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Relab SONSIG Rev A (Algorithmic Reverb)
Old 27th August 2019
  #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeka View Post
I just did a quick test and it seems Sonsig uses roughly 2/3 the cpu that VSR24 does. So a bit better cpu-wise but not exactly light. This is in LPX latest version @128 buffer using Mojave.

Sonsig does small spaces well.

Excellent verb.
Agreed, this reverb is indeed very heavy on CPU load. Relab friends, is there any way to optimise this further?
Old 27th August 2019
  #332
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeka View Post
I just did a quick test and it seems Sonsig uses roughly 2/3 the cpu that VSR24 does. So a bit better cpu-wise but not exactly light. This is in LPX latest version @128 buffer using Mojave.

Sonsig does small spaces well.

Excellent verb.
Thanks, good info.

I went on and bought it several hours ago, but I'm still waiting on my license info. Odd that it is not fairly immediate like, well, most every other developer.
Old 27th August 2019
  #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robshrock View Post
Thanks, good info.

I went on and bought it several hours ago, but I'm still waiting on my license info. Odd that it is not fairly immediate like, well, most every other developer.
Yeah, but you'll have it within the day. I assume there's some manual intervention required by the Relab crew.
Old 27th August 2019
  #334
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robert82's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fgimian View Post
Yeah, but you'll have it within the day. I assume there's some manual intervention required by the Relab crew.
There's like, two guys, and I think they do a marvelous job!
And to whoever asked if Relab could maybe optimise the CPU usage? You should be so grateful for what you get with their algos. I would seriously consider upgrading my PC in order to use their plugins, if I needed to. You are getting 99% of the sound of hardware units that once cost more than a new car.
Old 28th August 2019
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
And to whoever asked if Relab could maybe optimise the CPU usage? You should be so grateful for what you get with their algos. I would seriously consider upgrading my PC in order to use their plugins, if I needed to. You are getting 99% of the sound of hardware units that once cost more than a new car.
There's no harm in making an observation and asking if further optimisation could take place. No one actually mentioned that they couldn't run the plugin due to CPU restrictions, we just said that it takes a lot more CPU than many other Relab reverbs (which ultimately means we can't run as many in a heavy session).

We are all Relab customers and fans here, there's no need to go on the defensive when any form of critique is raised, particularly when both mikeka and I were both respectful when making this observation.
Old 28th August 2019
  #336
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I think I made a mistake buying this. I spent a lot of time with this now and while it sounds good on its own I can't seem to get it sound right in the mix. It's either too much mud or something is missing.
Old 28th August 2019
  #337
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elambo's Avatar
I've not noticed any serious load on the CPU with Sonsig, though I've not looked carefully. I know that I can add several instances to a common session and have plenty of power to spare.
Old 28th August 2019
  #338
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Using Sonsing here and no big cpu load, sounds wonderful and no problem getting it sit right in the mix!
Old 28th August 2019
  #339
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Did a lot more work on my little tune and have rendered a version Dry (i.e. without any Sonsig) and the regular version.
Attached Files

Sophie's Song 5.mp3 (8.75 MB, 1924 views)

Sophie's Song 5 Dry.mp3 (8.75 MB, 1886 views)

Old 30th August 2019
  #340
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SteveWZ's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxMulderFBI View Post
Using Sonsing here and no big cpu load, sounds wonderful and no problem getting it sit right in the mix!
Yea, that's also my experience.
It may have been coded to use some of the new features available in more current CPUs.

That could explain some of the reports of high CPU.
Old 30th August 2019
  #341
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Any chance for the old black 224?

Dear Relab team,

Since UAD folks got their 224 on dsp card - any chance you´d do the old non XL box for us mere native pc plugin folks? I mean THE loooong dark Vangelis reverb needs to be saved for generations to come - doesn´t it?

I just demoed your sonsig revA and it indeed sounds very good. Then I compared sonsig´s 224 setting to my old beloved 224, which of course is a bit noisy by nowadays DAW standards. While I couldn´t match sonsig to my favourite 22 secs ambient reverb, some of the 224 DNA is there. Early reflections are different, not as pronounced or 3d/spacey/spreaded, also frequency spectrum is different which so couldn´t completely be matched to the 224, which obviously isn´t the sole purpose of sonsig as it´s something new in itself and it sounds very good/lush/expensive on its own.

