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AES 2019: CB Electronics introduces XPatch-32 digitally controlled analogue patchbay
Old 29th October 2019
  #31
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XPatch-32 Unique Features

XPatch-32 Unique Features

Old 4th November 2019
  #32
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Paul Drew from The Studio Rats Unboxing of the XPatch-32

Paul Drew from The Studio Rats Unboxing of the XPatch-32

Old 4th November 2019
  #33
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Rtroost's Avatar
This looks really inteesting. Are you shipping?
Old 7th November 2019
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rtroost View Post
This looks really inteesting. Are you shipping?
Hi Rtroost,

Yes the XPatch-32 is Shipping.
Old 8th November 2019
  #35
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OSC selection of Snapshots and Paths added to XPatch-32!

OSC selection of Snapshots and Paths added to XPatch-32!

Old 4 weeks ago
  #36
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Hardware Paul Drew from The Studio Rats Connecting all his Gear to the XPatch-32!

Paul Drew from The Studio Rats Connecting all his Gear to the XPatch-32!

Old 4 weeks ago
  #37
I probably know the answer to this, but is it possible for ins to be routed as outs and vice versa? Can I send ins to ins/outs to outs?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam guaiana View Post
I probably know the answer to this, but is it possible for ins to be routed as outs and vice versa? Can I send ins to ins/outs to outs?
Hi Sam I am not sure that this is what you are asking
The inputs and outputs are not bidirectional as there are buffer amplifiers with gain control and muting on both input and output.

Colin
Old 4 weeks ago
  #39
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBElectronics View Post
Hi Sam I am not sure that this is what you are asking
The inputs and outputs are not bidirectional as there are buffer amplifiers with gain control and muting on both input and output.

Colin
Basically curious if the inputs and outputs are dedicated inputs and outputs or if I can assign them other roles. Trying to figure out how to incorporate this into my setup but it’ll leave a ton of inputs unused, but if they can be repurposed as outputs, then they now have a use!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam guaiana View Post
Basically curious if the inputs and outputs are dedicated inputs and outputs or if I can assign them other roles. Trying to figure out how to incorporate this into my setup but it’ll leave a ton of inputs unused, but if they can be repurposed as outputs, then they now have a use!
Interested in this too. The Flock Audio Patch cannot repurpose inputs to be outputs. I don’t know what the explanation for that is, because you can do that on any analogue patch bay, obviously...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam guaiana View Post
Basically curious if the inputs and outputs are dedicated inputs and outputs or if I can assign them other roles. Trying to figure out how to incorporate this into my setup but it’ll leave a ton of inputs unused, but if they can be repurposed as outputs, then they now have a use!
I am intrigued to know your setup?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #42
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elambo's Avatar
Impressive! I've been waiting for 15 years for someone to get this right and I think you're checking many, if not all, of the necessary boxes. I've grown tired of working with all the hardware I've accumulated, being limited by physical cable runs and unplugging/replugging as needed. If the GUI is solid and intuitive then you have my interest.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #43
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBElectronics View Post
I am intrigued to know your setup?
Lets say I've got 64 points to play with. In this layout I won't be patching any preamps ins through the bay, just the outs.

I have 16 outboard pres that I use, all patched to my interface, so I need 16 outs of those pres into the patchbay, as well as the 16 ins of my MOTU 16a. Then, I will take the 8 pieces of outboard compression I have and wire them in, taking up another 8 ins and outs, now at 24 of the available 32 IO taken up.

For all tracking intents and purposes, this meets my needs. However, I'll occasionally reach for some outboard to mix. No worries, I have 8 IO left in the patchbay, so I'll wire 8 of them in. After all I usually only pick a couple pieces here and there.

But now here's the dilemma... I have 8 unused channels on this thing. I can't use them to wire in my other 8 outputs because I can't reassign them, and I can't use them as 4 sets of IO if I ever get a few more pieces of outboard because, you guessed it, I can't reassign them.

So now an eighth of this patchbay is completely useless to me unless I give something else up. That seems impractical to me, because on a real patch bay, I can just make ins outs or outs ins, or whatever I want. Who cares if they line up and down, or left and right, or if the in for a piece of gear is number and and the out for that piece of gear is number 17 on the patch bay? Obviously I'm being facetious with that last little bit, but you see my problem now? I would never pay so much money for something with arguably less practical function than a real patchbay.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #44
Gear Nut
 

Did not read the whole thing.

What is the price on these?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #45
Gear Nut
 

And, can this be used like a mastering routing box?

e.g. EQ, Comp, Enhancer hardware chain and put them in any order?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam guaiana View Post
Lets say I've got 64 points to play with. In this layout I won't be patching any preamps ins through the bay, just the outs.

I have 16 outboard pres that I use, all patched to my interface, so I need 16 outs of those pres into the patchbay, as well as the 16 ins of my MOTU 16a. Then, I will take the 8 pieces of outboard compression I have and wire them in, taking up another 8 ins and outs, now at 24 of the available 32 IO taken up.

