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Toontrack announces Kicks & Snares EZX
Old 31st January 2020
  #31
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jollyr View Post
I personally just drag the midi into my DAW and trim out the hits I don’t need.
This is how I usually do things as well. I'll get close within EZD and sometimes use functions like number of hits within a particular bar. But most of the time I find it easiest to drag into my DAW(Pro Tools) and edit it there. Ruffed in with EZD, fine tuned in the DAW.
Old 31st January 2020
  #32
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Hey, I’ve produced some of the simplest, calmest pop/rock midi in any pack - what can I say.
Ahhh you worked for Toontrack. The penny drops

Which pack?
Old 31st January 2020
  #33
Quote:
Originally Posted by SongShark View Post
I find that not just Toontrack, but the other drum programs I formerly used (especially Slate) as well as 3rd party drum grooves are, mostly, "guilty" of this same over-the-top, overly flashy midi grooves. (I've had the best luck with Groove Monkee stuff in this respect -- and find more of those useful.)

The irony is that in virtually all of the music and genres I like -- when I focus my listening on drums, I'm continually amazed to realize they're most often playing simple backbeats and simple fills -- with lots of space. Nowhere near as "busy" as most of the commercial midi grooves.

It sort of feels like 95% of commercial available midi grooves represent what I hear in 5% of records -- and vice versa.

I'm thinking that maybe the reason is that when you boil down drum playing -- there are actually so FEW grooves that the best and most tasteful drummers actually use and play in their real sessions -- that it doesn't support a business model which requires constantly releasing new groove packs? Disclaimer -- I'm NOT a drummer (other than backbeat) -- so I could well be wrong about this -- and I stand ready to be educated!

I started out programming all my own drum parts -- which were mostly things I could've actually played myself on real drums -- and using my DAW to slightly randomize timing and velocities -- and was relatively satisfied. Then, assuming "real drummers" knew more than me -- I shifted to relying on pre-made midi-grooves.

But I'm beginning to wonder how much those marketed grooves actually represent what "real drummers" would play for a "real sessions."

In any case I completely agree that it seems hard to ferret out simple and spacious grooves -- and especially fills -- in all these midi packs -- and that there seems to be a preponderance of "over-the-top" flashy (and annoying) grooves and fills. And this doesn't just apply to Toontrack.

And while I'm here -- OMG I wish Toontrack would find a way to LABEL their grooves in a way that better identifies them when you drag them into your DAW. In Logic it'll just be labelled "Variation 1" or some such -- providing NO CLUE where you found it -- in case you want to go back later to the source -- for related alternatives.
Spot on.

Subtracting hits and adjusting with velocity can not satisfactorily get around the problem of complexity and the 'busy' beats and fills that are the bread and butter of the Toontrack business model. I'm not saying there's NO simple beat and fill options...just that they are underrepresented.

Some people feel at home going in with a magnifying glass and tweaking midi clips inside the DAW editor...and that's a fine pursuit...but it sure isn't for everyone. I find it a) frustrating in the most extreme way and b) defeats the purpose of the entire ezdrummer idea.

I've emailed Toontrack about this idea of simplicity and they have passed the idea on to their developers apparently. So maybe one day.

Send them a quick email if you think more simple beats/ fills are needed. They got back to me in a day.
Old 31st January 2020
  #34
Gear Head
 
Conan12's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SongShark View Post
And while I'm here -- OMG I wish Toontrack would find a way to LABEL their grooves in a way that better identifies them when you drag them into your DAW. In Logic it'll just be labelled "Variation 1" or some such -- providing NO CLUE where you found it -- in case you want to go back later to the source -- for related alternatives.
Amen!
Old 31st January 2020
  #35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conan12 View Post
Amen!
Double amen
Old 31st January 2020
  #36
Quote:
Originally Posted by hello people View Post
Ahhh you worked for Toontrack. The penny drops
Consistently over several years I have agreed with you about over complex midi. I've always tried to help you and also explained why I think it happens.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hello people View Post
Which pack?
The midi included with 'Custom & Vintage' and the midi in 'EZX: The Classic'.

I'm a pop rock drummer who has made a living playing songs. I am not capable of overly complex fills.
By the way, I don't gain anything (financially or otherwise) by helping people with things like this....
Old 31st January 2020
  #37
Quote:
Originally Posted by SongShark View Post
Hey Chrisso -- if you're referring to your own midi packs -- which are your the ones that have the most "boring 2 & 4 midi?" When it comes to drum grooves - I have a feeling that "boring 2 & 4" is exactly what I'm looking for!
The idea for me is to create midi that appeals to lots of people.
So my midi has simple 2 & 4, but also some odd time signatures and different feels like 12/8 shuffle.

