iZotope Introduces Neutron 3 - Page 10 - Gearslutz
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iZotope Introduces Neutron 3
Old 14th October 2020 | Show parent
  #271
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Spur's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by PettyCash ➡️
I guess that depends on what you're using it for. For bus work, I heavily prefer Gullfoss over Sculptor, but I wouldn't really reach for Gullfoss for use on individual instruments. Sculptor just makes more sense there.
Can you say why?

My demo for Gullfoss expired just around the time I realized Sculptor might achieve similar results.

There seems to be a common opinion that Gullfoss is better for master/bus and Sculptor is better for individual tracks.

But ... why?

If these were standard EQs or compressors, I'd be asking why some EQs/Comps might generally work better on the master and another EQ/Comp might work better on individual channels.

I know that Sculptor has a bunch of instrument / section presets. But without those Gullfoss wouldn't necessarily be limited to the bus/master. And putting Sculptor in Neutron implies that it's for tracks, but what if the next version of Ozone comes with a Sculptor section; what would make it "right" for busses or entire mixes?

Plus Sculptor already has presets for bus and master too.

If it's simply subjective or difficult to put into words, then okay ... but I'm curious about the underlying reasons why people are preferring one tool for one purpose and the other tool (generally) for a different purpose.

Again my Gullfoss demo expired so I cannot do any more A/B comparisons myself at the moment.
Old 16th October 2020 | Show parent
  #272
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PettyCash's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spur ➡️
There seems to be a common opinion that Gullfoss is better for master/bus and Sculptor is better for individual tracks.

But ... why?
Sculptor has selectable options for individual elements like Bass, Percussion, Keys, etc. So it can get very specific with the way that it reacts to the audio you feed it; similar to Smart:EQ 2, except it keeps on working in real time.

It does offer options for bus processing, but in practice, it isn't as sophisticated in design as Gullfoss is for that purpose. IMO, the most important difference is in the results that can be achieved with each, but any kind of desired result can vary from person to person... which is why it's so important to try them both out at the same time and make the comparison for yourself.
Old 16th October 2020 | Show parent
  #273
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spur ➡️
Again my Gullfoss demo expired so I cannot do any more A/B comparisons myself at the moment.
Get in touch with Soundtheory support and we'll happily extend your trial. I don't think there is any reason to prefer Sculptor on individual tracks. Just make sure you use Gullfoss' frequency range limiters to indicate the relevant bandwidth of the instrument.

Andreas
Old 16th October 2020 | Show parent
  #274
plx
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by atell ➡️
Get in touch with Soundtheory support and we'll happily extend your trial. I don't think there is any reason to prefer Sculptor on individual tracks. Just make sure you use Gullfoss' frequency range limiters to indicate the relevant bandwidth of the instrument.

Andreas
there really isn't and they don't work so similarly.

Neutron is great, but there's no functionality there that replaces gullfoss.

on a similar note, Ozone's Spectral Shaper work similarly to Gullfoss "Tame" parameter - but only that one.
Old 17th October 2020 | Show parent
  #275
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PettyCash's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
And vice versa. I wouldn't reach for Gullfoss for the same reasons I would reach for Neutron, and I wouldn't reach for Neutron for the same reasons I would reach for Gullfoss. That is how a person could prefer one over the other depending on what they're trying to achieve for a specific task.

As great as Gullfoss is, I'm not going to mix an entire song using it. But I could do exactly that using Neutron, and throw Gullfoss on the stereo bus to polish the result.
Old 23rd October 2020 | Show parent
  #276
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Neutron is quite a nifty channel strip, altho I never used the AI features. My favourite module is the transient shaper. That thing is wonderful.
I was wondering what you guys thought of the EQ module. I usually have Q3 before to do all the sculpting, dynamic eq ing. Is Neutron 3's eq module as good as? Can I use it with confidence? I understand it doesn't do linear phase.
Old 23rd October 2020 | Show parent
  #277
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E-Irizarry's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by trtzbass ➡️
Neutron is quite a nifty channel strip, altho I never used the AI features. My favourite module is the transient shaper. That thing is wonderful.
I was wondering what you guys thought of the EQ module. I usually have Q3 before to do all the sculpting, dynamic eq ing. Is Neutron 3's eq module as good as? Can I use it with confidence? I understand it doesn't do linear phase.
I hate to be the bad bearer of news here, but the dbx 286s is actually slightly better than the Neutron 2/3 Advanced Noise Gate module. N2 Adv's noise Gate module is great but the hardware processor of dbx 286s nails it coldly!!
I just add the N2 Adv Gate for Post-processing after the 286s of course for a superbly-tight Auto-Black space in the track without overgating all three frequency bands.

