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Old 11th February 2020
  #181
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmri View Post
Ok too bad have to setup the screensaver... have 3 units and no problems with the display
Old 11th February 2020
  #182
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Antelope Audio View Post
This was taken out of context. Firstly, I would kindly ask you go back to comment #169 in this thread. What you quoted me on is true and I was referring to updating the devices with new effects and for example AFX2DAW compatibility
(which simply cannot run on devices like the Orion 32 HD or the first version Orion 32, because they only have a USB connection, which is insufficient). As per OS compatibility, I was referring to the devices like the Eclipse 384 and this was taken of course - out of context. My sentence was quoted in a very convenient way.

I tried to give you the most realistic picture, and in order to do that, I wanted to explain each case scenario like the Eclipse's, please do not try to interpret what we mean as we are direct and straightforward with what we are saying.

We did NOT announce a new control panel version and we wouldn't have said anything about it if someone didn't bring it up here, so please again do not interpret. There was no panic whatsoever regarding my answer and if anything remained unclear for someone it was answered.

Using the phrase bug free is quite showing, I can assure you that AFX2DAW for Windows will be available for the Orion Studio series, not just one unit.

Again, no one has ever said anything about driver support stopping, you could still run an Eclipse with the latest OS versions.

If you have any questions or are in need of clarification - please ask.
So what you said a couple of posts ago isn't true either
Quote:
I believe that our support team already told told you that we have a control panel version ready with those features for the Orion Studio Rev. 2017 and we should get it out this week
Now it's changed to
Quote:
We did NOT announce a new control panel version
Other manufacturers manage to have a clear communication...it only seems to be a problem for Antelope.


AFX2DAW was announced as an included feature when the 2017 interfaces were launched. It was in the product description/features list, wether on your website or on vendors sites like Thomann, Guitar Center...
It's still not available today almost 3 years after launch date (windows)
Old 11th February 2020
  #183
Company Rep
 
Sam Antelope Audio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Tammer View Post
So what you said a couple of posts ago isn't true either
Now it's changed to
Other manufacturers manage to have a clear communication...it only seems to be a problem for Antelope.


AFX2DAW was announced as an included feature when the 2017 interfaces were launched. It was in the product description/features list, wether on your website or on vendors like Thomann, Guitar Center...
It's still not available today almost 3 years after launch date (windows)
I believe that I was clear in my previous comment that we wrote about it here, after someone inquired about it, we had no intentions of making an official announcement, as this feature would've been included by default for the Orion Studio Rev. 2017 control panel.

AFX2DAW was communicated in the product descriptions of the Discrete series, which came out November 2017 and shipped December, meaning that it is not close to 3 years. I want to kindly remind you that the Windows Thunderbolt driver came out as a public release in the autumn of 2018 (out of beta) which has to be the base of AFX2DAW for Windows. We will come out with news shortly.
Old 11th February 2020
  #184
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Antelope Audio View Post
This was taken out of context. Firstly, I would kindly ask you go back to comment #169 in this thread. What you quoted me on is true and I was referring to updating the devices with new effects and for example AFX2DAW compatibility
(which simply cannot run on devices like the Orion 32 HD or the first version Orion 32, because they only have a USB connection, which is insufficient). As per OS compatibility, I was referring to the devices like the Eclipse 384 and this was taken of course - out of context. My sentence was quoted in a very convenient way.
What is convenient is that Antelope erased the whole conversation on the Facebook page!
I suggest you put it back and we'll see if it's out of context.
That Facebook conversation didn't mention the Eclipse at all, you did here on Gearslutz in an attempt to blur/wash the whole thing. That was out of context.
Old 11th February 2020
  #185
Lives for gear
 

The thing is...hardware is well designed and offers a good value.
It doesn't sound better than the competition..(quite a few competing products have better conversion/mic preamps) but when you consider the amount of I/O it's a good value and is in the same ballpark
It's just a shame software doesn't follow, some announced features don't work, and bugs or annoying behaviours (presets, disconnections, auto-updates ..etc..) don't get fixed.
The company seems to have the lowest standards/expectations about long term driver support. It seems ok to them if a 2 year old device doesn't get driver updates anymore.

