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Waves Audio Introduces the Bass Fingers Plugin
Old 23rd June 2019
  #91
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Innervisions View Post
Yep, IIRC (I didn't write that part of the sampler engine) it does some caching that speeds up future loads, mostly to help with running multiple instances of the same project.

2 minutes does sound like a very long loading time, so I'm sorry to hear about that...

From my experience, HD samples should load much faster than SD samples (with the trade off of taking much more disk space).
Sorry i am probably misunderstanding but i thought the HD samples had more articulations (15Gb vs 2Gb SD) so shouldn't they take longer to load?
Old 23rd June 2019
  #92
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Innervisions View Post
Bass Slapper and Bass fingers are two different products. Two different sample libraries. None of them isn't a 'real' product or a 'training' version for the other product, and I imagine both will be used in very different musical context or song projects.

Other than that I can't really comment about the pricing model. I can understand that if you've already paid for other related plugins by the same company you expect your previous purchases to 'count' when you make a new one and that's fair.
I keep hearing this comment.
However, no answer so far, what the Bass Slapper can do, what the Bass Fingers can't achieve.

As far as I've seen in demos, you can do slapp playing with the Bass Fingers.

Yes, they are different products: Bass Slapper is reduced version (a "Furry Cap version", so to speak) of the Bass Fingers, i. e. normally the developer offers a upgrade option to the previous version owners.
Old 23rd June 2019
  #93
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAnthony View Post
Sorry i am probably misunderstanding but i thought the HD samples had more articulations (15Gb vs 2Gb SD) so shouldn't they take longer to load?
No, both versions have the same amount of articulations/velocity layers/round robins, etc.

The SD version is just in a compressed format which reduces disk space dramatically, but has the trade off of more CPU usage, longer loading time and slightly degraded sound quality.
Old 23rd June 2019
  #94
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_O View Post
I keep hearing this comment.
However, no answer so far, what the Bass Slapper can do, what the Bass Fingers can't achieve.

As far as I've seen in demos, you can do slapp playing with the Bass Fingers.

Yes, they are different products: Bass Slapper is reduced version (a "Furry Cap version", so to speak) of the Bass Fingers, i. e. normally the developer offers a upgrade option to the previous version owners.
Bass Fingers does not have the slap samples.
Bass Slapper does not have the fingered samples.

They do not share anything except for some internal technology.

Here's your difference in a nutshell.
Old 23rd June 2019
  #95
Gear Addict
 

Bass fingers is not coming near any of my songs. Modo bass sounds like a bass.
Old 23rd June 2019
  #96
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic audio View Post
Bass fingers is not coming near any of my songs. Modo bass sounds like a bass.
I thought in the video these two guys made and posted, bass fingers sounded very much like the actual bass being sampled. You can hear the line played on the bass and then on the keyboard and it’s pretty close.
Old 23rd June 2019
  #97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Funk View Post
I thought in the video these two guys made and posted, bass fingers sounded very much like the actual bass being sampled. You can hear the line played on the bass and then on the keyboard and it’s pretty close.
Which videos are you referring to?
Old 23rd June 2019
  #98
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Innervisions View Post
Bass Fingers does not have the slap samples.
Bass Slapper does not have the fingered samples.

They do not share anything except for some internal technology.

Here's your difference in a nutshell.
The main thing I was disappointed about in Slapper was that it doesn’t sound as slap and poppy as I was expecting. The harder velocity hits on Fingers sounds similar. May be you could make a video on how to get the best out of slapper as I’m thinking I was missing something.

I think using these two VI’s together so some parts are fingered and others slapped (sounds a bit wrong) could be really cool but I definitely need a lesson on how to get the best out of Slapper.

