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APS Klasik 2020
Old 24th April 2020 | Show parent
  #31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amroth View Post
I hope somebody who has proper experience with Yamaha HS8 can confirm what I am guestimating from my research- that the Klasiks will have a more natural sound with more information in the midrange than the HS8 which might sound more "scooped" in comparison.

Also APS is a more boutique company which take their time in designing their monitor systems. Yamaha and Presonus are awesome companies but they are more mass produced style and perhaps have to cut more corners with materials and design...
Interestingly a friend here in my city uses the HS8 and I´ve room corrected them for him too + have listened to a few of his mixes he did on them at his studio. They are NOT bad, but compared to the APS Klasik, they feel a bit less detailed in the stereo-image / transients. That´s what I heard when calibrating them. I would prefer the Klasik, although the HS8 are a bit cheaper.
Old 26th April 2020
  #32
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Matt Allison's Avatar
 

Where can these be bought in the U.S. and what is the price? Thx
Old 26th April 2020 | Show parent
  #33
Quote:
Originally Posted by pippoceretti View Post
I got my 2020s 3/4 weeks ago.
I am no expert
I had some old hs80m and the improvement is significant. I almost cried while listening to my reference tracks.

Also had some focal 6be in the studio a while back.
Klasik 2020s are WAY better. Proper 3d sound.
Imaging is superb too.
Very impressed
I've been researching what monitors to buy for the past week and was starting to lean towards Klasik 2020's and then your post sealed the deal. I've been using Yamaha HS80M myself (and JBL LSR305) and i'm hungry for that new pair of monitors that makes me hear mixes in a whole new way. The way you described your experience, that's what i want. Also, i've read numerous great things about APS and i really much prefer the idea of going with a smaller Boutique company rather than a mass produced prosumer product. I'm sold.

Anyway, i'm just wondering if you could expand on your feelings a little more. What was it that made you emotional? Can you expand on your experience with the 3D sound, is it sort of holographic? How's the front-back depth? What's your room dimensions/treatment like? After 2 weeks, is your experience still positive? Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Allison View Post
Where can these be bought in the U.S. and what is the price? Thx
https://www.aps-company.com/distributors/
Old 26th April 2020
  #34
Any floorstand suggestions for the Klasik 2020's?
Something adjustable
Old 26th April 2020 | Show parent
  #35
Gear Head
 

On that video they look a lot deaper than I was expecting so my own stands may no longer do the job
Old 26th April 2020 | Show parent
  #36
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Amroth's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barncore View Post
Anyway, i'm just wondering if you could expand on your feelings a little more. What was it that made you emotional? Can you expand on your experience with the 3D sound, is it sort of holographic? How's the front-back depth? What's your room dimensions/treatment like? After 2 weeks, is your experience still positive? Thanks!


https://www.aps-company.com/distributors/
He's already told you everything you need to know. Just pull the trigger man

I was briefly lusting for the Genelec 8341 or 8351 because I heard that they are basically the best you can get for nearfields/ midfields along with the Amphions one18/ two18. But with both of those models I simply can't afford to dump that much cash (more like credit) since audio is more a hobby these days than a regular income.

And even if I could afford them, I honestly think these Klasik 2020's are enough to both get great translation and have enough punch to enjoy listening to music as well. They are not fatiguing at all IMO.

So yeah my plan is to enjoy the Klasik 2020's for a few years and then see if I really want an upgrade later on
Old 27th April 2020 | Show parent
  #37
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Allison View Post
Where can these be bought in the U.S. and what is the price? Thx
You can order them directly from APS too if you email them. Mine should be getting to me in this week. Will post some early impressions if I can.
Old 27th April 2020 | Show parent
  #38
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mamm7215's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinx7 View Post
You can order them directly from APS too if you email them. Mine should be getting to me in this week. Will post some early impressions if I can.
I ordered from Ray at APS. They came from Poland to my door in Vancouver, Canada in just under 4 days.
Old 27th April 2020
  #39
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So instead of bass cut function like most others, Klasik has a e bass booster build in? But that's not done digitally like Footprint 01 but rather analog?
Old 27th April 2020 | Show parent
  #40
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrAudioBot View Post
Guys, this might be a bit OT, but I have been seeing APS Klasik recommended often here on GS. I never heard them or even considered them when thinking of upgrading monitors until recently. As many people, my interest was always focused on the typical brands, sooooo.....for users that have experience with APS Klasik (old or 2020): What makes them stand out? Right now I use Yamaha HS8 and Presonus Eris (as second speakers) and would like to hear some user experiences about frequency response, transients, ear fatigue, translation etc.