That said - a native 224 - are you maybe already working on it? I´ve read somewhere that Dr. David Griesinger had been interviewed about the UAD224 and if he´d been asked to be involved with it. Surprisingly he hadn´t actually been asked at all by UA but also seemingly didn´t care about it. I think I´ve also read that he said that whatever UAD had programmed to be a 224 - it possibly couldn´t sound the same as his old algorithms as they are lost apart from his personal notes. I seem to remember that he said something about a very very special modulation algorithm for the now renowned concert hall algorithm and that only he himself would know how it would work. So whatever UA did, it can´t sound like an original 224.

Just as an idea, maybe Mr. Griesinger would like to contribute with his expertise on a native 224 project if you´d ask him, as it was his invention, built in his garage in the late 70s. An absolutely fascinating story... and of course you´ll know all that.

In case you need people with access to a 224/224X to compare a possible plugin to - I have both. The X is dead for now, though, I need to repair the psu. Judging by sound I always prefer the 224, not the X. X is way brighter, analog output board filtering sounds different. The old 224 has something very dark, organic in its sound, almost an analogue quality like a bbd delay, which technically, of course, is nonsense

I know I´m not the only one dreaming about a spot on black 224 as a native plugin. But only if it´d be based on original algorithms and the original modulation. Maybe this can happen - who knows

Even better, make it hardware, the original white remote housing the needed computer power with a pair of XLR I/O, now that´d be totally awesome!

In any case, thanks for reading.

Correction:
224 and 224X in the rack (white and blue metal remotes)
No 224XL

Last edited by el-folie; 31st August 2019 at 02:37 AM..
Old 31st August 2019
  #342
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Completed my tune which heavily uses Sonsig. I broke the rules on this tune and used the reverb as inserts everywhere (primarily because this was originally a tutorial for someone else which I had never thought I'd finish so I didn't setup my sends at the start as I usually do). So there's around 20 Sonsigs here all doing something a little different.

https://sonicelement.bandcamp.com/album/relentless-hope

I used many short reverbs on the percussion and many longer verbs on the melodic parts and effects.

In use, I found the plugin to be so easy to get the result I wanted. I also love how bright it can get (very crispy when Brightness is all the way up). It seemed equally capable at short and long reverb tails, there was never anything metallic going on with short verbs either which was great.

As to my point about CPU, it wasn't an issue in practice on this massive project, but it did measure higher in usage in both Ableton and Cubase against my other reverbs. Luckily, this didn't cause me any drama in the end.
Old 31st August 2019
  #343
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robert82's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fgimian View Post
So there's around 20 Sonsigs here all doing something a little different.

https://sonicelement.bandcamp.com/album/relentless-hope

I used many short reverbs on the percussion and many longer verbs on the melodic parts and effects.
It sounds first rate, because you obviously know what you're doing! If I used 20 inserts of reverb, it would sound like a giant mess. Nice work.
Old 31st August 2019
  #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
It sounds first rate, because you obviously know what you're doing! If I used 20 inserts of reverb, it would sound like a giant mess. Nice work.
Hahaha, thanks heaps!
Old 31st August 2019
  #345
Last day of intro price, just bought it after demoing it while mixing a record. It really does add something nice and deep soundstage wise.
Old 31st August 2019
  #346
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Warp69's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by el-folie View Post
Since UAD folks got their 224 on dsp card - any chance you´d do the old non XL box for us mere native pc plugin folks? I mean THE loooong dark Vangelis reverb needs to be saved for generations to come - doesn´t it?
It definitely does.

If we do something like that, it would be the 224XL we would start with, but both are VERY large projects. The 224XL has 14 different reverb algorithms - it's like releasing 14 plugins

Quote:
Originally Posted by el-folie View Post
I´ve read somewhere that Dr. David Griesinger had been interviewed about the UAD224 and if he´d been asked to be involved with it. Surprisingly he hadn´t actually been asked at all by UA but also seemingly didn´t care about it.
I simply doesn't care about the plugin market. He's doing much larger reverb systems today.