The best way I can see orion boxes used at the moment ... is to buy them super cheap second hand (they have a low resale value on the used market) and hook them up to another audio interface via a madi cable, basically like a standalone converter, not a proper interface.

What you guys need to do is pretty simple, get a team of coders to write proper solid/reliable drivers, with all the features finally working for both OSX and Windows, and provide a longer term driver support.

Do that and no one will complain anymore.
Old 11th February 2020
  #186
Company Rep
 
Sam Antelope Audio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Tammer View Post
The thing is...hardware is well designed and offers a good value.
It doesn't sound better than the competition..(quite a few competing products have better conversion/mic preamps) but when you consider the amount of I/O it's a good value and is in the same ballpark
It's just a shame software doesn't follow, some announced features don't work, and bugs or annoying behaviours (presets, disconnections, auto-updates ..etc..) don't get fixed.
The company seems to have the lowest standards/expectations about long term driver support. It seems ok to them if a 2 year old device doesn't get driver updates anymore.

The best way I can see orion boxes used at the moment ... is to buy them super cheap second hand (they have a low resale value on the used market) and hook them up to another audio interface via a madi cable, basically like a standalone converter, not a proper interface.

What you guys need to do is pretty simple, get a team of coders to write proper solid/reliable drivers, with all the features finally working for both OSX and Windows, and provide a longer term driver support.

Do that and no one will complain anymore.
Nick, are you currently experiencing any issues, could you please let me know what they are, so I could help you with them ASAP? Is your device not supported/updated and not working with your computer?

Could you let me know if you have seen one of our 2 year old device not get driver updates? I would gladly clear this up to let you know that we haven't done this - ever.

Last edited by Sam Antelope Audio; 11th February 2020 at 02:07 PM.. Reason: spelling
Old 11th February 2020
  #187
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Antelope Audio View Post
Nick, are you currently experiencing any issues, could you please let me know what they are, so I could help you with them ASAP? Is your device not supported/updated and not working with your computer?

Could you let me know if you have seen one of our 2 year old device not get driver updates? I would gladly clear this up to let you know that we haven't done this - ever.
Problems/missing features have already been mentioned here : no AFX2DAW on windows, control panel animations, auto-updates , presets, disconnections, panning and various other bugs... Too many annoyances, not compatible with a professional workflow. Bugs were not getting fixed. It's now hooked up to a MADI interface.
Old 11th February 2020
  #188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Antelope Audio View Post
Nick, are you currently experiencing any issues, could you please let me know what they are, so I could help you with them ASAP? Is your device not supported/updated and not working with your computer?
We did write dozens of support tickets on your bug tracker, all of them closed now without resolution or shipping fixes.

You keep ignoring everything, deleting Facebook posts, banning users from the Facebook group and then coming back with a straight face asking how can you help?

This is just ridiculous.
Old 12th February 2020
  #189
Company Rep
 
Sam Antelope Audio's Avatar
 

@ rmri - please feel free to send me all of those tickets, so I can check what resolutions to issues you haven't received. We have already discussed more than once why you were banned from this group, even here. You still have the freedom to participate in Antelope Audio Pro Users, which is a group created and moderated by users and as I told you - you always can communicate with us through our support channel. In our group, we have set rules which you refused to follow multiple times, although you accepted them freely when joining.