For EQing, I stick with Tokyo Dawn Records Nova, TBProAudio's DSEQ, Izotopes Ozone 8/9 Dynamics (very very very underestimated module/plugin) with 8/9 Vintage Tape (hit the Bias negatively hard!!!) Soundtheory's Gullfoss, and DDMF IIEPro EQ.
Old 23rd October 2020 | Show parent
  #278
Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Irizarry ➡️
I hate to be the bad bearer of news here, but the dbx 286s is actually slightly better than the Neutron 2/3 Advanced Noise Gate module. N2 Adv's noise Gate module is great but the hardware processor of dbx 286s nails it coldly!!
I just add the N2 Adv Gate for Post-processing after the 286s of course for a superbly-tight Auto-Black space in the track without overgating all three frequency bands.

For EQing, I stick with Tokyo Dawn Records Nova, TBProAudio's DSEQ, Izotopes Ozone 8/9 Dynamics (very very very underestimated module/plugin) with 8/9 Vintage Tape (hit the Bias negatively hard!!!) Soundtheory's Gullfoss, and DDMF IIEPro EQ.
Aren't you totally missing the point of the question that was asked?
Telling someone that a hardware unit is better than a software solution is not really helpful to someone who might be working in the box. Furthermore, he wanted to know if Neutron 3 EQ is comparable with Pro Q3.
Old 23rd October 2020 | Show parent
  #279
plx
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by trtzbass ➡️
Neutron is quite a nifty channel strip, altho I never used the AI features. My favourite module is the transient shaper. That thing is wonderful.
I was wondering what you guys thought of the EQ module. I usually have Q3 before to do all the sculpting, dynamic eq ing. Is Neutron 3's eq module as good as? Can I use it with confidence? I understand it doesn't do linear phase.
yes, it's a great EQ.

I had both bundles for a while, but eventually sold the MPS3.
But not because of quality, simply because of workflow, which i seem to prefer with fabfilter.
Also I never used AI.
I practically only used the Neutron's transient shaper and Ozone's imager, so it felt redundant having the whole MPS3 for that.

But there's absolutely nothing wrong with it - it's a great EQ, and has very flexible sidechaining for the dynamic section, pretty unique.

There's absolutely nothing you should worry about while using Neutron's EQ.

Re: linear phase
I almost never use it. I can't remember last time i did. I personally prefer a little phase distortion than preringing that linear-phase introduces. Preringing absolutely kills me. in 95% of cases i switch back to normal phase.
I wouldn't fuss about it.
Besides, your daw probably has a linearphase EQ for those rare occasion you might want it
Old 29th October 2020 | Show parent
  #280
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E-Irizarry's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stikkers ➡️
Aren't you totally missing the point of the question that was asked?
Telling someone that a hardware unit is better than a software solution is not really helpful to someone who might be working in the box. Furthermore, he wanted to know if Neutron 3 EQ is comparable with Pro Q3.
My belated apologies. I became overzealous to a solution that wholeheartedly now I found works for me it's it's out of the box then in the box for me.
Old 4th December 2020
  #281
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Hi, does anyone know if Izotope 3 works with Cubse 8.5?
Old 4th December 2020
  #282
Here for the gear
 
Hi, my son want to get Izotope 3 but he has Cubase 8.5 and I was wondering if anyone knows if it will work with this? (it says Cubase 10 on website)
Old 4th December 2020 | Show parent
  #283
plx
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple1 ➡️
Hi, my son want to get Izotope 3 but he has Cubase 8.5 and I was wondering if anyone knows if it will work with this? (it says Cubase 10 on website)
Why don't you try it with a trial version? it's by far the most sure-fire way of checking compatibility.
Old 4th December 2020 | Show parent
  #284
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple1 ➡️
Hi, my son want to get Izotope 3 but he has Cubase 8.5 and I was wondering if anyone knows if it will work with this? (it says Cubase 10 on website)
Izotope only put that to state what versions they have personally tried it on and will guarantee it will work on and will provide support for a year from product's initial release if it isn't working as it should. This is just so they don't get bogged down in customer service etc.

