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Orion Studio Synergy Core - A Signature Audio Interface with DSP & FPGA Fusio
Old 6 days ago
  #121
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Tammer View Post

Brands like RME and Metric Halo still writing/releasing new software and supporting interfaces from 2003(RME) and 2001(MH)
and in the case of Metric Halo even release Hardware updates in 2008 (2D) and 2018 (3D)
Small correction:

The RME Digiface was released in 2001 and is supported by current drivers:

https://archiv.rme-audio.de/en/news_list_of_records.php

My unit is still solid as a rock.
Old 6 days ago
  #122
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax View Post
To be fair the video was more presented along the lines of "we were given the challenge of doing a recording/mix with this interface".

Nowhere does it give the impression to me that the producer/engineer is going to sell and replace all his outboard to go with a synergy. It's more about this trusted person who knows what they're talking gives the orion synergy two thumbs up.

In any case, it's quite obviously an endorsed promotional video, nothing shocking there.

I did learn some interesting features about the interface which is always useful but make no mistake I am as critical as anyone concerning the pitfalls of the software and antelope in general.

that said, your continuous vehement bashing of the company does make you sound like you have a personal grudge against them. perhaps that sad anecdote about the aardvark interface crapping out on you during that dream session some 20 years ago?

I feel for you and I'm even thankful that you shed some light on what sounds like piss poor practices but a little objectivity wouldn't necessarily hurt either which is why I'm also curious to get feedback from actual orion synergy core users.

As for no antelope products inside pro studios, I'm not sure that's a valid statement as I know at least an antelope clock device was listed by ME legend Mick Guzauski on possibly the highest budget recording project of the century:

"The recording signals were split and then sent to both tape and Pro Tools. The analogue side of the recording was a Studer A827 running 24-track ATR tape at 15ips, with +3 alignment and Dolby SR, because we didn't want to have hiss. SR came in during the late '80s, and it suppresses the really high transients a little bit, but it also fattens the bottom end, which were the characteristics that we wanted. The digital went via Lynx Aurora A-D converters, which Guy-Man and Thomas liked, and I was fine with that because they sound great. We also used an Antelope digital clock. The analogue tape was striped with SMPTE, so it could run in sync with Pro Tools, and after the recordings we'd transferred the tape material back into the same session in Pro Tools, so we ended up with two identical versions of the same material in each session."

https://www.soundonsound.com/people/...ries-daft-punk

Not converters per se of course but from what I understand Antelopes class-leading clocking does help in the chain.

I also haven't heard anyone talk bad about Antelope converters, quite the contrary actually. Seems like the software and driver stability are the main culprits concerning their interfaces which isn't anything to neglect either.
- To moderators : I mistakenly clicked 'report' instead of 'quote' I never wanted to report this comment -

The Q10 crapping on me on a session 15 years ago (it was 2004 I think) is not the problem
("sad" it was not ..the band and I had lots of fun despite technical problems and that song recorded in the middle of the night through an Mbox is a beauty)
The problem is the company vanishing at the time without any statement like "we closed shop sorry guys" leaving users waiting for possible new drivers for a couple of years (the website was still up but no announcement)
And then Antelope refusing to release the drivers source code for Aardvark boxes (that were only a few years old) to allow "abandoned" users to use the gear they just bought (Q10 were still in shops till 2006 I think)
The problem is companies that gives poor support, unfinished software.
Companies that think that 4 or 5 years of bad support for $1500 boxes is enough and that they can stop releasing new drivers for it.
I think informing people about these practices is useful.
Telling people that other manufacturers who have opposite practices exist, is also useful.
People are still free to buy/use whatever they want...but at least they know.
Beside after the Aardvark story I gave them a second chance with the Zen. didn't last long
All I hope for Antelope (and its users) is that they wake up, get their act together and change these practices.