Thank you for your offer - very appreciated. I have 2 * 224 and a 224XL.
Old 31st August 2019
  #347
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp69 View Post
It definitely does.

If we do something like that, it would be the 224XL we would start with, but both are VERY large projects. The 224XL has 14 different reverb algorithms - it's like releasing 14 plugins
I take your answer not as a complete 'No' then, so there´s hope

Maybe a good start as a single release would be just the concert hall algorithm with its original modulation and sub options like "shift-depth/decay enhancement/diffusion/mod depth".

If I have it correctly the algorithm is the same on 224 and 224X? The X just used more memory and higher frequency response output filtering. About the XL I´m not so sure as the upgrade to the LARC remote seemingly also changed bit depth(?) and analogue output filtering again for even higher frequency response? There´s the "reverb subculture" thread of course...

If that is so - a "same" concert hall algorithm in all three machines - a possible XL plugin maybe could include different methods of input/output filtering and code calculation via a switch for 224 STD/X/XL mode, just like Sonsig with QRS/224XL/Sonsig.

Of course the transformers play a role, too, as does the noise on the 224STD. I´ve also read that the old calculation methods generate some random noise in the reverb tail that seems to be perceived as aurally very pleasing, quite fascinating.

Honestly, any take on the beloved concert hall algorithm executed by your sky high standards would be very very appreciated. I´d buy it!
Old 31st August 2019
  #348
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Warp69's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by el-folie View Post
If I have it correctly the algorithm is the same on 224 and 224X?
If only that was the case. The 224X and 224XL has the same algorithms. There're differences between 224 and 224X(L) on a DSP level too.
Old 31st August 2019
  #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp69 View Post
If only that was the case. The 224X and 224XL has the same algorithms. There're differences between 224 and 224X(L) on a DSP level too.
Oh my

So it becomes clear that the 224STD really is some kind of sonic unicorn.

If you ever decide to code it, despite its idiosyncrasies, it´d be a dream
Old 1st September 2019
  #350
This is most definitely an exceptional reverb. Makes a number of others sound a bit silly. Purchased - thank you very much Relab.

+1000 for a 224 - even 1 algo. People would flip.

Best,
MG
Old 14th September 2019
  #351
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Mortal Engines's Avatar
 

We’re facing down the last 12 hours of the Sonsig sale. I’m also looking at UVI Sparkverb. How do they compare? We’re talking about a $10 difference in price right now
Old 14th September 2019
  #352
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elambo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortal Engines View Post
We’re facing down the last 12 hours of the Sonsig sale. I’m also looking at UVI Sparkverb. How do they compare? We’re talking about a $10 difference in price right now
Sonsig. Try the demo.
Old 15th September 2019
  #353
Gear Maniac
I am a UVI Fanboy and have Sparkverb and Sonsig, but in this case I have to say Sonsig all the way.....
Old 15th September 2019
  #354
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robert82's Avatar
So after a month with Sonsig, I still prefer another of Relab's offerings, the LX480. I'm sure it's just my general ineptitude, but I seem to get "ringy" tails in the high-mids with Sonsig whereas the LX480 is always silky smooth (and not as bright! Which could be a shortcoming for some). Also, I maintain a cultish affection for the old Lexicon sound. This is in no way a denigration of the new plug, just a statement of preference.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #355
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elambo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
So after a month with Sonsig, I still prefer another of Relab's offerings, the LX480. I'm sure it's just my general ineptitude, but I seem to get "ringy" tails in the high-mids with Sonsig whereas the LX480 is always silky smooth (and not as bright! Which could be a shortcoming for some). Also, I maintain a cultish affection for the old Lexicon sound. This is in no way a denigration of the new plug, just a statement of preference.
I don't find Sonsig to be overly bright nor ringy, though I tend to set it up so that neither would have a chance to occur.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #356
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robert82's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
I don't find Sonsig to be overly bright nor ringy, though I tend to set it up so that neither would have a chance to occur.
Is this due to using the actual EQ in Sonsig, or are you EQing your sends or compressing?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #357
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elambo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
Is this due to using the actual EQ in Sonsig, or are you EQing your sends or compressing?
Sonsig has excellent tone shaping options so I handle it there.
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