As @ plx suggested - the best way is to use the free demo but I don't see why it wouldn't work on Cubase 8.5.
Old 16th January 2021 | Show parent
  #285
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Does anyone use the saturator in neutron? Always found it a little unpleasant when compared with decent saturators. Seemed like they hadn't given it much thought.
Also is there any oversampling? Really that should be an option one can turn on and off...unless there is something I am missing

I like the Isotope products, but as others have mentioned, I am on the verge of not using them all the tie because the FF stuff has better workflow with more detail and is way, way lower on CPU, without sacrificing in quality - in fact the quality is better in a number of areas.

I hope they focus less on AI stuff and more on practical things that sound good. As well as making the products more usable.
Old 16th January 2021 | Show parent
  #286
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Volt9's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Carlyon ➡️
Does anyone use the saturator in neutron? Always found it a little unpleasant when compared with decent saturators. Seemed like they hadn't given it much thought.
Also is there any oversampling? Really that should be an option one can turn on and off...unless there is something I am missing

I like the Isotope products, but as others have mentioned, I am on the verge of not using them all the tie because the FF stuff has better workflow with more detail and is way, way lower on CPU, without sacrificing in quality - in fact the quality is better in a number of areas.

I hope they focus less on AI stuff and more on practical things that sound good. As well as making the products more usable.
Try the Ozone 9 exiter! It is fantastic on drums and every thing els btw. It has a oversampling switch and multiband options.
Old 16th January 2021 | Show parent
  #287
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Carlyon ➡️
Does anyone use the saturator in neutron? Always found it a little unpleasant when compared with decent saturators. Seemed like they hadn't given it much thought.
Also is there any oversampling? Really that should be an option one can turn on and off...unless there is something I am missing

I like the Isotope products, but as others have mentioned, I am on the verge of not using them all the tie because the FF stuff has better workflow with more detail and is way, way lower on CPU, without sacrificing in quality - in fact the quality is better in a number of areas.

I hope they focus less on AI stuff and more on practical things that sound good. As well as making the products more usable.
There's no oversampling in Neutron.
Old 16th January 2021 | Show parent
  #288
Gear Nut
 
egloss's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stikkers ➡️
There's no oversampling in Neutron.
not true.
I asked them directly about this a while ago and this is part of their answer

Our zero-latency algorithm is very different to FabFilters, this will not compromise anything at all within the EQ and Compressor modules.

While oversampling is involved, I’m not allowed to go into great detail of the DSP under the hood!


It is hard to me to understand since oversampling induce latency and they have no latency....dsp voodoo
Old 17th January 2021 | Show parent
  #289
Quote:
Originally Posted by egloss ➡️
not true.
I asked them directly about this a while ago and this is part of their answer

Our zero-latency algorithm is very different to FabFilters, this will not compromise anything at all within the EQ and Compressor modules.

While oversampling is involved, I’m not allowed to go into great detail of the DSP under the hood!


It is hard to me to understand since oversampling induce latency and they have no latency....dsp voodoo
Please don't take their reply serious. Neutron has no oversampling. Unless it's an implementation that does absolutely nothing to the amount of aliasing.

Just checked plugin doctor to verify this.
Neutron 3 exciter has exactly the same amount of unwanted aliasing as Ozone 9 exciter without oversampling. When you turn on oversampling on the Ozone 9 exciter plugin the amount of aliasing decreases a lot.

In this test i chose tape, wideband, amount=7 on both plugins.
Attached Thumbnails
iZotope Introduces Neutron 3-n3exciter_tape.jpg   iZotope Introduces Neutron 3-o9exciter_tape_noos.jpg   iZotope Introduces Neutron 3-o9exciter_tape_os.jpg  
Old 17th January 2021 | Show parent
  #290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volt9 ➡️
Try the Ozone 9 exiter! It is fantastic on drums and every thing els btw. It has a oversampling switch and multiband options.
Sound is fantastic, as is the oversampling option.
Downside is CPU load. Approximately 5% per instance on my i7-7700.

iZotope Trash 2 uses only half in multiband mode.
Old 17th January 2021 | Show parent
  #291
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stikkers ➡️
Please don't take their reply serious. Neutron has no oversampling. Unless it's an implementation that does absolutely nothing to the amount of aliasing.

Just checked plugin doctor to verify this.
Neutron 3 exciter has exactly the same amount of unwanted aliasing as Ozone 9 exciter without oversampling. When you turn on oversampling on the Ozone 9 exciter plugin the amount of aliasing decreases a lot.