I never said you can't find Antelope products inside pro studios, I said this : I worked freelance in many different studios in recent years, both as a musician and a producer (about 50+ places between Brussels Paris and London..and also Montreal) and I haven't seen any.
I am aware that 50 studios is not a huge number in terms of stats, but it gives you an idea.

Unlike you I think the video was made to give the impression that Dani... uses the Orion on location on regular basis and plugs the mics directly through its pres.
Being aware that she is a seasoned engineer with easy access to pro gear (she even worked on Noel Gallagher's last album)
allow me to doubt that very much.
Not saying she didn't...I'm saying I don't know any serious producer who would not bring a few nice preamps for a session on location.
The story that she's "looking forward to use it" like her only 1U 'answers-it-all' system on regular basis for location work ... I have a hard time buying it.
The interface sounds fine for the money..My advice is to take these testimonials with a gain of salt.
Old 6 days ago
  #123
Lives for gear
 
Squawk's Avatar
My Goliath HD first gen is now listed as a "legacy" device. I really hope that doesn't mean they will drop driver support for it.

Looking at my records, my first contact with Antelope was 22 January, 2017 (shortly after purchase), regarding major Goliath AES/EBU issues. These were finally resolved in Sept. 2018, after much back and forth, months of testing and documenting, with 5 different units in total going through the paces at my studio. (This includes me upgrading to a Goliath HD during this period when they were first launched, hoping it would be better.) Thanks to Andrew at Antelope for being the point guy who finally got things happening there.

My Goliath HD has been working (mostly) fine since then, but that's Less than 2 years of having a functioning working unit, with what is now considered a "legacy" product.

Prior to that, I'd consider it as being in beta, since this was how they finally got it resolved (from Antelope):

"In regards to the improvements, I think that the (AES/EBU) protocol was re-written by our R&D completely."

So, with new Mac Pro's coming out, I'm hoping to at least get a few more years out of my investment moving forward. I guess I'll have to wait and see how that goes.

Last edited by Squawk; 6 days ago at 01:52 AM..
Old 6 days ago
  #124
Gear Maniac
 

About Legacy products 'Sam ante' answering 'Tom Allon' one week ago :

"we cannot keep updating compatibility to the latest Windows and Mac OS version, although often they work with newer OS versions without us involving into software framework changes"

Taken from 'Antelope Audio Pro Users Group' on FB

So it might work for a while if you're lucky

I don't understand it should not be that hard to invest in a better team of coders to write bug free drivers and ensure compatibility for older units...No one would complain anymore.
Old 6 days ago
  #125
Lives for gear
 
Squawk's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Tammer View Post
About Legacy products 'Sam ante' answering 'Tom Allon' one week ago :

"we cannot keep updating compatibility to the latest Windows and Mac OS version, although often they work with newer OS versions without us involving into software framework changes"

Taken from 'Antelope Audio Pro Users Group' on FB

So it might work for a while if you're lucky

I don't understand it should not be that hard to invest in a better team of coders to write bug free drivers and ensure compatibility for older units...No one would complain anymore.
Well, that's been the problem. I got the impression that Antelope contracted out the software and driver developement. That may not be the case, but it certainly was the impression I was left with, which I suspect is why it took so long to finally resolve the AES/EBU issues since it required a complete rewrite.

It's much more difficult if you don't have that stuff in house like RME does.
Old 6 days ago
  #126
Gear Maniac
 

Well it's a shame because the interfaces are well designed (if it wasn't for the drivers/support problems)
It seems that Antelope really underestimate the fact that people want 100% (not 90%) working tools that last.
Other manufacturers manage to do that, with boxes that are also well designed.
Users who invest $2000 in a new interface should get more than two years of use (with drivers support and latest OS compatibility)
Old 6 days ago
  #127
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squawk View Post
Can't speak to Synergy, but with the latest Antelope Launcher update, my Goliath HD (1st Gen) is no longer recognized. I have to physically unplug the USB cable, then plug it back in each time I power it on.