To both of you, we did NOT erase anything since as you said this was in the Antelope Audio Pro Users group, which is moderated by users, you can actually see who has those rights in the group, so I would ask you again to not make any interpretations and ask before you come out with statements which logically cannot be true. You can get in touch with the administrators of the group and ask them why the post was deleted.
@ Nick Tammer - Could you send me your support cases in which you have reported your issues, so I can do my best to assist you? Not having a feature, an option actually, I do cannot perceive as an issue, but I would gladly take as a request, we have received plenty to get it out for the public and as I said, we will have news soon.
Old 12th February 2020
  #190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Antelope Audio View Post
@ rmri - please feel free to send me all of those tickets, so I can check what resolutions to issues you haven't received. We have already discussed more than once why you were banned from this group, even here. You still have the freedom to participate in Antelope Audio Pro Users, which is a group created and moderated by users and as I told you - you always can communicate with us through our support channel. In our group, we have set rules which you refused to follow multiple times, although you accepted them freely when joining.
All tickets I filed has been closed as of today, and none of them has been fixed in 6 months. You have an archive, you can go back read them, and come back to me with the fixes and notify me when you actually _ship_ those fixes. Everything else counts as abandoning the product.

It is clear reading the Facebook group posts that multiple users have been experiencing the exact same issues over and over again going back years.

You keep repeating everywhere to file issues, but those issues are promptly closed and no issues have been fixed.

AFX2DAW for Windows, preset saving issues, panning issues and the list goes on.

Also, we are not your beta testers, we are paying customers who paid 2-3k for these interfaces. Seems like Antelope has zero respect for that.
Old 13th February 2020
  #191
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Antelope Audio View Post
Could you let me know if you have seen one of our 2 year old device not get driver updates? I would gladly clear this up to let you know that we haven't done this - ever.
he means that when a unit comes on the market you support it like 2-3 years.
I can easily name the Zen Studio, it came out in 2014 (ok Sam 3 years) bit latest driver is from 2017 for Mac. The recommanded macOS is Sierra, which is ok if you don’t use internet because there are not comming any security updates from Apple. Yes i know there is an update the Zen Studio+ and yes i got my Zen Studio in 2015 and in 2016 the + came out. But it is not my Problem that Antelope makes new devices every 2 years if you don’t communicate that! I find it really normal if Antelope keeps the support up for this device at least until 2020 or you have to state that you only support it for 3 years! I understand that usb only devices are faded out but please 3 years after launch you stop the development of drivers and only keep on updating the TB devices?!? Weird like written here iveer and over again, other companies are making updates for a mich longer time, RME came out with new macOS drivers for their early 2000 firewire devices! And a firewire800 in 2006 was around €1700 here. This is really my biggest complain that you stopped the driver support for the USB only devices after you came with an updated tb version and i don’t care about that if it was communicated before buying (but you did not because nobody would buy it) but Antelope could make an easy offer that you could upgrade for a smaller price.
No... just stop the support because nobody cares.
So please wake up and take longer support for your usb devices and this Zen Studio is really unique! I want a + unit of it but i don’t know if it will be supported for a long time and if i can find a dealer which still has it it will cost €2250,- for a unit that maybe looses driver support this or next year. That is too expensive! I have a Orion Studio in my homestudio but i do a lot of location recordings in churches and concerthalls and the Zen is ideal! 20 channels same converters! And very compact 1he for a audient 8pre’s and a unit that is in my back with my computer, the Zen Studio.

One side note about Orion Studio SC it has 32channels of AFX but you have only 16 instances of basic plugins as eq, compressors gate etc all the vintage plugins are 2-8 instances so it clames to have 32AFX channels but be aware that (not made clear by Antelope) the use of plugins is very small. So they advertise that you can easilly use 256 plugins on the unit but i think there are not enough plugins to get that number...

Last edited by ajschot; 17th February 2020 at 01:30 AM..
Old 18th February 2020
  #192
Here for the gear
 

Update Warning: Bundle Version 1.1.3 for Orion Studio 2017 -> obsolete now

The update includes a new version of the panel and a firmware update.

After updating you cannot use your external AFX presets in the panel any more. Even if you store a new preset it cannot be reloaded.