For instance, may be you can recreate the Forget Me Nots bass line or Boogie Oogie Oogie? I think these two have a mixture of fingered and slapped but may be not.
Old 23rd June 2019
  #99
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by blayz2002 View Post
Which videos are you referring to?
The one in this thread. Page one I think. It’s a really good video even if you still hate the sound of the software.
Old 23rd June 2019
  #100
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Funk View Post
I thought in the video these two guys made and posted, bass fingers sounded very much like the actual bass being sampled. You can hear the line played on the bass and then on the keyboard and it’s pretty close.
It sounds like a keyboard bass when played by the keyboardist I think.
Old 23rd June 2019
  #101
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic audio View Post
It sounds like a keyboard bass when played by the keyboardist I think.
Fair enough. I’d live to own Modo, but it’s 15 times the price of what I just paid for Bass Fingers. I realize you get a lot of instruments for the money though in Modo of course.
Old 23rd June 2019
  #102
Lives for gear
You can get an extra 10% off (all Waves plugs) using a code found here. https://youtu.be/Yr9gpqjs0JQ

Wish I’d found that before I bought Bass Fingers.
Old 23rd June 2019
  #103
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Funk View Post
The main thing I was disappointed about in Slapper was that it doesn’t sound as slap and poppy as I was expecting. The harder velocity hits on Fingers sounds similar. May be you could make a video on how to get the best out of slapper as I’m thinking I was missing something.

I think using these two VI’s together so some parts are fingered and others slapped (sounds a bit wrong) could be really cool but I definitely need a lesson on how to get the best out of Slapper.

For instance, may be you can recreate the Forget Me Nots bass line or Boogie Oogie Oogie? I think these two have a mixture of fingered and slapped but may be not.

+ 1.

@ Innervisions
The core here is, how the product sounds, what you can get out of it. Not the theory of samples.
When the reality is, that both the Slapp Bass and the Finger Bass do the slapping as well,
plus the Finger Bass does in addition to that plenty of other things, the practical implication is, that the Waves Finger Bass is a upgraded versiln of the Waves Slapp Bass.
Therefore Waves, to show a slight amount of fairnes, should offer to the Slapp Bass owner Finger Bass in upgrade price.
Old 23rd June 2019
  #104
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_O View Post
+ 1.

@ Innervisions
The core here is, how the product sounds, what you can get out of it. Not the theory of samples.
When the reality is, that both the Slapp Bass and the Finger Bass do the slapping as well,
plus the Finger Bass does in addition to that plenty of other things, the practical implication is, that the Waves Finger Bass is a upgraded versiln of the Waves Slapp Bass.
Therefore Waves, to show a slight amount of fairnes, should offer to the Slapp Bass owner Finger Bass in upgrade price.
No, you cannot slap with Bass Fingers.

I'm really not sure what you're talking about here.

Not only that it doesn't have any slap samples, it also has a totally different logic module, since a 'Slap' is all about the slap-pull-left hand mute dynamic which does not exist in finger style playing.

Now, I'm just a musician and a developer, and I don't even work for Waves anymore, so I definitely can't tell you if buying this new plugin for $25 is worth it for you or not.

But - I would definitely suggest that you try the demo, because these two instruments are not similar in any way, and probably wouldn't even be used for the same purpose in terms of artistic expression.
Old 23rd June 2019
  #105
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_O View Post
+ 1.

@ Innervisions
The core here is, how the product sounds, what you can get out of it. Not the theory of samples.
When the reality is, that both the Slapp Bass and the Finger Bass do the slapping as well,
plus the Finger Bass does in addition to that plenty of other things, the practical implication is, that the Waves Finger Bass is a upgraded versiln of the Waves Slapp Bass.
Therefore Waves, to show a slight amount of fairnes, should offer to the Slapp Bass owner Finger Bass in upgrade price.
The guy who created it already said Fingers does not have slap samples.
Old 23rd June 2019
  #106
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Funk View Post
The main thing I was disappointed about in Slapper was that it doesn’t sound as slap and poppy as I was expecting. The harder velocity hits on Fingers sounds similar. May be you could make a video on how to get the best out of slapper as I’m thinking I was missing something.

I think using these two VI’s together so some parts are fingered and others slapped (sounds a bit wrong) could be really cool but I definitely need a lesson on how to get the best out of Slapper.

For instance, may be you can recreate the Forget Me Nots bass line or Boogie Oogie Oogie? I think these two have a mixture of fingered and slapped but may be not.
I definitely appreciate the challenge.

What I would start with is look at the tutorial I made with Or Lubianiker about Bass Slapper when it came out:


Basically, the big deal about Slapper, other than the samples, is that there's some automatic logic there that creates the interaction between the right hand and left hand articulations (as well as all the left hand positioning changes)

For example, if you just play a bass line and alternate with the "Reactive Mute" note on the Bb below the lowest playable B, you can get automatic articulations and 'funkness' that is harder to achieve in other instruments without extensive keyswitching and mapping.