You know that when there's a big "Not seeing your device?" written across the launcher window, this has to be a known problem. Their solution? Unplug the power cable of your unit, and plug it back in!

Great solution. How about fixing the software?
Sounds like your device communication is not set to USB... there is a hidden menu when pressing one of the buttons.
Old 6 days ago
  #128
Lives for gear
 
Squawk's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajschot View Post
Sounds like your device communication is not set to USB... there is a hidden menu when pressing one of the buttons.
Thanks, but it's set to USB, always has been. I don't use it with thunderbolt, just USB for the panel, and MADI for audio.

It stopped being recognized after a launcher update several weeks ago. It happens when the computer is booted up. Once the Goliath HD is recognized once, it's ok each time you open the launcher, as long as the computer hasn't been rebooted.
Old 6 days ago
  #129
Company Rep
 
Sam Antelope Audio's Avatar
 

@ Nick Tammer , @ Squawk - Yes, I did say that, for our oldest devices like the Eclipse 384. I also said that in our case, legacy, doesn't mean that we will stop supporting it, we just do not manufacture it anymore and we are manufacturing only the newer model. Again - this doesn't mean that we are leaving the devices that are not manufactured anymore, maybe the word legacy can be easily interpreted in a lot of ways and we should be more clear when using it.
Old 6 days ago
  #130
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Antelope Audio View Post
@ Nick Tammer , @ Squawk - Yes, I did say that, for our oldest devices like the Eclipse 384. I also said that in our case, legacy, doesn't mean that we will stop supporting it, we just do not manufacture it anymore and we are manufacturing only the newer model. Again - this doesn't mean that we are leaving the devices that are not manufactured anymore, maybe the word legacy can be easily interpreted in a lot of ways and we should be more clear when using it.
Hi Sam. This was in an answer to Tom Allon who was wondering if he should buy the original Orion Studio Silver (used) ....... not the Eclipse 384.
No confusion was possible as his question was illustrated with a big picture of the Orion Studio.
Nowhere in that thread was the Eclipse 384 mentioned by anyone, not even yourself.

Besides you can "support" it as much as you can,
but if the driver versions are final for legacy units and "compatibility isn't kept with the latest Windows and Mac OS version" (I'm basically quoting you here) that means it's the end of the road if you need a new mac.
Old 5 days ago
  #131
Company Rep
 
Sam Antelope Audio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Tammer View Post
Hi Sam. This was in an answer to Tom Allon who was wondering if he should buy the original Orion Studio Silver (used) ....... not the Eclipse 384.
No confusion was possible as his question was illustrated with a big picture of the Orion Studio.
Nowhere in that thread was the Eclipse 384 mentioned by anyone, not even yourself.

Besides you can "support" it as much as you can,
but if the drivers are final for legacy units and "compatibility isn't kept with the latest Windows and Mac OS version" (I'm basically quoting you here) that means it's the end of the road if you need a new mac.
Hi Nick!

Yes, the post was about the silver Orion Studio, however I was explaining in this sentence about each and every legacy device, just because this question is posed frequently. I wanted to explain that we cannot keep updating our oldest devices, I didn't mean the silver Orion Studio, excuse me if I was not clear enough in my answer there.

We do not stop developing when we stop manufacturing a unit. Feel free to message me or ask me here anything else that might come up.
Old 5 days ago
  #132
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Antelope Audio View Post
Hi Nick!

Yes, the post was about the silver Orion Studio, however I was explaining in this sentence about each and every legacy device, just because this question is posed frequently. I wanted to explain that we cannot keep updating our oldest devices, I didn't mean the silver Orion Studio, excuse me if I was not clear enough in my answer there.