For all tracking intents and purposes, this meets my needs. However, I'll occasionally reach for some outboard to mix. No worries, I have 8 IO left in the patchbay, so I'll wire 8 of them in. After all I usually only pick a couple pieces here and there.

But now here's the dilemma... I have 8 unused channels on this thing. I can't use them to wire in my other 8 outputs because I can't reassign them, and I can't use them as 4 sets of IO if I ever get a few more pieces of outboard because, you guessed it, I can't reassign them.

So now an eighth of this patchbay is completely useless to me unless I give something else up. That seems impractical to me, because on a real patch bay, I can just make ins outs or outs ins, or whatever I want. Who cares if they line up and down, or left and right, or if the in for a piece of gear is number and and the out for that piece of gear is number 17 on the patch bay? Obviously I'm being facetious with that last little bit, but you see my problem now? I would never pay so much money for something with arguably less practical function than a real patchbay.
I think that you are missing the point of the XPatch-32, with only 32 inputs and 32 outputs it cannot replace a large patch bay. What it can do is to allow you to use your favorite devices( dynamics, equalisation, mic amps) in the same way as you use plugins. You can enable/disable different combinations at a click of the mouse and recall setups via midi. Sorry that it is not for for you.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #47
Gear Nut
 

Hey. Were you able to get the midi PC and CC thing worked out? And also the din5 connection?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #48
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crufty's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam guaiana View Post
But now here's the dilemma...
My take is that this thing is more for outboard. So you would wire your outboard inputs and outputs and then as many channels of i/o as you would want. like inline 2bus / mix groups and aux send/return loops, where you might, or might not want, chorus, pitch shift, delay, verb1, verb2 across 2 - 4 channels from/to a board.

To me 32 channels is 16 stereo—4 stereo i/o (main, group 1, send / return 1, send/return 2) and 12 processors (delay, chorus, verb1, verb2, eq1, eq2, Limiter 1, limiter 2, compressor 1, compressor 2, etc).

For da/ad many interfaces have virtual patch bay sw so might be easier to just extend with another 16channels of i/o.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #49
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBElectronics View Post
I think that you are missing the point of the XPatch-32, with only 32 inputs and 32 outputs it cannot replace a large patch bay. What it can do is to allow you to use your favorite devices( dynamics, equalisation, mic amps) in the same way as you use plugins. You can enable/disable different combinations at a click of the mouse and recall setups via midi. Sorry that it is not for for you.
Right but I don’t run a commercial facility. I have 16 pres, 8 compressors, and 4 EQs and that’s it. Not only can I not incorporate that conservative number of pieces, but any chance of expansion means I need to remove something else. All of these companies are doing 32/32 when at the very least make us a 64 option, or even a 48 option. That’s the ideal home/small studio IO number.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam guaiana View Post
Right but I don’t run a commercial facility. I have 16 pres, 8 compressors, and 4 EQs and that’s it. Not only can I not incorporate that conservative number of pieces, but any chance of expansion means I need to remove something else. All of these companies are doing 32/32 when at the very least make us a 64 option, or even a 48 option. That’s the ideal home/small studio IO number.
Hi Sam
We have a 64x64 version under development, unfortunately it uses 4x as many of the expensive matrix chips and will be at least twice the price!

The pc board layout is finished, the modular construction could enable a 48 and 64 channel version. Provided there is enough interest we will put this into production.

Colin
Old 2 weeks ago
  #51
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by manymanyhaha View Post
Hey. Were you able to get the midi PC and CC thing worked out? And also the din5 connection?
Still curious about this!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #52
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBElectronics View Post
Hi Sam
We have a 64x64 version under development, unfortunately it uses 4x as many of the expensive matrix chips and will be at least twice the price!

The pc board layout is finished, the modular construction could enable a 48 and 64 channel version. Provided there is enough interest we will put this into production.

Colin
The cost wouldn't be an issue if its an end unit for me. Just to be clear, you mean 64 balanced right? Also I think a 48 is a great size neither of the other two current digital patch bays on the market offer.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam guaiana View Post
The cost wouldn't be an issue if its an end unit for me. Just to be clear, you mean 64 balanced right? Also I think a 48 is a great size neither of the other two current digital patch bays on the market offer.
Yes it is 64 channel balanced input with the possibility of using part of it as a monitor controller controlled by our TMC-1 or TMC-2 controller. All other functions will be the same as the XPatch-32 including the front panel i/o and display. The XPatch32 software will scale to 64 channel I/O.

I am thinking of setting up a pre-order page on our website, asking for a small (£100) non returnable deposit as a commitment. The main cost will be the 64 channel board and metalwork as the other modules are the same. I can build an initial batch with orders for 5 units.

Musical Instrument Interface
After working with a musician and interfacing pedals we have also developed a alternative input card with balanced 2Mohm input impedance, the standard input card has a 10Kohm balanced input.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #54
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Rtroost's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBElectronics View Post
I am thinking of setting up a pre-order page on our website, asking for a small (£100) non returnable deposit as a commitment. The main cost will be the 64 channel board and metalwork as the other modules are the same. I can build an initial batch with orders for 5 units.
You will have my preorder if you do that.