I would even start with running an arpeggiator through slapper, and just randomly holding that Bb once in a while.

So even though I guess it's possible to find a fingered articulation that might sounds 'attacky' and a little 'slappy', the real 'meat' of the slap technique is about the entire range of articulations, and the interplay with the 'thump, 'pop' and left hand which we worked very hard to model.
Old 23rd June 2019
  #107
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Innervisions View Post
I definitely appreciate the challenge.

What I would start with is look at the tutorial I made with Or Lubianiker about Bass Slapper when it came out:


Basically, the big deal about Slapper, other than the samples, is that there's some automatic logic there that creates the interaction between the right hand and left hand articulations (as well as all the left hand positioning changes)

For example, if you just play a bass line and alternate with the "Reactive Mute" note on the Bb below the lowest playable B, you can get automatic articulations and 'funkness' that is harder to achieve in other instruments without extensive keyswitching and mapping.

I would even start with running an arpeggiator through slapper, and just randomly holding that Bb once in a while.

So even though I guess it's possible to find a fingered articulation that might sounds 'attacky' and a little 'slappy', the real 'meat' of the slap technique is about the entire range of articulations, and the interplay with the 'thump, 'pop' and left hand which we worked very hard to model.
I’ll watch that video and thanks for the info. Appreciate it.
Old 23rd June 2019
  #108
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Funk View Post
You can get an extra 10% off (all Waves plugs)...
I don't think that works in conjunction with the 'HALF' 50% off discount coupon that Waves is currently running though. I think you can only choose one coupon or the other, and the 50% off deal is definitely the better one right now. I think 'HALF' is due to expire in a couple of days (but I could be wrong).

If you're new to Waves plugins - you always get a 10% discount coupon / referral link to share after buying one of their plugins. (Gratuitous plug, here is my 10%-off Waves discount referral link.) It's intended for sharing with friends, but you can use your own link to buy at a 10% discount too. If you didn't save your link, you can look it up again at https://www.waves.com/refer.

Also, Waves constantly have sales & every individual Waves plugin eventually goes on sale for $29, though more popular plugins (eg SSL plugins) might only get discounted that low once or twice a year. Bass Fingers at $24.50 with the HALF coupon is even better than that, so this is probably the best price it's going to be for a while.
Old 23rd June 2019
  #109
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruleofthump View Post
It's funny, I just recalled that when we decided to use the same UI concept for it, we were afraid of people thinking it's just a re-skin...
I didn't think it was a re-skin, but I admit I assumed it was 'just' a new sample library (though I realize the sampling is a ton of work!) with some improvements to the playback engine. It makes sense that a rewrite of logic is required for a different playing style though, and as someone who owns both it's helpful that they have a similar UI.

I'm wondering (maybe a question for Eyal), is that kind of playback logic done through a scripting language like Lua, or deeper down in C++? Is this a project where you had to be on site in the Waves offices, or were you able to work remotely? (Curious freelance programmers want to know how plugins are made!)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruleofthump View Post
Regarding the pricing - I think offering a special deal to slapper users is a great idea...
I thought that too as someone who bought Bass Slapper just 3 months ago... but I'm over that brief pricing disappointment already. $25 is a very fair price & I'm happy! Though if someone at Waves wants to add a free second licence for Bass Fingers to my account, I won't complain!
Old 23rd June 2019
  #110
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SyneRyder View Post
I'm wondering (maybe a question for Eyal), is that kind of playback logic done through a scripting language like Lua, or deeper down in C++? Is this a project where you had to be on site in the Waves offices, or were you able to work remotely? (Curious freelance programmers want to know how plugins are made!)
Thanks for asking!

I do it all in C++.
I really feel more comfortable in it, and usually write my own high level interface that fits the purpose I'm working on, but that still keeps me with all the low level control so I can make sure I avoid things that will hurt performance.

Mostly, plugins have some elements that are edited via XML's, so things like the exact positions of images on the screen are done via a text format that someone like a graphic designer can edit.

Same goes for audio fine tune: You really don't want to recompile your code to change the cutoff position of some internal filter or you'll go crazy.

But everything that's an 'algorithm' or a 'behavior' I prefer to do in C++.
I know some people like to defer their high level work to a language like Python or Lua though, I just never did it personally.