Anybody can comment?
Had the Yamaha HS5, then the HS8 and now the old Klasiks. All I can say is that the Yamahas feel like toys in comparison (it's maybe okay because the HS8 are also half the price of the Klasiks).

When thinking about the Yamahas now, ear fatigue, harshness, 2D, boring, mud comes to mind.

When thinking about the Klasiks: neutral, depth, honest. One of the main reasons I got them was their good reviews everywhere and their bass extension to avoid buying a sub (down to 35hz). I can really judge the low end well, which I couldn't on my older sets of monitors.
Also they are kind of inspiring to me. Their sound keeps me being creative somehow.
Old 27th April 2020
  #41
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DrAudioBot's Avatar
I‘m almost convinced lol
How is the Klasik tweeter? Although the HS8 is rather cold and fatiguing, I have the impression it helps me create relatively smooth mixes. Not missing low end either...

Seems I will go to a local shop nearby (da-x here in berlin) soon and set them up in my studio and eventually sell my Yamahas if they impress me as many of you

To be honest, the look of the Klasik‘s isn‘t very sexy and looks like a bookshelf hifi speaker my dad had in the early 90‘s
Old 27th April 2020 | Show parent
  #42
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJ99 View Post
Had the Yamaha HS5, then the HS8 and now the old Klasiks. All I can say is that the Yamahas feel like toys in comparison (it's maybe okay because the HS8 are also half the price of the Klasiks).

When thinking about the Yamahas now, ear fatigue, harshness, 2D, boring, mud comes to mind.

When thinking about the Klasiks: neutral, depth, honest. One of the main reasons I got them was their good reviews everywhere and their bass extension to avoid buying a sub (down to 35hz). I can really judge the low end well, which I couldn't on my older sets of monitors.
Also they are kind of inspiring to me. Their sound keeps me being creative somehow.
Aaaaaaaaand sold.

I've heard enough, i'm gonna buy em blind

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrAudioBot View Post
To be honest, the look of the Klasik‘s isn‘t very sexy and looks like a bookshelf hifi speaker my dad had in the early 90‘s
Yeah, i was hoping for a walnut woodgrain style finish. Something about that look would feel more "boutique". But the black certainly isn't bad. It's got a bit of a faux wood grain finish. The more i've looked at it the more i've warmed to it. I'll take it. It's the sound that matters most anyway
Old 27th April 2020 | Show parent
  #43
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Amroth's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barncore View Post
Aaaaaaaaand sold.

I've heard enough, i'm gonna buy em blind

Yeah, i was hoping for a walnut woodgrain style finish. Something about that look would feel more "boutique". But the black certainly isn't bad. It's got a bit of a faux wood grain finish. The more i've looked at it the more i've warmed to it. I'll take it. It's the sound that matters most anyway
Welcome to the club bro

I wanted to get them in a white finish (APS are able to make it in almost any finish you want- check their facebook page and you'll see all kinds). However that would cost extra plus take 4 more weeks. So I went with black and told myself when I have some extra time I will unscrew the drivers from their enclosures and paint them myself...
Old 27th April 2020 | Show parent
  #44
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mutetourettes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amroth View Post
Welcome to the club bro

I wanted to get them in a white finish (APS are able to make it in almost any finish you want- check their facebook page and you'll see all kinds). However that would cost extra plus take 4 more weeks. So I went with black and told myself when I have some extra time I will unscrew the drivers from their enclosures and paint them myself...
aah, i thought in the video/stream he said it's Henry Ford for the Klassik 2020s - any colour as long as it's black
Old 27th April 2020 | Show parent
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mutetourettes View Post
aah, i thought in the video/stream he said it's Henry Ford for the Klassik 2020s - any colour as long as it's black
according to the Canadian distributor, the Klasik 2020s are black only for now and they will bring the fancy finishes back later