We do not stop developing when we stop manufacturing a unit. Feel free to message me or ask me here anything else that might come up.
So you're saying the launcher versions (OSX & windows) are not final for the first gen Orion Studio, first gen Goliath, new drivers/launchers will be released?
Old 5 days ago
  #133
Here for the gear
 

Hi Sam, is there any update on Windows compatibility with afx2daw? It looks intriguing and I believe a beta was done a while back?
Old 5 days ago
  #134
Gear Head
 

Well if it goes the same way of my just 4 years old Zen Studio (which i love 20 A/D!!!) then the silver Orions updates will be dead too... Zen Studio drivers has not been updated since 2017 and (3 years after release) and yes there are bugs with panning in the mixer, so there is still work... latest version of macOS that is officially suported is 10.13, which will not getting any security updates from this summer on. Ok Apple is not good but please support it all other companies does it. It is not a €500 unit, it cost me €2599 in 2014!
If you ask this amount of money let people know you just will make drivers for 3 years, but Antelope knows... nobody will buy it. Besides that there is no other option then the Zen Studio+ which is also almost discontinued and that was relseased in 2016.
Old 5 days ago
  #135
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajschot View Post
Besides that there is no other option then the Zen Studio+ which is also almost discontinued and that was relseased in 2016.
Nope. The Zen Studio+ is already a legacy product, and it was released in..wait for it..........2017!

Antelope Debuts new Zen Studio Plus w/Thunderbolt & FX

https://en.antelopeaudio.com/legacy-devices/

So no more updates, no more driver support (launcher/drivers/firmware) for the Zen Studio+ 2 years after its release.
Old 5 days ago
  #136
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjj View Post
Nope. The Zen Studio+ is already a legacy product, and it was released in..wait for it..........2017!

Antelope Debuts new Zen Studio Plus w/Thunderbolt & FX
https://en.antelopeaudio.com/legacy-devices/

So no more updates, no more driver support (launcher/drivers/firmware) for the Zen Studio+ 2 years after its release.
Some hope... it not says discontinnued but that will come this comming year. How for a unit that price? I understand that Antelope Audio needs to earn money but in this way they will loose all there costumers. I can’t understand that they don’t want to see this... i love my Zen Studio but i can’t advise anybody Antrlope Audio anymore because there short driver support!

I think i will switch to Metric Halo comming year, their system looks great, expandeable to 128 channels and no need to connect it via adat or so just connect withmh libk and add in cards makes it future proof. Not every 2 years buying new stuff like you need with Antelope

Last edited by ajschot; 5 days ago at 10:56 AM..
Old 3 days ago
  #137
Gear Head
Hey, I’m running an Orion 32 hd with a native Protools card on mac. Anyone tried the Discrete 8 yet in conjunction with the Orion. Just wondering how it will work as i already have 16 channels of mic pres and all the i/o being clocked by the Orion going thunderbolt. Wondering how I would interface with the Discrete? If i use the clock and conversion on my Orion do I lose any of the features of the Synergy core. like can i use the fpga fx while tracking if i’m usint the analog out on the discrete? Can i use the afx to daw if i’m running my session using the clock on the Orion? Maybe someone from Antelope can chime in.
Old 16 hours ago
  #138
After reading all these posts, I'm more confused than ever.
I started (transitioning from hardware) with the M-Audio Firewire 2626, which I thought sounded great. I had three of them (mistakenly bought a third, but found I couldn't use three at 96k). At one point, one of them bricked (later a second). I called support and I was informed that, since Avid now owned M-Audio, and this was pre-Avid acquisition, my units were no longer supported. I was livid.
I then went to Presonus (at the time, ok, but I knew there had to be something better) and then to Focusrite (Liquid Saphire 56 and Octopre). I still wasn't satisfied with the sound. I had heard that Antelope made amazing sounding gear. I did some research and bought the original silver Orion Studio (new, cutting edge, at the time)...and a DP88 in Orion's ADAT for drums. I was on Windows 7 64 bit, so...no TB for me. The hype was right. The differences between the Orion Studio and my other interfaces, sound-wise, were night and day. Interface took a bit of getting used to. I had problems, here and there, but support was helpful and got things sorted out. I still have it and it still sounds great. I had an issue, after an update, and called support. I was told to upgrade to Windows 10 or I would have major problems going forward. I did. Now I'm having that thing where, when opening the launcher, it says no device found...a few seconds later, a new window comes up with my device. I freaked when it first happened, but I guess it's not a big deal.
So now...
I'm having an asus Thunderbolt3ex card installed in my computer (everything is being transferred to a larger case, a new graphics card and the TB3 card added...hoping it will work), so I can upgrade to TB3. Was looking at UAD Apollo x 8p, but I'd be loosing I/Os. Now I see this Orion Studio Synergy Core...but no Windows TB3 support?!!!
I use AA, UAD, Plugin Alliance, Softube, Slate and Kush pligins, for the most part, so, (in the past) the Antelope plugins were not a big draw for me, but now, the idea of using two high count units and have the ability to add mic pres to the drum mics...this appeals to me. I have lots of pres...but never enough...and I'd like to have the abity to change and try different pres for different sessions.
Haven't heard the new Apollos, so I don't know what they sound like, and I'd be losing four inputs, compared to Orion. Now, I read all this negative stuff about Antelope...and I have to admit that I wasn't thrilled when the 2017 Orion came out, so soon after I bought the original, and there was no upgrade path for me. It seemed to come out fairly fast, after the original. And now no reliable TB3 for Windows on the new unit. Is that right or did I misread something? I'd really like to go TB3, I like the I/O count and sound quality of Antelope. Really not sure which way to go...and this is relying that my new TB3 card will actually work. Any suggestions form anyone that has experience with either of these units? Was I wrong about there not being TB3 for Windows?

