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-   -   iZotope Introduces Neutron 3 (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/product-alerts-older-than-2-months/1267776-izotope-introduces-neutron-3-a.html)

mchillak 9th June 2019 10:24 PM

Izotope = worst upgrade policy. Worst customer loyalty.

I bought MPB 2 and they released MPS a few months later. I emailed them to ask about upgrading and there offer was horrendous. My upgrade offer right now is more than I pad for the entire bundle originally. I won’t be giving them another cent no matter how good their plugs get. This is a buyer’s market. We got loads to choose from.

PeeWeeGee 9th June 2019 11:13 PM

Maybe I've just never RTFM to figure it out, but...

Does the relay plug auto-name each instance based on track names or do you have to do that manually? Seems that is a heavy lift for an "automated" process. With 40-60 tracks, that would be quite time consuming given the fact you might not even care for the results.

PWG

nwmusicman 10th June 2019 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleepCircle (Post 14024249)
this isn't really AI
this is a very simple 'neural network' which is ultimately, at this level, a different way of processing statistics.

That sounds exactly like the description for the vast majority of AI in use today. How’s that not really AI?

morelia 10th June 2019 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirthought (Post 14028064)
I see it as really trying to set your gain staging levels on raw tracks so it's sort of in the zone of a mix, but leaving you plenty of headroom so once you make decisions on EQ, dynamics, etc., you don't have to readjust everything quite as much.

Think about how many bad EQ decisions are made when the initial mix levels are out of whack, or when you start mixing your drums before balancing with the rest of the mix.

It's a really different tool, but it could be useful for starting things off on a better footing.

Sounds more like it the more I see. I did read something saying Relays can go at the end of the chain but that hasn't worked here. Plus never sure where to put the Neutron Mothership.

Think it should go on master and Relays at start of chain.

With that in mind I can't see me using it at all. I record and write everything I do so I really mix to a degree as I go. Going back and muting all effects would seem a backwards step.

superscan 10th June 2019 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeeWeeGee (Post 14029543)
Maybe I've just never RTFM to figure it out, but...

Does the relay plug auto-name each instance based on track names or do you have to do that manually? Seems that is a heavy lift for an "automated" process. With 40-60 tracks, that would be quite time consuming given the fact you might not even care for the results.

PWG

Yes, it takes the track name, but you can edit it if you want as well.

doughnuts 10th June 2019 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superscan (Post 14029774)
Yes, it takes the track name, but you can edit it if you want as well.

Hi, it is meant to, however testing in Studio One i can confirm it does not work. Each track is titled 'Relay 10, Relay 11, Relay 12', none of the Relays had picked up the track name. This may be DAW dependent.
Also the GUI is very sluggish, it took between 5-10 seconds for the GUI to appear when clicking to open an instance of Neutron.
I use a Presonus Faderport 16 and the unresponsiveness affects the Faderport, the scribble strip fails to display track information and it stops communicating with the DAW for a minute or 2.
I can't recommend Neutron in this state. YMMV

PeeWeeGee 10th June 2019 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doughnuts (Post 14029935)
Hi, it is meant to, however testing in Studio One i can confirm it does not work. Each track is titled 'Relay 10, Relay 11, Relay 12', none of the Relays had picked up the track name. This may be DAW dependent.
Also the GUI is very sluggish, it took between 5-10 seconds for the GUI to appear when clicking to open an instance of Neutron.
I use a Presonus Faderport 16 and the unresponsiveness affects the Faderport, the scribble strip fails to display track information and it stops communicating with the DAW for a minute or 2.
I can't recommend Neutron in this state. YMMV

Using Studio One (on Win10) here, as well. Must be a bug. I can confirm there is a pretty serious lag on opening instances of Neutron since v2. Will try in SONAR and Cubase later to test.

Thanks for the confirmation! kfhkh

jojofun 10th June 2019 05:35 PM

It's interesting how no one is really addressing the elephant in the room: Sculptor vs Gullfoss.

Neutron's assistant is great and all for quick track balance and channel effects suggestions.
But really Neutron still has a thorn in its side, and that is CPU usage.
Compare its eq to Fabfilter's Pro-Q all day, but is using it, in the proposed way as CPU efficient as Fabfilter's tools

That has been addressed already, and we know that all that eye candy cool aesthetic still come at a huge CPU cost (something Fabfilter had conquered long ago).

But people, people... let's talk about some Sculptor vs Gullfoss, please.

boing

SleepCircle 10th June 2019 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nwmusicman (Post 14029672)
That sounds exactly like the description for the vast majority of AI in use today. How’s that not really AI?

well, marketers tend to drastically overstate everything.

