mixes, I am afraid the 2020s are less capable of playing that back as accurately as the old Klasiks.
I would also be interested graphs.
Are there any reviews with measurements of these bad boys?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #252
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaleidoscope View Post
I would also be interested graphs.
Are there any reviews with measurements of these bad boys?
I actually found something on their facebook page. It was originally a polish review, but they translated it to english:

https://storage.googleapis.com/aps-w...WtucxFLltsui_A

Among other things, this could be interesting:

"The electronics of the new model is a completely new design. The designers managed to design an
analogue crossover that does not affect the signal's phase-sensitivity. In the anechoic chamber in the
utility band the phase response is within the tolerance of several degrees, it is practically linear. In the
measurement in my studio in the real life conditions of a home studio (desk reflections), the phase
response in the full band is within +/-20° tolerance. The division of the band between the woofer and
tweeter is set at 3.2 kHz [...]
From 37 Hz to 25 kHz, the bandwidth is in the +/-2 dB range. With a drop of -6 dB, the monitors at the
bottom reach 33 Hz.
"


But its just one review without any graph, not sure if you can trust it 100%.

This graph is taken from the old Klasiks manual:



if there really is a drop of -6db on the Klasik 2020s @ 33Hz they seem to perform similar to the old ones in terms of low end range if you can trust the graph. But why does APS then change the FR range from 35-35khz to 39-35khz on the specs?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #253
Lives for gear
 
The Listener's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJ99 View Post
I don't know where you got that info from, but nearly everyone who listened to Klasiks and HS8 (especially in this thread) says that there is just no comparison between them. I ditched the HS8 immediately after listening to the Klasiks.

I have KH120A and like them, but I wish for something that can occasionally play louder without clipping and also a bit more full range and "interesting" - sometimes I feel they sound "filtered" - like lacking some high end and low end - even with the Yamaha SW10 sub, but I can mix on them quite well... better than on anything before... but I heard some more fun monitors - I liked the old Genelec S30 - more depth, more bass, more 3D fun... like seeing some hidden details, while I only get a feeling for the balance on KH120A, while I am more in the dark for the details...

Anyway - I don't want to do the whole selling and buying thing if there would be no particular benefit in getting the new Klasiks 2020...

I was scared away by those posts (and a big ?? for the HS8 comment - because I have that speaker and it is nowhere near as good as KH120A)

Quote:
Originally Posted by To Mega Therion View Post
I love the detail on the 310 but it’s overdamped in the midrange and the tweeter is fatiguing and metallic. The pair matching is Sennheiser's quality control and driver binning at work. They also calibrate the crossovers for each speaker.

I haven’t heard a monitor capable of being mixed on that did not have quirks except for ATC SCM50ASL but those are 15000 dollars and still might need a subwoofer in your room. Even the 20 is boxy and very expensive.

I did not like the tweeter and the power-handling on the Klasiks either but they much more detailed and open than the 120. Hopefully the new one can play louder. I actually prefer the HS8 over any Neumann speakers and the Klasik and went with the KRK V6S4 at home because it’s better revealing of compression and the midrange is less damped. No manufacture supplied frequency response charts, anechoic chamber measurements, or Amir haphazardly measuring in his garage beats real world use.
and this post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by alex_danilov View Post
For people who trying upgrade from HS8 .Here is my story with Klassiks. Last summer I decided upgrade from my Yamaha HS8 to something more solid and detailed. After long researching I bought APS Klassiks from Musicstore without listening. Unfortunately this monitors turned out to be not what I expected for me. I trying to like it and work on them about a week, but always returning to Yamahas. I missed the weight and bigness of sound that given me HS8 on them. Detailed? Yes , but not my cup of coffee. So I sold them. On Black Friday I give my self try number 2 and bought Eve SC307s and these monitors make me happy! They give me what I wanted from my upgrade of HS8, similar weight of sound, but much more detailed and informative . With Eve sc307 and Sonarworks reference my mixes really got new level, clients and I happy.
Klassiks sounds good though, but it’s all matter of taste.
It would be useful to hear any other user of KH120A that compared them to Klasik2020...

I read also a lot of good reviews... I guess it is a matter of taste... it would be so good to hear even more...
Old 3 weeks ago
  #254
Gear Head
In both message, they're talking about the original Klasik, not a 2020. But the most interesting thing is that even original Klasik cannot be compared to the HS8. It's a completely different league.
If you have a chance, just take them and test them.