Last edited by rubytopaz; 16 hours ago at 06:44 PM.. Reason: Spelling
Old 11 hours ago
  #139
Here for the gear
 

What a thread!!
Products thrown on the "legacy" pile just 2 years after their release, no driver updates after that... (!)
Who wants to fork 2800€ for only two years of driver support and some buggy software?
Old 8 hours ago
  #140
OK1
Gear Nut
Sorry to have to repeat the obvious.

There are two key ways to invest in audio gear.

1. Integrated Units - All in ones.

a) You seem to save a bit of money by getting a lot for your buck initially.

b) But whenever the device becomes obsolete, you lose money cos its an integrated unit, so you have to either sell it as a unit, or lose money on the entire investment.

c) Relies far too much on the manufacturer being a jack of all trades - who makes good preamp, converters, etc for a reasonable price - pretty difficult and rare tasks, especially when you expect them to also write excellent low latency drivers for all operating systems, now and in the future.

2. Separates

a) The initial acquisition cost and having to put it all together may seem very expensive, and lots of cables between the devices.

In the good old days, an audio interface was exactly that - simply a converter from analog to digital or an input from digital audio into a computer with minimal conversion duties, and you had to get a separate mic preamp, or external DA/AD, EQ, Compressors etc. All separates..

b) But in this case the only thing that ever gets obsolete is the computer audio interface. Mic pre's, EQ, compressors never lose their value...and the only cost lost is the audio interface.


What I see in this thread is a whole lot of folks who, regrettably chose option 1 and are now complaining.

History teaches us that the very best meaning audio business, especially the ones who provide great ALL in ONE gear, with slim profit margins (and great prices for us) like EMU and Echo Audio, leave that business - Sadly.

The separates approach allows us to choose best of breed, from the strengths of each manufacturer.

Audio Interface(PCIe, USB, Firewire or Thunderbolt) - RME - stable, well supported, on Mac and Windows.

Converters - Probably Antelope but there are so many others, you choose..

Mic Pre-'s - you decide what you like as your preferred boutique front end, with or without DI capability., and how many of these you need, or decide which clean pres you need as either a separate unit or part of the audio interface.