As for my work: I worked for Waves for some time from home as a part time freelancer (at that time I was also working on plugins for another great company called Polyverse) and at some point switched to working full time at the office.

Currently I work from home which I'd really prefer since I have a nice studio here and it's much more inspiring to be able to crank up my studio monitors while coding!
Old 23rd June 2019
  #111
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by SyneRyder View Post
I don't think that works in conjunction with the 'HALF' 50% off discount coupon that Waves is currently running though. I think you can only choose one coupon or the other, and the 50% off deal is definitely the better one right now. I think 'HALF' is due to expire in a couple of days (but I could be wrong).

If you're new to Waves plugins - you always get a 10% discount coupon / referral link to share after buying one of their plugins. (Gratuitous plug, here is my 10%-off Waves discount referral link.) It's intended for sharing with friends, but you can use your own link to buy at a 10% discount too. If you didn't save your link, you can look it up again at https://www.waves.com/refer.

Also, Waves constantly have sales & every individual Waves plugin eventually goes on sale for $29, though more popular plugins (eg SSL plugins) might only get discounted that low once or twice a year. Bass Fingers at $24.50 with the HALF coupon is even better than that, so this is probably the best price it's going to be for a while.
The guy was probably wrong, but he said add his code and you get 60% off.
Old 23rd June 2019
  #112
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Innervisions View Post
No, you cannot slap with Bass Fingers.

I'm really not sure what you're talking about here.

Not only that it doesn't have any slap samples, it also has a totally different logic module, since a 'Slap' is all about the slap-pull-left hand mute dynamic which does not exist in finger style playing.

Now, I'm just a musician and a developer, and I don't even work for Waves anymore, so I definitely can't tell you if buying this new plugin for $25 is worth it for you or not.

But - I would definitely suggest that you try the demo, because these two instruments are not similar in any way, and probably wouldn't even be used for the same purpose in terms of artistic expression.
Please, it's not worth it. He does that with other developers as well.
Old 23rd June 2019
  #113
You can not go wrong with that 25USD price tag. Think that as if it's just sample extension pack for $25. I have the bass slapper, it sounds great - but more importantly- it's fun to play.
Old 23rd June 2019
  #114
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by folkfreak View Post
Please, it's not worth it. He does that with other developers as well.
I don’t understand this post, what’s not worth it and who does what with other developers?
Old 23rd June 2019
  #115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_O View Post
+ 1.

@ Innervisions
The core here is, how the product sounds, what you can get out of it. Not the theory of samples.
When the reality is, that both the Slapp Bass and the Finger Bass do the slapping as well,
plus the Finger Bass does in addition to that plenty of other things, the practical implication is, that the Waves Finger Bass is a upgraded versiln of the Waves Slapp Bass.
Therefore Waves, to show a slight amount of fairnes, should offer to the Slapp Bass owner Finger Bass in upgrade price.
The plugin has an introductory price of $29 and you’re still angling for a discount?

Plus these are two different plugins.

Last edited by blayz2002; 23rd June 2019 at 11:51 PM.. Reason: Wrong currency
Old 24th June 2019
  #116
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Funk View Post
I don’t understand this post, what’s not worth it and who does what with other developers?
It's not worth debating with Harry_O. He did the same rants on other threads as well, (Platinum Samples, UVI)
Old 24th June 2019
  #117
Lives for gear
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by folkfreak View Post
It's not worth debating with Harry_O. He did the same rants on other threads as well, (Platinum Samples, UVI)
Ah, gotcha!
Old 24th June 2019
  #118
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by folkfreak View Post
It's not worth debating with Harry_O. He did the same rants on other threads as well, (Platinum Samples, UVI)
That's your narrow perspective.
Blaming of "ranting" is just trolling. The idea of Forums is conform developers,
but take stand for the end-users, those, who pay the bills.
With 10+ years in GS Forum, huge amount of discussion in different areas (e. g.
Correlation vs. Phase?),
your folk-freaking blunt comments just reveals your non-historic, shortsight mindset.
Old 24th June 2019
  #119
Gear Addict
 
man in the house's Avatar
 

Yeah, Harry 0 is historic! Show some ****in respect!
Old 24th June 2019
  #120
Lives for gear
 

Yeah, for those who deserve it.
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