Neither via the load button on the AFX tab (it never worked properly there), nor with the session load. They absolutely broke it now !!!

Loading an external preset takes about 1 minute (fast iMac). Then a restart of the Mac and the Orion 2017 is required to continue because the panel is absolutely dead.

Where did they find their highly qualified developers, who can't even save and load a preset file properly ... after the device has been on the market for more than 2 years. There are 2 ways to program such a crap. Save crap, load crap, both or just don't know the preset structure and have no idea what you're doing.

Routing, mixers, input presets still work.

Ticket -> Antelope
Old 19th February 2020
  #193
Company Rep
 
Sam Antelope Audio's Avatar
 

@ ajschot - Hi! This was an honest mistake on our side, we haven't updated the product page, just the downloads page in the support section of the website. We officially support the Zen Studio with Mojave and works on Catalina as well with a small workaround. So I can assure you once again that we do not leave devices behind like that, same as above stands for the Orion 32 which is from the Zen Studio era. Excuse us for the mistake, we are updating all of the product pages and double checking all OS versions that we have listed on the product pages.
@ TAudioLED - Thank you for your report, we couldn't reproduce your issue earlier yesterday, after your remote session we got ahold of it (it doesn't happen with every OS), our engineers are onto it. Please feel free to message me directly, if you have any questions.
Old 19th February 2020
  #194
Here for the gear
 

Antelope responded very quickly. The preset issue (seems to be Mac OS X only) has been fixed with bundle version 1.1.4.
Old 20th February 2020
  #195
Lives for gear
 

Kudos to Antelope for fixing this new problem in a few days

There's been more driver releases with bugs than without, and when updates are automatic it is a serious issue (even when they're not)

That's why Antelope interfaces can't be used in a commercial facility unless slaved to a reliable/rock solid interface through MADI (RME, Metric Halo..)
or HDX (we use MADI)

What is your client going to think when he's watching you wait forever for a preset to load?
That your studio is equipped with a sluggish computer?
This client is certainly not going to spread the good word if he's seen the engineer battling all day with the interface/computer.
Let's hope that this quick fix prefigure a better future for Antelope...and even better, that drivers get released bug free ... someday.
And that when bugs arise they get dealt with transparency instead of denying.
Other manufacturers do it, I'm certain Antelope can do it too if they change their priorities.
Fixing / supporting the products they have should be a priority, before introducing new products every few months.
The rhythm interfaces are discarded and replaced is insane with this manufacturer.
Interfaces don't need to be replaced every year or two. Conversion quality at this level did not get really better for the last 15 years...Better conversion every two years is just pure marketing BS.
Incredible albums (sound wise) were recorded 20 years ago, and if you take the example of Mytek or Lynx, Prism their converters were top of the crop 15 years...still are today : I would not hesitate recording an album with Aurora mkI and 8X192's design has not changed since.
Back to Antelope :
Where are the driver/launcher updates for products older than 3 years? (last update more than 3 years ago)
When will all the known bugs get fixed and interfaces be compatible with latest OS without "workarounds"?
Manufacturers like Antelope, Avid etc. need to realise that professionals and hobbyists are becoming more and more concerned with obsolescence.
Old 21st February 2020
  #196
Company Rep
 
Sam Antelope Audio's Avatar
 

@ Nick Tammer - Firstly, the issue mentioned above was not a driver problem, it did not stop the workflow with the interface. I strongly hope that in this day and age everyone knows that there is no bug-free software, it just doesn't exist, however making sure that there is close to none bugs is of course possible and we do our best to do so, as I said - the issue mentioned above couldn't be recreated by our QA team, but once we got this one report from @ TAudioLED - our engineers could fix it right away.

Our updates are optional and most commercial studios as you mentioned never update or close once a year, to get all their gear updated in order to prevent any issues occuring, OS versions, DAW versions and all other hardware/software.

I am just one person, so I can be completely wrong here - but I believe that we are very transparent, we do not hide if there is an issue and we try to communicate it. I would love to know why you have such an impression.