Personally, I think the same is true of other packs. there is not one that is all 'boring' simple drumming, but there are quite a few that have simple grooves as well as more complex ones.
The midi for EZX Kick and Snare is like that. There are some simple 2 & 4 grooves, then some more complex stuff for other buyers.

One of the best 3rd party midi packs in my opinion is the Steve Ferrone midi:
http://www.platinumsamples.com/ps/St...oneGrooves.php
Old 31st January 2020
  #38
Recording music is a form art which requires some WORK. We live in an age of time where drummers like Chrisso provide amateurs like me fantastic basic material to record songs with.

I am sorry to inform you this extension is not a virtual bassist and of course all provided drum patterns will not suit everybody’s songs. So what to do? Edit. Cut, paste and every now and then hit a beat yourself. It’s fun to do remember?

Thank you Toontrack for giving me drum patterns and sounds that enable me to record at home.

Thank you Chrisso for hanging out here. Will never forget the Flowers in the Dirt concert in the Netherlands. Fab. Best lineup since the early Wings days.
Old 31st January 2020
  #39
Old 31st January 2020
  #40
Lives for gear
 
nightchef's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pucks View Post
Recording music is a form art which requires some WORK. We live in an age of time where drummers like Chrisso provide amateurs like me fantastic basic material to record songs with.

I am sorry to inform you this extension is not a virtual bassist and of course all provided drum patterns will not suit everybody’s songs. So what to do? Edit. Cut, paste and every now and then hit a beat yourself. It’s fun to do remember?
This is totally fair. Yes, there is doubtless no better example of First World entitlement/hubris than complaining because a company with a userbase probably in the millions has somehow failed to provide me with exactly the prefabricated creative content that *I* need for my project -- content that would probably be useless for nearly all the other users because every song, and every moment in a song, is different, and what I really need is a fill that is tailored for that precise moment, the way a real drummer would do it. In which case I need to either roll up my sleeves and get better at drum programming, or hire a real forking drummer already.

Mea maxima culpa!

(But still, Toontrack.....about those fills....)
Old 31st January 2020
  #41
Lives for gear
 
VitaEtMusica's Avatar
 

The sheer amount and variety of kicks and snares included in this ezx is bonkers. For $89? Can't go wrong.
Old 31st January 2020
  #42
Gear Maniac
 
theXbucket's Avatar
 

I love this expansion, huge amount of quality sounds and the enhanced channels to get a little snap and boom are very handy and well produced.

as for the beats - i have tons of their libraries even if i programm a lot on my own. with a little research everybody can program easy beats and knowing what a drummer can play can never harm you. Imagine Movie Soundtrack composers didn´t knew what the cellos, flutes etc can play and how they play. We got so much content these days that we have to learn not to be lazy otherwise you are totally limited and for drums - its the beat of a song so its very important.

Watching youtube videos about drumming helps a lot here and for basic beats its not that much of a deal; if you try to do a bit of velocity and timing work. Indeed lots of fun and after a while you have the beats you really need and can alter everything to your needs. For the more complex grooves or fills you have those provided midi files as a base.

if you dont like probably ujam, logic drummer or jamstix is the better option, which in my sense limits too much.
Old 6th February 2020
  #43
Gear Maniac
 
DaPhunk73's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Extensive review:
Just watched this, and I must say it sounds really really impressive. I have got to own this.

A lot of times, with sample libraries, even though there is 20,50,100 different snares, they all somewhat taste the same. Really impressed with the diversity in sound and character here.

Seems like the most useful sample pack ever!



__________________
----------------------------------
Kim Thomsen
Copenhagen, Denmark
Drummer, online drums from my own studio
www.youtube.com/daphunk73
Old 6th February 2020
  #44
Gear Maniac
 

Anybody that's bought this: are there any very dry drums, or are they all room verb'y?
Old 8th February 2020
  #45
Yes there are dry drums. Drums recorded in smaller, dead rooms, and drum booths.
Old 10th February 2020
  #46
Lives for gear
 

If I own almost all the SD2 libraries and the new SD3 and SDX Decades .....