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amroth View Post
I was briefly lusting for the Genelec 8341 or 8351 because I heard that they are basically the best you can get for nearfields/ midfields along with the Amphions one18/ two18. But with both of those models I simply can't afford to dump that much cash (more like credit) since audio is more a hobby these days than a regular income.
imo Amphion is nowhere even close to the level of Genelec 83x1s... I'm not even sure why this forum likes them so much. Amphion doesn't publish much information about the performance of their speakers whereas Genelec puts out a lot of measurements proving they perform like they say they do. There aren't any even basic objective reviews of Amphion speakers out there, never mind a detailed test using the Klippel NFS. Genelec has come up with all kinds of clever and totally unique solutions to issues with loudspeaker design... Amphions are sharp corner boxes loaded with somewhat nicer than average drivers. Genelec are active monitors with all the advantages that entails, Amphions don't even include amps.. and their amp modules don't even use great modules and cost far too much per watt.

Charge a premium price and people will think they're a premium product, I guess.

Last edited by Temps; 27th April 2020 at 03:40 PM..
Old 27th April 2020 | Show parent
  #46
Gear Addict
 
Amroth's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Temps View Post
according to the Canadian distributor, the Klasik 2020s are black only for now and they will bring the fancy finishes back later
It's only available in black if you are trying to get them from distributors. Hope he won't mind me sharing, but if you are really dead-set on a custom paintjob you could get sorted if you deal with Ray directly and are ready to fork over the extra cash.
Old 28th April 2020
  #47
Gear Nut
When I first compared them, I was very surprised. The new Klasik 2020 should be kept in mind when you choose monitors around 1000 euros.
Attached Thumbnails
APS Klasik 2020-image-2020-04-28-13-57-31.jpg  
Old 28th April 2020 | Show parent
  #48
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lowlou's Avatar
I'd be curious to hear from someone that can compare their old pair of Klasiks to the new 2020 version !
Old 28th April 2020 | Show parent
  #49
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DrAudioBot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knstntn View Post
When I first compared them, I was very surprised. The new Klasik 2020 should be kept in mind when you choose monitors around 1000 euros.
A bit more info would be nice
Old 28th April 2020 | Show parent
  #50
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barncore View Post
I've been researching what monitors to buy for the past week and was starting to lean towards Klasik 2020's and then your post sealed the deal. I've been using Yamaha HS80M myself (and JBL LSR305) and i'm hungry for that new pair of monitors that makes me hear mixes in a whole new way. The way you described your experience, that's what i want. Also, i've read numerous great things about APS and i really much prefer the idea of going with a smaller Boutique company rather than a mass produced prosumer product. I'm sold.

Anyway, i'm just wondering if you could expand on your feelings a little more. What was it that made you emotional? Can you expand on your experience with the 3D sound, is it sort of holographic? How's the front-back depth? What's your room dimensions/treatment like? After 2 weeks, is your experience still positive? Thanks!


https://www.aps-company.com/distributors/
Room dimensions, too small for a control room for sure.
i have serious issues in the low end, but i have treated a bit with bass traps and first reflections. still huge dip in the low end.

for 3d sound i mean that i could only "see" sound in 2 dimensions before, now i can clearly perceive in in a 3d dimensional way...not sure how to explain it, as it was the first time i heard music/sound that way without being high on something

I have been working on them a little for some mix/mastering projects of friends and so far eveyone is happy including me.

what made me emotional??? hearing music like i know really well, in a sober stato of mind, like never before
Old 28th April 2020 | Show parent
  #51
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amroth View Post
It's only available in black if you are trying to get them from distributors. Hope he won't mind me sharing, but if you are really dead-set on a custom paintjob you could get sorted if you deal with Ray directly and are ready to fork over the extra cash.
i got them from APS directly and they said klasiks 2020 are only black
Old 28th April 2020 | Show parent
  #52
That's so awesome. Thanks for sharing.
I already sent Ray the payment 4 hours ago anyway lol, but now my excitement is reinforced even more.