Remember that we all have our own rooms, that affect the sound very much and experience listening to really good sound.
Example: A lot of people think that ATC has a little bass component. But not many people know that it's the absence of distortion.

If you're interested in my opinion, I didn't compare them side by side. But I remember them from memory. And the Klasik2020 will go far ahead. Imho.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #255
Lives for gear
 
The Listener's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knstntn View Post
In both message, they're talking about the original Klasik, not a 2020. But the most interesting thing is that even original Klasik cannot be compared to the HS8. It's a completely different league.
If you have a chance, just take them and test them.

Remember that we all have our own rooms, that affect the sound very much and experience listening to really good sound.
Example: A lot of people think that ATC has a little bass component. But not many people know that it's the absence of distortion.

If you're interested in my opinion, I didn't compare them side by side. But I remember them from memory. And the Klasik2020 will go far ahead. Imho.
Didn't compare HS8 and Klasik2020 or KH120A and KLASIK2020?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #256
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Listener View Post
Didn't compare HS8 and Klasik2020 or KH120A and KLASIK2020?
As I said, the HS8 should be compared with other contenders. Klasik2020 a different league, I really don't understand how they compare.

I'm talking about 120 and 2020.
It's not clear why people refuse to be tested. In most countries you can do it for free, or am I wrong?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #257
Lives for gear
 
The Listener's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knstntn View Post
As I said, the HS8 should be compared with other contenders. Klasik2020 a different league, I really don't understand how they compare.

I'm talking about 120 and 2020.
It's not clear why people refuse to be tested. In most countries you can do it for free, or am I wrong?
I'll use 30 days money back guarantee with one online shop and order them. I am too intrigued. KH120A are fine, but I suspect I could do a bit better...
Old 3 weeks ago
  #258
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Listener View Post
I'll use 30 days money back guarantee with one online shop and order them. I am too intrigued. KH120A are fine, but I suspect I could do a bit better...
This is the best thing you could do! I support you. Only your ears will answer your question about the Klasik2020.
If you let me, it was interesting to hear your opinion and your experience with APS.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #259
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Listener View Post
I read quite a lot of opinions here - some great - but some also weird - like preffering HS8 over KLASIK2020 - because I don't feel the HS8 are anywhere near the sound quality of KH120A - which sounds natural and detailed to me - while HS8 not exactly... and I would expect KLASIK 2020 to be in the same, only better league than KH120A - or there is no sense in "upgrading".
I have Klasik 2020 here in my room, and my roommate has Yamaha HS80M in the next room. I can safely say that the Klasik 2020 are much much better. It's not even close, there's no contest. It's immediately obvious that the Klasiks are a few tiers above the HS80M in quality. Even a casual listener with no audio experience would immediately notice the obvious difference
Old 3 weeks ago
  #260
Gear Head
 

I have been working on sound proofing and could post some REW graphs of my Klassik 2020s if it helps? They would be very much effected by my room but would show range
Old 3 weeks ago
  #261
“The APS Klasik 2020s are truly remarkable, even when you don’t consider the extremely high value they represent. I owned the original Klasiks for a couple of years and most every engineer and all my students who have worked at my studio (Sound Temple Studios in Asheville) have absolutely loved them. I compared the original Klasiks to monitors costing four times the price and still preferred the original Klasiks. Well, as good as the original Klasiks are, the new 2020s take things to another level! The mids are clearer and flatter, the lows are extended, tighter and flatter and the sense of depth is increased. The minor criticisms that some people had with the original Klasiks (I didn’t have any) have been addressed. They also seem to pair up better with a sub than the original Klasiks if you like using one. They translate remarkably well and are never fatiguing after a long day of mixing. They are very clear but not bright at all. I highly recommend them no matter what your budget is.”
Old 3 weeks ago
  #262
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Listener View Post
I'll use 30 days money back guarantee with one online shop and order them. I am too intrigued. KH120A are fine, but I suspect I could do a bit better...
Since I've set up the K2020 in the studio my recording sessions sounds very close to my older mixes

Just by listening them, they "guide" you in a way...you just make better decisions, and less "processing". Also I just don't want to buy more plugins to have a "better" sound..

