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XBay 128x128 pass through balanced programmable analog patchbay
Old 1st October 2019
  #91
Gear Maniac
 
mrcross's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by freeBase View Post
If there's a way to determine (or guarantee) that all mic and line level signals are indeed transparent (will phase cancel out with an identical phase inverted hardwired setup) across any combination of setups (with well built pro gear of course)... I'll just buy the 128x128 balanced version and be done! Ultimately my goal is to replace a 96 point conventional TT bay with something that has automated recall-ability, but I'm not willing to sacrifice complete transparency (actual identical signal path) for the convenience. I was hoping the Flock Patch would help with this (several units needed of course)... but not being able to run mic signals through it is more of an inconvenience than having to plugin physical patch cables into my old bay.
The way to determine transparency without listening is providing a specification, which I attached a few posts back here specs + blind ABX listen test is integrated in the software with our pre recorded audio. That is as close as it can get to a guarantee without listening. The specs are considered mastering grade.

You might need external input bridging (aka buffering aka unity gain amps) to low input impedance gear. It depends on your unique setup. Providing this internally for all XBay channels is highly inefficient, would cause more problems than it solves.

Using multiple smaller routers to make a bigger one (like with cable bays) is not possible, you end up with a limited bus and you don't have full patch freedom because of blocking issues. You need one monolithic matrix for that, or live with the limitations. Full stereo is an exception to this, one unit for left and one for right works out, provided the software can control it, else it would be inconvenient to do every action twice.
Old 2nd October 2019
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JulenJVM View Post
I'd be really interested in an Xbay 32, which would allow me to use the 8 balanced I/O from my interface with an additional 8 I/O for patching hardware. I think it would be the ideal setup for smaller home studios with fewer pieces of HW. Is that feasible?
If it is all stereo then you can use 2 of the 16's. The software can control multiple units simultaneously. I will give it serious consideration to make a 32 after releasing the 16, it would close the gap between 16 and 64.
Old 2nd October 2019
  #93
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcross View Post
The way to determine transparency without listening is providing a specification, which I attached a few posts back here specs + blind ABX listen test is integrated in the software with our pre recorded audio. That is as close as it can get to a guarantee without listening. The specs are considered mastering grade.

You might need external input bridging (aka buffering aka unity gain amps) to low input impedance gear. It depends on your unique setup. Providing this internally for all XBay channels is highly inefficient, would cause more problems than it solves.

Using multiple smaller routers to make a bigger one (like with cable bays) is not possible, you end up with a limited bus and you don't have full patch freedom because of blocking issues. You need one monolithic matrix for that, or live with the limitations. Full stereo is an exception to this, one unit for left and one for right works out, provided the software can control it, else it would be inconvenient to do every action twice.
This is very helpful, thank you. And I appreciate how upfront and honest you are being about the capabilities and performance of your unit!
Old 2nd October 2019
  #94
Gear Maniac
 
shakermaker3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcross View Post
We recorded live drum sessions in the test studio with condenser and dynamics without any issues. I am testing the first proto type of the XBay 16 as we speak, it is meant for evaluating the system and audio before moving on to something bigger. Would that be something you are interested in?

edit : XBay has no active circuitry freeBase, I think you know enough now

Sneak preview of the board, it comes in an enclosure of course.

Hey mrcross! Can I buy a 16 to test out before moving to the 128?
Old 2nd October 2019
  #95
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Yeah sure, that is what it is meant for. In case you go for something bigger after the test then we will take back the 16 and refund it, provided it is not damaged of course.
Old 2nd October 2019
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freeBase View Post
This is very helpful, thank you. And I appreciate how upfront and honest you are being about the capabilities and performance of your unit!
Being open and honest is a cold hearted business strategy that works best for the long haul. I see no point in hiding things that will explode in my face eventually. Thanks for your appreciation though, much appreciated
Old 2nd October 2019
  #97
JGM
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How much will be the cost of the 16 and or 32 if you decide to make one?
Thanks.
Old 2nd October 2019
  #98
Gear Maniac
 