Deleted f6fc2a4 10th June 2019 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleepCircle (Post 14024249)
this isn't really AI
this is a very simple 'neural network' which is ultimately, at this level, a different way of processing statistics.

First, I am curious, how do you know how simple are the neural nets used in the
product?

Second, neural networks (simple and complex) have been a part of "real" AI for decades.

Deleted f6fc2a4 10th June 2019 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jojofun (Post 14030787)
It's interesting how no one is really addressing the elephant in the room: Sculptor vs Gullfoss.



But people, people... let's talk about some Sculptor vs Gullfoss, please.

boing

OK, in my tests, Gullfoss has an edge when it comes to overall clarity
of a complex mix.

Sculptor has the advantage that complex eq, compression, exciter, gate, and transient shaping are in N3 and thus very easy to add to the processing.

jojofun 10th June 2019 07:15 PM

Much thanks, consync, for the feedback.

So you think that Gullfoss, if one has Sculptor, is mainly for the overall mix [mixbus], and Sculptor be use liberally among
tracks and busses?

Also, how well is Neutron doing with multiple instances now? Good for individual tracks or mainly busses?

Deleted f6fc2a4 10th June 2019 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jojofun (Post 14030996)
Much thanks, consync, for the feedback.

So you think that Gullfoss, if one has Sculptor, is mainly for the overall mix [mixbus], and Sculptor be use liberally among
tracks and busses?

Also, how well is Neutron doing with multiple instances now? Good for individual tracks or mainly busses?

From my (modestly scoped) tests, it would be great to have both tools
and use them in tracks/mix bus alone or in combination using a
"whatever works" attitude. It is very hard to predict their behavior
on one hand, and very fast to test them out, on the other.

As far as multiple instances, I am not the best case study, since
I never had problems running many instances of N2 (and now N3).

Hope this helps.

jojofun 10th June 2019 09:48 PM

Thanks, man.
I'll have to do some testing myself.
I just felt some kind of way because I've seen a video of a user having link 3 or 4 instances and their cpu jump up to like 50%.
Maybe it was just his machine.

morelia 10th June 2019 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wesleyamltd (Post 14026680)
I sent Izotope an email and expressed my concerns in regards to their pricing for Neutron 3 Adv and they responded with a discount. It's worth reaching out, because it may lead to a discount.;)

I tried but they told me no chance. Not sure what you said but whatever I did it was a firm, no we can't do any further discount.

SleepCircle 11th June 2019 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by consnyc (Post 14030920)
First, I am curious, how do you know how simple are the neural nets used in the
product?

Second, neural networks (simple and complex) have been a part of "real" AI for decades.

the neural networks, if there are any, must be relatively simple, because complex ones take hours to run on massively parallel processing units like modern GPUs.

and while you are technically right that neural networks have been part of real AI for decades—if you re-read what i said, you may note i said "neural networks at this level," not ALL NEURAL NETWORKS—the original reason i mentioned this at all was not to disparage the program, but because the post DIRECTLY PRIOR to mine was saying that at some point in the future, "AI" would probably "generate songs that you love, on the fly," and using Neutron 3 as an example of things heading in that direction.

Deleted f6fc2a4 11th June 2019 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleepCircle (Post 14031901)
the neural networks, if there are any, must be relatively simple, because complex ones take hours to run on massively parallel processing units like modern GPUs.

I think you are confusing training time which may take a very long time
with running time which is very fast (linear to the time or connections).
Once the neural net is trained, running it is very fast even for the most
complex NNs and in minimal hardware.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleepCircle (Post 14031901)
and while you are technically right that neural networks have been part of real AI for decades—if you re-read what i said, you may note i said "neural networks at this level," not ALL NEURAL NETWORKS—the original reason i mentioned this at all was not to disparage the program, but because the post DIRECTLY PRIOR to mine was saying that at some point in the future, "AI" would probably "generate songs that you love, on the fly," and using Neutron 3 as an example of things heading in that direction.

OK, this part is speculative. Who knows what these models will look
like and how powerful the hardware will be at that point in time.
The complexity of these models may be easily overcome by advances
in hardware especially for just raining a trained network, which as I said
is very fast.