Is there any point in buying this pack?
@ chrisso - your thoughts?
Old 10th February 2020
  #47
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Krubbadoo's Avatar
 

Owning almost every SDX and a few EZX, including Decades, I just bought this one during the weekend. Lots of great tones and flexiility.
Due to the various mics and transients/subs available, I'd say this pack is more punchy and has more attack (if you want) than most other ones.
Really cool and at this price, no brainer.
Old 10th February 2020
  #48
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krubbadoo View Post
Owning almost every SDX and a few EZX, including Decades, I just bought this one during the weekend. Lots of great tones and flexiility.
Due to the various mics and transients/subs available, I'd say this pack is more punchy and has more attack (if you want) than most other ones.
Really cool and at this price, no brainer.
Great, thanks for the feedback
Old 11th February 2020
  #49
Hard for me to persuade someone to buy this.
I guess as selling points for people who already own a bunch of samples....
1) There are a few unique sounds
2) It really does concentrate on kicks and snares, which are often the most crucial elements in a recording.
Old 14th February 2020
  #50
Gear Maniac
 
solveforq's Avatar
 

You win Toontrack. I've used BFD (with most of the expansion content as well) since 03 and I've quit wishing FXpansion will catch up. I purchased SD3 yesterday and this expansion pack is immediatly going to the top of my shopping list. Sometimes the grass is actually greener on the other side...
Old 15th February 2020
  #51
Lives for gear
 
zohomoho's Avatar
 

Never liked toontrack or any canned "sounds like your favorite band" type samples. However, I like this, easy to mix and the toms, yeah baby, those Slingerland toms are smooth. The cymbals are nice too. I never heard of le soprano drums and wow, that's the snare sound I've been searching for.
Old 28th February 2020
  #52
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bgood's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hello people View Post
I have a handful of their expansions. I'll look into this one. But, like a lot of their stuff in terms of the midi provided, I'm guessing it'll be more of the over-the-top heavy handed smashing fills and wild animal like beats. I've heard their very own ballad stuff and the country stuff sound like a 10 kilo tonne explosion. I wish they would put out some expansions that are very laid back, with simple, simple, simple fills etc. I should email them again I suppose. I do like their stuff and the sounds are ok...but there's a market, surely, for much more simple midi. What they need is something like "Old School Country"...maybe modern sounding drums with old school beats and fills. Something simple!

Everything you are saying that you wish they had they have already lol

They’ve got lots of laid back americana, classic country.. simple fills...

If you would just develop a severe OCD disease like me, you’d make sure to buy every single release and that way you’d have every sort of style you could ever ask for
Old 28th February 2020
  #53
Lives for gear
 
bgood's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
The idea for me is to create midi that appeals to lots of people.
So my midi has simple 2 & 4, but also some odd time signatures and different feels like 12/8 shuffle.

Personally, I think the same is true of other packs. there is not one that is all 'boring' simple drumming, but there are quite a few that have simple grooves as well as more complex ones.
The midi for EZX Kick and Snare is like that. There are some simple 2 & 4 grooves, then some more complex stuff for other buyers.

One of the best 3rd party midi packs in my opinion is the Steve Ferrone midi:
http://www.platinumsamples.com/ps/St...oneGrooves.php
This is an excellent midi library...
Old 28th February 2020
  #54
Lives for gear
 
bgood's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conan12 View Post
Amen!
I Always build in the song builder deal within the plugin for this specific reason... once everything is pretty much done I’ll drag the midi onto the track and mute it within the plugin... BUT it still is there in the plugin, so, I can still click on the fill on bar 112 and have the plugin look it up and take me right to the directory that it originally came from...

Think of it this way... there’s no other way TT could’ve handled file naming... they have dozens upon dozens of releases, each with a title... each title is made up of several “songs” each with a name... then section and variation...

So, a midi file name for a will would be something like:

ClassicCountry-BlueSwing-Verse1a.mid...
Old 28th February 2020
  #55
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgood View Post
So, a midi file name for a will would be something like:

ClassicCountry-BlueSwing-Verse1a.mid...
Which, to me, would be infinitely preferable to "Variation 2."

For me, the workflow of building and editing songs in the EZ Drummer song-builder has seemed so much slower and clunkier than in my DAW (Logic).

What I've been doing is either renaming grooves manually or else keeping extensive notes re: which grooves I'm using in a given project. I'd rather see TT just give their groves unique names -- even if they must be as long as you suggest. Or alternatively maybe they could develop an abbreviation system that would direct the user to where to they came from. To take your example: CC-BS-V1a. At worst -- no less useful than "Variation 2."
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