Latest launchers and drivers for the older devices are available on the support page. For the Zen Studio, the Catalina workaround is for opening the control panel for the first time only, that literally takes 30 seconds to do (deleting the Antelope Launcher), which I do not believe is a major issue as it works just fine after the initial download and first start.

Can you let me know what known bugs are currently making our discontinued devices unstable or unusable, since we have no such reports from our users?

Thank you,
Sam
Old 22nd February 2020
  #197
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Antelope Audio View Post
@ Nick Tammer - Firstly, the issue mentioned above was not a driver problem, it did not stop the workflow with the interface
Driver/Software... whatever you want to call it
Quote:
I strongly hope that in this day and age everyone knows that there is no bug-free software, it just doesn't exist
At work, a RME HDSP MADI unit along with totalmix has given us a zero bugs, 100% reliable experience to it since we've had it.
In my personal room there, I have a Metric Halo 2882 which also gave me about eight years of completely trouble free experience.
In another room where I freelance the two Lynx Aurora 16 units also gave us more than a decade of reliable / zero bug recording/mixing

In Antelope world... bug-free software clearly doesn't exist, you're right.
Old 26th February 2020
  #198
Company Rep
 
Sam Antelope Audio's Avatar
 

@ Nick Tammer - Could you please let me know what issues you experienced with our products?

I do not think it's okay for me to enter into a product comparison discussion, but comparing a PCI card with digital I/O or a single purpose converter with far less software to a multi-purpose interface with a lot of software and connectivity options, not to forget 4 different drivers - in my opinion is comparing apples to oranges.

However, I would love to hear what issues you experienced, so I could either help you with solving them if you still have them, or provide this feedback to our team.
Old 26th February 2020
  #199
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Antelope Audio View Post
@ ajschot - Hi! This was an honest mistake on our side, we haven't updated the product page, just the downloads page in the support section of the website. We officially support the Zen Studio with Mojave and works on Catalina as well with a small workaround. So I can assure you once again that we do not leave devices behind like that, same as above stands for the Orion 32 which is from the Zen Studio era. Excuse us for the mistake, we are updating all of the product pages and double checking all OS versions that we have listed on the product pages.
Thanks, i know it worked i already posted that some time ago. Only thing is that a weird pan error. On newer devices you can select the pan amount, not on the Zen i think it is lineair made like 4,5db per step but this is really too much. When i do a pan of 1 it is almost sounding left only. Saw you have a great deal on older devices! I would love to use that but i am thinking How long those wil be supported.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #200
@ Sam Antelope Audio : so when can we expect the control panel update that finally removes the annoying animations and is compatible with the launcher settings?

Last edited by rmri; 3 weeks ago at 11:46 AM..
Old 3 weeks ago
  #201
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmri View Post
@ Sam Antelope Audio : so when can we expect the control panel update that finally removes the annoying animations and is compatible with the launcher settings?
I think never they not are putting any effort in Zen Studio anymore.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #202
Company Rep
 
Sam Antelope Audio's Avatar
 

@ rmri - as you know the control panel supporting this feature was released a few weeks ago, yesterday we released a new launcher update (it took more testing a bit more testing than usual) and it fixes the setting issue that you experienced.
@ ajschot - He is referring to the Orion Studio Rev. 2017.

If you have any other questions - please get back to me.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Antelope Audio View Post
@ rmri - as you know the control panel supporting this feature was released a few weeks ago, yesterday we released a new launcher update (it took more testing a bit more testing than usual) and it fixes the setting issue that you experienced.
@ ajschot - He is referring to the Orion Studio Rev. 2017.

If you have any other questions - please get back to me.

I got the update sorted by manually installing it.

Couple of things:

- I had set everything to auto-update, it did not do that, it's quite confusing.

- There was no way of seeing if an update is available. Support tells me if an update is available then the checkbox will be active on the list. No text, no alert no nothing, just a checkbox going from inactive to active. I think this is very bad UX.