shakermaker3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcross View Post
Yeah sure, that is what it is meant for. In case you go for something bigger after the test then we will take back the 16 and refund it, provided it is not damaged of course.
Awesome ! PM me whenever they are available or if need be I can put a deposit down. I watched the silent video again and understand how you build chains in the drop down menu in chain mode. It's great for adding full chains without having to click one by one. Cool stuff !
Old 2nd October 2019
  #99
Gear Maniac
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JGM View Post
How much will be the cost of the 16 and or 32 if you decide to make one?
Thanks.
We aim at $300 for the 16. The 32 will be max $600, perhaps somewhat less because not all materials need to be doubled.
Old 2nd October 2019
  #100
Gear Maniac
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker3 View Post
Awesome ! PM me whenever they are available or if need be I can put a deposit down. I watched the silent video again and understand how you build chains in the drop down menu in chain mode. It's great for adding full chains without having to click one by one. Cool stuff !
Thanks, yeah that works really quick, initially it was to setup to define start and end of chain, whereafter you would insert stuff. But at some point I thought it as might well keep expanding.

Next update you can save sub chains as preset's and insert them anywhere in between, or choose them as full initial chain without having to build the same thing every time.
Old 3rd October 2019
  #101
JGM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcross View Post
We aim at $300 for the 16. The 32 will be max $600, perhaps somewhat less because not all materials need to be doubled.
What's the estimate ship date for the 16 and or 32?
Old 3rd October 2019
  #102
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dbjp's Avatar
 

Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcross View Post
Yeah sure, that is what it is meant for. In case you go for something bigger after the test then we will take back the 16 and refund it, provided it is not damaged of course.
Wow. What a gesture.
Old 3rd October 2019
  #103
Gear Maniac
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JGM View Post
What's the estimate ship date for the 16 and or 32?
Can't exactly tell yet, depends on which revision will be the release candidate. The current one surely isn't because the stacked dsub connector is not ok for all multi cables, see image, auch. Every revision takes another few weeks.
Attached Thumbnails
XBay 128x128 pass through balanced programmable analog patchbay-20190929_234949.jpg  
Old 4th October 2019
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcross View Post
Can't exactly tell yet, depends on which revision will be the release candidate. The current one surely isn't because the stacked dsub connector is not ok for all multi cables, see image, auch. Every revision takes another few weeks.

Nice catch, that could be problematic. Surely with only 16 I/O you can stagger those DB-25 connectors?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #105
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ARIEL's Avatar
having both chain and matrix veiw is brilliant ! I wish I had extra cash to bank roll and invest in this for you
Old 4 weeks ago
  #106
Gear Maniac
 
mrcross's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zmix View Post
Nice catch, that could be problematic. Surely with only 16 I/O you can stagger those DB-25 connectors?
It is like this now, less compact than we wished for but still. Boards are on the way. Good chance this will be final since all issues from rev 1 are addressed. It has purpose in the grand scheme of things too as a submatrix for isolated mic levels/pre-amp auditioning, which is better than any solution I saw or thought of, so far. A submatrix connects to the main matrix so that it stays monolithic without blocking issues.

Old 4 weeks ago
  #107
Gear Maniac
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARIEL View Post
having both chain and matrix veiw is brilliant ! I wish I had extra cash to bank roll and invest in this for you
Glad you like it! The challenge is the sync between them. The matrix rules, anything not supported yet in the chain or bugs can be done in the matrix, it always shows the truth. The chain is a higher level abstraction that controls the matrix with macro functions. Actually it is not mine, it is designed by someone that will reveil himself in time. I just followed orders and did the implementation. I have a slight impression how the crowd that worked for Steve Jobs must have felt, this guy is a big pita and never satisfied but you have to love him for the outcome haha. Inverting a connection view to a device view, distilling the tree out of a flat list, finding the start and endpoints and make a mult tree chain view out of it was an extreme challenge. I was burned out for a couple of weeks after it was done but back now.

The concept is shifting gear lately, hardware devs, musicians & producers at the top of the chain are getting involved at a pace that blows my mind. This thread brought everything I / we could have wished for and more. I cannot disclose any names yet, if ever, although I would want to scream it from the rooftops. If you would know which hardware devs are advising me and telling me what to do you would not even consider anything else. So humbly proud but I have to keep it inside to not **** things up prematurely.

The thing is that it can still fail but at least I know if we cannot do it no one can, and I can perfectly live with that possible outcome. Failing for me personally would be to not reach the charts. I want to hear music from my favourite artists knowing that it was produced, mixed and mastered through this automated analog router.

Old 3 weeks ago
  #108
Gear Addict
 

This looks great! I want it!
Can you switch channels with midi? For example I can setup a midi program change message when launching clips in Ableton Live. It would be cool to switch the patchpay channels with corresponding channels in Ableton automatically this way.
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