They should arrive in 2 weeks or so. I'll post my impressions here after i break them in and listen to all my reference tracks
Old 28th April 2020 | Show parent
  #53
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrAudioBot View Post
A bit more info would be nice
They have a good increase in the detail of the sound in the lower middle and the lower range as a whole (I'm not talking about the comparison with AEON2, but with the previous Klasik model.). The new power amplifiers also make the sound more open and detailed.

You should still test them yourself. Since we're all very different.
Old 28th April 2020
  #54
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DrAudioBot's Avatar
Thanks! Will absolutely test myself.
Old 28th April 2020
  #55
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I got mine today. I am replacing a pair of Emotiva Airmotiv 6 speakers that I have had perpetual issues with the amplifiers on. Early impressions: people did not lie about the fantastic imaging and they have a pretty large sweet spot too which is nice for casual listening. In this price range I am a big fan of the 5in Genelecs, and the APS Klasik 2020s, while slightly less detailed (in my recollection I don't have a pair of Genelecs to A/B), are way more fun to listen to since they actually have bass extension without an external sub. From the demos I have done versus the bigger Eve SC208 and Adam A7X I think these sound a bit better. Coherent lower midrange too, the Emotiva monitors have lower-mid suck-out that they do in order to give the impression of detail or something I think, but it tends to make male vocals sound dead. These do not have this issue. Anyways they're good speakers, really stellar imaging and bass response for a 7in 2-way monitor. Also I didn't detect any port noise whatsoever, even in songs with large amounts of sub-bass kick that I played in an attempt to aggravate it, so I am guessing whatever they did with the port on these worked. I got these for semi-casual use in my home office and they seem just about perfect for that use case.
Old 29th April 2020 | Show parent
  #56
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinx7 View Post
I got mine today. I am replacing a pair of Emotiva Airmotiv 6 speakers that I have had perpetual issues with the amplifiers on. Early impressions: people did not lie about the fantastic imaging and they have a pretty large sweet spot too which is nice for casual listening. In this price range I am a big fan of the 5in Genelecs, and the APS Klasik 2020s, while slightly less detailed (in my recollection I don't have a pair of Genelecs to A/B), are way more fun to listen to since they actually have bass extension without an external sub. From the demos I have done versus the bigger Eve SC208 and Adam A7X I think these sound a bit better. Coherent lower midrange too, the Emotiva monitors have lower-mid suck-out that they do in order to give the impression of detail or something I think, but it tends to make male vocals sound dead. These do not have this issue. Anyways they're good speakers, really stellar imaging and bass response for a 7in 2-way monitor. Also I didn't detect any port noise whatsoever, even in songs with large amounts of sub-bass kick that I played in an attempt to aggravate it, so I am guessing whatever they did with the port on these worked. I got these for semi-casual use in my home office and they seem just about perfect for that use case.
Hi, thank you!
Give them some time to burn-in. They'll show themselves even better.

Do you work for them or just listen to music?
The thing is, they show a lot better performance for work than all speakers you listed. It's my opinion.
Old 29th April 2020
  #57
Here for the gear
 

Mostly listen, little bit of work.
Old 29th April 2020
  #58
Gear Head
currently looking to buy new monitors, how do the Klasik compare to the Neumann (KH 120 or 80)? Especially looking for good midrange detail as I mainly mix guitar based music. The new Klasik are supposed to have better midrange clarity, can somebody comment on that?
Old 29th April 2020 | Show parent
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaleidoscope View Post
currently looking to buy new monitors, how do the Klasik compare to the Neumann (KH 120 or 80)? Especially looking for good midrange detail as I mainly mix guitar based music. The new Klasik are supposed to have better midrange clarity, can somebody comment on that?
Independent objective test of the KH80 here. Very impressive measurements and one of the highest performance-per-dollar speakers these guys have tested, comparable to the Adam S2V except with way less peak SPL and bass extension, obviously.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...-review.11018/

Klasiks could very well be a 7" class version of the KH80 but the lack of 3rd party objective testing or measurements provided by the manufacturer make that impossible to ascertain. Neumann's measurements have been verified again and again so if you like what you see for the KH 120, they'd be a safe buy.