Overall happy with the fixes, but frustrated with the consistently bad UX coming from Antelope.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #204
Gear Head
 

Dear all,

I have this unit (Orion Studio Synergy Core) for some while now (3 months).
I love the sound but this is not changed when you look at rev2017.

The direct line input is nice, it does work but i can not say it is worth the money.
Next update Tb3, while the first Orion never took advantage of the Tb1 speeds, 32 i/o’s while it is technically possible to get 510i/o’s on Thunderbolt 1, this unit has TB3 and off course no more tb i/o’s are made available it is no update.
Still usb2 with 24 i/o so no update, which is really a lauch... (within 2 years a rev2021 with usb3 mind my words)

FX wise... also here no update .... more a downgrade, where you get almost all fx’s with 207 version you have to buy most plugins for SC version.
Difference is that SC has 32 AFX channels and 2017 has 16, but to fill that amount you really have to buy extra fx’s.
There are some new fx’s for this unit because it’s dsp power. AutoTune for instance... well .... keep using the native one... this has latency (measured 340 samples) and it is weird artifacts and pops when using instrument and chromatic scale. So €250,- for a hyped AutoTune.... waiste of money! Also AFX2DAW does not work well, mono channels are getting weird sterreo phased signals back. When submitting a ticket the ticket got closed after 3 days without any reason. While these last two points are fixable in a firmware upgrade it could be that over time this will be fixed.

Conclusion
while this is a great unit and the sound is very good it sounds way better then my RME babyface Pro FS and UFX (at a studio were i work), if you have the silver or 2017 unit, don’t upgrade, it is really not worth it. While for the 2015 version this could be an upgrade but i suggest getting the rev.2017 because it is more bang for every bug

There are a lot of things i really love about Antelope, like the most easy way of routing, the good sounding effects (besides autoTune) the looks of the units, they still keep loosing on support and computer i/o.
Why not double all thunderbolt i/o’s on all units? I mean with a Goliath if you want to track 64 madi and 32 analogue inputs in it is only possible with protools hd via hdx with Goliath gen3?!? Why not via Thunderbolt? Also i like to record with and whitout fx i made myself clear several times that with classical music it would be great to have this possibility but no... you need to buy more units and link them but... they only put 1 tb port on the unit so daisy chaining is limited. If they just went a little bit further all these units would be great and the best there is, but now it sits in between every body. Sound as one of the best, support of one of the worst, i/o like most companies in this price range. So not so special anymore....

So for the sound try to get a Rev.2017 it sounds the same as the Synergy Core and sounding better then most competitors. AFx2Daw is not stable, don’t buy and use a insert plugin from your daw. The Control Panel seems to be stable, have not had any issues accept that when you reload a preset of the unit the names of the inputs are sometimes back to default. Double clicking on one and all the names are back. Seems to be an easy bug to fix, however it is in the control panel of both 2015 and 2017 versions too and for a while now.
Support of Antelope is ok, not great, but when big problems occour (i had with 2015 version) they do their best. but small bugs are bad fixed and when reported in a ticket get somtimes closed and never looked at. Is this a big thing, well if the support is good when running into big problems i don’t find this a big deal ( but it os still a deal!), but that is in everyone’s own opinion.

Am i happy with my purchase? Well.... i needed an extra unit, so why not buy the newest then. I got a good deal with my Antelope dealer but still i think i had better bought an extra rev.2017 since they are easy to get for half the price and much more fx! And sounding the same... only how long will their be driver updates?
Like i wrote their are still minor bugs in teh 2015 version even in the old Zen Studio...
Also i hoped it was possible to use offline bouncing, but since the dsp helps the foga’s and there is audio going over the tb and not data it is only possible to use inline bouncing, which is taking a lot of time with classical music

Last edited by ajschot; 1 week ago at 08:00 AM..
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