SleepCircle 11th June 2019 05:29 AM

i am not confusing training time with running time

EDIT: i know running time is faster but there are still some procedures which take a really long time to run, regardless.

none of this really matters. i somehow doubt there will ever be an AI capable of creating 'music you love, on the fly, as you listen to it,' but it's not a hill i want to die on--i was just trying to soothe the worries of a seemingly concerned musician.

wesleyamltd 11th June 2019 01:10 PM

Maybe it’s not what you said but who you said it? I have nearly all the plugins from their production suite and quite a few more, which I’ve paid full price for. Idk.

Volt9 11th June 2019 03:21 PM

When (usually) are the upgrades on discount?

This upgrades prices are indeed way to high. :(

GroovnD313 11th June 2019 08:49 PM

Great update, much improved sound and ux!

ILME 11th June 2019 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volt9 (Post 14032685)
When (usually) are the upgrades on discount?

This upgrades prices are indeed way to high. :(

Hi, search for better prices in websites that have deals like PluginBoutique or AudioDeluxe and many more of this kind, or if you're a loyal customer write them an email to ask for a discount

Volt9 12th June 2019 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILME (Post 14033585)
Hi, search for better prices in websites that have deals like PluginBoutique or AudioDeluxe and many more of this kind, or if you're a loyal customer write them an email to ask for a discount

Thanks!

As fas as I can see audiodeluxe is the best deal at the moment 134,- dollar.

What is the discount izotope is ofering when contacting them?
Hmm, loyal? I got neuton advanced from the start and ozone 7 advanced and updated when N2 and O8 came out. Would that be loyal customer?

Ooww and I have stutter and trash and there latest vocal processing plug version 3 also updated from version2. And alloy. I guess I am a loyal customer. ������

Edit: email send to Izotope.

MatsNo 12th June 2019 10:06 AM

I wish they would just give us a resizable GUI in Neutron 2, I'm not paying 150,- for a bigger GUI.

Volt9 13th June 2019 03:38 PM

Izotope respond to my message asking for a discount.

They said I was lucky they had a promotion going: 149,- dollar. :facepalm::heh::lol:

thedommer 13th June 2019 03:46 PM

I feel like some of these new features would be better streamlined into a DAW. These plugins are getting so robust that they are starting to feel like a DAW within a DAW. Great ideas here though and it does feel like the "future of mixing". So many interesting ideas coming out these days.

soulata 13th June 2019 03:48 PM

You're just not loyal enough :)

Volt9 13th June 2019 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soulata (Post 14037114)
You're just not loyal enough :)

I guess so :amaze:

jollyr 13th June 2019 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgrotto (Post 14024292)
I wanna chime in to address this, because I think it's a fair point based on the marketing that izotope does, but is actually erroneous (through no fault of the consumer, since again, izotope markets Neutron as a 'mix assistant').

While there is certainly a mix assistant feature within the plugin, that's easily the least useful and least impressive part. I've been working with N3 for many months now and while I didn't touch the mix assistant save for a few requested beta testing tasks, I absolutely fell in love the it as a one-stop-shop channel strip. The EQ's usability rivals Fab Filter (which I had considered far and away the best UI before beginning testing on N3), and I swear, it even sounds better than Fab Filter (cue the plugin doctor people to prove me wrong, but hey, i get better results faster...maybe it's an interface thing, but my ears like where i end up), the compressor sounds great, the transient processing sounds great, and the addition of the distortion module is a nice touch.

But -- and this is gonna sound funny, but bear with me -- the real show-stopper in N3 is the gate. Holy cow, it's freaking awesome. Full, multi band functionality, every parameter represented per-band (attack, hold, release, ratio, and even hysterisis, PER BAND!!!), and any band can be individually keyed from its own range, the full incoming range, any other band's range, or an external key signal. Plus, you can filter that sidechain. It's completely insane what you can do with this thing to shape drums and percussion, clean up uniquely difficult spill (like live stage leakage, or particularly egregious cymbal bleed). Combined with the excellent routing flexibility and sound quality throughout N3, and this is one helluva channel strip.

You may never use the 'assisted mix' features, but you'd be selling the plug way, way short by not primarily considering it as a powerhouse all-in-one channel strip.

I’ve been using the multi band gate in Cubase for years, and having multiple bands really makes all the difference. Tools like pa triad or kilohearts multi pass can do the same thing I guess.

Deleted f6fc2a4 13th June 2019 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volt9 (Post 14037099)
Izotope respond to my message asking for a discount.

They said I was lucky they had a promotion going: 149,- dollar. :facepalm::heh::lol:

maybe you can tell them that they are not lucky though because they will not get
your dollars (they have to settle for the hypothetical dollars
their "discounts" are generating...)