In this test i chose tape, wideband, amount=7 on both plugins.
It's true the oversampling "might" be adaptive. If you also turn on the Soft Saturation feature, instead of getting a very light CPU footprint it really starts chewing up the cycles and put's it on par with Ozone's EQ.

From my experience you don't get that kind of CPU from a saturation algorithm alone. It's usually indicative of some oversampling feature going on under the hood.
Old 17th January 2021 | Show parent
  #292
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blackcom's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by PettyCash ➡️
And vice versa. I wouldn't reach for Gullfoss for the same reasons I would reach for Neutron, and I wouldn't reach for Neutron for the same reasons I would reach for Gullfoss. That is how a person could prefer one over the other depending on what they're trying to achieve for a specific task.

As great as Gullfoss is, I'm not going to mix an entire song using it. But I could do exactly that using Neutron, and throw Gullfoss on the stereo bus to polish the result.
I love Sculptor on kick, snare and toms, Soothe on overheads and subgroups, Gullfoss on the 2bus.

Last edited by blackcom; 17th January 2021 at 11:52 PM..
Old 18th January 2021 | Show parent
  #293
Gear Nut
 
egloss's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stikkers ➡️
Please don't take their reply serious. Neutron has no oversampling. Unless it's an implementation that does absolutely nothing to the amount of aliasing.

Just checked plugin doctor to verify this.
Neutron 3 exciter has exactly the same amount of unwanted aliasing as Ozone 9 exciter without oversampling. When you turn on oversampling on the Ozone 9 exciter plugin the amount of aliasing decreases a lot.

In this test i chose tape, wideband, amount=7 on both plugins.
Interesting....
Why would they lie? also does not make sense to me as I am pretty sure they know people can do tests as you did.
Anyway I ll keep using it.i like them. for me to be perfect they just need to use less cpu and the compressor just needs a hold function for proper side chain comp. (said it before here ahaah)
Old 18th January 2021 | Show parent
  #294
plx
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by egloss ➡️
not true.


It is hard to me to understand since oversampling induce latency and they have no latency....dsp voodoo
oversampling doesn't need to induce latency, if the filter is minimal-phase.

Latency is a good indication of oversampling, but lack of it doesn't necessarily imply no oversampling.
Old 18th January 2021 | Show parent
  #295
Quote:
Originally Posted by egloss ➡️
Interesting....
Why would they lie? also does not make sense to me as I am pretty sure they know people can do tests as you did.
Anyway I ll keep using it.i like them. for me to be perfect they just need to use less cpu and the compressor just needs a hold function for proper side chain comp. (said it before here ahaah)
You can clearly see the aliasing/IMD in the screenshots I provided. It's not just a little. I wouldn't use it on anything. Trash 2 has oversampling, as well as Ozone 9 exciter, so to me those are far better alternatives. But I can imagine when you've spent a lof of money on it, you want to use it somehow.
Old 19th January 2021
  #296
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Alexey Lukin's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Your analysis looks sound, Stikkers. Neutron's Exciter does not use oversampling.
Old 27th January 2021 | Show parent
  #297
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by plx ➡️
oversampling doesn't need to induce latency, if the filter is minimal-phase.

Latency is a good indication of oversampling, but lack of it doesn't necessarily imply no oversampling.
That's also true. There's many types of oversampling algorithms. The higher quality ones do cause more latency, bet there are still several good quality algorithms that can get the job done within the time established by the DAW's IO buffer.
Old 28th January 2021 | Show parent
  #298
Gear Nut
 
egloss's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
good to know.thank you.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #299
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filterfreak's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rojhmusic ➡️
Tried this a while ago. In a busy mix of 100+ tracks it cant be used. This is still a CPU Hog plugin. The way they advertise it is to use it in every track with panning and level on the plugin itself. How? Its so CPU intensive and you cant use it on maybe 20 plus tracks how much a 100. Uninstalled the demo.

On a positive note, this is a lot better than Neutron 2. But theres still a lot more to improve.
I am running 256 parallel tracks, each with one instance of Simpler and Neutron 3 (with comp, eq and sculptor engaged) in Ableton live. Cpu is on 45% on my i9 9900X (64 gig RAM)

512 parallel tracks should be no problem, but I ˋm not Hans Zimmer, so
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #300
Gear Nut
 
egloss's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
and what's the buffer size in live?
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