I would prefer if there is a documented way to set up matrix routing without the software, not because I dont like software but because I would like it to be around in the event that you folks arent, if you get my drift. Since you respond to MIDI, the best way to do this would be documented SYSEX.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rtroost View Post
You will have my preorder if you do that.

I would prefer if there is a documented way to set up matrix routing without the software, not because I dont like software but because I would like it to be around in the event that you folks arent, if you get my drift. Since you respond to MIDI, the best way to do this would be documented SYSEX.
Thanks, I look forward to receiving your order

I can certainly provide the SYSEX commands to set the routing, gain and select the snapshots, you can even see them if you display the comms on my software, they are even labeled!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manymanyhaha View Post
Hey. Were you able to get the midi PC and CC thing worked out? And also the din5 connection?
The midi PC commands are there and tested and available via USB.

We have a new board which includes a 5 pin din, which will be tested next week.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #57
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Rtroost's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBElectronics View Post
Thanks, I look forward to receiving your order
Cool. Let us know when it’s up on the site!
Old 1 week ago
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBElectronics View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by manymanyhaha View Post
Hey. Were you able to get the midi PC and CC thing worked out? And also the din5 connection?
The midi PC commands are there and tested and available via USB.

We have a new board which includes a 5 pin din, which will be tested next week.
That's great! What about CC commands to Mute and also to Bypass individual channels? Is that something you all are going to implement?
Old 1 week ago
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manymanyhaha View Post
That's great! What about CC commands to Mute and also to Bypass individual channels? Is that something you all are going to implement?
The Midi connects directly with the hardware and no computer is required. Initially, I have implemented Snapshot selection this allows you to select between 16 different snapshots (Let me know if you need more!). Each snapshot includes the connections and Gains.

Mute and also to Bypass individual channels?
Output mute is easy to define as this is only 36 mute commands (32 outputs + front panel Jack and XLR), and I will add this to the software.

Bypass is more complicated, defining two possible inputs for an output gives 992 (32*31) possible selections for each of the 32 outputs. A simpler solution is to assign a bypass switch to each of the 32 outputs. If the output is connected to a device then the device can be bypassed, if not then the bypass switch has no function.

To complicate things; should both the Mute and Bypass functions be available as mono or stereo?

The OSC remote (Tablet or mobile phone) connects via a Computer running the XPatch32 software, and allows both snapshot selection and up to 32 path on/off switches. This can even include metering.

Musical Instruments
When testing the XPatch with Guitar pedals we found the the 10K balanced input impedance of the original input cards was not suitable for all pedals, the front panel jack inputs with 5Meg inputs work well. To overcome this we have designed new input cards with 2Meg balanced inputs, the first of which will be available next week. Our current thinking is to offer a XPatch-32MI with 16 High-Impedance inputs at no extra cost.
Old 1 week ago
  #60
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBElectronics View Post
The Midi connects directly with the hardware and no computer is required. Initially, I have implemented Snapshot selection this allows you to select between 16 different snapshots (Let me know if you need more!). Each snapshot includes the connections and Gains.

Mute and also to Bypass individual channels?
Output mute is easy to define as this is only 36 mute commands (32 outputs + front panel Jack and XLR), and I will add this to the software.

Bypass is more complicated, defining two possible inputs for an output gives 992 (32*31) possible selections for each of the 32 outputs. A simpler solution is to assign a bypass switch to each of the 32 outputs. If the output is connected to a device then the device can be bypassed, if not then the bypass switch has no function.

To complicate things; should both the Mute and Bypass functions be available as mono or stereo?

The OSC remote (Tablet or mobile phone) connects via a Computer running the XPatch32 software, and allows both snapshot selection and up to 32 path on/off switches. This can even include metering.

Musical Instruments
When testing the XPatch with Guitar pedals we found the the 10K balanced input impedance of the original input cards was not suitable for all pedals, the front panel jack inputs with 5Meg inputs work well. To overcome this we have designed new input cards with 2Meg balanced inputs, the first of which will be available next week. Our current thinking is to offer a XPatch-32MI with 16 High-Impedance inputs at no extra cost.
I think if you are serious about the XPatch being flexible enough to be utilized for performance as well as a studio patchbay, you should have the maximum 128 snapshots allowed by midi (0-127).

If I am understanding the dilemma correctly, I think output bypass would be fine. So assignable CC's for 32 Mutes and 32 output Bypasses would go a long way towards making this a performance machine.

I'm not sure I understand the mono/stereo question. Is each channel able to be mono and stereo (stereo with a trs cable)? If so, I did not realize that!

Hadn't thought about the input problem. 16 is a lot of guitar inputs! I know for my purposes, I'd only need two but can't speak for others! Or are those 16 of the 32 and they are exclusively for guitar pedals? I don't think I am understanding.
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