Processing - Compressors, etc.. Can't figure out why I have to pay again to Antelope, UAD, or whomever else claims their plugin emulation accelerated in hardware is better. By buying such DSP integrated into an All in ONE Unit, which once it becomes obsolete, I lose this DSP functionality.

For processing you decide what do you want :

Native - plugins

OR

DSP - the only authentic choice for separates is UAD DSP (USB or Thunderbolt) standalone units without any micr pre's, or converters, or Avid HDX..., which will not tie you down to an all in one solution that gets discarded, with each change of audio interface.

On these threads I see people run into this same issue going from one all in one to another , when the real solution is to change approach, and think long term, initially more expensive yes but over a long term, actually more cost effective.

I can understand those who need portability, but such needs can accommodate a trade off, and must accommodate the lower ROI of a mobile device, which most likely has a shorter useful lifespan, before something better replaces it. e.g RME Babyface, Babyface Pro and now Babyface PRo FS, where you replace a whole device to simply get better Mic Pre's and/or converters.

It is just life, impossible to have it all - eat your cake and have it.

You want the ultimate in flexibility and future proofing, it costs more and is not likely to be the most portable. Then you choose standards that are unlikely to be replaced anytime soon.

XLR, TRS, 48 V Phantom Power, MIDI, ADAT, SPDIF, USB, PCIe, MADI, AES/EBU.

Unless you absolutely need portability, what's the point of Thunderbolt 3 on a Windows computer, when you can easily have PCIe based audio that will be trouble free, and has been in use for about 20 years reliably/well known tried and extremely well tested.

As the new Mac Pro demonstrates, PCie is going nowhere, it is here to stay for quite a long time, in spite of the existence of Thunderbolt 3.

And in another 4 years Thunderbolt 3 will be replaced/incorporated into USB 4.0. So there really has to be a valid compulsory reason for a Thunderbolt audio interface on Windows, seriously why bother., when for most purposes, there is very little advantage over USB 3.1., and any advantage is only valid for portable devices like laptops. On a desktop you already have PCIe 3.0, in-built, which replaces any need for Thunderbolt 3, with - nothing extra to pay, just choose the right desktop with enough slots...for your needs.

Nevertheless, I think there is a half way house, for those who need portability as a priority, which is as follows.

Get the current RME Babyface device(which can be 100% USB bus powered - albeit with compromises on the audio levels), and pair this with an 8 channel ADAT pre of your choosing should you need more channels. Or with any two channel boutique D/A and/or A/D....

For native processing - just get a really good current Intel processor and liver happily ever after for the next 5 to 10 years.... something like an i9-9900K, the processor itself costs about $500 and will run circles around any UAD DSP, which costs a lot more.

The argument for DSP processing, which was fundamentally one of low latency processing during tracking, is no longer valid, when you can now get reliable round trip audio as low as 5 milliseconds @ 44.1, which gets lower at higher sampling frequencies, , with modern USB and Thunderbolt audio interfaces, as well as PCIe interfaces. Especially when so many use VST instruments, which benefit in no way, latency wise, from external DSP such as UAD. Actually truth be told, UAD DSP can actually increase the latency of live playback of VST instruments....
Old 7 hours ago
  #141
Well, so much for that...the TB3 card, that I told the tech wouldn't work because my motherboard didn't have a TB header (although he assured me it would and printed out the page with the card he said I should buy), won't work. Why? Get this...because my motherboard doesn't have a TB header. Hmmm...where have I heard that before? Oh yeah...me, when I told him that. No TB3 interface for me; UAD or Antelope. I guess I'm staying with my original silver Orion Studio. I would like more inputs. Right now I have 22 (12 with Orion, 8 with DP88 through ADAT and two through s/pdif)
A high I/O USB 3.0 interface would be nice. Goliath HD?

Last edited by rubytopaz; 7 hours ago at 04:06 AM.. Reason: Forgot to add something
Old 7 hours ago
  #142
Here for the gear
 

I've been hitting my head with a hammer ...
Now what..a sledgehammer?
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