Also I don't use my sub, once you will be used to listen to the k2020 you will know when there is too much sub (the medium freq sounds less "airy".. less headroom)

I've set them up low freq: flat, high freq:-1,5

I took the risk to buy them without listening them (which I don't recommend)
But I'm VERY pleased with my work, and I have many good feedback from my clients
Old 3 weeks ago
  #263
sz1
Here for the gear
 

Even in a poorly treated room, they seem to handle bass frequencies very well. At least compared to the Dynaudio BM5 Mk3s, which I had for a week then returned.
I've also had Focal Alpha 65s and demoed the 80s, both of which have a similar sound signature to the Klasiks (to me). Overall though, I feel that these are the best value amongst all of the studio monitors that I've researched and listened to.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #264
Here for the gear
 

Unfortunately there is no APS dealer in my country. Does anyone have any info on who to contact from APS to ask a few questions and probably order?
I've heard they provide money back guarantee in case the costumer is not satisffied, is that correct?

Also, has anyone compared them to the Kali IN-8?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #265
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith99 View Post
I have been working on sound proofing and could post some REW graphs of my Klassik 2020s if it helps? They would be very much effected by my room but would show range
Yes please! that would help a lot!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #266
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by musictracer View Post
Unfortunately there is no APS dealer in my country. Does anyone have any info on who to contact from APS to ask a few questions and probably order?
I've heard they provide money back guarantee in case the costumer is not satisffied, is that correct?

Also, has anyone compared them to the Kali IN-8?
https://www.aps-company.com/contact/

I've sent them some questions and they were very helpful
Old 2 weeks ago
  #267
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by Young.baws View Post
https://www.aps-company.com/contact/

I've sent them some questions and they were very helpful
I've asked some detailed technical questions through the contact formular on their homepage not long ago, but unfortunately they did not answer at all.. I tried then to write on the facebook page, there I immediately got an answer, (they also told me they were busy), but it was not really helpful and technical, more like their personal experience when mixing with them. So I hope you're more lucky then me
Old 2 weeks ago
  #268
Here for the gear
 
1990mz's Avatar
A heads-up to anyone based in the UK who are eager to give these a listen before pulling the trigger - we've (Funky Junk) just received our first shipment of KLASIK2020's and now have these available to demo on an appointment basis in our north London showroom.

https://www.proaudioeurope.com/info/...emo-facilities

We're all very big fans of the KLASIK's here (I'm looking to get a pair myself), so extremely excited to hear these alongside the originals...
Old 2 weeks ago
  #269
Lives for gear
 
The Listener's Avatar
Just got them and did extensive testing against KH120A.

Without the sub there is no competition, but for a really small room KH120A could be better, they don't "play" the room that much...

With the Yamaha SW10 sub I had equal bass and I even enjoy just a pinch of sub along with Klasik2020, just for the very low end.

I am really used to KH120A that sound really smooth and have very nice midrange, so my first out of the box impression of Klasik2020 was that they were more "raw"... less smooth.

I played them more, checked different switch settings and settled with -1.5db cut on high end and position 1 for bass. After some more "breaking in" they started sounding bigger, with more detail, more separated low end, more high end detail than KH120A... also there is bigger difference between really good mixes and not so good... Pat Metheny was sublime on Klasik2020...

Will have to do some mixing on them to really judge, but at the moment I am pretty happy.

Wouldn't say they are "better" than KH120A, but different. Bigger, deeper, also louder, but midrange on KH120A is also rather sweet and highs very smooth, but maybe a bit closed and not so revealing... Build quality is a bit more robust on KH120A - especially the XLR connectors...

Yamaha HS8 are no comparison, just listening on them at the moment - to the Tidal master versions of the same songs as I did on Klasik2020 and KH120 and it's a different league...

You really need to listen to speakers yourself, it is very subjective.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #270
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Young.baws View Post
https://www.aps-company.com/contact/

I've sent them some questions and they were very helpful
Thanks, what price did you get yours including shipping?
(By the way, what do you mean by "Since I've set up the K2020 in the studio my recording sessions sounds very close to my older mixes " ? )

I would also be glad if you people using the klasik 2020's could share what genre you are into and whether you are mostly producing or mixing with them. So far I have tend to conclude that it is mostly preferred by EDM producers, though generally I believe that a good speaker is good no matter the genre (There are EDM producers that rely a lot on ns10's as main monitors)

Also a little off topic , but does anyone use a monitor controller and if so what is your choice? Currently using a control2usb but I feel I am losing some dynamics and clarity from my id14 to my hs5's.
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