Subjective impressions from random people on a forum are completely and utterly worthless for deciding what monitors to get (imo). You can learn how to interpret the advanced measurements to narrow stuff down but in the end you have to audition in your own room to really know for sure.

edit: turns out you just gotta search in German to find objective test of the old version of the Klasik. https://www.soundandrecording.de/equ...nitor-im-test/ Very good performance but it looks like it could be quite sensitive to the room. The vertical sweetspot is very small, probably due to the lack of a waveguide on the tweeter. The enclosure is very well built and free of resonances - better than the Amphion One18 in that respect even though the One18 costs four times as much.

The bass extension is best in its class although distortion levels are somewhat higher than is normal for a studio monitor. In terms of peak output, it is way down relative to the KH 120/Genelec 8040 and is more in the class of the KH 80 in that respect. The new Klasik version supposedly fixed that. Group delay is typical but obviously not as good as the KH 80 with its smaller driver. Phase measurements for the Klasik aren't provided but I seriously doubt it'd be as linear as the KH 80.

The more I look at this, the better and better the KH 80 looks. It's one of the newest and most technologically advanced monitors on sale today. The question would be (imo), for roughly the same money, do you want the most analytical, ruler flat, room agnostic speaker possible, or do you want to make some sacrifices for an extra octave of bass? The KH 80 also has DSP for room correction, time delay, etc. which the Klasik wouldn't have. You can always add a KH 750 subwoofer later if you need it - Neumann's subwoofer pricing is extremely fair by studio monitor standards.

Last edited by Temps; 29th April 2020 at 11:32 PM..
Old 29th April 2020 | Show parent
  #60
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by Temps View Post
Independent objective test of the KH80 here. Very impressive measurements and one of the highest performance-per-dollar speakers these guys have tested, comparable to the Adam S2V except with way less peak SPL and bass extension, obviously.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...-review.11018/

Klasiks could very well be a 7" class version of the KH80 but the lack of 3rd party objective testing or measurements provided by the manufacturer make that impossible to ascertain. Neumann's measurements have been verified again and again so if you like what you see for the KH 120, they'd be a safe buy.

Subjective impressions from random people on a forum are completely and utterly worthless for deciding what monitors to get (imo). You can learn how to interpret the advanced measurements to narrow stuff down but in the end you have to audition in your own room to really know for sure.

edit: turns out you just gotta search in German to find objective test of the old version of the Klasik. https://www.soundandrecording.de/equ...nitor-im-test/ Very good performance but it looks like it could be quite sensitive to the room. The vertical sweetspot is very small, probably due to the lack of a waveguide on the tweeter. The enclosure is very well built and free of resonances - better than the Amphion One18 in that respect even though the One18 costs four times as much.

The bass extension is best in its class although distortion levels are somewhat higher than is normal for a studio monitor. In terms of peak output, it is way down relative to the KH 120/Genelec 8040 and is more in the class of the KH 80 in that respect. The new Klasik version supposedly fixed that. Group delay is typical but obviously not as good as the KH 80 with its smaller driver. Phase measurements for the Klasik aren't provided but I seriously doubt it'd be as linear as the KH 80.

The more I look at this, the better and better the KH 80 looks. It's one of the newest and most technologically advanced monitors on sale today. The question would be (imo), for roughly the same money, do you want the most analytical, ruler flat, room agnostic speaker possible, or do you want to make some sacrifices for an extra octave of bass? The KH 80 also has DSP for room correction, time delay, etc. which the Klasik wouldn't have. You can always add a KH 750 subwoofer later if you need it - Neumann's subwoofer pricing is extremely fair by studio monitor standards.
Thanks for all the detailed info, I get the feeling that the Neumanns truly are the flattest monitors you can get at this price range, maybe Genelec's would be another contender. So right now I'm heavily leaning towards the "get the KH80 and a sub later" route. KH80 are supposed to have very revealing mids which will be perfect for my mixing genres. For more bass I'll maybe look into getting a pair of JBL 305's as second monitors, just for a more fun curve and less boxy enclosure. Fortunately I can shootout both the KH80 and the new Klasik 2020 at a store here in Berlin (DAX), which I'll try to do on Friday. Will report back!
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